/ hkw many screwgates for a trad rack

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wjcdean - on 09 Dec 2012
Hiyo,i'm relatively new to trad climbing and am slowly building up my rack, I was his wondering how many screwgates you carry? It seems to me that worst case scenario you'd have 4 anchor points connected by 2 slings to give 2 main points to tie into. This would require 6 screwgates, but from looking online people never seem to advise carrying that many. Just wondering what peoples opinions were on here

Cheers
Will
Muel - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

I just carry 1, and then just tie the anchor with the rope. Works fine for single pitch routes.

I tend to build my anchor like this:

1. Top out.

2. Place 2/3 pieces of gear.

3. Leave the rope tied to my harness and just clip to the gear, then back to a clove hitch on my screwgate. Repeat for each piece of gear.

4. Job done.
neuromancer - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

One to clove to, one to use as autoblock in my reverso, one/two to connect me to the/an anchor, fifteen for any possible SPA'er watching.
jimtitt - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:
Two, one for your belay device and another one.
wjcdean - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

Whoa, quick responses, thanks! Just to clarify, I have 2 hms, 1 to belay from and 1 to clove hitch to when anchoring. But I was taught to always use screwgates on anchor points, so if you've got 3 nut anchors, you'd put a screwgate through each of those and tie in in the usual way with clove hitches on an hms on the rope loop. but I was also taught that where possible you should connect anchor points with slings to a main point,which would also then need another screwgate.

Or am I way off here?
Edradour - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

I carry loads. With modern technology they are virtually the same weight as snap gates and far more versatile. Apart from quickdraws and for racking my gear I don't really own any snap gates.

I should add that I do more mountaineering than cragging.
tlm - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

I like about 3, and another for my belay device and another for my prussics. So that is 5. But once again, I guess I'm more used to mountain routes...
Skyfall - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

I think that novices are often told to use screwgates to all the main pieces of gear on a belay and on your main attachment point etc so this can make you think you need loads of them when multi-pitching in particular, but this is often overkill. It rather depends how you build your belay but if you generally equalise 2 or 3 bits of gear with a sling you will often be clove hitching to them to avoid shock loading if oen fails and so you can safely use snap gates rather than screwgates. if you keep your belay under some tension as well then the rope is v unlikely to do anything strange and unclip from anything. I used to carry loads of screwgates but now tend to take no more than 3 even on multi-pitch outings and use snap gates and/or deconstruct spare quick draws for this purpose. You can also use back to back snap gates in place of a screwgate if you wanted extra security.
Edradour - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to JonC:
> (In reply to wjcdean)
>
> I think that novices are often told to use screwgates to all the main pieces of gear on a belay and on your main attachment point etc so this can make you think you need loads of them when multi-pitching in particular, but this is often overkill. It rather depends how you build your belay but if you generally equalise 2 or 3 bits of gear with a sling you will often be clove hitching to them to avoid shock loading if oen fails and so you can safely use snap gates rather than screwgates. if you keep your belay under some tension as well then the rope is v unlikely to do anything strange and unclip from anything. I used to carry loads of screwgates but now tend to take no more than 3 even on multi-pitch outings and use snap gates and/or deconstruct spare quick draws for this purpose. You can also use back to back snap gates in place of a screwgate if you wanted extra security.

There's a lot of 'ifs' in that logic though and back to back snapgates require double the amount of kit. Surely better, novice or otherwise, to carry screwgates which can be used in place of snapgates but not vice versa?

Jamie B - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

Expect some contradictory answers here, it seems to be one of these things that everyone has their own pet opinion on.

For what it's worth, I like to carry as few as possible, as they are heavier. You can achieve this by using the rope (not slings) to equalise belays, tying back to yourself using a figure-eight on the bight, using snaplinks on all but the strongest point of the belay, and not racking all your slings with screwgates.

