/ Runner's knee advice/treatments/spells

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verygneiss - on 09 Dec 2012
I've recently developed a case of runner's knee in my left knee, and it's really concerning me. I stopped running for a week, then starting doing very short (3-4k) runs on level ground, with a lot of stretching of the affected area before exercise. This made it go away for a week or so, but it's back after today's run, although much less painful than before.

Does anyone have any advice regarding treating runner's knee? I climb, run and snowboard. I cycle in the summer, but haven't been doing much recently due to knackered brakes/cold weather.
highclimber - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss: Runner's knee is a non-descript word for a range of knee problems caused by running and without a proper diagnosis you might as well just say you've got a sore knee as it's equally as descriptive.

Get to a physio. that's what I did and it worked!
Clint86 - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss: Use sorbothane inserts, and run offroad as much as possible.
puppythedog on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss: Gate analysis and a conversation with someone in a good shop about your shoes. Mine had very little cushioning, it was obvious to me when I compared them to other trainers but i hadn't noticed. By getting the gate analysis I was able t find out my gait is neutral and it was only cushioning that I lacked rather than a problem with over pronation or something else. I'm far from expert ( I am novice) but this was advice given to me on here when I got shin splints.
highclimber - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Clint86:
> (In reply to verygneiss) Use sorbothane inserts,


This is probably the worst idea going. Sorbothane will make the OP's foot more unstable and probably make things worse for them.
highclimber - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to puppythedog: Did the guy in the shop, or anyone else for that matter, tell you exactly what your problem was? did they solve your issue? Shin splints is another one of those ailments given a name that does nothing to describe what is actually wrong!
SouthernSteve on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss:

Go to a physio - it has helped every runner I know including myself so afflicted. You need a diagnosis, treatment and then a prevention strategy which may include new shoes etc.
marvello - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss:
My advice is based on personal experience & all worked to keep me running over the last 20 years.Firstly i would give myself a little more recovery time...a week only works when your under 10!Think more in terms of over 3 weeks rest.Plus this advice only applies to tight muscle groups, as to cartlidge or bursitus problems i cant comment.So start with a few sessions of frozen peas, then followed up with one of those microwavable wheatpacks,this wil help with the healing process up...10 mins about...until you get fed up!
Next i would say concentrate on lengthening those hamstrings...every opportunity of touching your toes( seriously)i reckon that took me over 6 months to achieve...then its the IB band...there are some good stretches around but a foam roller(6 inches in diameter, from a physio supply shop) is probably best...though to begin with you may find this a little uncomfortable...to be truthful..painful!
My last piece of advice is patience..or massage...both will serve you well for the long term.
Hope this helps & like i said, this advice is all hard won & paid for!!!
puppythedog on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to highclimber: We discussed it and looked at my gait on a video recorder. My issue was most likely increasing mileage too quickly and crap trainers. He was no physio but did advise my friend to seek more specialist advice with her seriously flattened feet and her desire to know more about inserts. This suggested to me that he at least knew the limitations of his knowledge. I'm sorted now ( I think)

highclimber - on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to puppythedog:
> (In reply to highclimber) We discussed it and looked at my gait on a video recorder. My issue was most likely increasing mileage too quickly and crap trainers.

So, would it be fair to say the gait analysis counted for nothing really? I think they are a gimmick to help sell shoes and most shops with the gimmick have staff who know full well that's all it is.

Another reason to not waste time with gait analysis is that most running shoes are neutrally posted i.e. they don't correct over or under pronation
puppythedog on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to highclimber: You may know more than me, I wouldn't know. I was advised on here to get it checked because of the pains I had on the interior of the top of my shin after getting more into running.
I chose to hand myself over to people who probably know more than me (both on here and in the shop) and go for some advice. I am happy with the outcome of that advice.

The gate analysis demonstrated that I was neutral in my running (I could see that for myself on the screen having done some research on t'internet before going).

The shop came with good references from friends who have used it also.
puppythedog on 09 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss: Best advice is of course to go to a physio as has been said above.
Irk the Purist - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss:

Runner's knee is used to describe a lot of things. If you describe the pain (at least where it is) then someone may be able to share their experiences more helpfully.



tk421 on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss:

I'll throw in a shout for "barefoot / minimalist" running. Google will turn up loads of results but basically running with a higher cadence and landing on the balls of your feet underneath your body rather than with the heel out in front of you. Can reduce the strain on your knees.
Tyler - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to jleong:
> (In reply to verygneiss)
>
> I'll throw in a shout for "barefoot / minimalist" running. Can reduce the strain on your knees.

