/ NEW ARTICLE: Morocco Rock
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4974
Nice one Emma, looks stunning, i'll be there next year. I'd better buy the guide.
Looks like an interesting guide. Surprised to see no mention of the Oxford dominated group who were exploring the area extensively around the same sort of time. Be interested to know how much duplication there is between this new guidebook and the one they published 2-3 years back...
Presumably this new guide is also based on the Amandiers new-routes book so they'll cover exactly the same ground?
I know Steves website tried to be definitive and so his guide presumably was much the same. I don't know all the crag names mentioned in the article, so there are a few I recognise but many I don't, possibly areas further afield not covered in Steves guide or perhaps development that has been kept quiet and out of the new routes book, or perhaps a lot of new development since Steves guide.
I suppose all will be revealed when the two guides are in the shops next to each other. I think the fact that Steve et al don't even get a mention is the bit which gets me, almost as though they (and I think they did the first new routes in a lot of those valleys like Anfantizar etc) aren't worthy of mention...
But yes, it does seem a bit churlish not to even mention that there is another guidebook, or to acknowledge any of the hundreds of new routes put up by the Oxford group.
I did find "Emma and Paul have taken over the work..." to be something of an airbrushing job, though!
The new guide is a big improvement on Steve's for a number of reasons. The 'Tizi' escarpment which was left out of Steve's guide is now included. This is a great sector with some of the best routes in the whole region. Paul and Emma have been able to benefit from feedback from an increasing number of repeat ascents of various routes and so a more accurate view of grades and quality is presented in their guide. There has been a rapid rate of development even in the short period since Steve's guide. The new guide is bang up to date.
If you're into trad climbing and especially trad new routing its a great area to visit and I would thoroughly recommend Paul and Emma's guide.
Guide arrived the other day, really well put together. Me and my mate are going out at christmas, cant wait.
The reference is to the fact that they met some Cambridge climbers out in Tafraoute during one of the many trips when they were researching Steve's guidebook - though I wasn't on that particular trip and so have no idea if Emma and Paul were actually among them. It's not particularly helpful to the thread, anyway.
However, my comment was purely in reaction to this particular article on UKC, which name-checks the Cicerone guide (which is to a different area), but makes no mention at all of a lot of previous work upon which Morocco Rock must be largely based.
I understand that there are commercial concerns and this article is essentially a long advertisement for a competing product. But it still feels churlish to me.
> Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4974
Hi, Has anyone a topo for Akchour.
Your comment implies that Morocco Rock is based on Steve Broadbent's earlier guide. This is not the case. The authors researched info for the guide independently, using original route descriptions from the first ascent logbooks at the Amandiers hotel and at the Kabah Tizourgane. They also received information directly from many first ascensionists (including Steve Broadbent who provided information and useful comments). All photo topos and maps are original.
Sorry to blather on but I do think you're comments are a little unfair
The main thing though, is that it is a great area for trad climbing and the new guide hopefully will attract more climbers to enjoy it.
Which was/is Bens website? When I went to the area in 2008/9 (I forget which!) the only source of information that I found online was Steves website which was in effect an online guidebook to the entire area now covered by his guidebook. I'm surprised and embarassed to have missed an entire alternative source of information!
If your "curtailed and rather biased historical in the previous guide" comment refers to Steves guide then I'm afraid you will probably know better than I - I visited before the guide came out so have only ever thumbed through it in shops, mainly to see whether our new routes were there or not and what the pictures look like. Given this comment and your dismissal of so many of their routes, I suppose it's hardly surprising that you didn't deem them worthy of mention in the advertorial (adverticle? Hard to know what the right word is) above.
I am curious to see the guide when it hits the shops round here. It was always somewhere I said I'd go back to, although goodness knows when (unless I'm unemployed come March, in which case who knows...).
PS: Apologies for the Tabs joke, which is after all not even particularly funny. And I don't think your guidebook is overpriced.
Not Seth I'm afraid, though an easy mistake to make.
Apologies for typos..doing this from my HTC abroad..should be Tizi Escarpment.
