UKC

At the risk of getting the flamethrower treatment I figured I'd start another thread as I'm making progress on my Aconcagua kit list. I wanted to get some input on a few things that aren't clearly stated in the list recommendations of the various guides - I want to also take into account ambitions to do Mont Blanc, Denali and Himalayan climbs in the future so it's not just for Aconcagua. I also find that guys in the outdoor stores are knowledgeable but most not necessarily in these types of expeditions and whilst they list out a range of features, I do struggle to put them into context and am afraid of getting the wrong stuff and being stuck with bad gear in a harsh environment - so I felt you guys would offer better advice.

Gloves:

I've gotten myself some liner gloves and expedition mittens are easy to figure out. They also want me to bring two other sets:

1 x wind stopper fleece gloves (any recommendations on properties these should have or brands?) 

1 x expedition gloves for higher camps (these look big and the pics show a black and yellow pair) - is there like a standard brand and properties most go for?

Crampons - seems like there are loads of different varieties - what brand and variety should I go for?

Ice axe - as above, I'm 6,1 with a slightly longer than average torso for my height - thoughts?

Glacier glasses - seems Julbo is the main brand - the suggestion online is they need to be category 4 but will category 3 be fine? Any particularly decent ones or stuff to look for?

Ski goggles / masks - any particular "features" to look out for. 

Sleeping bag foam mats and inflatable mattresses - is there a widely considered best in class for these / things to consider for extreme cold?

Socks - there is a big disparity in advice from one list to the next. Bearing in mind I'll be wearing trekking shoes / golf trainers with good traction for the lower hikes in hot temps, hiking boots and double boots? I'm assuming that I don't need to overcomplicate it and it's personal preference but if there are any "don't do that" best practice I'd be grateful to hear it. 

Nalgene bottles. 2 x 1 litre ones for water and I've heard in a few places to get a larger bottle for pee - like 1.5 litres. That's what I plan to order but do tell me if this is overkill. 

Thanks as always. The input to date has been amazing and I'll be relieved to get this stuff out of the way so I can fully focus on the task in hand!

Any.  ME are good.

Most are very bulky not dexterous enough to do anything useful with (e.g. Rab 8000).  I use North Face Himalayan mitts for high altitude or winter Arctic as they're the most dexterous I found and plenty warm.

Any basic 12 point.  E.g. Grivel G12

Any basic lightweight walking axe.  Dont get a curved climbing axe.

Get cat 4 for high altitude.  I use Julbo 2-4 as they work lower down too.

Nope.  You probably wont use them.

The best expedition ones (e.g. exped 8R) are very bulky and not fun to carry.  I'd use a basic accordian foam, with a 4-6 R rating above (e.g. thermarest Neolite)

You have a sock system already right?  Not complicated.  You don't need a lot of sock with double boots.  You want lots of room in your boots to not cut off circulation.

For boots, you dont need double boots, trainers AND hiking boots.  Thats overkill.  You can just get some light hiking boots or approach shoes to compliment the double boots.  In Dec, you can usually summit the 5k peaks (and do up to camp 2) in approach shoes.

just get a 1 litre nalgene for the pee bottle, but mark it with stickers so can you see and feel that its different from your water bottles.

If I had to give one bit of advice... don't camp at the main camp 3.  It's bloody awful.  Either just summit from camp 2 (which I did) or stay at the tiny Independenzia (I think?) camp just below camp 3.  Much nicer but only space for a few people (1 or 2 tents) next to the wooden shelter.

And bring games.  You're gonna spend a lot of time in a tent doing bugger all.

Put a list together on Lighterpack with weight for each item to give you an idea of total weight, carrying loads of t-shirts, underwear etc is just unnecessary extra weight. Realistically you will need different bits of gear for those other climbs mentioned but I would get something like the following which should work for lots of routes.

Gloves The black and yellow gloves are probably Black Diamond Guides or similar. These are warm but not very dexterous, should be fine if you are not doing anything technical. I would probably just bring 1 thin pair, 1 thick pair of gloves + mitts.

Crampons Any 12 point C2 will do (e.g. Petzl Vasak, there are probably lighter options)

Ice axe Any mountaineering axe is fine (Petzl Summit Evo, Grivel Air Tech). Axe length is personal preference. You could save some weight with a ski touring axe but it's a bit more of a specialised tool.

Glacier glasses Stick to category 4. Something to protect your nose is nice.

Sleeping Mats I usually use a Thermarest Zlite or a Thermarest XTherm. The XTherm is comfortable and light but I have had it replaced 2 times in 3 years due to delamination, probably more durable options than this. Sleeping bag, depends on when exactly you are going, generally get as high fill power as you can afford as it will pack down smaller.

