/ Dry tooling on Dartmoor...

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Crazy Climber - on 29 Nov 2012
Ok, so first off, I'm standing by for a barrage of abuse for daring to ask this...

But. Does anyone know if there are is any dry tooling been done on Dartmoor? Or what the general feeling is towards it? (That is specific to the area, not the usual generic hatred of dry tooling)
In the spirit of ethics, there is so much up there that either hasn't been climbed or isn't recorded, that it would be very easy not to 'ruin' any 'classic' routes but still find something new and interesting.

What do people say?
Wainers44 - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber: Loads, Haytor a real favorite
Mr Powly - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

I'd be up for some
Sean Kelly - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber: Had to check the date on this post, but it's not April. Have you any comprehension of the damage that dri-tooling causes? Let alone suggesting an outstanding trad area such as Dartmoor. But if you posted just to get us riled then you succeeded!
Crazy Climber - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Wainers44: Do you know if there is any routes recorded anywhere? or do you you tend to just follow the 'normal' lines?
The Lemming - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

You are aware of the established Troll rules?
dave frost - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber: They'll hurt you bad, really, don't do it. Talk on the internet is one thing but there's a reason they have the pentangle on the floor of some pubs down there ...

Cheers
Dave
Cheese Monkey - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber: I will smash your axes through your eyes
Mr Powly - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to others:

I don't think he's talking about going and scratching his way up Low Man you know. I for one would be well up for going and top roping some dirty lines in a quarry somewhere.
bouldery bits - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

Has the Xmas trolling comp started early?
The Lemming - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to bouldery bits:

I was going to ask last week. If it has, then this chap has broken the rules.

Loser.

I am quite proud of my achievement a few years ago with in excess of 800 responses. I think it got close to 900. Shan't say what the subject was, as its been done to death.

I also thought that we had to go out into the wild and cast our nets on other forums too?
Wainers44 - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to dave frost:
> (In reply to Crazy Climber) They'll hurt you bad, really, don't do it. Talk on the internet is one thing but there's a reason they have the pentangle on the floor of some pubs down there ...
>
> Cheers
> Dave

Total exageration as normal.

Unless you are a towny, a virgin, a witch, a "boulderer", a rambler, an incomer, a sheep worrier, or cornish, you have absoluterly nothing to fear...
tom290483 - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
> (In reply to Crazy Climber) I will smash your axes through your eyes

Charming.

muppetfilter - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to tom290483: I know, Ramming them up his arse would be a better idea.
Cheese Monkey - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to tom290483: Dont worry, I'll strap my crampons on after and stamp down somewhere that will make his eyes water.
Mr Powly - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

Keep those knees jerking and you'll wear out your cartilage.

Anyone up for actually talking about whether there is somewhere suitable? It would be nice if it turned out there was some suitable grimy quarry no one minded about.
Crazy Climber - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber
:
So, the question was ignored as usual. I think the general hatred towards dry tooling has been done to death here. Hence asking specifially about the area.

Of course I'm not going go scratching up some of the awsone routes down here. Believe it or not, I do enjoy climbing. But there are so many tors out there that are either not climbed, or are covered in moss etc and no one would want to climb. So, why not develop some of these...

Or if you like we could just wait for a bit of frost and call it mixed climbing...would that be more acceptable to the masses?
needvert on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
> (In reply to tom290483) Dont worry, I'll strap my crampons on after and stamp down somewhere that will make his eyes water.

Intimidation via threats of violent genital mutilation, I second the 'charming' comment.

As a general rule, in UKC threads the dry toolers come off as the more civilized bunch. Certainly the group I'd rather hang out with.

Luke90 on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:
I was inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt and consider it a genuine question until you felt the need to question whether the (clearly joking) suggestion of HayTor was on the normal lines or not. That made me think you were just out to wind people up.
Crazy Climber - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:
So in summary then. Mistakenly I thought I was asking a fairly straight forward queston (I even pointed out that I knew dry tooling in general has been abused to death on here so asked people to stick to the question).
The haytor comment is fairenough, lack of judgement on my part. But shock horror, I'm not perfect! That and I really don't get typed scarcasum.

