/ Welsh 3000 advice

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trollman - on 18 May 2012
Hello there
Going to have a go at running?! the welsh 3000 next bank holiday weekend, six of us are
Camping at Nant Peris so have decided to start at Pen y pass, I'm after advice on the
route back down from Snowdon to Nant Peris, is there a rough path of sorts and how steep.
We walked it two years ago, starting with a crap bivi on snowdon, did it in 17hr with a few
long stops, we're all about 345 marathon pace fit, so is 12 hours about right for our day out?
Also do we start the timer on top of crib Foch or at pen y pass, every minute counts!
thanks for any advice
T
wilkie14c - on 18 May 2012
In reply to trollman:
IainRUK is your man for that, email him I'm sure he'll answer your Qs
Darkskys - on 18 May 2012
In reply to trollman: Half way station theres a path down...if you follow the fence and jump over the styal and head up to your right, follow the scree path down
The New NickB - on 18 May 2012
In reply to trollman:

Starting from Pen Y Pass you are reversing the first three peaks, unless you go up the Pyg. From Pen Y Pass you could start on Crib Goch and then descend the Llanberis Path once you have been up Snowdon.

The standard route is Snowdon first then turn left at the end of Crib Goch and descend into the corrie and down to the bridge on the road, slow going.

The Llanberis Path is a fast descent and puts you a similar distance from Nant Peris.
highclimber - on 18 May 2012
In reply to trollman: The descent is near the Clogwyn station, not the Halfway station. you can decend down into cwm hetiau and generally follw it down from there. The other option as mentioned above is to do snowdon C-y-Dd, CG and the reverse your steps to the col between the two and descend that way - it wouldn't be much different in time from the other way though you will end up at Ynys Ettws rather than N peris
trollman - on 18 May 2012
In reply to The New NickB: Yes we walked the standard route starting on snowdon before,
our original plan this time was to be lazy and catch train up snowdon but it won't get us there till 10am which is too late as we want to be in a pub in the evening, don't say run faster.
We will try the track down from halfway station, sounds interesting
T.

Ps meant Grib Goch
trollman - on 18 May 2012
In reply to highclimber: Cheers, better make sure I get the right station, my mates moan
every time I go off course, I fancy a different route as done the standard north ridge
decent last time
T
highclimber - on 18 May 2012
In reply to trollman: its pretty indistinct but if its clear you shouldn't encounter too much trouble. if it's poor vis i'd opt for a different option.
IainRUK - on 18 May 2012
In reply to trollman: For the time, running, its normally peak to peak.

Walk up slowly. Start the watch at snowdon summit > Carnedd Ugain > Crib goch.. back track to the bwlch descend down glas mawr to the road > Elidir..

3:45 pace.. sub 12 should be comfortable...

If wanting to start with crib goch the two quickest descents are at clogywn station, cwm hetiau, or further on, just passed Llechogg.. but its definitly quicker starting from snowdon..
IainRUK - on 18 May 2012
In reply to IainRUK: 9 am train will be fine.. you'll be done by 7..
trollman - on 18 May 2012
In reply to IainRUK: Cheers, ok, if weather is fine we will start on CG and find the
Clogwyn station decent, if misty prob slow walk up and start on Snowdon and follow normal
route, don't think we're get train up as it takes a while to get back from Foel Fras to campsite.
Think iv made a plan now
Thanks
T


altirando - on 19 May 2012
In reply to trollman: The descent from Clogwyn station is short but steep, useful to have the big carpark as a second breakfast stop. I might have a few people disagreeing, but I do think that you have to climb Snowdon on the day rather than start on top. Sub 12 hours should be possible without much in the way of running - I just cruised round at a comfortable pace, enjoying the day, without any aims except finishing, and was well under this. Hope the weather improves for you! But if you do start on top, isn't it now customary to cross on to the Glyders at Penypass?
highclimber - on 19 May 2012
In reply to altirando:
> (In reply to trollman) But if you do start on top, isn't it now customary to cross on to the Glyders at Penypass?

who told you that and why would you even think that was a good way to go about it?
IainRUK - on 19 May 2012
In reply to altirando: The record is peak to peak..

I've only used PyP when doing the 3000ers as a loop.. normally nant peris > elidir > glyders > Ogwen.

I've done it 3 or 4 times now.. never quick.. think 8 hrs was my quickest guiding a mate but there was snow around and we did N > s which is slower..
Padraig on 19 May 2012
In reply to IainRUK:
How did Goatfell go? Kinda thought the road/terrain mix would suit you?
IainRUK - on 20 May 2012
In reply to Padraig: 5th.. not great.. but I've a foot injury so took it easy on the descent. I hit the summit in 5th and 3rd (Brian Marshall) and 4th had a gap on me and I had a gap on Al Smith so I just coasted in from there..

Great race. Absolutely incredible island. Never visited when I lived there. I ended up going out for another 10 mile run on the tops afterwards as loved it so much.

Almost 100 miles in the last 7 days so legs felt tired. Es T won, 1:20:30 or so I was 1:26. First proper fell race since September and first shorter distance one since the Snowdon race last july I think.. due to US trips and injuries and marathon focus..

Really enjoyed it though. Stunning day today, went up Goat Fell again so I could get the views and also watch a few of the island peak runners..
Postmanpat on 21 May 2012
In reply to trollman:

Couple of additional questions: Has anyone got estimated time (in percentage of total terms I guess) for each section: Snowdon/Glyders, Carneddau

Coming off the top of Glyder Fach to Bwlch Tryfan the top of the scree path is a mess. Is it better to cut right for 200 ft or so (towards Galt Yr Ogof) and then cut back to the main path?
Michael Hood - on 21 May 2012
In reply to Postmanpat: In terms of time including starting from Pen-Y-Pass and finishing at Aber falls, I did 3:4:5 (+30 mins rest at Ogwen) many years ago, so time Peak to Peak is probably in the ratio 2:4:4.

