/ Good news about Dunira sport crag
If you approve, would you "like" the Guidebooks page. The SMC sport guide is due out in April.
"Sport Climbs Guide author Andy Nisbet and the guidebook production assistant have been busy this weekend, rebolting Dunira (Perthshire, near Comrie). It is now an eclectic mix of the original expansion bolts and the new glue-ins. The view from the crag is as amazing as ever."
Which is good news and I'll be tempted to go now.
>"The SMC sport guide is due out in April."
Unfortunately even everyone that was instrested have long since died due to prelonged holding of breath. :¬)
...but the photography looks great! ;)
> >"The SMC sport guide is due out in April."
> Unfortunately even everyone that was instrested have long since died due to prelonged holding of breath. :¬)
I 'think' it was at the launch of the original Stone Country bouldering guide, (or maybe Chains?) that the sport guide was announced for later that year. Wasn't that 2004/5 :-)
Nice one for the rebolting and the guide.
But the fact that I'm saying April rather than "soon" is more definite.
And I hear its due out sooner.
And did they hope that Dunira was going to be rebolted, is it in unbolted, or did they just get lucky?
Yes but it is noted that you have cunning avoided mentioning in which year.
7a max... A nice idea but unfortunately wont be of much use to dedicated sport climbers. I'll continue holding my breath...
> 7a max... A nice idea but unfortunately wont be of much use to dedicated sport climbers. I'll continue holding my breath...
That may be, but I would like to point out that although it's a selected guide focussing on crags with a good grade spread, all the routes of whatever grade are included on the topos, with routes up to 7a+ getting detailed descriptions
> That may be, but I would like to point out that although it's a selected guide focussing on crags with a good grade spread, all the routes of whatever grade are included on the topos, with routes up to 7a+ getting detailed descriptions.
Why have you left out descriptions of the harder routes? To save space and bulk? To make people buy volume 2?
I'm afraid I won't be buying it until I know what the score is!
> That may be, but I would like to point out that although it's a selected guide focussing on crags with a good grade spread, all the routes of whatever grade are included on the topos, with routes up to 7a+ getting detailed descriptions
And it does have the added bonus of actually being published, unlike the SMC guide which has been on the cards for more years than I care to think about without ever appearing. I think I first submitted a photo for it about 8 years ago.
The score is that it's a guide to Scottish sport climbing that covers almost all the crags and details all the routes up to F7a+, and it's due out in mid-November.
I can only apologise, that it wasn't my fault, and that it is happening; April 2013 is the expected date. All the topos are drawn (around 120), the text typeset, action pictures chosen (around 70 but we don't know the total yet until the layout is finished), and since it was written by 16 of the most active sport climbers in Scotland, then it will be accurate.
The development of the sport guide has accelerated considerably since Andy came aboard, and I can testify to the amount of work he has put into it. I'm confident that it will be a high quality affair, and worth waiting for the spring for - can't see me doing much bolt-clipping between now and then anyway.
But might find a market amongst abject punters? I gather there are quite a few of us...
> The score is that it's a guide to Scottish sport climbing that covers almost all the crags and details all the routes up to F7a+, and it's due out in mid-November.
Yes, I know. And if that is all I know, I won't be buying it!
The aesthetics on the sample pages shown on the 7amax website make my eyes bleed out torrents of bile in horror, but the imminent existence of a guide, particularly to a lot of the recently developed but frustratingly secretive sport crags, makes it an important purchase to me. Of course since none of the many hundreds (near a thousand?) of sport routes I've done have been over 7a, I'm obviously not a dedicated sport climber, but I still want the information....hell I'm pretty keen to get on more Scottish sport this weekend if it's dry...
Rob, we left out descriptions of routes above 7a+ as these routes were not the scope of the book. They are indicated on the topos with grades however and mentioned if they are particularly good. This kept with the aims of the book and allowed us to more effectively layout the pages in portrait style for the routes we covered. There is not going to be a 2nd version with the harder routes. The guide has a slightly different style aimed at the average weekend climber and visitor. The Scottish sport scene has needed a guide for a long time, many routes have seen neglect and I for one got tired of using scraps of paper etc. We hope this guide will inspire sport climbers to visit Scotland's lesser known but equally nice crags. Seb
I think both volumes look worthwhile and I reckon I'll be buying them, (they're aiming at diffrent markets I supsect). Well done to both teams for the undoubted effort put into both publications.
Might sound tight, but I think I'll wait until the spring (when I might actually be doing some sport-climbing) and be able to choose between the two.
tbh, i'll probably not look at either a helluva lot, but I feel somwhow obliged to support the efforts of others in the climbing community who've put in a lot of effort to prepare the guides.
Absolutely. Don't worry I'll stick with a normal version just wear sunglass ;) Is it out yet??
I take it there's no plans to re-bolt the pile of choss in glen lednock! ;-)
Andy wasn't on board with the guide until more recently and he never likes to blow his own trumpet, but since taking over, he has rallied around all the original contributors, visited sport crags to make sure all topos were correct (I know this because I was dragged on soggy days around Benny Beg, Rob's Reed and Balmashanner) and he's put in a lot of effort visiting other crags with other folk. He's put in a lot of damn hard work to get this guide up and going (with initial hesitation from some of the original contributors).