Not meaning to be dismissive at all w.r.t article..was done in a hurry and I can't always mention every first ascentionist and their routes..and it is my article and my favourite climbs! Just putting climbers right about their 'facts' that's all..the Anammer reference was simply because I cannot get excited about these rather short routes in Morocco (relatively speaking) so I'm hardly going to write about them with enthusiasm! And Steve has done some really good routes out here..if you notice two of his classics are on the list of recommended routes at the top of the article. I didn't mention mike Mortimer either or Jim fotheringham or Dan donovan or Neil Adams etc etc all who have also put up huge amounts of fantastic routes (there are just too many)
Yes, get back out there..still loads to do!
As for the guide..yes I wrote the article to help publish our new guide, of course, which Steve, along with many others (who we approached..yes we approached to get accurate information and to be inclusive, w.r.t historical, photos etc to endeavour to create the best guide possible..but I see no need to advertise Steves guide especially here..he does plenty of that all over ukc and his website..and his article on Morocco/his website/info on ukc etc did/dies not advertise Bens site and I'm sure will not advertise thr brand new up to date guide! Quite frankly, don't see why he should and I certainly would not expect it.
And by the way, if you read pauls recent article on Morocco, written about a month ago, I think he mentions steves guide..it just depends I suppose on what your writing about and what you are focusing on at the time.
Go and do Leaving Las Vegas and Scimitar Ridge and then Gritstone Fugitive and you may get what I was on about above.
From UKC's point of view, we love people who contribute great articles like this. Emma was easy to work with and helped at all stages of the article. She has also agreed to help maintain the UKC Logbook crag database for Morocco as a result of us discovering that it had a few gaps in it, which is great.
The other guidebooks are mentioned in the side-bar of the article. Emma received no payment for this article hence we are perfectly happy to support her book by giving that a little plug.
We have a review of the book which we will be publishing shortly.
A bit pissed that all the routes i put up in the Yeravinalaf area don't get a mention.
> A bit pissed that all the routes i put up in the Yeravinalaf area don't get a mention.
Where is that Mark? I've not heard of it.Is it in the area covered by the new guide - ie North side of the Anti Atlas? Did you write the routes up in the new route books in The Amandiers Hotel or at The Kasbah Tizourgane?
Emma texted me and approved ;)
There's no place for any suggestions of air-brushing or basing anything on anything else, other than the information in the new-route books at the Hotel Les Amandiers in Tafraoute, and the Kasbah Tizourgane. Sifting through this information, collating historical details and putting together the first guidebook to a new region (which Morocco Rock is for the Tizi Escarpment) is a massive, thankless, and often frustrating task.
To put things into perspective, there were almost 200 new routes reported within 6 months of publication of Moroccan Anti-Atlas North, so the increase in route numbers should hardly be a surprise.
As Emma has already eluded to, there was plenty of collaboration and no hard feeling between us, particularly on Mike's brilliantly written historical information!
Can we stop the bickering and just go climbing? Tafraoute season is already upon us!
Emma - sorry - I can see I've been a bit snappy. I'm in the middle of giving up smoking and am a little on edge! My apologies.
Clearly Steve is right and there's nothing to be gained from bickering. So please don't think that's what I'm doing ...
... but since you mentioned it twice, I did just want to point out - in an entirely friendly, by-the-way-did-you-know-that manner - that my claim about "hundreds of routes by the Oxford group" really isn't an exaggeration. You could discount not just Anammer, but also Ksar Rock, the Eagle crags and the whole of the rest of the Afantinzar valley, and the figure would still be in the hundreds (i.e., 200 or more). Including Anammer and Ksar Rock obviously increases the number further. Steve on his own probably accounts for more than half of that total, but the "Oxford group" actually consists of at least 30 different climbers from the OUMC who have visited the area since 2007.
Obviously it's impossible to tell simply from the names of the first ascensionists whether they are affiliated with a certain club or not, so I'm not suggesting you should have known this. And the information is unrelated to either your guidebook or the article. So this is just for future reference ...
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