/ Differences between guidebook grades??...
So what do we all do when for example a rockfax grades a climb at 6c+ and a climbers club guide grades it at 7a?? Which tick do we/should we give ourselves. Personally I started thinking to use the grade of the newest publication, however this strategy soon flawed as earlier additions of the rockfax displayed the same grade as the later addition, where as the newly compiled (but older than new rockfax) states a higher grade as do the climbers club updates. Is it right to tick it as the highest to satisfy ego, or to tick it as the lowest as that's how easy someone else thought it was...?
Ego says the higher grade, honesty the lower.
Back in the day, Apocolypse on Chee Tor used to be given E6 but it then became common knowledge that it was going to be downgraded to E4 in the next guide so lots of folk went out and grabbed it as the E6!
Routes do change and if the route is a relatively new one then the grade may not have settled down but this should be sorted out by the next edition of the guide.
You climb it as the lower grade, as that makes it easier, then log in as the higher grade, as that makes it more impressive.
"Apocolypse on Chee Tor used to be given E6 but it then became common knowledge that it was going to be downgraded to E4 in the next guide so lots of folk went out and grabbed it as the E6!"
I always think the grade to take for any climb is the one in the last definitive guide published.
> So what do we all do when for example a rockfax grades a climb at 6c+ and a climbers club guide grades it at 7a??
Always go for the highest grade recorded anywhere, at anytime by anyone
Why not use the grade you thought it was worth?
"Why not use the grade you thought it was worth?"
Always start from the basic premise that guidebook writers could not grade flour and treat all printed grades as a basis for negotitation only.
The only time this is not true is when you collect loads of E points on a route you actually find quite easy, in which case the grade is absolutely correct and you are climbing like a Rock God.
> Why not use the grade you thought it was worth?
I put a route into my offline logbook at the grade it gets in a guide which it felt most like to me. So, for example, Lucky Strike is in there at E1, even though it's E2 in the latest definitive guide (I know not why). Anything else is just cheating isn't it?
What is certainly not allowed is claiming a route at the grade it felt to you if it hasn't been given that grade in any guides. Young Mr Oswald got quite upset when I told him he wasn't allowed to claim any E-points for the sandbag HVS he led on Lundy the other week that was clearly actually E2.
Apparent and cobblers!
The new cc guide says, was 5+ but due to the loss of a hold is now 6a , yet rockfax haven't mentioned it or adjusted the grade to suit in their newest guide.
> The new cc guide says, was 5+ but due to the loss of a hold is now 6a , yet rockfax haven't mentioned it or adjusted the grade to suit in their newest guide.
Name and grade please?
Where do you get this stuff from? Have you looked at a Rockfax guide recently?
Then the new rockfax came out, it has the new crags etc, but they got rid of all the TRAD routes. So now when out on a dawn till dusk day I have the dws, rockfax and cc guides, haha. I'll look up the specific route discrepancies if you would like?
So how did you come up with the idea that we never change the grade of any route in any of our books, once published?
... er, yes please.
Ermm; do you realize how long it takes to produce a new guide, and how much work is involved? Doesn't make a scrap of difference whether it's a Rockfax or a CC guide, or any other for that matter.
Rockfall or loss of crucial holds is nearly always reported by someone on this and other sites, or you could, as have a number of generous souls in Devon and Cornwall, compile your own on-line mini-guide and put it out on the Web. Would help pass the time before dawn and after dusk.
So what I meant by the grades haven't changed is the new rockfax (of the top of my head as guides are at home) has slim fingers revenge as a 7a I think and cc guide has it 7a+.so has the grade changed from 2005 rockfax grade and if so why wasn't it put in the newer rockfax which came out after the cc guide, or if not why has cc printed it as 7a+?
Yes, Rockfax and UKC are the same company.
No, we don't synchronise our grades with other guidebook producers, maybe we should, be we don't. Hence our grades are a reflection of what we think the routes are based on our opinions, and those of the votes on the databases at the time of publication. In our case every route is assessed between each edition. The changes may not be that numerous but that may be because we are getting it right.
Slim Fingers' Revenge
Rockfax Database - http://www.rockfax.com/databases/r.php?i=3387
UKC Database - http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=13185
Both of which suggest that 7a is fine
So thankyou for your answer, it confirms that you don't believe the grade has changed on some routes, you think its an accurate representation, which to me states I should take the lower tick.
Tick it as whatever grade you thought it felt like.
Ukc / rockfax arguement to one side, grades are in the eye of the beholder
I take the grade as what oi believed it was whenI climbed it. If I re-ascend the route when it gets a different grade and I believe it to be true then I'd have climbed it at 22 different grades.
The grade only matters when its ay your limit.
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