Now that Andy has taken it over and says it will be ready and out then I have no doubt that it will be ready and be out. I also reckon it will be far more definitive than this other guide and like someone mentions above, routes only up to 7a won't be much use for a dedicated sport climber.
Couple of thoughts-
Will be funny climbing at some of these places with other teams. So many of these crags have been off most folk's radars for a long time.
Will close-by trad crags suffer? probably some will and some wont. I should think these sports guides will become best sellers for the climbing wall youth
You people have rather perculiar definitions of what a dedicated sport climber is. I would have assumed it would be more about the dedication, i.e. the inspiration and passion for sport climbing, rather than about a grade.
I think it's great that the SMC are working on a full definitive sport guide, and that Andy (who may or may not be a dedicated sport climber!) took over and focused on getting the job done - however the 7aMax guide should be out first, and will be useful at a time of year when trad climbing is pretty arduous.
As awkward as it might be for the SMC, guidebook competition is likely to be a good thing - having witnessed the effect of Rockfax in the Peak District, encouraging the BMC to up their guidebook game to a world-class level (admittedly it is probably somewhat harder in the wet, disparate, and insular arena of Scottish climbing!)
I should think these sports guides will become best sellers for the climbing wall youth
Hah! Yes, will probably become Rebekah's bible!
But yes, I was wrong to criticize the other guide, I'm sure both will be good.
Is that something like Sophie's choice?
I think I'll stick to odd bits of paper if I do any sport climbing in the next few months rather than buy an expensive partial guide when a comprehensive one is on the way. If 7aMax looked good (I am sure it does!) and 7bMin were in the pipeline, I might have bought both.
There are amazingly "punters" out there who enjoy "bimbling" on crags, and have no intention of scaring themselves to death trying to "climb" over-hanging crags with no positive holds.
Without opening the can of worms that is UK-trad vs Euro sport routes, why not encourage sport climbing in the UK of all grades?
> Without opening the can of worms that is UK-trad vs Euro sport routes, why not encourage sport climbing in the UK of all grades?
Absolutely. So produce a guide covering all grades - Oh yes, that is what the SMC is already doing!
Does that mean I can open the can of worms ;-)
> Does that mean I can open the can of worms ;-)
Fell free. Nothing to do with me.
Yes there are plans, but not mine. It has been agreed that the bolts won't be removed in the future. It was going to happen in the autumn but didn't. Hopefully next year.
No. The estate are happy with climbers (but not cars) so not them. Whoever it was seems to have been a climber, but not one skilled at ropework because it was the easy bolts which were chopped as well as ones near the bottom. We hope that sport climbing has become more accepted.
I could be mis-remembering my crags, but I'm pretty sure that the bolts at Dunira were chopped by a relatively well-known Scottish climber because he had done a couple of trad routes on the crag years beforehand but hadn't recorded them until after the sport routes were added, in effect retro-bolting his routes. There was a lengthy discussion on the now defunct Scottishclimbs website at the time.
That was Lower Lednock, and he's agreed not to chop them again when they are replaced. I don't think Dunira was him as it was a much less professional job.
Well done for the guide work and the re- bolting. Looking forward to the guide next year. Hope the random chopping incidents are a thing of the past.
Talking of random chopping incidents, did anyone ever find out why the bolts at Upper "sport and trad living side by side and the flagship crag of not being the thin end of the wedge" Cave Crag get chopped a few years back??
I didn't ever hear of anyone 'owning up' to it. Pretty destructive and pointless. Sounds like it's been re-bolted to a better standard though.
Yeah, it's a strange one, possibly the most off-target act of anti-bolting around.
> Talking of random chopping incidents, did anyone ever find out why the bolts at Upper "sport and trad living side by side and the flagship crag of not being the thin end of the wedge" Cave Crag get chopped a few years back??
There was a heated debate on scottishclimbs about bolting an existing bold trad crag somewhere near Aviemore. The locals were arguing that it hardly got visited otherwise and had already spoken to the FA's who had given permission for retro-bolting. There was also the usual strong vocal contingent of "if you can't climb it as is don't bolt it". That was when I pointed out that it was an elitist argument because if it was applied evenly then upper cave/tunnel wall shouldn't have been bolted and everyone was happy with those. The upper cave bolts were smashed within a week or so, whether they were really linked I don't know.
As far as I was aware, one of the (trad) FA's of Farletter crag was very strongly against the proposed bolting at that time.
The Cave Crag thing looked like an act of vandalism to me. I think the vast majority of climbers have no problem with sport co-existing with trad at low lying crags.
> As far as I was aware, one of the (trad) FA's of Farletter crag was very strongly against the proposed bolting at that time.
Ah, I didn't know that.
Indeed they are, it was just strange timing.
There was no ill feeling at Farletter because all parties were consulted. Opinions varied but that's fair enough. I still hope to bolt it, but not without agreement.
Well done guys.
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