I'd have one on a 120cm sling, one on a 240, two spares and a couple of spare snaplinks. Assuming that my partner had a couple of his own along that would be ample.
Jamie B - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to JonC:

> I used to carry loads of screwgates but now tend to take no more than 3 even on multi-pitch outings and use snap gates and/or deconstruct spare quick draws for this purpose.

Arrggghhhh!!! pet hate! Deconstruct my quickies and I'll hurt you! I prefer to go down the line of fewer QDs but more short slings and spare snaps that I can construct a variety of solutions with, including extra QDs as required.
Skyfall - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:

I only deconstruct my own if needed and like you I tend to carry spare snap gates rather than screwgates. I was trying to set out other options for the OP.
Jamie B - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to JonC:

So like myself you're a reconstructonist rather than a deconstructionist? Respect.

One of my more memorable sense of humor failures was on discovering that my partner had robbed me of 3 QDs for quite a long pitch by using each of them as a belay attachment. The wounds are still raw..
Skyfall - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:

That would hack me off quite a lot too lol
The Ex-Engineer - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: There are three fairly simple guidelines that I think help to decide where you need to use screwgates:

- if the carabiner is going to be out of your direct line-of-sight
- if the carabiner represents a single point of failure (i.e. if it fails there is not some sort of back-up)
- if you are connecting it to your rope loop (where a snap would have a high chance of being knocked open)

If you bear these in mind when you consider possible situations, things will hopefully start to makes more sense.

Instructors with groups almost always rig belays using screwgates but they need the extra security because they not able to guarantee that they can keep them in sight the entire time. However that is just not something that is relevant to normal lead climbing when the belay is only in place for 30 minutes and you are tied to it the entire time.

As others have said, you can certainly climb with each climber in a pair just carrying ONE screwgate each (and plenty of spare snaps) but I don't think it's an ideal situation especially when it comes to doing a multi-pitch abseil retreat. I work on the basis of TWO screwgates EASILY AVAILABLE for EACH CLIMBER. This then allows the leader the flexibility of having two screwgates for each belay.

It is worth bearing in mind that if the screwgates are racking slings, they aren't easily available at belays. When climbing as a pair, out of the 4 screwgates mentioned above, I want at least 3 racked loose with perhaps only the 4th screwgate racking an extra long (180cm/240cm) sling. All other slings are just racked on wiregates.

Finally, it is worth considering whether you may want to have screwgates to clip stuff like shoes/windproof or prusiks/ad tat etc. to the back of your harness. Having dropped a shoe the length of Cloggy, I now always use screwgates rather than wiregates if I am clipping anything bulky my harness.

HTH
jwa - on 09 Dec 2012
I was told you can never have enough screwgates for multi-pitch trad climbing.
Jamie B - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to jwa:

> I was told you can never have enough screwgates for multi-pitch trad climbing.

That is clearly untrue. Imagine if you went climbing with 400 of them.

Gwilymstarks on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
> (In reply to jwa)
>
> [...]
>
> That is clearly untrue. Imagine if you went climbing with 400 of them.

and your point is?

4 on the 1st belay
4 on the second belay

and 392 bomb proof runners which on a 39m pitch would be one every 10cm. Now I accept that some would need to be revolvers to reduce drag but I think that safety should come first.
Jamie B - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Gwilymstarks:

You have been taught well and will live to a ripe old age, which at that rate of progress you will reach before the belay..
David Coley - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: unless I'm using a reverso in guide mode, I carry 2, one of which is on my belay device. At the belay cams already have a snap on them, if I need one for a wire, I strip a sling draw. Job done.
GridNorth - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: 2 is all you need but I carry 3 in case the opportunity presents itself to use a direct belay and having 3 can make it a little less faff when abseiling. 1 to stay attached to the anchors, 1 for the plate and 1 for the prussic.
jkarran - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