Fortunately tough the nice friendly community of UKC (which I presume was set up to help climbers) has no dissapointed by tellking me the square route of FA about the question I asked. Why try to be helpfull when you can be abusive with threats of violene?!
There was me thinkging the climbing community were generally a pretty freindly bunch
ads.ukclimbing.com
Cheese Monkey - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber: Oh God are you actually serious about going and scratching up some beautiful natural granite tors? Leave them alone! Just because there are no rock routes doesn't mean they can be trashed. There are a few old quarries that spring to mind where noone would care.
Jamie B - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

Just to muddy the ethical water a bit more: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=36507

Enjoy your bun-fight!
Trangia - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:
> (In reply to Crazy Climber)

> scarcasum.

> dissapointed

> climbing community were

> freindly

I don't believe you are for real.

You might be forgiven the other obvious typos made in haste, but the above samples indicate that you should be concentrating on your English lessons a bit harder rather than trolling, and, as has already been pointed out to you, breaking the rules of trolling.
In reply to Crazy Climber: The places where dry-tooling has become accepted are the result of what looks like some hard graft on the part of the developers. Besides anything else, for it to be worthwhile it looks like it has to vertical to overhanging, and all the places seem to be old quarries as most natural rock someone has rock climbed at some point.

So, get the maps out, start talking to some locals and see if you can find somewhere. Then start schmoosing to get access agreements; then go and clear all the rubbish that will have invariably been dumped there to show you're actually doing something positive for the local area. Then clear dangerous loose rock from the top. Then spend lots of your own money/raise a bunch of money to buy bolts, lower-offs, glue, bits etc. Then spend many hours doing the tough work of actually drilling cleaning and gluing the bolts in. Wait a day for the glue to dry and then off you go! Figures of 4-away to glory! Easy. :)
Wainers44 - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead: Good picture...nice clean line to the right, free of all that horrible ice stuff...get your tools out boys.... (that doesnt sound right?)
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:
> (In reply to Crazy Climber
> )
> So, the question was ignored as usual. I think the general hatred towards dry tooling has been done to death here. Hence asking specifially about the area.
>
> Of course I'm not going go scratching up some of the awsone routes down here. Believe it or not, I do enjoy climbing. But there are so many tors out there that are either not climbed, or are covered in moss etc and no one would want to climb. So, why not develop some of these...
>
> Or if you like we could just wait for a bit of frost and call it mixed climbing...would that be more acceptable to the masses?

Serious suggestion: why not email the national park authority, outlining your plans to develop these mossy unused tors, I'm sure they will be able to advise you on the best options

Cheers
Gregor

Tom Last - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

Hi Crazy Climber.

I'll take you up on this:

"But there are so many tors out there that are either not climbed, or are covered in moss etc and no one would want to climb. So, why not develop some of these..."

You started off talking about quarries, then you mentioned tors, which is it to be? I'm splitting hairs a little, but generally speaking 'tors' are the natural outcrops on top of the moor, whereas quarries are, well quarries.

You are incorrect in there being moorland tors of climbable length that "no one would want to climb on", because I want to climb on all of them. I'm not being facetious, I really do and have climbed on a great deal of them that you might think are neglected as have many others.
Please do not climb on ANY of the Dartmoor tors with axes.

As for the quarries, you'd be surprised at the number of the quarries that do have established trad routes in them, so which quarries are you referring to exactly? There are also a few quarries without established trad routes in them, but that people definitely have their eyes on. Personally I wouldn't have a problem in certain shitty quarries, but it's not up to me and you'd need to check there's no existing routes first and presumably contact the BMC + landowner etc.

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not being elitist as I myself am shit, but given that you a clearly a bit unfamiliar with the area (not knowing about Haytor etc), but are presumably local and obviously a climber, then no being rude but might want to ask yourself whether you're actually any good with a pair of axes and whether you really think you have the ability to dry tool anything without damaging the rock significantly.

If you are good, I suggest a better idea all round would be for you to follow Jamie Bankhead's lead from that photo and just wait in hope that something has ice down it this year. There has on occasion been ice routes on Haytor and Holwell Torand I expect stuff could form in Swell Tor and Foggintor after a wet summer and possibly the odd waterfall here and there. Also there are a few turfy routes around too.

Either way, you're not going to find a great deal of people in favour of dry tooling the moor.

