/ Civetta. Have I missed something?

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mike kann - on 30 Apr 2012
Seems to me having looked at it from afar, the Civetta has got to be one of the greatest alpine objectives out there. The NW face is simply massive with routes of 1400m on it. But when you type it into google it's difficult to find much information out about it. Having looked at the video's there are of the via ferrata's and the various pretty inadequate topo's there are it's obvious that it's no ordinary mountain. What I don't understand is why this mountain isn't more famous/celebrated? Surely it should be as celebrated as the tre cime, or Marmolada, or the Sella but for some reason it's relatively unknown? It also seems to be a bit of a backwater, that area in general. Again it seems a bit odd. Any ideas?
whistler - on 30 Apr 2012
In reply to mike kann:
I have also wondered that. I have an Italian friend who climbs on Civetta every year and has a project there with a stack of 7b ish pitches on top of each other. Perhaps the routes are too hard for 99% but not hard enough for the 1%. On a separate note, my friend recently told me that he is writing a guidebook so perhaps it will get more attention in near future.
subalpine - on 30 Apr 2012
In reply to mike kann: not quite as steep?
mike kann - on 30 Apr 2012
In reply to subalpine: Hardly - there are 1400m routes on it, 3 times the size of anything on 3 cime and 1.5 times Marmolada, and just as hard. It just seems to be below the radar for some reason. I mean look at it: http://www.planetmountain.com/img/1/4844.jpg

Why WOULDN'T you want to climb that?
Andy Nisbet - on 30 Apr 2012
In reply to mike kann:

The Philip-Flamm used to be one of the must do routes in the Alps. Four of us from Aberdeen went out specifically to do it in 1984, but it had lots of British ascents before that. I've done several other routes on the Civetta in the early 80s. Trouble is, the routes have loose sections and seem to have gone out of fashion. I think it's a great mountain.
Heike - on 30 Apr 2012
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

I agree with Andy and it has some great southfacing routes,too. E.g. the Tissi Route - superb day out. Just not that popular (at least with Brits)
Jon_Warner - on 30 Apr 2012
In reply to mike kann: I've done the via ferrata. That was pretty awesome. It wasn't crowded but it wasn't quiet either - the bunkhouse at the top was full.

The climbing looked absolutely quality and hard as nails, and from what I can remember you're looking at a 2h hard walk in uphill to the NW face where Marmolada you can get climbing pretty quickly...
SteveSBlake - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mike kann:

Andy's right, anyone 40 or over who has/had ambitions would know of the wall and it's routes. Many of the biographies from the 70/80s have an account of something, usually the Phillip/Flamm

The late Paul Nunn's account is 'interesting'

It's just not fashionable nowadays, and most Brit climbing focus lies elswhere.

Regards,

Steve
mike kann - on 01 May 2012
In reply to SteveSBlake:

> It's just not fashionable nowadays, and most Brit climbing focus lies elswhere.

What, you mean Chamonix?
mike kann - on 01 May 2012
In reply to Andy Nisbet: So how hard IS the Philip Flamm? I'm trying to weigh up whether my arms could withstand the 800m of knarl, or whether I should go for a lower grade but longer and have a crack at the Comici. They both look flippin amazing, but I think the PF might be a step beyond me at the minute!
Al Evans on 01 May 2012
In reply to Andy Nisbet:
> (In reply to mike kann)
>
> The Philip-Flamm used to be one of the must do routes in the Alps. Four of us from Aberdeen went out specifically to do it in 1984, but it had lots of British ascents before that. I've done several other routes on the Civetta in the early 80s. Trouble is, the routes have loose sections and seem to have gone out of fashion. I think it's a great mountain.