One plus the one on my belay device generally.
jk
Si dH - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:
Generally just my belay krab, one small one on the back with my prussiks, and another if Im carrying a sling (usual). For belays I just make whatever I can out of those plus double-backed snapgates form leftover quickdraws, and never seem to run out. You dont want to be carrying more screwgates than you need, they are pretty heavy. On one or two routes when really weight-saving I have ditched the one with my prussiks and the one with the sling, so just had my belay krab.
mrchewy - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: So I take it everyone with just two screwgates is using snapgates in their belays - back to back or just one to each piece?
GridNorth - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to mrchewy: I try to get one screwgate on the anchor but I wouldn't get that worried if I didn't have any and would not bother to put snap gates back to back unless there was a specific risk of the gate opening.
In reply to wjcdean: Unless weight is a big issue, I normally carry 5. 1 HMS for belaying, 1 HMS for attaching ropes back to my harness, 2 small ones for building a belay (one for each anchor) and one on a sling for a runner (which I can use if I have three anchors and want to equalise.

If weight isn't an issue, this saves a lot of faff.
David Coley - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to mrchewy: Just one per piece.
mrchewy - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: Cheers for the answers - it's something I've thought about before. I carry five screwgates, belay, equalising and one each for three bits of gear but it wouldn't bother me a jot to use just one snapgate on each bit of gear instead. I use screwgates because that's what some of my mates would insist on and it's how I was taught. I often use back to back snapgates when I haven't got enough screwgates on me. Interesting.
CrankCrimp - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: to be fair, I have 5 on my rack, but thats way overkill, I tend to use no more than 2. If push came to shove, theres definately ways around using a screwgate
needvert on 10 Dec 2012
Most of my biners are of the following types:

Screwgate Wc neon 43g
Screwgate minihms Petzl attached 3D 55g
Wiregate Wc helium 33g


I've been carrying 4-7 screwgates I think.

Don't notice the extra weight.

I see a petzl spirit is 49g.
ads.ukclimbing.com
jkarran - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to mrchewy:

> So I take it everyone with just two screwgates is using snapgates in their belays - back to back or just one to each piece?

One/piece for me or a quickdraw if I've got a surplus.
jk
Jamie B - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to mrchewy:

> So I take it everyone with just two screwgates is using snapgates in their belays - back to back or just one to each piece?

I would happily connect to each piece with a single snapgate, but in the interests of PR usually put a screwgate to the strongest. I think that people get unnecessarily worked up about the perceived lack of security of using snaplinks, but ask yourself what is the likelihood of rope/tape magically jumping out of a loaded carabiner? As long as one is tight on the anchor and it is fully equalised I don't see the issue. Having said that I do tend to clove-hitch said tape/rope to the snaplink for extra piece of mind.

I also think that the third piece is a red-herring; the vast majority of my anchors are two-point. If you've got two bomber pieces (and for a belay you should accept nothing less), why faff about with a third?

GrahamD - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

Its a matter of preference. I usually carry 2 or 3 - one of those being my belay krab. Then again I tie the belay rope back to my harness directly without using karibiners there.
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:

> I also think that the third piece is a red-herring; the vast majority of my anchors are two-point.

Really? I suppose the most obvious reason for three is that presumably anyone can misjudge how "bomber" one of their anchors is, so you add one extra piece as redundancy?
jkarran - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to TobyA:

> Really? I suppose the most obvious reason for three is that presumably anyone can misjudge how "bomber" one of their anchors is, so you add one extra piece as redundancy?

That's a big part of why you use two bits not one.
jk
Mr.Ric on 10 Dec 2012
I tend to carry about 5 but you can definitely have just 2 and still be slick and safe on single pitch routes.

I do wonder at the logic when people tell you to use a screwgate on each anchor point for safety reasons. Surely if you've that little trust of snapgates you'd be using screwgates on every piece of gear as you climbed!!!
michaelc - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Mr.Ric:
I'm trying to think what would be the logical/absurd conclusion... maillons tightened with a spanner on each piece?

