/ Best rope for scrambling......

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AdCo82 on 10 May 2012
Is a rope with dry treatment for scrambling in the wet best??

What length is best as it would be for grade I through to grade III???

What thickness???
54ms - on 10 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas:

I'd not bother with dry treatment, it's more to stop your rope freezing in winter, although most posher ropes are dry treated and handle better.

As an HVS/Font 6a climber do you really think you need a rope a dedicated rope for scrambling?

AdCo82 on 10 May 2012
In reply to 54ms:

I am happy without, it is taking a mate along!!!

Thanks for the semi useful answer
Andrew Lodge - on 10 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas: I got one of these

Seems to do the job for scrambling with the family, cost 30 rather than 35 as well.
54ms - on 10 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas:

Fair do's...my take on this would be this then. If money is no object, I'd probably get 30m of nice 9.2mm to 9.4mm.

If it is then I'd either buy a cheapo "wall" rope of a similar length or take an old climbing rope, fairly sure you're going to get an idea of what you want and cut the old one down to length. It's not going to take major falls so something you less then comfortable leading on will be fine.
AdCo82 on 10 May 2012
In reply to 54ms: so we are saying stick to 30m is general belief????
54ms - on 10 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas:

Scrambling is such a grey area as it's so much about personal ability and judgement calls, there is no right or wrong answer. Most people I've known who've gone for MIA and been deferred have been on this day.

However a 30m should do you fine. Personally I'd prefer a slightly thicker rope for sections you don't want to belay in conventional climbing methods, but thinner ropes have undoubted advantage of being lighter.
Captain Gear - on 10 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas: Any old short length of rope will do.

A reasonably diameter is probably a good idea as it will offer greater friction when using with direct belay.

20-35m of old 8.5mm to 9mm half rope will be more than adequate.

The were a few ridiculous articles in the last issue of Summit suggesting that 50-60m of 10mm rope, a set of wallnuts, harnesses, helmets, and special trainers costing 100 per pair were required.

I've got 20m of Mammut Serenity you can buy for 30 posted if you are interested.
54ms - on 10 May 2012
In reply to Captain Gear:

We're they getting confused with classic V Diffs?
andyd1970 - on 10 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas: Hi
I noticed you put something the other day about Tryfan. If its for this route or similar, 30m would be fine as thats what I usually take friends up on but the lighter the better. Beal do a rope called the Joker which they do in a scramble version which is 35m long and 9.1.
The Ex-Engineer - on 11 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas: The questions are very good ones...

For around 2/3 of UK scrambles something like 12-14 metres will be easily sufficient. It is enough to cope with the short steep steps commonly encountered on routes of all grades such as Tryfan North Ridge (I) to the Clogwyn y Parson Arete (III).

For a smaller number of additional routes, including many gullies, 18-20 metres will do just fine and is enough to allow for a leader to bring up 2 seconds if required. There are then a very small number of scrambles where a longer rope is extremely useful; these are often also classed as Moderate rock climbs but include popular and classic grade IIIs like Curved Ridge and Cneifion Arete.

A great deal also depends on the skills or the group and the manner in which it is approached.
- With competent individuals, or a larger party, or on easier, less continuous ground, the rope will generally remain in the rucsac until required and will then only be used on short (or awkward) steps with one person seconding at a time. In any of these situations, it is more likely that a shorter rope will generally be absolutely fine.
- However, on grade II/IIIs especially with a highly competent leader and 1 or 2 less able seconds, it is far more likely that you will move roped (with harnesses) for the much of the route with the leader switching between short roping and short pitching. In this sort of situation, a longer rope gives the leader more flexibility even where it is not absolutely essential.

As to diameter, it is fairly simple.
- If you plan to use the rope, take a thicker one. 8.5/9mm is fine but 10mm probably handles better for direct belays, body belays and using with an Italian hitch especially in cold/wet weather or with gloves on.
- If you plan for the rope to remain in the rucsac, take a thinner and hence lighter rope. That would generally imply 8mm as it is available fairly cheaply in short lengths (e.g. Beal Rando 30m).

The ropes that I might take scrambling:
30m x 10mm - for planned use on grade II/III scrambles and Mod/Diff climbs
20m x 8mm - for emergency/occasional use on grade II/III scrambles
12.5m x 8.5mm - for emergency use on grade I/II scrambles and classic ridge walks

FrJ on 11 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas:
I'd have an eye on what my mate was like.

*Slightly thicker rope may be heavier to carry, but easier to handle if you expect him to belay you on lead. Again dry treated probably easier to handle.
*Longer rope (even up to 50m) might be handy if you think he might freak out a bit and need to back off (abseil) the route.
*If he's generally got a good head for heights and done some ropework before and the rope is likely to stay in the bag then the shorter and thinner ones make sense.

Sy Finch on 11 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas: I would go for a 10/10.5mm single rope. Simply because it will last longer. As on scrambles the rope is constantly running over and around rock, more than any rock climb. And using direct belays round rock spikes and using munter hitches too will all have a lot of wear on a rope. As for the weight people always harp on about, c'mon, man up ya big girls blouses, I don't see why it is such an issue. Get a thicker rope, it's not as if you will have a large rack to carry on top!? Half a dozen nuts, a few QD's and some slings. As for length, perhaps 35m would be the most useful for most routes and eventualities.
54ms - on 11 May 2012
In reply to Slimy:

It's not just weight though is it, but bulk as well? Means a bigger sack then you would normally carry. That said sometimes there is a lot to be said for just manning up.

The ware thing massively boils down to how much you plan to use the thing...personally I'd have not thought it would be that often, although if your taking groups that may be a bit different.

I think the ex engineer sums it rather nicely.
Sy Finch on 11 May 2012
In reply to 54ms: As it sounds like he will be taking inexperienced mates along on scrambles, it sounds like it would be used often. I use a 30L day sack and a 50m single rope isn't that bulky stored under the lid. On a scramble, he is likely to be pitching most of a route, with beginners, particularly on grade 3. So the rope would be in use most of the time, hence the need for the thicker rope perhaps? In his situation I wouldnt have the rope stored in a bag anyway, I shoulder a load of coils to shorten the rope so there's about 15-20m of rope free. Take some coils in the hand and move together without putting in pro, over easy ground. Just weaving the rope round rocks and spikes as protection (rope wear again). Then pitch when there is a steeper or more exposed section, and you have the option of letting off some coils if you need more rope.
54ms - on 11 May 2012
In reply to Slimy:

All valid points, but unless I was taking proper muppets into the hills, I'd worry if I had to keep pitching things after a few trips, otherwise it would just feel like work.
Sy Finch on 11 May 2012
In reply to 54ms: Yeah, I guess. Personally, pitching on scrambles doesnt bother me, I enjoy it, I wouldn't climb otherwise. And I like to be out on the rock long as possible and in the surroundings. Plus, having an inexperienced person on the end of the rope makes me feel a whole lot more comfortable that they are safe.
iksander on 11 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas: For scrambling I got a 30m length of mammut genesis cheap when someone got their 60m rope damaged and cut it
Oujmik - on 11 May 2012
In reply to An Triubhas: I have two ropes as suggested above... a 25m lenth of 8.1mm for when the rope will either stay in the pack or just be used to bring up my second and a 30m length of 10mm for situations when we intend to use the rope (i.e. if we're placing runners). Nether are dry treated, but then I'm a bit of a fair weather scrambler...

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