Good luck, HTH.
Tom
ice.solo - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

the rules:

you are completely free, as a member of a democratic society that prides itself on its stances against the unjust prosecution of others to drytool to your hearts delight EXCEPT for the following:

classic routes

well known routes

established routes

locally important routes

routes near any of the above

routes not near any of the above

routes that famous climbers FAd

routes that famous climbers walked past

routes that climbers who have heard of famous climbers walked past

routes on fragile rock

routes on good rock

routes on shit rock

routes on rock

crags where people climb

crags where people may want to climb

crags where people dont want to climb but one day might

other than that, go anywhere you please and enjoy yourself. most drytooling venues are easily found by looking out for the stumps of burnt crosses and the smell of sulfur.

if any of that sounds unsavoury, theres a barely visited area in the east where drytooling is both acceptable and understood, its adherants left unbothered: its called europe.


Wainers44 - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to ice.solo: very comprehensive....err viaducts????
ice.solo - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Wainers44:

good man. someone heres thinking straight. AND viaducts!!
TMM - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

Like yourself I am surprised by the neagtive reaction to some on this thread.

There is a great dry tooling venue that has developed into something of a 'crag X' amongst the South West cognesscenti.

Check out SX 542739. The landowner is very accommodating and is happy for you to access the quarry via her private track and park close by. To ensure the current access is maintained please ensure you visit her house and let her know your intentions.

Good luck!
Boulderdash86 on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber: I too support you in regards to non climbed areas for dry tooling - there are places around south London where dry tooling is practiced but its usually on flaky chalk cliffs or places where trad or sport haven't had any first ascents.

BD
Big Lee - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

To the OP (apologies to the one trick pony rock climbing only group, this isn't for you).

Would look for a suitable venue, discuss with any key dry tooling/mixed activists in the general area. If the venue is plausible then maybe discuss with the local BMC rep, at a local BMC meeting, and with more local activists (contributers to guidebooks for example) and go from there. If there are any existing routes at the given crag then you would need to speak to first ascensionists and get approval. Doubly triply so if the bolted line would travel close by. If there are any existing rock routes then I would probably not consider the crag for dry tooling if it was me as it will probably be far too controversial and likely alienate people even more towards dry tooling. Even if the routes are overgrown.
Crazy Climber - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber:

Oh well, two sensible answeres out of about 30 odd isn't bad I suppose.

Without looking, I presume that grid would be for Vixen Tor would it? Really helpful that, thanks!
GrendeI on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber: Has any of the falls along Lydford Gorge ever frozen?
GrendeI on 30 Nov 2012
Crazy Climber - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to GrendeI: Doubtful, but I don't know for sure. It's worth looking into for if it did actually get cold enough down here
Tom Last - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to GrendeI:

Would take one hell of a freeze wouldn't it. It must do to an extent, but I doubt The Cauldron or anything has ever frozen possibly. Bet the NT would love that!
Jamie B - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to TMM:

Just out of curiosity, and with absolutely no prejudice either way, who actually uses the DT crag? Winter activists? Not being funny, but I'd have thought that anyone that motivated to actually train for winter would, er, live somewhere else!
Tom Last - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:

He was joking. It's a link to Vixen Tor.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Jamie B - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Southern Man:

I see. I'll throw that question at the OP then - why train for something you'll rarely get the chance to do, or do you see it as an end in its own right? Serious question, not criticising, just interested.
TMM - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Southern Man:


Well a quarry close by, but close enough to be on Mrs. A's land.
Mr Powly - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:

The reality of this particular venue aside, I would definitely use a dry tool crag if one existed. I'm pretty keen on winter climbing but have found myself in the SW for various reasons. I'll still expect to get up to Scotland for a good few weekends, but doing a bit of dry tooling would do no harm for my technique and confidence on mixed routes, so perhaps I'd be able to make better use of the weekends I get? And most importantly it would be fun.
Tom Last - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to TMM:

Oh sorry, I thought you were being disingenuous.

You say the landowner is accomodating, by which you mean "Mrs A"?