But what if that somehow vibrates open? Could maybe weld the maillons shut. Probably need to use oxy-acetylene or similar, electrical arc welding tricky (either haul transformer up, or face limiting factor of the resistance of the leads).
Morgan P - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: You've got a pretty good number there but a few additions are good. I have 2 HMS for clovehitching onto, one for my belay plate, then one with prussiks on and one stored with a sling but often used for anchor points etc. If you can fit all the clovehitches onto one HMS then of course you have another spare there

"I was taught to always use screwgates on anchor points" - this is the optimal way but, as you said, that requires a lot of screwgates. What I usually do is use up my screwgates on the best anchor points (in the perfect direction / bomber pieces) then any remaining ones I double up carabiners (with the gates in opposite directions so they can't both unclip) and that can be done by disassembling any remaining quickdraws you didn't use when leading :)
tlm - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

The thing is, for most people, including myself, if they really want to save on weight, they could probably just lose a couple of pounds of fat. That would make far more difference than worrying about carrying screwgates rather than snaplinks.

Also, it depends on what the grade of the route is. If you are climbing something at the extreme end of what you are capable of, then yes, you might want to pare down your gear. But if it is well within your capabilities, then once again, an extra screwgate really won't matter that much.

That's why I'm not too worried about taking up 3 or 4, rather than just one. It will make no difference at all to my climb, but allows me to set up my belays without having to faff or worry. If I run out of screwgates, then I use other methods and am happy to do so.
tlm - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Morgan P:
double up carabiners (with the gates in opposite directions so they can't both unclip) and that can be done by disassembling any remaining quickdraws you didn't use when leading :)


So you are taking far more quickdraws than you need? Why not take up one less quickdraw, and one more screwgate? That would be lighter and quicker and less fiddly.
Ramblin dave - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to tlm:
Yeah, that's about my reasoning.

To be honest, it's probably less effort to carry an extra 5.7 grams of karabiner than to have a long argument with someone about the necessity or otherwise of using screwgates for belay pieces...
kyaizawa - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: I've just counted and I've got 15 on my rack. However, that doesn't mean all 15 make their way up the climbs!!

For single pitch, I tend to take 4 D's for the belay, 1 HMS for belay plate, 1 D per sling and 1 D or so for any prussiks I take, so anything from 6 to 12, depending on route length/nature. (The rest of the krabs are on spare belay plates, Fig 8, etc.)

Before I get lots of "overkill comments", I do however climb with quite a lot of new club members who a) don't have any gear at all (so wouldn't even have any gear to clip into intermediate belays, etc.), and b) fall a lot (the skinny dobgones on my QDs would probably get trashed very quickly), so more gear that is tougher is a bonus. In addition, I don't take so many QDs up routes (I'll construct some from slings/racking crabs if I need to), so won't have any for the belay and I don't take any spare snap gates.

Any for those of you really weight conscious, you're better off standing at the bottom of the route, count the number of runner placements, and ditch the cam/hex sizes you're likely not to need, to suit the route and rock.

Argument against deconstructing QDs to use back to back - I keep to strict gear on one end, rop of the other rule, so the rope-end snapgate doesn't get nicked and rope remains untrashed. Deconstruct, squeeze 2 snapgates into the look of a wire (it's quite a tight fit for some brands) and load - you're very likely to get nicks, burrs and (surface not structural) damage to your until then, nicely undamaged rope-end snapgate = potential safety issues later on, so I definitely don't and use screwgates instead.

Finally, an argument for screwgates over QDs (not-deconstructed) for belays is an entirely probabilistic argument (switch off here if not scientifically inclined). By using a QD more links are introduced into the system 3 (snapgate, dogbone, snapgate; none of which are dynamic) as opposed to 1 (screwagte).
The system fails if snaplink 1 fails OR the dogbone fails OR snaplink 2 fails. For an "OR" argument, the probabilities are additive, so Prob(QD fails) = Prob(snapgate 1 fails) + Prob(dogbone fails) + Prob (snapgate 2 fails). As snapgates are almost as strong as screws, closed in the major axis, the probability of a QD failing is double plus a bit (for the dyneema/nylon failing), before we take into account any possible unclipping/gate opening effects. Whilst the probabilities are small and you're all safe using QDs, I'd rather stack the odds in my favor!!
Mark Kemball - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: The only essential screwgate is for your belay device (as others have said). Having said that I usually carry 3 or 4 more on long slings round my neck and shoulders. This gives you a couple per belay on a multipitch route, which I find is usually more than sufficient.
alooker - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: Excluding an extra one for a guide plate or similar and the ones on prussics just one HMS. They're big enough to get a couple of clove hitches on there comfortably and if I drop my belay device I can use an italian hitch in a pinch. A lot of the time on single pitch I forget it though and just use opposed snap gates for important points.

