/ Pegs

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Cheese Monkey - on 10 Dec 2012
Pegs - when is it acceptable to place them on rock routes [if ever]? I'm talking esoteric little travelled sort of stuff

Discuss.

[I do not own any pegs or hammers]
wurzelinzummerset on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Cheese Monkey: The CC 2000 North Devon and Cornwall guidebook actually states that on routes where pegs are mentioned in the route description that it's a good idea to carry pegs/hammer as it's likely some or maybe all of them will have rotted, fallen out or been removed. So, that indicates that on the Culm Coast it is considered acceptable, but it would be interesting to hear from someone who's climbed there.
Cheese Monkey - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wurzelinzummerset: The only route I've done up that way was Wreckers Slab a few weeks ago. There were a few pegs on p1 belay which were necessary ish, and a few pegs on route where there would of been large runouts. But nothing dangerous without them I would have said. I would imagine on the routes immediately around wreckers carrying pegs could be useful...
The Ex-Engineer - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Cheese Monkey: Without wanting to simplify the debate overly much. On existing routes:
- Placing them, rarely acceptable.
- Re-placing existing ones in poor condition, generally acceptable.
Cheese Monkey - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to The Ex-Engineer: Oh yeah, I understand that. What about on routes that are rarely climbed/loose/a bit mental and its unknown whether pegs needed or not?
Mark Kemball - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Cheese Monkey: It's certainly aceptable to place pegs on new routes on the Culm, and on some of the more adventurous multipitch routes, you would be very foolish not to carry them and equally foolish to place much reliance on anything that has been left in-situ. This is why it is also worth considering removing the pegs after an obscure first ascent, so that the placements will still be available. However, personally, I think there are rather too many pegs on Wreckers' Slab - it's perfectly reasonable without most if not all of them. Fortunately, every so often, some public spirited individual removes the surplus.
Cheese Monkey - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Mark Kemball: Absolutely, that seems like a pretty sensible ethic to me. I'd like to at least work up to getting out on some more adventurous obscure ground next year. Theres something exciting about the little travelled esoteric routes that doesnt compare to a 3* route at Bosigran for example.
Andy Hemsted - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Wasn't there originally a peg on the first pitch of The Mousetrap which made the traverse much safer? Has it ever been replaced? If not, shouldn't it be?
KellyKettle - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Cheese Monkey: At the risk of seeming dense, if you're placing pegs or other driven protection properly (i.e. with the absolute bare minimum of force required for a secure placement) and your second is cleaning them as they would other gear, then where's the big issue?
Mark Kemball - on 10 Dec 2012
In reply to KellyKettle:
> ... then where's the big issue?

The problem is that the placement and removal of pegs damages the rock (no matter how careful you are). The other issue is that pegs will rust away quickly on sea cliffs. This two factors work against each other.
Cheese Monkey - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Hemsted: I'm not looking to discuss individual routes that I have no idea about
KellyKettle - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Mark Kemball: Well yes, though I kind of took for granted that placing driven protection is more difficult and time consuming than placing pretty much any passive or active protection; So if you're using pegs, it's for a situation where literally nothing else will do (or it bloody well should be), in that situation, not placing gear, and increasing the risk you take simply because of ethics, is a very personal judgement call.

I'd agree that nailing up a route where there was oportunity to place other forms of protection was wrong, but I don't think anyone would really encourage that in this day and age.

I also happen to think "fixed" pegs are a worse alteration to the rock face than peg scars, the former is potentialky dangerous and clogs up the placement long after it's rusted out of usability; by contrast, peg scars will become usable with small bits of normal "clean" pro, eventually obiviating the need for further use of pegs.

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