/ help for translation: climbing words

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mangia on 01 May 2012 - host248-28-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it
Hi, I'm an italian climber, I'm working at guidebook about the Mont Blanc range. The book has been translated into english by a professional translator. Now I'm checking this translation and I'm not sure about some words she used to describe climbing. I ask your advise for:
-lower-off: do English people sometimes use this, instead of "abseil"?
-stance: is it the same of "belay"? Does the expression "belay stance" really exist?
-niche: can I use "niche" when I mean a small col, where you have to pass to get on the other side of the face?
- how do you english climbers call the particular feature of rock (only granite) like slight flakes, usually unprotectables,that you often find near ridges or other very exposed places? I mean, in french, the "cannelures"...
Thanks to everybody who will help me!I will be happy to give informations about the Mont Blanc conditions in exchange.
Marco
Kid Spatula - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:

We'd use abseil. A lower off is the thing you'd actually abseil from.

Stance, and belay stance would both work. Or just belay.

Niche in this case would probably be a notch. A niche is like a small cave feature.

I think the cannelures would be flutings maybe?
999thAndy on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:

> - how do you english climbers call the particular feature of rock (only granite) like slight flakes, usually unprotectables,that you often find near ridges or other very exposed places? I mean, in french, the "cannelures"...


Fluting? More common on grit / sandstone than granite, and sometimes protectable with cams.

AJM - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:

A lower-off (the noun) is a fixed anchor that you could abseil from - a relais in French I believe. To lower off (the verb) is what you would do on a single pitch sport route - one climber lowering another once they have topped out.

Stance=belay=belay stance (yes it does exist) - all the same thing. A point where you lower from or where you stop at the end of a pitch. Belay is also a verb as well.

A niche is usually a small cave or depression. If on a ridge you passed around or between gendarmes I would think of the gap between them as a "notch" in the ridge.

No idea on the last one I'm afraid - I don't have a clear picture of what you mean. If you could link to one that might help?
jonny taylor on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:
Re lower-off, I interpreted that differently to Mr Spatula above. Agree with him in terms of nouns, but I took you to mean a verb, in which case to me "lowering off" is what you do from the top of a route where your belayer pays out rope to control your descent, with the rope running through the (yes...) "lower-off", whereas "abseiling" is where you yourself have control of your descent, and the rope itself is not running through the "lower-off" as you descend.
Jon Stewart - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:

Here's a start, I'm sure others will help too (probably more accurately than me, too).

Lower-off (verb): to descend, weight on the rope, with your climbing partner feeding out rope through a belay device etc.

Lower-off (noun): the double bolts/chain etc at the the top of a sport route

Stance: usually means a ledge or whatever where you can construct a belay. Also sometimes used for a resting place in the middle of a pitch. I think 'belay stance' is technically OK (but not used), because the stance is the ledge, whereas the belay is what you contruct with the ropes. I would shout up to my partner "are you at the belay yet?" not "are you at the belay stance yet?".

Niche: not quite a cave.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=172232
Gordon Stainforth - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:
> Hi, I'm an italian climber, I'm working at guidebook about the Mont Blanc range. The book has been translated into english by a professional translator. Now I'm checking this translation and I'm not sure about some words she used to describe climbing. I ask your advise for:
> -lower-off: do English people sometimes use this, instead of "abseil"?

No, a lower-off is not the same as an abseil. (Lower-off: leader is lowered by the second/belayer with rope running through an anchor at the top of a climb/pitch; abseil: the climber lowers him/herself on a doubled rope from an abseil point.
> -stance: is it the same of "belay"?
Not quite. A stance is the place where you belay e.g. a small ledge.
Does the expression "belay stance" really exist? Rarely used. UK climbers use the term 'belay' to refer to the whole thing.
> -niche: can I use "niche" when I mean a small col, where you have to pass to get on the other side of the face?
Absolutely not. A niche is something completely different, a deep recess in a rock face. Col is the best word for what you want.
> - how do you english climbers call the particular feature of rock (only granite) like slight flakes, usually unprotectables,that you often find near ridges or other very exposed places? I mean, in french, the "cannelures"...
I think this is the equivalent of 'fluting' but I'm not sure.
> Thanks to everybody who will help me!I will be happy to give informations about the Mont Blanc conditions in exchange.
Information, singular (i.e. abstract noun) :)
> Marco

scott titt - on 01 May 2012
In reply to Kid Spatula:
> (In reply to mangia)
>
> We'd use abseil.
Yes
A lower off is the thing you'd actually abseil from.
> No, a lower off is a thing you lower off from, I'd abseil from an abseil point

> Stance, and belay stance would both work. Or just belay.
> No. A stance is a place you can stand, a belay is a plce where you can
belay, a belay stance is a place where you can stand and belay. Stance is a bit old fashioned (I should know!)

> Niche in this case would probably be a notch. A niche is like a small cave feature.
> Yes!

> I think the cannelures would be flutings maybe?
Flutings on limestone, on granite perhaps runnels?

Gordon Stainforth - on 01 May 2012
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

sorry - took so long to answer that (phone went) that I see loads of ppl above have said more or less the same thing :)
tlm - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:

Here is a picture of cannelures:

http://www.olivierdufour.fr/guide/images/phocagallery/escalade/pointe-dran-woody-wood-pecker/thumbs/...

I think 'flutings' is the best translation.

Also, I found this, which might be useful?

http://www.gdargaud.net/Climbing/Lex_Fr.html
tlm - on 01 May 2012
In reply to scott titt:
> (In reply to Kid Spatula)
> > Flutings on limestone, on granite perhaps runnels?

Runnels! A much better answer!!

mangia on 01 May 2012 - host248-28-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it
tanks to everybody! I think the translator used "stance" and "lower-off" to avoid repetitions while describing the abseil descent, because sometimes you have to use the same word too many times. Now it's all clear!
For the "flutes" or "runnels", the photo was right, but on limestone. The right word for granit is runnel? sorry I have no photos of these feature to link...
tlm - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:

Here are some at Roc de Boef, which I think might be granite?
http://chaps.canalblog.com/images/t-Boeufs.jpg

the thing is, we don't really get runnels (or cannelures) much in the UK - not like those ones anyway, so we don't really need to describe them much in route descriptions...
tlm - on 01 May 2012
mangia on 01 May 2012 - host248-28-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it
I think runnel will work.
Another problem: "terminus" instead of "bergschrund". I think "terminus" is only about... train stations. That translator is driving me mad... I often climb with english people and none of them ever speaks about "terminus" when we have to cross the last crevasse before an ice wall!
Postmanpat on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:

You might want to e mail Luca Signorelli who is (I've always assumed) Italian and a much respected contributor to these forums who writes excellent English.(you can find him by searching users names on this site) He probably knows most of the words in translation but if not he would probably point you in the right direction.
Bruce Hooker - on 01 May 2012
In reply to mangia:

I don't think there is an English word for bergshrund, mostly the German word is used, except for Francophiles who would say rimaye, but they are in a minority. Never heard the word "terminus"... could be from across the Atlantic?
mangia on 01 May 2012 - host248-28-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it
In reply to Bruce Hooker: I think so...

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