No screwgates on individual anchors in the belay though, generally.
JayPee630 - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to alooker:

One large HMS for belaying from.
Two small HMSs for making anchor points/clove hitching rope at belay loop to.
One small D shape with prussiks on.

Plus two spare snapgates for anchor points and 2 120cm slings with a snapgate on each as well. I tend not to use any slings on the anchor/belay points but use the rope instead unless unavoidable.

I don't like taking quickdraws apart as it leaves less for the leader of the next pitch.
LastBoyScout on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

1 for the belay, one per sling and 1 spare HMS (for clove hitches).

I'll build a belay with whatever I've got left on my rack, but I like the security of a screwgate on a sling.
Alex Slipchuk on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
> (In reply to mrchewy)
>
> [...]
>
> I would happily connect to each piece with a single snapgate, but in the interests of PR usually put a screwgate to the strongest. I think that people get unnecessarily worked up about the perceived lack of security of using snaplinks, but ask yourself what is the likelihood of rope/tape magically jumping out of a loaded carabiner? As long as one is tight on the anchor and it is fully equalised I don't see the issue. Having said that I do tend to clove-hitch said tape/rope to the snaplink for extra piece of mind.
>
> I also think that the third piece is a red-herring; the vast majority of my anchors are two-point. If you've got two bomber pieces (and for a belay you should accept nothing less), why faff about with a third?

I concur, Although i wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. But certainly agree on tension and snap links
David Coley - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kyaizawa:

> Finally, an argument for screwgates over QDs (not-deconstructed) for belays is an entirely probabilistic argument (switch off here if not scientifically inclined). By using a QD more links are introduced into the system 3 (snapgate, dogbone, snapgate; none of which are dynamic) as opposed to 1 (screwagte).
> The system fails if snaplink 1 fails OR the dogbone fails OR snaplink 2 fails. For an "OR" argument, the probabilities are additive, so Prob(QD fails) = Prob(snapgate 1 fails) + Prob(dogbone fails) + Prob (snapgate 2 fails). As snapgates are almost as strong as screws, closed in the major axis, the probability of a QD failing is double plus a bit (for the dyneema/nylon failing), before we take into account any possible unclipping/gate opening effects. Whilst the probabilities are small and you're all safe using QDs, I'd rather stack the odds in my favour!!

Deconstructed or otherwise, it is not normal to use QD krabs at the belay. Just deconstruct a sling draw.

Cheese Monkey - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: I carry one on each sling. The number of slings I take varies on the route choice. Up to 5. Boa HMS for central anchor point. Belay locker. Tatty locker with nut key and prussics. If you need more than that you're probably paranoid. My rule with anchors is if I cant see the biner or its particularly vulnerable to opening, use a locker.
neuromancer - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

Not many of you use a guide mode belay plate it seems?
GridNorth - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to neuromancer:
> (In reply to wjcdean)
>
> Not many of you use a guide mode belay plate it seems?

I do and it's the only reason I would carry a third screwgate.
Mark Kemball - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to neuromancer:

>
> Not many of you use a guide mode belay plate it seems?

