/ Boulder or route?

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madmats - on 05 Dec 2012
When does a boulder problem become a route? Or, when does a problem get a route grade?

Where I usually boulder, there's a lot of traverse problems more than 15 moves long and feel more like short routes than boulders.

My theory is, if you can shake-out mid-problem, then it should get a route grade....
Monk - on 05 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:
> When does a boulder problem become a route? Or, when does a problem get a route grade?
>
> Where I usually boulder, there's a lot of traverse problems more than 15 moves long and feel more like short routes than boulders.
>
> My theory is, if you can shake-out mid-problem, then it should get a route grade....

Does that mean that the Green Traverse is E1 6b?
madmats - on 05 Dec 2012
In reply to Monk:

Ha! Maybe so, but it's relatively short for a traverse. I was thinking more the really long ones. Also they'd obviously get a french grade, as no real danger. Although, GT does have some nasty boulders underneath, so E1 6b for a padless ascent?
Kevin Woods - on 05 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats: Simply when the adjectival grade becomes relevant to indicate the seriousness?
madmats - on 05 Dec 2012
In reply to Kevin Woods:

Sorry? I don't understand. Is that an answer to my original question or are you poitning out the fact that I suggested adjectival grading is only for seriousness?
Jonny2vests - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:

Use whatever system makes most sense. Don't overthink it.
JimboWizbo - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats: Maybe it depends on the style of the first ascent
Al Evans on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats: When I were a lad the perceived wisdom was that 20ft or 7mts was a route anything less a problem. The boundaries seem a bit fuzzier these days.
jkarran - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:

When your approach/attitude toward falling changes. It varies form person to person and can be influenced by the equipment and team you have with you. Ultimately it makes no difference, it's all just climbing.

jk
Monk - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:

I suspect that most people are misinterpreting the original question - I think that Madmats is asking when a sport grade would be more appropriate than a font grade on traverses.

And I think that this is a fairly reasonable thing to do for long traverses, as long as it is clear which system is being used. It's certainly been applied at places like Raven Tor, and Font used to have different grades for traverses too (does it still?).
SuperMike64 - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:

I think it's more what you decide and how you climb it. But at the end of the day no matter how you decide to grade a route.. it's still gonna be just as hard no matter what :)
Jonny2vests - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to Monk:

Yes, maybe he means font traversing grades, where font 6A ish = font traverse 7A. Similar in definition, but not to be confused with sport grades.

So three systems which all use the name alphanumeric base... Come on France, sort it out.
madmats - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to Monk:
> (In reply to madmats)
>
> I suspect that most people are misinterpreting the original question - I think that Madmats is asking when a sport grade would be more appropriate than a font grade on traverses.

Yep, that's what I meant, though you phrased it better! And I know, really, who gives a toss, I just thought I'd join the band wagon and start another pointless thread :)
madmats - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:

Is that right John? That font 6A ish = font trav. 7A? I thought both grades were a bit closer, more like font 6A = font 6B traverse.
madmats - on 07 Dec 2012
Just had a look at the rockfax grade comparison table (found here):

http://www.rockfax.com/publications/grades/

It suggests a sport grade for traverses. Font 6A+ equalling French 7a. Is this french 7a different to a Font 7A traverse grade? Think I'd only give a sport grade for a really long traverse.

Note: I must be really bored to bother thinking about this at the start of the weekend!
Jonny2vests - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
>
> Is that right John? That font 6A ish = font trav. 7A? I thought both grades were a bit closer, more like font 6A = font 6B traverse.

Yeah, F6A / 6A+ is about FT 7A.

What I'd like to know is the relationship between Font Tr and French sport grades. People in the past have said they are about equal, which begs the question, why bother?
madmats - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:

Weird, I have a bouldering guide (albeit a german one) which says Fb. trav. is basically Fb.bloc + a +! If you know what I mean. E.g. Fb.7a is Fb.tr.7a+, and so on.
Jonny2vests - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:

Yeah. It seems to vary a lot.
Jonny2vests - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:

Yeah, it seems to vary a lot. Google images throws up a few tables that contradict quite a bit, so I'm not so sure anymore.

Hey, just looked at your photos and realised who I'm talking to! How's it going mate? Greetings from Vancouver, not sure if you knew, but we moved about a year ago. Hope the wife & bairns are well.
AJM - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to Monk:

15 moves or so is definitely pushing into route grade terrain for me. If you add up how many hand moves the hard bits of a lot of UK sport routes are, they're often less, even for routes that are classed as pe rather than bouldery.

My friend told me once that a boulder problem route is usually somewhere in the region of 3 grades higher French than Font - seems to roughly hold for Weedkiller (7A+/B = 7c+ I think it sometimes gets?) and Ousal Low which is 7A and someone told me once was 7b+/c. Apparently it holds true for boulder problem routes as well as route/boulder hybrids...
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mick.h on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:

Good question......there's plenty of "routes" that are also in bouldering guides. I guess its all a question of style - rope or no rope?



madmats - on 07 Dec 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:

All good thanks mate. Sounds like you're having a great time over there! Say hi to the missus from all of us.
stroppygob - on 08 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats: Anything I'm feard of falling off is a route. Anything I'm not, is a boulder problem.
Bulls Crack - on 08 Dec 2012
In reply to stroppygob:
> (In reply to madmats) Anything I'm feard of falling off is a route. Anything I'm not, is a boulder problem.

What if its a well-protected route?
Jonny2vests - on 08 Dec 2012
In reply to Bulls Crack:

Or a problem above a shitty landing. Boulderers break bones more often than those doing routes.
yeti on 08 Dec 2012
In reply to madmats:

bumbly response:- i like a boulder problem to be, you know, a boulder
Jon Stewart - on 08 Dec 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:

I'm terrified of falling off both well protected routes and boulder problems with bad landings. And high boulder problems with good landings. And poorly protected routes...
Jonny2vests - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Trad grades for you then. Apparently.

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