/ Making spare picks for out of date axes...

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beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
I'm thinking of making some picks for an x-15. It got me thinking as to whether there would be others who might want copies of originals made for them. All it requires is a CAD package, an original to copy and a bit of waterjetting time plus a bit of time with a hand file to finish them with... would just use some EN24T plate which is what BD use for theirs... in theory you could make any shape you wanted too, for old vertiges etc... there wouldn't be an issue with CE as axes aren't PPE and it would just be with the disclaimer that you know it's a replacement and may not be as strong as the original (although I don't why they'd be weaker TBH...) would their be interest as I could just sling a load of dfx's onto a sheet and send them off - you could finish them your selves if you like... Obviously BD require the Groove, but I can't imagine that'd be too taxing...
adam11 - on 27 Nov 2012
Could you make some gearbox selector forks for my Hurley-Pugh motorbike?
beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to adam11: Dunno. What does it look like? With in reason yes...
Camm on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann:
tried ebay usa? and contacting BD, though I'm pretty sure when you factor in labour, it would be cheaper to buy new axes lol
beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to danrock101: Nah, I mean picks you really can't get anymore. For example the classic BD pick, the Alaska etc. or like I say vertige picks, or pulsar and quasar... you know picks which people want for their cherished old axes which would keep going if only they still had metal left! Cutting out blanks on a water jet if you were doing a bunch of them would be 2 tenths of bugger all, the material also wouldn't be very much, and I've got the cad package to generate the DXF shapes... I could buy in a job lot for people and then if it was popular, it'd just be a case of reordering once you had all the shapes...
beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann: In fact I very much doubt that each blank would cost more than 5-10 quid...
In reply to mike kann: do you really use water to cut steel plate? That's so cool. Although laser cutting sounds even cooler. Either would make an excellent James Bond disposal device if you strapped him to a conveyer belt that took him needlessly slowly towards the cutter, giving him time to escape, save the girl and throw you (as the baddy) in the the tank of Piranhas. Talking of which, Piranha picks? ;-)
beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to TobyA: Yes. You can cut through pretty thick plate with it... for alu you can cut thicker than with laser... think it might be the same for steel, although for thick steel you get a bit of a taper on the edge... thin stuff isn't a problem though.... and you don't want to use laser as it would screw the temper of the steel... the idea would be to just generate the part shape, and cut it from pretempered steel, so you don't need to heat treat afterwards. As for Piranha picks, yep, they wouldn't be hard either. I guess the only differences would be steel thickness.
Cameron94 on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann: Would you be able to make petzl axtar picks? Interested if you could!
andic - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann:

that is a really interesting idea,
beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Cameron94: I don't see why not, but why would you bother when you could just buy them from petzl?
Cameron94 on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann: They cost a fortune! Cheapest I've seen them available in the uk was 36 each
beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Cameron94: To be honest, I think if I was making picks for old axes none of the manufacturers would care, if it was for current axes then I suspect they would roast me alive, unless I changed the pick shape fairly radically, and then its anybodies guess how they would perform... I dunno really - I guess there wouldn't be anything they could do to stop me, but I would be very surprised if they didn't try... might have to look to see if there are design registrations etc...
davidbeynon - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann:

If you want to make vertige extreme picks and need patterns I have 2 unused spares in my store room, waiting for the time I batter my originals enough to need them.
smuffy on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann: You would do much better making bulldogs or ice hooks. I made a couple last year by hand and it took me bloody ages although there is some real satisfaction to be gained by making your own gear. Someone on here photocopied their bulldog which I then used as a pattern.

The link below shows BD ice spectre which is very similar.
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-gb/shop/climb/ice-protection/spectre-ice-piton/
beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann: Although I just realised the Aztar IS an old axe and no longer made... hmm...
beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to smuffy: I don't know whether bulldogs are counted as PPE, if they are then I'd need to test them before I could sell them which is very very costly. Plus I'd need to sort out slings on them which I just don't have the facilities for, unless I just left them with a hole for an extender...
Fiskavaig on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann: I think there will be a market for the old Quark picks in a year or two ( the orange handled model) i for one will be interested.
beardy mike - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann: Well OK guys, what I would need to do is start collecting patterns. So, if you have a new pick which you could scan and send to me, with a few reference dimensions, or even better pop an old pick in the post to me so that I can accurately measure it as well as a scan of the new one to give me the shape, then I'll soon have a library of the relevant shapes... I guess what I could do is then either sell them as a blank for you to finish, or finish them myself at a cost. I dont know what that cost would be - I guess I'd have to make a few to understand the amount of time involved... if the demand was great enough I guess I could make a small machine to finish them a bit quicker and less crudely... maybe I even try to produce picks which place and remove efficiently so that you guys don't need to do this yourself?
Landy_Dom on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann:

I got an x-15 with original pick

just thought I'd throw that in there.....
ads.ukclimbing.com
The Ex-Engineer - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann: FWIW I'd certainly pick up a couple of spare picks for original Vertiges if you were making any...
beardy mike - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann: Right, I've done some initial enquiries and it looks as though we might be on. Ive got to locate the right thickness - so far I've found a stainless steel type 420 in up to 3mm steel - we need 5. Apparently this grade is slightly more forgiving than tool steels like en24T and holds an edge well, with the added bonus that it will not rust... Apparently I can laser cut as well which brings costs down, and I could use a wet-stone grinder to finish the blanks on. So... if you're interested, let me have those scans!
davidbeynon - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann:

I will send you vertige extreme scans and measurements late this week or early next week.
Captain Gear - on 29 Nov 2012
Would you be able to make picks for current BD axes for a fraction of the cost?
beardy mike - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Captain Gear: I don't know what the cost of the picks will be yet... I doubt it'll be a fraction of the cost, especially if you wanted exactly the same pick, but a lower tech one with less bevels could be cheaper especially if you are just thrashing them on spongy Nevis ice... Let me get a little further down the road and ill come back to you on it...
CurlyStevo - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Fiskavaig:
> (In reply to mike kann) I think there will be a market for the old Quark picks in a year or two ( the orange handled model) i for one will be interested.

why not stock up now and then easily sell later if not required?
simondgee - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to mike kann:
thing with vertiges is the picks are of bit fat and blunt instrument for hard ice against the head weight... A thinner pick (and shim) at the head would reinvigorate them for bullet proof ice like the alps where their ultra lightness is pretty handy.Id be interested.
unclesamsauntibess - on 01 Dec 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to mike kann) Well OK guys, what I would need to do is start collecting patterns. So, if you have a new pick which you could scan and send to me, with a few reference dimensions, or even better pop an old pick in the post to me so that I can accurately measure it as well as a scan of the new one to give me the shape, then I'll soon have a library of the relevant shapes... I guess what I could do is then either sell them as a blank for you to finish, or finish them myself at a cost. I dont know what that cost would be - I guess I'd have to make a few to understand the amount of time involved... if the demand was great enough I guess I could make a small machine to finish them a bit quicker and less crudely... maybe I even try to produce picks which place and remove efficiently so that you guys don't need to do this yourself?

You seem to be doing a lot of "guessing" - do you really know what you are doing.....................?

Laser cutting will not draw the temper out of the parent metal sheet - it will not be hardened or tempered at all. That needs doing after any shaping or cutting is done.
davidbeynon - on 04 Dec 2012
In reply to simondgee:

There was a thinner version of the vertige pick available on some of the later models. I have one of each pick type both on my axes and on my spares.
In reply to mike kann: I guess that you are aware that the current BD picks will fit the X15?

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