When I was out in Chamonix in 1969, Paul Nunn and Jack Street drove to the Civetta just for a few days to do the Phillipe Flamme and suceeded on an early UK ascent, then came back to Chamonix. It was certainly one of the sought sfter routes at the time.
efrance24234 - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mike kann: i went to do the phillip/flamm last year but we got snow:( we had the viaferrata to ourselves in winter condition and when we got to the hut the guys looked so sueprised to see people as they hadnt had anyone in for a while. It was brill but can anyone tell me why i got served a coffie in a bowl?
Elliot
Ben Briggs - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mike kann: Looks a cool face , anyone got a topo of any of the routes?
Bruce Hooker - on 01 May 2012
In reply to efrance24234:

> It was brill but can anyone tell me why i got served a coffie in a bowl?

Maybe 'cos that's what they do over there? It's easier to dip your bread into.
Andy Nisbet - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to Andy Nisbet) So how hard IS the Philip Flamm?

To be honest, I can't really remember. But I'm sure there's quite a bit of of British 5a. We aided one pitch which has been done free at a high grade. I may have pulled on the odd peg. I wrote the description down on paper to save the weight of a book. Only snag is that I forgot to write down where the route started, and the cliff is several km long. We went to the hut and asked the guardian where the Philip-Flamm was. He refused to tell us! Then I saw a postcard with the line drawn on. So I went up to the guardian and asked to buy a postcard. His face was a picture when he realised which one I wanted.
SteveSBlake - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to SteveSBlake)
>
> [...]
>
> What, you mean Chamonix?

i was thinking more of Spain ;-)
mike kann - on 01 May 2012
In reply to SteveSBlake: Oh yer, that too...
mike kann - on 01 May 2012
In reply to Andy Nisbet: Haha - excellent story. I don't suppose you've done the Solleder-Lettenbauer - that looks considerably more reasonable apart from the length...
SteveSBlake - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mike kann:

Joking aside I think for the huge majority of folks climbing now, doing something like the Phillip Flamm, or any other route on the Civetta, is so beyond their horizon that at best it would be esoteric.

Many would think it an odd name for a boulder problem.....

BITD, it would feature in magazines, was written up as a right of passage in bios from the 60/70s, and quite right. There was the standard Dollies tick list, The Pilastro, The Comici, The Cassins,
The Yellow Edge, etc, pretty much up at the top was the PF. It had real - deserved kudos.

It's a funny thing that while standards have nominally gone up, British ascents of something like this have probably gone down, which is a real shame. But, I guess that's just a reflection of climbing now. Who knows it may change..........

It would be a stunning trip.

Steve



Andy Nisbet - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> I don't suppose you've done the Solleder-Lettenbauer - that looks considerably more reasonable apart from the length...

I don't think so. But we did do some lovely slightly shorter routes, but still long

whistler - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mike kann:

After a quick search it turns out that my friend has been busy indeed:

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP20/newswire-civetta-nuvole-barocche

What a modest guy, he never mentioned any of that. Anyway, interesting thread and makes me even more excited about my trip this summer.

Has anyone here done the Cassin on Torre Trieste? Got recommended by a friend as an outstanding route.


mike kann - on 02 May 2012
mike kann - on 02 May 2012
In reply to Andy Nisbet: Cheers Andy - looked over at the NW wall from the top of the Sella many times and thought it just looks insanely awesome. Just got to get round to getting strong enough to do it!
mike kann - on 02 May 2012
In reply to whistler: When are you going? I'll be in the area for the second half of august and maybe early September...
Andy Nisbet - on 02 May 2012
In reply to mike kann:

You don't need to be strong (I never have been), just fit.
mike kann - on 02 May 2012
In reply to Andy Nisbet: Well yeah - strong AND fit ;) At the minute a kitten would give me a run for my money.
alpinist63 - on 02 May 2012
In reply to mike kann:
Hi whistler,
the cassin on torre trieste is very good route indeed, the hardest part is the start, it's the same as the carlesso. apart from the first 3-4 pitches, route finding isn't too difficult. the rock is good, in situ equipment ok. 2 ledges offer the possibility to bail.
the descent is quite long, the first abseils are easy to find, the last part is a bit tricky to reach the couloir taken on the approach.
ads.ukclimbing.com
whistler - on 02 May 2012
In reply to alpinist63:
Thanks for the information. All I got to do now is convince my partner this is a good idea:)

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