/ UIAA falls (advice)

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longrod von hugendong on 03 Jan 2013
hi
I am always very safety consious when climbing, and i have recently started learning to lead climb.
I was wondering how relevent are the UIAA guidelines on the ammount of falls a rope can take.
The reason i ask is, the ropes i am looking at buying come with a guideline of 6 falls but that doesnt seem like a lot to me as i tend to fall a LOT!!

Any advice would be great

Cheers.
CurlyStevo - on 03 Jan 2013
gethin_allen on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to longrod von hugendong: A UIAA "fall" is nothing like what you would normally experience in a typical climbing fall. It's something like a factor 1.7 fall (ie you fall 1.7 m for every 1 m of rope) with a 80 Kg weight on the rope. To generate such forces you would either have to be bery unlucky falling off at the beginning of a pitch on multipitch, ludicrously stupid or climbing something crazy.
Obviously though, the more falls a rope is rated to the better, within reason.
CurlyStevo - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to gethin_allen:
yeah also the falls are held completely staticly and the rope can not move at all, it is then repeatedly loaded over the same section. In real life the belay will be somewhat dynamic and rope will slip through the belay device at 3kn or so too.
Cheese Monkey - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to longrod von hugendong: In the vast majority of real-life situations the UIAA rating is not particularly relevant
highclimber - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to longrod von hugendong: all you need to know for now is
in normal use, ropes do not break.
IainWhitehouse - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to gethin_allen:

> Obviously though, the more falls a rope is rated to the better, within reason.

Not obviuos at all in the real world. It would be logical but the fall ratings bear so little relation to real world use that there is not any practical correlation between UIAA fall rating and rope longevity.

I tested about a dozen ropes for durability against hard use (ie frequent falls) a couple of years ago and one of the worst performers wear-wise was one with a very high fall rating on paper.
Offwidth - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to IainWhitehouse:

What do you mean by durability? Loss of elasticity, deformation, sheath slippage???
CurlyStevo - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to IainWhitehouse: beal perhaps?
longrod von hugendong on 03 Jan 2013
cheers guys thats cleared it up for me.
thanks for the advice and happy climbing
Scott_vzr on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to longrod von hugendong:

One factor to think about is that the falls and testing are on a NEW rope. After use the ends in particular become worn and 'well used' and you can never truly tell by the feel/outward look of a rope how used it is and how truly safe it is.

Also, if you add your weight plus clothes and bags, krabs etc how heavy is that ? More than 80kg ?

You may wish to read this
http://www.petzl.com/EPI/v2/epi-en/normes/norCorGb.swf

And this
http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Sport/RD_Corde_dyn_R005000C.pdf

You may also remember that short 1-3m falls on an indoor wall or bolted route works the rope much harder compared to a 5m fall after climbing up 40m.

Be Safe !
DeShark - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Scott_vzr:

What is the point you're trying to make? That old ropes and >80kg loads are dangerous? That non-chemical wear cannot be seen and felt? All evidence from the real-world points to the contrary - the fact that no rope which wasn't either applied over a sharp edge or subject to chemical deterioration has broken with "normal" use - not even old ones at the ends.

I'm not advocating a reckless approach to rope inspection and maintenance, just that a new climber shouldn't worry about the rope breaking - they're much much much more likely to have an accident due to not checking the basics - correct knots, correct communication, the correct equipment being used in the correct way.
deepsoup - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to gethin_allen:
> (In reply to longrod von hugendong) A UIAA "fall" is nothing like what you would normally experience in a typical climbing fall. It's something like a factor 1.7 fall (ie you fall 1.7 m for every 1 m of rope) with a 80 Kg weight on the rope. To generate such forces you would either have to be bery unlucky falling off at the beginning of a pitch on multipitch, ludicrously stupid or climbing something crazy.

In addition to this, there's no belay device - the rope is solidly gripped in a clamp. So in effect its the least dynamic belay you could possibly imagine. An elephant with a grigri would probably give a softer catch. ;O)

gethin_allen on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to IainWhitehouse:
I'll bow to your experience as I'm pretty sure I bought all my ropes from you.
Scott_vzr on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to DeShark: If you re-read the OP he wants to know if it's safe to fall more than 6 times......
DeShark - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Scott_vzr:

Then the answer's "yes" - at least I hope so... heheh...
ads.ukclimbing.com
another_alex - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to longrod von hugendong:
Rather than start a new topic I'll ask here as well -

I'm planning to get a rope mostly to use for lead falling practice indoors (it scares me way too much!) - something like this http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1838

How long could I use it for - with several fairly low factor falls each time I climb on it - before I need to retire it?

thanks

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