Socks This is down to personal preference, some people wear multiple pairs, liners etc. You have to experiment and see what works for you. I would bring 3-4 wool pairs max, 1 lighter weight for approach, 1 medium weight and a warm pair for sleeping in (can also climb in them on summit day). I would also not carry 3 pairs of shoes/boots, just 2. Haven't been on Aconcagua but that seems like overkill.

Nalgene 3x Nalgenes seems unnecessary, I would take one widemouthed Nalgene and flat water bottles for the rest. (They can leak but you can carry spares as they are much lighter and less awkward to pack).

I would really go to the Alps first, you will figure out what you need much more easily from your own experience and preferences, plus it improves your probability of having a successful trip to Aconcagua.

Re ice axe - get a lightweight one with pick/adze.  The length should be so that if you hold it with hanging arm at the head the spike should be just a few cm clear of the ground. 

On the inflateable mattress, how does this look?

https://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/basket?error=Sorry%2c+the+promotional+code+....

I prefer it to the more tapered one as only a bit heavier but imagine no room to move my feet would end up annoying me - but would this present space issues?

And this underneath? 

https://www.outdooraction.co.uk/thermarest-ridgerest-classic-large-p15844/s...

The z-lite sol doesn't come in a large size...

Within this model alone, there are 4 variations! 

https://rockrun.com/products/grivel-g12-evo-crampons?variant=41336893014197 

The differences are in the bindings. You will need ones which fit your boots, so choose those first and then find suitable crampons.  The shop where you buy the boots should be able to advise you.  They will probably need some adjustment to fit properly.

You can ignore the New Classic, which is for boots without any crampon fittings. Mountaineering boots will have a fitting on the heel to take the yellow step-in clip. Some will have a groove on the toe which will take a metal bail (Cramp-o-Matic), if not you will need crampons with a basket (New-Matic).  The Dual-Matic offers both options, but you only need this if you have other boots which require the other type.

Most manufacturers offer similar configurations, but have their own names for them. 

I honestly don't. I didn't even know a sock "system" was a thing. I go hiking in wool socks and when it's warmer and I wear trainers I wear white under armour ankle socks. I've never had an issue to date but I do appreciate I have not been using correct kit on the socks front and could be more comfortable. Obviously being away for 2.5 weeks on the mountain is motivating me to actually give this item some attention for the first time ever. 

Would love to know what "best practice" is on socks more generally - there will be a few days of just wearing my trainers or trail shoes, then my boots (Danner 600 - probably not the most hardcore hiking boot there is) and obviously the last day which is the only day I would wear the double boots.  What approach would you take to the above? And what exactly is a sock "system"? Maybe I should go into a store and ask them...

Just following on from the above:

I'm guessing there will be maybe 3-4 days of hot days at the start where I'll just wear my golf trainers with extra traction or else trail shoes - so basically ankle socks for those - what material and brand would folk choose for this? Is it always wool? Do synthetic materials play a part at all? Presumably the two sock system doesn't apply here. 

Then there will be, let's say, 10-12 days in regular hiking boots in colder conditions (ranging from not particularly cold to cold). Most likely it will be dry for most, if not all, of the time. 

For folk who advocate a two sock system: what would be the material, brand, weight etc of the liner sock and the sock which goes over it? For those who disagree with the two sock system, what are you going for in these conditions?

Them there is summit day with the summit boots: sock material, weight and brand?

Sorry, all of the above sounds demanding but I can go into a shop and have a guy tell me the property of every single sock, but I'd be much better advised to listen to you guys!

Briansy, you´re obsessing a bit. For a start: listen to the multiple replies/articles linked in your other threads that trail shoes AND hiking boots AND altitude boots is overkill.

Re socks: there´s tons on the internet about sock systems. Read a few articles, make a choice, and buy them. There´s no way that you´re going to end up losing toes because of minimal differences between models. And don´t take too many.

You´re making the classic beginner´s mistake of thinking that you have to have multiple choices in your rucksack for every eventuality that could occur; you run the risk of failing due to exhaustion because you´re carrying 40kg on your back.

If there´s one major piece of advice I´d give you, it´s this: chuck the golf kit, it´s designed for completely different situations than will arise on the mountain. Golf shoes may be great for ensuring that you are stable for the swing on damp grass, but that won´t help you on wet lichen-covered boulders or after a dusting of snow.

PS this from someone who did his first alpine peaks in a fishing jacket, cord trousers, a woolly jumper and intensely itchy long woollen underwear which was always soaked in sweat, who was also carrying half the remaining contents of his winter wardrobe on his back in the blazing August sun. Learning through experience and by trial and error is the classic path, but your schedule doesn´t appear to have time for that

This sounds weird. I'm not even gonna google 'golf trainers' in case it's some kind of TikTok tight pants thirst trap. Either way, do not take those. 'Ankle socks'? Also no.

