/ Rope too short to lower off.

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Paul Hy - on 16 Nov 2012
Going back to Spain next year with intention of doing some long mountain routes so taking 50 metre halves, thatís what I have for UK. We may also be doing some single pitch stuff. On routes up to 25 metre simply lower off as normal, tie dead rope ends together just in case! But on 30 metre single pitch with typical bolts and chain belay point, whatís the lower off method.

Iíve come up with this:
1. Secure yourself to anchor(s) with cows tail or similar.
2. Attach rope to harness (so you donít drop it) before untying it from harness.
3. Thread it thro ring and tie the two ropes together using overhand knot leaving 60cm tail.
4. Untie other knot from harness.
5. Insert both ropes into belay plate and attach to harness.
6. Attach French prussic if required.
7. Double check system.
8. Remove cows tail from anchors.
9. Abseil off.
10. Pull rope.

Suggestions/improvements please.
rurp - on 16 Nov 2012
In reply to Paul Hy:
1. Buy new rope that is long.
2.Don't die doing all that other stuff.
scottie390 - on 16 Nov 2012
choose alternate method of returning to the bottom of the crag, ie top out, bring up your second and walk off?
gear boy - on 16 Nov 2012
In reply to rurp: agree, but yes I have done it his way lots, and it works fine, its just a pull through like in the alps or bigger stuff, this is normal practice to Ab on 2 ropes
gear boy - on 16 Nov 2012
In reply to gear boy: p.s note 3 should be tye 2 overhand knots one against the other to stop risk of knot rolling,

this is now the recomended method
Jamie B - on 16 Nov 2012
In reply to scottie390:

Tends not to work so well on your average Spanish single-pitch sport route. I'd go with the previous suggestion - sport climbing on half ropes is less than ideal even if they are long enough!
Jamie B - on 16 Nov 2012
In reply to gear boy:

> note 3 should be tie 2 overhand knots one against the other to stop risk of knot rolling,
> this is now the recomended method

By who? I had no idea climbing was so structured and managed.

In reply to rurp:
>
> 2.Don't die doing all that other stuff.

All? Clip in, thread, abseil.


Chris
gear boy - on 16 Nov 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead: them....;-)
Robbo1 - on 16 Nov 2012
In reply to Paul Hy: This is fine IMO - I have used it before. It is a faff though and if you are planning to do any more than a handful of sport routes over 25m I'd invest in a longer rope.

I agree with gearboy's point about the knot though.
gear boy - on 16 Nov 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead: on a serious note

http://www.needlesports.com/catalogue/content.aspx?con_id=75b7be92-45dd-474a-9229-9c9e00a60c7f
bottom of the page

testing found double over hand safer, this has been "good practice" for using overhand knot for a while now i think,

I abbed multiple abs on a single overhand and slippage was only minor after nearly 5 or 6 abs, but nowadays i use a double overhand as its called
Ciro - on 16 Nov 2012
In reply to rurp:
> (In reply to Paul Hy)
> 1. Buy new rope that is long.
> 2.Don't die doing all that other stuff.

3. Leave other stuff you might want on the holiday behind so you don't bust the budget airline's stingy baggage allowance with your three ropes.

4. Wish you'd stuck with the original plan when you don't have the other stuff you wanted.

I suppose a 100m Joker or similar would cover both jobs, but I see no reason why the OP shouldn't use the system above to save the cost of one of those... it's going to add, what, an extra minute at the top of the climb?

The only problem I'd foresee is it could make stripping steep routes a bit more tricky.

martinph78 on 17 Nov 2012
In reply to Paul Hy: I would do as you have suggested and can't see a problem with it (apart from some faff factor). I'd probably use two cows tails as well, just so I have redundancy in the system at all times once you untie from the rope. Probably overkill and I've done without many times but...
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john arran - on 17 Nov 2012
In reply to Paul Hy:

Sounds entirely reasonable to me, except that you might want to consider doing 4 before you do 3 - will save no end of contortions ;-)

Also, if the route is traversy or overhanging have your second pull you in by tugging on the bottom of the ropes.

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