/ Harness leg loops undoing

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kilner on 10 Dec 2012
Interesting video about black diomond harness leg loops undoing even if they are doubled back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPdp5Pwebmc
GridNorth - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner: That's b*llocks. I've just tried it with my BD Blizzard and it doesn't move. If you watch he is actually forcing the buckle with his finger as you might to undo it. If I were BD I would want this video removing.
Ben Briggs - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to GridNorth:

Looks like he is just undoing the leg loops in the way they are designed to work, my Petzl harness does exactly the same thing.
GridNorth - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Ben Briggs: Yes, just tried this with a DMM harness and, guess what, it starts to open up. That's how you get them undone in the first place. Never mind BD if I ran this forum I would pull this thread. It's alarmist and inaccurate.
Kemics - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner:

This must be a troll. So what he's saying is buckles undo....if you undo them? I should do a video about my Peugeot the seat belts completely undo...if you press the little red button...it's a little known fault.
Rock Badger on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner: dodgy black diamond, questionable stainless crampons now harnesses of death,,what next,,,,
i like to tie a really tiny stopper not in pretty much everything ,,,
Rock Badger on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Kemics: lol tehe
GridNorth - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to count:

> i like to tie a really tiny stopper not in pretty much everything ,,,

I suppose that's cheaper than condoms :-)
Rock Badger on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to GridNorth: hahaha,, gets a bit messy untying, sometimes need the old nut key,
climber david - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner:

While I agree that this is a bit alarmist, however if somebody clips a crab to the leg loop for a prussik on an abseil there is a possibility of that happening. this can obviously be prevented by clipping above the buckle.

Just something to think about
Stone Idol - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner: Weeeeell - my Petzl won't undo like that when threaded back and that video made me nervous. It is unlikely that you would catch both buckles in an accident, but even so....
GridNorth - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Stone Idol: What even when you push the buckle back? How do you get the leg loops undone?
kilner on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner:

Its not set up or fake.

If you pay close attention to the video you will see the buckle is an old style double back not a zip lock style buckle.

The potential problem with this is that when using a prussuk for abseil back up attached to leg loop, the krab has potential to completly undo the leg loop in the same way his fingers undo the leg loop in the video.
Black diomond have been told by harness owner as have BMC.
kilner on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to GridNorth:
> (In reply to Stone Idol) What even when you push the buckle back? How do you get the leg loops undone?

You take the douuble back out first.

If its doubled back it should be a solid unit that dosnt slide.

Zip lock buckles do the same but the tape is folded over and bartacked so they cant come completely undone.

its not alarmist its about a technical descussion about climbing equipment to raise awareness of an unlikely situation, but one with potential serious consequences.
GridNorth - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner: Well if I was BD I wouldn't see it that way. The guy is loosening the buckle as you would to undo it. I don't see how in an abseil situation the buckle could undo, the krab would be behind the tape and pushing the tape into the buckle, if anything I would have thought that it was less likely to slacken off.
bouldery bits - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner:

In all honesty, if you are dumb enough to undo a leg loop the other leg loop and waist belt will be sufficient to keep you aloft (if uncomfortable).
Brett ffitch - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to GridNorth:
As has been stated above this is a self double back buckle. NOT a zip lock.

It is possible to do this with a carabiner used for a back up prusik when abseiling and it has happened in real life with a serious accident only being avoided by the user keeping hold of the dead rope.
ben_c_s on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner:
I have a BD self double back harness, my leg loops will loosen over the course of a long mountain day, or an evening at the wall. But never as much as shown in the video and I've never had any issues on abseils when using a prusik. When I notice it's lose I just tighten it back up again.
highclimber - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner: I don't beleive this will happen under load from a prussik. The guy pulls on the buckle in an unnatural way that wouldn't occur in real life. I have done countless abseils with the very same harness this guy uses and have never had the leg loops come loose.
GridNorth - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner: I am not saying that those of you who think this could happen are wrong, perhaps there is something that should be investigated further, but the film does not illustrate this. If he did not assist the slackening of the buckle by pushing with his finger it would be more meaningful. All I see is someone taking the first step of undoing his leg loops.
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valjean - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner:

good to know those things will come undone after i double them back... ive been cutting the leg loops off mine each season, gets manky and quite expensive.

on a serious note.. i was thinking this was with the speed adjust buckles. call me old fashioned but speed adjust translate to speed release to me under certain (although unlikely) situations. When BD phased out the regular buckles in favour of SA, i grabbed one more old that should keep me happy for a while. I do have a harness with SA buckles and i will paranoidly check on them throughout the day.
cuppatea on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner:

I assumed it was the speed undo buckle and not the threadback. Not watched the video yet, but I was initially reminded of the Blue Ice(?) Harness that someone reported on a month or 3 ago..

Some time ago I found this
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/black-diamond-aspect-climbing-harness-failure-warning-long-post/107...
While researching my next harness.

Do BD have a disgruntled ex customer or ten out there?

highclimber - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to cuppatea:
> (In reply to kilner)
>
>
>
> Do BD have a disgruntled ex customer or ten out there?

this maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZlfj-VcwK4
cuppatea on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to highclimber:

Good work! I feel like I've just been Rickrolled :D
Jonny2vests - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to kilner:

I used to have a harness with zip lock leg loops (not doubled back), can't remember who made it. I noticed several times that my ab prussik loosened the leg loop and on two occasions, undid it completely.

It's hardly a major drama (as suggested), but I tend to use fixed leg loop harnesses these days to avoid the faff. No matter how much kit I wear, I don't wear enough to make adjustable leg loops necessary, so I really don't see what the point is anymore.

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