A pair of regular hiking/walking boots from leaving the hotel in Mendoza to doing the approach to PdM BC and maybe up to Canada or Nido depending which camp(s) you're using. Double boots above that. Hiking boots do not go above Nido. You will wear double boots on at least three days.

Synthetic wicks much better than merino, no matter what the ads say. Merino is warmer except for maybe modern Primaloft yarn socks. Popular combo is thin synth liner (Bridgedale make a good one) with a thicker maybe merino or wool blend sock (millions of brands). Two socks slips a little which possibly reduces blisters, but this also depends on your boots and your heel. Must be tested before leaving.

One pair of socks for the approach, maybe just a single sock, not liner+thick. Two pairs, or pairs of pairs if you're doing liner+thick, for the actual climb. Three pairs tops. You can easily wash/dry socks at PdM BC.

Approach shoes and well worn comfortable fairly rigid walking boots that will take flexible crampons, with appropriate socks. The trail shoes are for everything (from airport until you need boots higher on the hill), the boots will only have a couple of days use. 

It's personal preference really, but basically 2 options:

- Mid or heavy weight merino blend sock alone (dont get pure merino... they wear out quickly and dont wick that well).  Common for hiking and skiing, also works well with foam liners in double boots.  You'll need a few pairs though.

-  Synthetic liner sock, with mid/heavy weight merino.  This is better for wicking, less chance of blisters (for some) and you can often just change the liner socks out when they stink.  However, not everyone gets on with double socks.

Personally, I tend to go for the latter for most things except downhill skiing and technical mountaineering (less foot stability in the shoe), or summer hiking (due to warmth).  Synthetic just wicks better and you have drier feet, but merino is needed for warmth.

Oh and bring gaiters for the acclimatisation climbs.  The loose stones will get in your shoes and be super annoying!  Especially if you partake in a bit of scree running on the way down.

I’ve had another look at the video that my guides have put together for the kit list. They don’t reference liner socks (perhaps for the sake of simplicity) and have suggested the below. I’ve added suggested examples to buy that look like they would work. I can always experiment with liner socks next week in Scotland with the midweight socks (Is May in Scotland mid-weight or lightweight territory?) and if successful I'd use those with both the Midweight and Heavyweight socks but not lightweight?

-    Lightweight socks (maybe 2-3 pairs?) from start of the approach for first few days to avoid blisters:
These look solid? https://www.bridgedale.com/products/mens-lightweight-coolmax-comfort-boot 

-    Midweight socks (maybe 2-3 pairs) - once you start going up to the high camps up to summit day:
https://www.outdoorclothing.co.uk/footwear-c119/mens-c121/socks-c130/mens-m... 

-    Heavyweight socks (one pair) brand new that you’ve never worn before for summit day
https://www.smartwool.co.uk/uk/mountaineer-max-cushion-tall-crew-socks-sw00...
 

I think I could be pretty close with this, but any suggested amends (in terms of approach or brands / types of sock) would be welcomed!

Paralysis by analysis is happening here.

Seriously dude, just go out and buy socks suitable for the two types of footwear you will take!

Haha fair enough, I'll give it a rest. I've bought a few pairs to try out next week in Scotland. The rest of the stuff is pretty much bought. Exhausting process.

'Exhausting process ' 

It's certainly proving to be !!

No need. Keep asking as much as you like, the forum is here for questions and if anyone feels it's too much, they don't have to read on

All the best with your plans

You will need warm gloves for putting up tents in high camps. On summit day you'll likely just use mitts - mitts are warmer than gloves and the Argentinian guides are very keen on them. I rate the Rab Guide 2 gloves. They're not the warmest glove on the market, but they're dextrous and available in the UK.

Socks. The "don't do that" is taking a warmer pair of socks for just summit day, then realising your double boots are too tight.  People often take an unused (and therefore completely clean and dry) pair of socks for summit day, but make sure you have used this model with your double boots and you still have plenty of room (your feet swell at little at altitude). 

Water bottles. Nalgenes with wide mouths are preferred by guides as they are easy to fill up in camps on the mountain. If you just turned up with collapsible water bottles you will not be popular. I'd recommend 2.5 litres of carrying capacity for Aconcagua. 2 litres is fine for above BC but if it's hot the walk from Confluencia - Plaza de Mulas (19Km/1100m) can take 9 - 10 hours and you'd want more than 2 litres.

Sunglasses/goggles. It's a really windy and dusty mountain, so there's a good chance you will use goggles. I'd take 2 pairs of sunglasses (good to have a spare). One pair definitely Cat 4. I rate the Julbo 2 - 4 Reactive lenses, which are available in popular mountaineering models such as the Explorer.