I use one, but have not yet used it in guide mode. I've been looking for a situation where it would be appropriate, but the belays on most routes seem to be positioned such that it is more convenient to attach the belay plate to my harness. I'm sure they really come into their own on multipitch sports routes.
GridNorth - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Mark Kemball: Yes mostly on multi-pitch sport but increasingly on UK trad which is surprisingly often.
kyaizawa - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to neuromancer:
> (In reply to wjcdean)
>
> Not many of you use a guide mode belay plate it seems?

I do a lot on multipitch (always if I'm leading on) and where possible on single pitch, especially if a) the anchors are good and at the right height and b) if I think/know people are going to fall off.
Scott_vzr on 10 Dec 2012
You have one for your belay plate and one for a prussik for abseil protection. Then 2 more.

As others do, I would rather just use quickdraws then use the 2 spare above.

I always prefer to have three anchors at a belay unless there is a tree or bomber anchor.

I moved to setting up my belay tying in with my double ropes - single, multi, winter or bolted routes - to avoid faff. I bought 55m ropes for this.
Morgan P - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to tlm: Because I don't know exactly how many quickdraws I will need for a route, if I'm feeling fine then I may only place a few but if I'm sketching out then I may double place before the crux leaving me with one less for later. Who doesn't get to the top and have an extra quickdraw or two occasionally unless *god forbid* you're a bolt clipper? ;)
Sebastian Fontleroy - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

I use 4. 1 for each sling (2), one for the belay device, 1 spare in case i have to use 3 anchors. 3 probably enough though.
Enty - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

4 for the belay and the pulley. One on my harness with my GriGri. My partner had the same and there's two + a swivel on the bag. So between us about 12.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/elcap2011/8266681488/sizes/l/

E
Mark Kemball - on 12 Dec 2012
Enty - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Mark Kemball:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elcap2011/8266681488/

That should work - now i need to wait for the flaming.

E
martinph78 on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: Not going to answer how many you need, somewhere between 1 and 8 seems to be the answer above ;p

Something else to consider though is size and shape of said locking caraniners. It's tempting to go for the lightest and therefore (usually) smallest lockers. Think about what you'll be using them for though. Trying to tie a clove hitch with 10mm rope and add a 1" webbing sling to the smallest locker can be quite tight. I like to have a couple of HMS carabiners for that reason.





unclesamsauntibess - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to wjcdean)
>
> 4 for the belay and the pulley. One on my harness with my GriGri. My partner had the same and there's two + a swivel on the bag. So between us about 12.
>
> http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/elcap2011/8266681488/sizes/l/
>
>
Is just about the spot on method.
andic - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

Just counted up and I have eight!! (paint me embarrassed):

two for belay device, two which I used to rack a couple of slings on, two which rack shunt/prussics/pulley/tiblock etc, an aero on a cowstail and a boa to bring the belay back to my rope loop with clove hitches.

I dont always carry them all but probably have done at times

I suppose the answer is how many can you actually use at one time, worst case? probably 3 or four unless you are into some weird shizzle
Martin Hore - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean:

It's normally 4 for me - 1 HMS with the belay plate, 1 HMS at the harness (to tie back to if required) and 2 lightweights for the two best anchors. Additional anchors get a snap (or double snap back to back if I've lots of snaps spare at the time). This works fine for multi-pitch trad on alternate leads, assuming my partner has the same for the previous/next stance. I carry more if climbing with a novice, to create easier to switch single point anchors, and to leave at the previous/next stance.
David Ponting on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to wjcdean: It varies a lot - for a club trip with novices, where I might expect to set up top-ropes, I might well have over 10 with me (gives loads for unsupervised TRs and then enough to climb with myself). When leading single pitch, then no more than 3-4 - belay, 2-3 or so for remoter placements/other uses.

If doing multipitch, then I prefer to use screwgates rather take apart a slingdraw/QD in case I want it for the next pitch - and a Phantom screwgate (41g) is lighter than even two Phantom wiregates (26g each) - so 4 (3x phantom + boa) per belay station, giving the other set to my second to carry up if I'm leading all the pitches, and 4 for me (cow's tail, belay, guide mode, spare with Prussiks)

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