/ Just bought a massive rack - sell stuff or keep?

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professionalwreckhead - on 21 Aug 2012
I've recently started leading trad, and as I was about to begin buying my own gear, I spotted a very good deal on a brand new rack.

I did the maths and it made financial sense to buy the whole thing, but there's a heck of a lot of gear there that I suspect I'm not going to need for quite a while (and some of it may never be placed).

So, I can't decide whether to sell some of it while it's still brand new, or keep it for when I progress and find myself climbing routes where I need more gear. I don't want to be kicking myself for having got rid of gear I will soon need, but i also don't want to be hanging on to expensive bits of kit which won't get used.

I've got:

A full set of DMM dragon cams 0.0 - 6
Set of DMM off sets 7-11
Set of DMM hex 1-4
DMM wall nuts 1-11
Set of wild country rocks 1-14

I mostly climb at Polldubh and Ardnamurchan at the moment, however the main reason my girlfriend and I started climbing trad is to prgress to climbing bigger mountain routes (we both come from hiking/scrambling backgrounds).

At the moment I feel that I could get away with one full set of nuts, a few common sizes from the other set to double up, sizes 1-4 cams and the hexes.

So, from those who are more experienced...would you consider it worthwhile to keep it all, or is some of it just totally unnecessary and it's going to sit in my cupboard (like that size 6 cam for example!)? I really don't know what my future "intermediate" rack requirements are going to be, I only know what I place at the moment.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated (I'd rather sell stuff I don't need while it's still new).
Gazlynn - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

Doesn't look that bad to me and I guarantee you if you start selling stuff the very next climb you will need it :-)

If you got it at a good deal and can afford not to sell any items keep them for a while and see what you really need / use.

I have a rule that if I don't use anything for over a year then it gets sold / moved on.

Having said that I will offer you 30 for the offsets ;-)

cheers

Gaz

ChrisBrooke - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead: Sounds like a pretty good basic rack to me. Should cover most of your current and future needs as you progress in the game. Keep it all! Just get yourself some brass offsets and you'll never need to go shopping again.

In all seriousness, one set of nuts, a couple of hexes and four cams will probably be enough for most things. But when you're getting into longer sea-cliff adventures, or craving specific routes (with an essential size 6 cam placement making it possible) you'll be glad of the extra gear.
JimboWizbo - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead: I think it's definitely in everybody's interest to sell me the smaller cams!
Styx - on 21 Aug 2012
I'd keep it all, none of it is overly specialized and sounds similar to the typical rack I'd carry on long multi-pitch routes (minus a couple of hexes and cams).

No two routes require exactly the same gear, it's always wise to tailor your rack so that you're not lugging up more than you need to. Having more gear to choose from at the start of the day isn't going to hurt you but you may well regret selling the size 6 cam one day when you're stood at the bottom of a horrible offwidth facing a massive run out.
GrahamD - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

Am I the only one that immediately thinks "dodgy" when I see 'deals on brand new kit' ?
Tom Last - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

I'd keep most of that personally. The larger cams are not that specialist in the Dragon sizing iirc, at least not like the Wild County 6. Sooner or later they'll allow you to do otherwise bold routes in relative safety, especially if you like cracks. 2 sets of wires can be useful, but above about Rock 10 might be covering the same sort of ground as you are with the smaller hexes?
Either way, sounds like a good, but not excessive rack.

Have you got any quick draws? Maybe swap the larger wires for QDs if you don't have many.
Kemics - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

You've got a pretty comprehensive set of passive pro there. I wouldn't really ever take it all up a single route. However, having the option to take the appropriate gear is great.

I have a set of DMM torque nuts which I take on most climbing days, however, they spend more than 90% of the time in my bag when I'm climbing. But on the odd occasion I fancy something more masochistic like off-widthing or wide cracks, it's nice to still have a decent range of gear.



oh and definitely keep the cams!
professionalwreckhead - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Styx:

Thanks for all the replies.

Good to know that it should all be useful at some point, on that basis I'd rather keep it!

It just seems huge compared to the relatively small rack I'm currently carrying for Diffs at Polldubh!

No dodgy bargin fortunately, it was bought from a long term sport climber who is also a regular at my local indoor wall. He had planned to get into trad this summer but he can't climb at all for the foreseeable future due to ongoing surgery.

Can't wait to get some scratches on the gear, it's like turning up to school with bright white trainers on!!

Rich M - on 21 Aug 2012
I'd get rid of 1 set of wires, the other set and the offsets will be more than enough!
quiffhanger - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

Keep it all. A double or even triple set of wires is really useful. You might not carry them all that often but you'll probably find yourself having a sweet spot where you want to double up.

Roughly, I find the harder I climb, the smaller the wires I need to double up on become :)

Plus nothing worse than setting up an abseil and avoiding the bomber rock 10 placement coz you think you might need it on the route.

And your bound to either get a few stuck or drop them in the sea. Again, spares v useful.

-ross

-ross
stonemaster - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead: Keep. Good luck.
professionalwreckhead - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Southern Man:
>
> Have you got any quick draws? Maybe swap the larger wires for QDs if you don't have many.

No quick draws as yet. Was planning on picking up some DMM Phantoms (thinking 3x12, 3x18, 4x25 plus a few Phantom karabiners on some nice long slings)? Does that sound reasonable? I'm currently climbing on a single rope, so planning to buy quickdraws on the longer side.
Jamie B - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

I double-up on 1-10 for multi-pitch VS, and am happier if I have doubles of up to size 6 for anything single-pitch and tricky (extra weight is minimal).