You may think that an hour to get down to Aber falls at the end is a bit long, but my legs weren't still with me :-)
altirando - on 21 May 2012
In reply to highclimber: I think it might have been on the 3000 website, but I must admit I couldn't work out how to fit in Tryfan. It would avoid the horrid slog up Elidir though. I honestly think that the emphasis on time almost spoils the day - none of us is likely to break the record, so just enjoy the day and the experience. My most memorable bit was strolling along the Carnedds after Llewelyn with the early evening sun starting to dip over the sea. Could easily have run that last section to knock a bit more time off the total, but what would be the point? Don't think I would like to do the route with a group of male runners - could get very competitive and ultimately harder.
IainRUK - on 21 May 2012
In reply to altirando: Its one of the greatest records in mountain running.. its a great challenge attainable by most but going for a good time makes it special..

Time wise..

I always think the Glyders and the Carneddau about equal out.

You can't race the route though. Its too far. This year we're going for a staggered start aiming to finish at similar times at the end..
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IainRUK - on 21 May 2012
In reply to Postmanpat:
> (In reply to trollman)
>
> Couple of additional questions: Has anyone got estimated time (in percentage of total terms I guess) for each section: Snowdon/Glyders, Carneddau
>
> Coming off the top of Glyder Fach to Bwlch Tryfan the top of the scree path is a mess. Is it better to cut right for 200 ft or so (towards Galt Yr Ogof) and then cut back to the main path?

The gully is horrible but its the quickest way..
Sean Kelly - on 21 May 2012
In reply to trollman: I've known a number of runners descending down those steep slopes and have seen some with broken legs as the terrain is very unforgiving. The railway path is a very fast safe descent and you can ascend Elidyr Fawr via the slate quarries by following initially a path at the back of Vivian quarry and then following the big incline all the way to just below the top. The descent down via Cwm Glas is OK but there is a scrambly bit beside Cyrn Las. Can also descend Crib Goch's North Ridge which saves doubling back to the col between CG & CyD. When in Nant follow the minor road by the Chapel and the footpath (by farm gate) beyond up to a footbridge and strike off left towards EF on a faint path (easier to see looking down). Don't carry on up the valley to the col as it is very boggy. Pretty straightforward after that.
Postmanpat on 21 May 2012
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Postmanpat)
> [...]
>
> The gully is horrible but its the quickest way..

Thanks. Ill be going for a good walking time rather than running/racing. Does my alternative idea exist? Looked like it did from half way down.

trollman - on 21 May 2012
In reply to Sean Kelly: Ok thanks for the warning, would love to run down the llanberis
path but wanted to get back to campsite at Nant Peris to pick up kit and loo break etc
before heading up again, I think I will choose our route on this section the day before
we start.
T
IainRUK - on 21 May 2012
In reply to Sean Kelly: The cwm after the Llechogg descent is good..

Llanberis Path is way too long..

The North Ridge provides an eye catching route but its probably technically harder than doubling back, plus further..

Re the descent down Cyrn Las.. I think we all use different routes.. I go off the outflow of the llyn, just after the tree.. others go much further right.. others to the left and down Cyrn Las.. the RHS descent is said to be quickest.. I need to recce that one.

The main Elidir Path is now obvious..

Postman.. there are a few paths later on but its easiest to carry on down towards Y Foel Goch and take the miners track back.. but that's a fair detour. TBH the most logical and enjoyable route would be Bristly Ridge itself..
Postmanpat on 22 May 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

Thanks to you and all respondents
robw007 - on 06 Jun 2012
In reply to trollman:

Keen to have a crack at this sometime this summer.

Just a couple of queries not picked up above:

A. Route off Tryfan = going to go up east ridge of Pen yr Ole Wen so need to come down to Glen Dena. Have heard a few theories - most recently head back to south col from Tryfan summit - scoot down to track parallel with Heather Terrace.

B. Where to finish - Aber falls - car park at end of road?

Cheers
robw007 - on 06 Jun 2012
In reply to trollman:

PS - to Trollman - how did you get on?

I was at the Nant Peris campsite this BH Monday - rekkied the first leg descent down from Crib Goch to the campsite. Crib Goch was mad busy!!
IainRUK - on 06 Jun 2012
In reply to robw007:

A: West gully.. head down the north ridge, 20 yards on hit a small bwlch, descend left.. steeply down the gully, at the bottom turn right and skirt under tryfan down to milestone buttress car park..

Your other ways are far far longer..

B: Aber top car park is the easiest.. you can also go to the conway valley side, I forget the name of the car park but its a long drive around.

To get to Aber go direct, head off FF, before Drum, descend to the llyn and walk out via the track..

robw007 - on 06 Jun 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

Thanks for that - thought as much.

So its north off summit to gully - down to west then skirt round north etc - makes sense.

Was supposed to rekkie this yesterday but weather so poor binned it after Glyders!

Cheers
roypartington - on 16 Jun 2012
Tryfans west gully off the summit. I went down it last week, its quick and a lot quicker than the other routes off I thought as Ive tried them in readiness for doing the welsh3000 next weekend, think the weather will put paid to that though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZLfyObvxcw
scott sadler - on 18 Jun 2012
In reply to trollman:
Up to Crib Goch...
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/107066820

From summit of Crib Goch until battery died at 1:47pm. (This shows the decent to Nant Peris)...
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/107066801

Got to the summit of Foel Fras at 3:56pm, and down to the car at the top of the Aber road at 4:45.

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