Genuine question, is this serious, she doesn't mind folk DTing her quarry, but won't have climbers on 'her' tor? Or are you yanking my chain?
TMM - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Southern Man:

Let me make it clear to all. I have no knowledge or experience of any form of climbing in the quarries on Mrs. Alford's land. I suspect that given her attitude towards the use of Vixen Tor it will be a brave or reckless climber that does a recce looking for a DT venue within her curtilage.

On a brighter note there has been winter climbing on some on the overspill from some of the reservoir dams, Low Man and also Canon Teign Falls in the Teign Valley.

I am struggling to think of locations on Dartmoor where DT would be welcome and accepted by either the land owner or the outdoor community.
Tom Last - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to TMM:
> (In reply to Southern Man)
>

>
> I am struggling to think of locations on Dartmoor where DT would be welcome and accepted by either the land owner or the outdoor community.

Nor anywhere steep enough to be worthwhile.
Asterix - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Southern Man:
Clearly yanking your chain. The quarry to which the grid reference relates is also in a SSSI.
Wainers44 - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Asterix:
> (In reply to Southern Man)
> Clearly yanking your chain. The quarry to which the grid reference relates is also in a SSSI.

Most of the ones on the moors perifery or on semi enclosed land are. A more sensible question from the OP which may have got at least a few helpful answers might have been "DT venues in the South West?" Putting Dartmoor (ie a National Park) in the question was only going to lead one way!!
Crazy Climber - on 30 Nov 2012
Ok, so being so specific as to ask about Dartmoor and not the whole south west is just another of my many downfalls.
But, seeing that you have been so kind as to point out another error in my ways, you could also have been that helpful from the off and if you knew of any south west venues, suggest them back then.

Jamie Bankhead - A serious answer Believe it or not, I love being in the south west, and have a job, family etc here. I also love winter climbing now that I am getting involved in it. But to simply pick my life up and move somewhere for my hobby isn't what you might call practical, let alone realistic. So yes, I am motivated to train for the winter because to go somewhere where conditions are good is a bit of a mission and a gamble: having to book holiday in advance hoping on good conditions and half to a whole day traveling each way. So when I do get there it's nice to make the most of it.

So, if anyone knows of anywhere in the south west please suggest them? Failing that, we could all carry on wasting our time if you'd rather
iksander on 30 Nov 2012
Wainers44 - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber: If you really are serious, for a start there is ice on the moor at least a few times every year. Holwell Quarry had the starting of a good ice cover this morning and although too thin as yet its getting there.

If I can think of any suitable for DT I will let you know.
Crazy Climber - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Wainers44:
> (In reply to Crazy Climber) If you really are serious, for a start there is ice on the moor at least a few times every year. Holwell Quarry had the starting of a good ice cover this morning and although too thin as yet its getting there.
>
> If I can think of any suitable for DT I will let you know.

Thanks for this little gem.
Where is the best place to look for records of these illusive winter routes on the moor? I have heard stories of the waterfalls at hartland freezing. But I wouldn't know where to look to find out about any of them.

Any tips for either ice routes or dry tooling would be much appreciated. Yes this is a serious post. And no, I'm not going to go and abuse sheeps tor, Haytor or any other venue with a pair of axes.

deepstar - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to iksander:
> (In reply to Crazy Climber) Box Freestone quarry http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyondthefence/3744181854/

I have abseiled down the Cathedral Shaft,is the old Lambretta still at there?
iksander on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to deepstar: Didn't see a Lambretta down there, lots of interesting industrial junk though (some which we clipped as gear)
Cheese Monkey - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to iksander: Ah the cathedral! Must get down there again, need to explore the south side. Properly massive place!
spooky - on 01 Dec 2012
In reply to Crazy Climber: I do believe that Dartrock have a couple of dry tooling routes set up on one of their lead walls.

Surely to keep all happy why not consider approaching the climbing walls in the area, if they would be willing to establish a few drytooling routes on their walls.

This may lead to more interest from others, and perhaps lead to establishing a local comp for dry tooling to add some fun to it, but also help people to maintain or develop their skills ready for when they are able to get to the mountains for real.

Just a thought.
Tricky Dicky - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to deepstar:
> (In reply to iksander)
> [...]
>
> I have abseiled down the Cathedral Shaft,is the old Lambretta still at there?

I remember the old Lambretta, but it must have been the late 1980s when I saw it down there, so probably buried beneath piles of junk now.


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