The only thing I'd think about offloading would be either the hexes or the biggest WC rocks (11-14). They essentially do the same thing and I'd be surprised if you ever carried both.

I hate off-sets and can't seem to place them, but others love them. See how you get on I guess?
In reply to professionalwreckhead: If it's for everything, I'd get something slightly bigger than phantoms for quickdraws. Actually, I'd probably buy 5 phantom QDs and 5 bigger QDs (Alpha Trads look jolly good for instance) and use the phantoms on the gear end and the bigger krabs on the rope end of the QDs.

If you have tiny wee hands you can probably ignore the advice re: the phantoms!
stujamo - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead: Yeah, keep.
Al Randall on 21 Aug 2012
John_Hat - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

Keep the lot. You will need it. OK, a size 6 cam isn't going to be used much, by in my experience, when you need it, you *really* need it.

It's not like the gear is going to be worth less in 6 months, so I'd say keep the lot, see what you use, re-evaluate in 6 months.
professionalwreckhead - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Al Randall:

Thanks for the advice re phantoms and slings.

I've actually just spotted a good price on both Spectre 2 biners and quickdraws (5.50 and 12 respectively). I've used Spectre 2's before and quite like how they feel.

Is it worth picking up, say, 3x18cm + 3x25cm quick draws and then 6 biners to make up some slings? Would that give me sufficient flexibility for most straight forward routes on a single rope?

Al Randall on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead: It depends how confident you are but if you are climbing mountain routes in Scotland you will very soon realise the benefits of double ropes and the short comings of single. Don't forget if you have a few more slings/draws it gives you a little more flexibility on stances and that your second will need these when he or she arrives at the stance and so will be using up your supply for the next pitch. Mountain routes also lend themselves to spikes for runners and jammed boulders for threads so I would say you may need a few more. You will in any case be using more to minimise rope drag and preventing nuts from lifting out. Personally I wouldn't bother with the 25cm draws and use additional sling draws instead. I carry 4 but then I haven't used single rope technique since about 1968 on trad mountain routes. Even with doubles on a long mountain route,climbing near my limit, I would probably carry 6 x 60cm slings, a couple round my shoulder the rest made up as sling draws and at least one 120cm as well as probably 8 x 18 cm QDs. I find 25 cm QDs with a krab at each end an irritating length to rack but this this a very personal view.

Al
professionalwreckhead - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Al Randall:

Thanks, Al. That makes sense and is really helpful.

A progression to double ropes is most definitely our next step. The priority for both of us at the moment is getting completely comfortable with the fundamentals (gear placements, building belays, sorting ourselves out at the stance etc) and getting some good mileage under our belts.

Once we've got a slick operation going, then I plan to add in the doubles. My girlfriend is keen to take this part slowly (i.e. me leading), and given that she's holding the other end of the rope, I'm keen to make sure she's comfortable with how quickly we are progressing!!

We already have a 60m single, and enjoy routes like The Gutter at Polldubh, which is great multi pitch practice for a novice leader and doesn't present any issues on a single rope.

I've already got a load of 30-240cm slings which we have used for setting up top ropes, so I'll pick up lots of Spectre 2 biners and some 18cm quickdraws.

Presumably the Spectre 2s will also be suitable for the cams and for racking gear?

Thanks again for the advice, it's greatly appreciated.

xplorer on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

Where did you get the deal from, and how much?
professionalwreckhead - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to xplorer:

Private sale from a climber at my local wall. He needed a quick sale, I turned up with cash and after the usual dancing around price, I paid 350 for the lot.

The cams alone would have cost me 300-400, so I figured it was a pretty good deal :-)

Al Randall on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:
> (In reply to Al Randall)
>
> Presumably the Spectre 2s will also be suitable for the cams and for racking gear?
>
Again this is a personal thing. I wouldn't use them for racking gear because if you put say 6 wires on one they will tend to bunch together and hang awkwardly. For me this makes it more likely that I would lose a wire. I use BD ovals as everything hangs nice and neatly, other people hate them. Another thing to consider is the shape of the gate opening. If it is the traditional style the wire is likely to catch on it. Some modern gate openings are designed to specifically prevent this. Some people see the snagging as a good thing as they are less likely to lose a bit of gear others see it as a nuisance You should look and decide for yourself.

Al

professionalwreckhead - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Al Randall:

Many thanks to all those who replied, your advice in particular was really helpful Al.

I have ordered the last few things I needed for my own rack:

5 x multi coloured DMM Spectre 2 for the cams
6 x BD ovals for racking
6 x 18cm Spectre 2 quickdraws
2 x 25cm Spectre 2 quickdraws
2 x 12cm Spectre 2 quickdraws
4 x Mammut 8mm x 60cm slings

My plan is to carry the 18cm quickdraws to use as they are.

I had intended to buy a load of Spectre 2 biners to make alpine slings with, but considering Rock and Run are doing the full quickdraw for only 12 (and 2 biners alone were going to cost about that anyway) I decided just to pick up a few extra quickdraws in the shorter and longer lengths which I can then dismantle and make alpine slings from if needed (hence the 8mm x 60cm slings).

Plus, this has the added benefit of keeping with the grey and gunmental biner colours so that I'm consistent which which biner I'm sticking my rope in.

I'm absolutely buzzing now! Can't wait for the weekend! (If anyone spots a guy fumbling about with lots of shiny gear whilst shaking like a dogs leg on a Diff in Glen Nevis this weekend...come and say hello ;-))





xplorer on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

Very good price sir
ads.ukclimbing.com
teh_mark - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

If you do decide to sell bits - specifically if you decide that you really could do without the offsets - I'll quite happily take them off your hands :)

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