/ Leashes or Leashless for First Time Winter Climb??
I'm taking someone on their first foray into Winter, Grade II I would think - certainly no harder.
Would you advise missing out "Leashes" and going straight for the Leashless experience or would you suggest a couple of routes with Leashes first?
I am wondering whether the perceived support to the wrists would make a first timer feel a little more secure - possible stop them tiring?
I can borrow pair of Axes that they can use that can be set with/without.
I did my 1st winter week last Feb, I was advised to use leashes in the course notes.
My guide for the week saw us all with leashes and remarked that leashless with tether would be easier.
He was right, going up the grade II gulleys where you need one axe the leash was a pain when you come to swap over to other hand. Funnily enough I've now got a springy tether for my axes.
If climbing with a single, traditional mountaineering or alpine axe I'd probably go with having a traditional leash fitted just in case, for the steeper sections. However, equally often on the easiest grade I/II terrain, or Alpie Faciles/PDs, I wouldn't use anything.
If climbing with a more technical axe (or axes) more suited for leashless climbing (i.e. with either triggers or a pommel/griprest fitted) then using an elasticated tether would definitely be my first choice. Although, with that style of axe, if a tether wasn't available I'd probably exhort my second not to drop the axes rather than improvise a tether or fit leashes.
For Clarity when i mean Leashless they will still be attached via a lanyard. So Axe cannot be dropped.
I'll be taking my son who has inherited his dads feeble arms - so i was worried that he might get tired. ;-)
The axes he will be using will be Grivel Alp Wings which have a full Lockdown style Leash but can be used with a lanyard.
Re Single axe on Grade II - as he is 13 he most will definately need two axes - "cause it looks a lot cooler for post climb facebook updates"
Only last week I took a mate for his first winter climb. He found the leashes on my spare Fly's an annoyance; BUT:
a) as a beginner I didn't think he would have the discipline to "not drop" a tool. I appreciate that on grade II ground it will likely only fall at their feet, but its an added concern.
b) he was a none climber, so I felt the 2 springer leash lanyards would likely get tangled with the rope at belays and mid route, whilst wrist leashes really shouldn't!
c) on grade II terrain you don't really need to switch hands on axes, the only faff is at belays and when extracting runners.
d) on grade II terrain it is usual to use the shaft of the axe, rather than the pick (in my limited experience). I hate using a clipper lanyard attached to the bottom of the shaft whilst doing this, especially as a learner might be less careful with their placements?
e) confindence on slopes; if he takes a slide, finding an axe on a lanyard can be a nightmare if he has let go? Actually its quite dangerous as the axe will do its own thing whilst almost chasing the falling walker on a piece of elastic?
Maybe the truth though is that I learnt that way, so felt he should?
The simple answer is it depends on the axes. If they're using Flys then probably better with leashes; if they're using Fusions (doubtful) then better with lanyards.
So can have lanyards fixed to top or bottom of shaft - I have feeling that he will want to fix at bottom for the full "Swing".
Arm strength is not important below about Grade IV
> So can have lanyards fixed to top or bottom of shaft - I have feeling that he will want to fix at bottom for the full "Swing".
yep no point in attaching the lanyards to the head of the axe.
Because he is 13....
When I was sorting out my winter stuff he commented that the axe would be a really good hand to hand weapon in a Zombie Apocolypse!!!
> So can have lanyards fixed to top or bottom of shaft
If youa re talking about leashless, you can attach them in the middle too, with smart use of some strong 2mm cord (and ideally some heatshrink). I'll try to upload some pics later when I get home. This was invaluable when I went leashless with Grivel Matrix Lights because there is not a big "eye" at the bottom of the shaft into which to clip the springer leash, so you'd end up frigging some sort of loop down there with cord, which is a right old mess frankly. Thanks to Oceanic for the suggestion.
I don't know the Alpwing.
I dunno, I think I'd prefer something that keeps a bit of distance between me and the zombie hordes. Plus I don't think the newfangled ergonomic tools these days would actually be all that good for brain smashing - too much fancy wrist action needed, not enough plain welly.
Probably, but relatively hard to come by, I'd have thought.
I've just spent the past few minutes gazing out of the window wondering whether a beefy hex on a rope or a sort of flail made out of linked krabs would be more effective?
A spade with the edges sharpened, get grinding! (Have just finished world war Z and am getting ready...)
> yep no point in attaching the lanyards to the head of the axe.
Hmmmm... on grade 2 gullies you need to stab the shaft of the axe in quite a lot. Lanyards connected to the bottom are crap for this!!!
probably quite good for plunging also?
Could be worse, could be Zombies.
leashless. also monopoints.
spinners if youre worried about them dropping them, but all the hoo ha of leashes will only cloud the process. they will tire less from proper shaking out than being tied onto sharp weapons.
spare them the whole 'should i go leashless???' soul-searching that will come if they stick with it.
> leashless. also monopoints.
For Grade II gullies!!!! Nah
> probably quite good for plunging also?
Plunging is overrated, mind.
I know. This is one thread where the answer should be - get out and stop asking stupid questions on the internet.
> For Grade II gullies!!!! Nah
yes thats the reality - but the fantasy is more enticing.
> I know. This is one thread where the answer should be - get out and stop asking stupid questions on the internet.
Damn... I wish there was a LIKE button!!!!
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