As can just walking but if the idea of running is to go as fast as you can then neither option is ideal!
wilding - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss:

Are you referring to ITBS? I get this if my mileage goes too high. My advice is not to run until the pain has gone. Then take things easier than before. Build up your mileage slowly (at most add 10% distance per week)
Also, sign up for yoga. Poses like half-pigeon help to stretch the ITB. It helped me.
tk421 on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Tyler:
Dont find I run any slower forefoot striking as I do when heel strike.

If you can run faster than this heel striking I'd be impressed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QrlPmK4B94
tk421 on 10 Dec 2012
nniff - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to marvello:
> (In reply to verygneiss)
> My advice is based on personal experience & all worked to keep me running over the last 20 years.Firstly i would give myself a little more recovery time...a week only works when your under 10!Think more in terms of over 3 weeks rest.Plus this advice only applies to tight muscle groups, as to cartlidge or bursitus problems i cant comment.So start with a few sessions of frozen peas, then followed up with one of those microwavable wheatpacks,this wil help with the healing process up...10 mins about...until you get fed up!
> Next i would say concentrate on lengthening those hamstrings...every opportunity of touching your toes( seriously)i reckon that took me over 6 months to achieve...then its the IB band...there are some good stretches around but a foam roller(6 inches in diameter, from a physio supply shop) is probably best...though to begin with you may find this a little uncomfortable...to be truthful..painful!
> My last piece of advice is patience..or massage...both will serve you well for the long term.
> Hope this helps & like i said, this advice is all hard won & paid for!!!

What he said, plus stretches to stretch the outside of the hip. Worked for me - ITB problem. The roller is painful. If you can't get hold of a roller, a 1 litre bottle of coke in a tea towel works, but that's even more painful.
Phil_Winskill - on 11 Dec 2012
Sounds like you're doing the right thing to be fair.

After lots of advice over the past few months from various people (physio, osteopath etc), I've come to the conclusion that doing lots of stretching and not doing anything that aggravates it too much.

I was suffering a few months ago, so did more cycling thinking it would ease the knee (it didn't). If anything It caused more problems. I basically tightened the hamstring more, in turn causing more knee issues. The hips also tightened up as well, which also added more complication.

I know have several stretches that I do as often as possible, and this seems to be working. The foam roller is good and have also used that, but possible not as much as I could, we'll see...

I'm running again (cautiously). The intention is to now build my strength steadily with running and biking, then introduce speedwork after winter.

Phil
ads.ukclimbing.com
Ben Sharp - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss: You stretched before your runs and that made it a bit better but now it's back. If stretching made it better then why not do more of it and just try getting back to running more slowly.

As others have no doubt said, it could be anything. Stretch, strengthen, sort your shoes out, run off road...etc. etc. there's plenty of advice on here if you search. You can follow it all and it might work but it'll always be a poor alternative to seeing a specialist.
SAF - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss: I went down the route of physio/podiatrist under the NHS, the physio was really good, but the podiatrist was useless, so I just ended up lossing interest.

The main thing that I have found that has helped is being really disciplined about building up my running gradually, and doing a really long warm up, about a mile of walk/jog followed by stretching, before I even consider running. After several failed attempts over a 3 year period, to get running again, this time I seem to have cracked it!!
Flat4matt - on 31 Dec 2012
In reply to verygneiss:

The thing is, people say they stretch and think that its a tick box exercise ie bending over touchingtheir toes and pulling their foot up to their bum and think thats it, 30secs job done.
Im my experience stretching can/should take me around 20mins and thats being quick but thorough both before and after running.
Ive had a knee problem for two years now. First trip to docs ended up with me having a cortozone(?) Injection which felt like it made it worse. I had an xray(possible floating bone?). Then had an MRI scan(cartilage damage?) All to no avail. The problem was something simple.
I had been running with 35lb pack training for paras10 race for afew months.(building weight and distance and in boots gradually!) Id neglected my stretching. As a result, my hips became tight, my IT band became rediculously tight and because the IT band was too tight it wasnt supporting my knee as it should so the front inner muscle was working overtime to try and counter it. Everytime i weighted my knee and bent it it would feel like a knife going in and would just give way.
I ended up finding all this out myself by reading books and talking to mates and was then backed up by a physio who gave me hell as she battered my IT band and surrounding areas till it was nice and buttery again :-D
The problem has gone and providing i keep my stretching routine up my knee is fine.

I hope you find out the cause quick and get it sorted!!

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