Did I mention it was dusty? I'd recommend taking two buffs/lightweight neck gaiters as you use them so much.

Thanks very much Tom, I have gotten Hestra Heli Ski gloves for the warmer pair (look to be in a roughly similar class to the Rabs and Black Diamond Guides - they seemed to feel good and have better dexterity than the BD ones if not quite as warm, but warm enough for most of the way until mittens at Summit day I believe - I was planning to rent those but I may end up buying them. I didn't see the Rab Guide 2 anywhere, probs cos the winter season is over. I got Hestra C-zone contact gloves for the lighter weight fleece gloves as they felt comfortable and the palms seemed durable. I have Rab liners but will prob get another pair, maybe another brand.

I got 2 x 1 litre and 1 x 1.5 litre Nalgene bottles. There are certain things I don't want to skimp on and liquid vessels is one of them. I have a pair of Julbos on the way and will sort Ski goggles next Autumn as there was nothing in the shops.

Cheers re the socks, debating whether to bite the bullet and just buy the La Sportiva boots so I can take em for a trial run a couple of times. 

Nalgene do a lightweight version of their bottles as well, which from memory are nearly half the weight. 

I cant help you on the high altitude stuff. Having done many ultras I can state, with authority, that blisters can really ruin your day. Even if you can plod on, you'll be moving slower, getting colder, getting into camp later, getting less sleep. It all adds up to a bad experience, rather than an enjoyable one.

Get your footwear sorted and test it. Learn about how to pre tape your feet. Some precut K-tape, and fleecy web weighs a few grams, but will make your life easier. Not all socks are equal and some may work better for you than others. The only way to test it is to go for long walks, and see what hurts. Then fix it. Then repeat.

To which I would add, if you think you have a blister brewing, deal with it as soon as possible, with Compeed or your preferred tape. Don't wait for the blister to grow and burst. 

Agreed. Compeed works for some people. I've heard stories of people removing it, and it taking the roof of the blister off as well. I suppose it depends at what stage you treat it. If its a hot spot, or a full on burst blister. You can usually soak tape off.

Yes, I've done that, and it hurts! But I have found Compeed effective in preventing blisters if it's applied before the blister forms - when the tissue is starting to feel hot, but hasn't actually blistered. Another option is simply not to try to remove the Compeed, but leave it until such time as it feels safe to do so. If it's applied correctly, it can stay on for days. 

Thanks so much for this. I was thinking: tape them up and do all of the "pre-stuff" necessary to ensure they aren't even a consideration - rather than let them be dependant on the success or otherwise of my sock choices. I'll google "best practice blister prevention" but feel free to send on any links!  

Best practice is to practice yourself, not rely on some anonymouse internet users. Ok, of course it can be helpful to listen to others advice but different people, with different skin and different equipment will have different problems, or no problems at all.

Some peolpe can wear almost anything and almost never get blisters, some people can take all the precautions possible and still suffer and have to really look after their feet. 

Don't buy footwear on line, you need to get a fitting then get out on some long walks with your chosen boot/sock combo and see how you go.

Consider the sizing of the mitts.  You may wish to wear liner gloves or thin fleece gloves under them.  Consider fitting idiot loops to all your main gloves/mitts - you don't want to drop them off the mountain.

The hestra gloves are extremely good, they come with great wrist loops already, normally because they are so thick you have to pop them off quickly for some jobs requiring dexterity. 

Op. Check if you can do basic admin wearing them, give them an oil/wax too, so they don't dry out. 

I had massive blister problems for years, then was recommended Strappol  tape by a guide last year and haven’t had a single issue whilst using it.

I'm now on Balaclavas, tried a few on in Ellis Brigham, only problem is the various kit lists vary massively.

One suggested a light synthetic / breathable one.

Another suggested a mid-heavyweight wool one.

Another suggested a "balaclava system" - one lightweight one with a heavyweight one which fits over it snugly.

I want to say it's probably safest to take 2 and hopefully the lightweight one would be enough but if not you can always have a heavier one in reserve? Also, some have little mouth piercings or covered over slits designed into them for ventilation in that area - others don't. I'm inclined to steer clear of those? Thoughts? 

A lightwight balaclava will help lower down, it has the benefits of keeping the sun off the skin, but also from keeping the dust out - it can be dusty and windy down below

Once at base camp, and higher up, go for the full old skool scottish balaclava - heavy duty wool works the best, just make sure you can get your sunnies / goggles on as well with them - some of the balaclava's have a flap that protrudes over the eye slit so you could wear the sunnies underneath the balaclava

As for covered slits over the mouthpiece that is personal, depends on how heavy you are breathing