/ To whoever removed the cairn on Blencathra

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ruttingstag on 01 Jun 2012
sometime between monday morning and wednesday morning this week.


Why?

Explain yourself.
AdCo82 on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag:

was it an official cairn???

Not me by the way, just wondering!!!
birdie num num - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag:
Sorry about that. Mrs. Num Num wanted a cairn for her rockery.
highclimber - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag: Why? did you get lost?
toad - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag: The first real life Troll on UKC. Reckon it moved itself
ruttingstag on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to An Triubhas: the summit cairn on Hallsfell top.
ablackett - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag: Shut up, there hasn't been one there as long as I have known. Just a concrete base plate.
ruttingstag on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to highclimber: no, i could see all the way down Hallsfell into Gategill so it wasn't too much of an issue, just added a bit of time onto my bgr recce as i started to run towards the gategill fell top and then back again.

Having been up 48 hours earlier and seen a cairn i kind of expected it still to be there. However, somebody had removed it and then covered the round monument on the ground with a layer of the stones from the cairn. Had it been clagged i might have had a few issues.
ablackett - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag: Wow, I think you might be serious. Good luck with the BGR!
andyathome - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag:
Sorry: whats a BGR? Bob Graham Round?

Is a cairn more or less going to affect your time?

Oh - and people removing random cairns from the fells/hills. Is there an issue?
Timmd on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to andyathome:
> (In reply to ruttingstag)
> Sorry: whats a BGR? Bob Graham Round?
>
> Is a cairn more or less going to affect your time?
>
> Oh - and people removing random cairns from the fells/hills. Is there an issue?

It can be if they're relied upon. Not making a judgement about this though.
Timmd on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Timmd:...ie them being relied upon.
andyathome - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Timmd:
How do you rely on a cairn? Unless it has a sign on it saying 'I'm the cairn that marks the junction of the paths between x and y' what does it actually tell you?

Sure there are many historically significant examples but the vast majority of piles on rocks on the hills are just geological graffiti that tell you very little at all really.

highclimber - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to andyathome:
> (In reply to ruttingstag)
> Sorry: whats a BGR? Bob Graham Round?
>
> Is a cairn more or less going to affect your time?
>
> Oh - and people removing random cairns from the fells/hills. Is there an issue?

I often take a stone or two away from unnecessary cairns. it annoys me that people think there is a place for moving rocks into messy piles on footpaths.
ruttingstag on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to andyathome:

question 1 :yes

question 2: it did by about 5 minutes. (which might not seem much, but these nav checks all add up)

question 3: 48 hours earlier i had stood on the same spot and seen a pile of stones next to a round concrete base plate. if i'm stood there 48 hours later and a cant see any sign of a pile of stones and no round base plate (because it had been covered with the stones) then i will start to question whether i am in the right place. The building and destroying of cairns is no issue to me. It was the fact that whoever removed the cairn, or somebody else, then covered up the base plate.

Timmd on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to andyathome:

They 'can' mark the starts of safe paths/gullies if they're amongst other gullies which aren't safe, and can be regularly spaced along the sides of some paths which can help in fog.

Obviously there's a risk in relying upon them though. Just so it's clear i've not learnt to navigate yet, so this pretty much all i've got to say on navigating and cairns.
JJL - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag:

I like cairns.

I accept that they may, at times be aesthetically wanting.

However, for me (and I don't claim this is "right" nor hope to project it onto anyone else), cairns are more than just waymarks or eyesores.

Cairns share a special place in my heart with drystone walls as the songlines of our hills. They trace the line with a story that, tantalisingly, I can always hear, but not to distinguish the words. A thousand thousand pairs of feet have walked, trudged, skipped, dragged, and floated this way. Heavy and light rucksacs have been carried or given a ride. The walkers have been purposeful and aimless, groped for the next mark or seen a hundred miles, been returning wearily or setting out in hope.

When I cast a stone onto the cairn it is a mark of community with all the others who have come before and will come after. I am making a primal connection and acknowledging the shared humanity of all who venture into places that can be both beautiful & benign and harsh & hostile. The clatter and click of the cast stone is the next stanza of a staccato melody that has played through the ages.

I hear the echoes of past steps; they urge me to step forward - I too am here.



But, yeah, Snowdon's a bit of a monstrosity and that.

ablackett - on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag: Ok, I'm going to say this again, historically there has never been a cairn there. I have run over that top about 20 times and I admit, looking for that concrete base plate is tricky in bad vis. I imagine whoever took the cairn down was aware of this.

I have done the same with cairns that grow on the bob graham round route.

The fact there isn't a cairn at the top is one thing that makes blencathra special, let's keep it that way. Well done to the chap who took it down.
Gordonbp - on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to ablackett:
I remember some years ago I made a traverse of Cul Mor in the clag, descending Longstaff's Chimney (which had an interesting little step half way down)and when I got down to river level, to walk back to Achiltibuie, the was a path like a motorway, and it was the only path so there was absolutely no way of getting lost, even in fog or the dark, with a cairn about every 30 yards.....completely absurd and unnecessary....
Etak - on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag: I was up on wed night (supporting a bg) and the concrete base was clearly visible - I have no memory of their ever being a Cairn there in the last year, cairns sprout all the time on the bg route and, as others have said they need removing or before we know it the whole thing will be a dot to dot route.

If you need a cairn to find the top of blencatthera the bg will be a challenge!
ruttingstag on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to Etak: it was clearly visible because i removed the stones covering it!

yes it will be a challenge.
Ridge - on 03 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag:
> (In reply to Etak) it was clearly visible because i removed the stones covering it!
>
> yes it will be a challenge.

Well done for clearing the baseplate. As others have said, I've never seen a cairn there and can see why someone removed it, but hiding the baseplate was a daft thing to do. Good luck with the BG.
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victorclimber - on 03 Jun 2012
In reply to ruttingstag: because we dont like them and are on a mission

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