/ World's most inept off piste ski descent?

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Frank4short - on 03 Jan 2013
Is this the world’s most incompetent ski party? Lost, in fog on the descent from hell. These guys are fairly lucky to be alive as far as i'm concerned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5WazXzxs3A

Tea leafed from pistehors.com
Dave Kerr - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

I'm not sure Pete sees it that way. What was the chat on Pistehors about it?
Cuthbert on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:

We are talking about the Alladin who doesn't doesn't touch cloth here aren't we?

Good on the big man!
Dave Kerr - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Saor Alba:

The very same.
Simon Wells - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

Great sense of adventure!!!!

Not to sue about keeping spaced out for avalanches etc, ok given the visibility I can see why, but the big 'clump and slide' at 1:50'ish and all three lined up at 4.27 do make me wonder if they could have reduced the whole groups exposure to avalanche by being a bit more controlled.
Tim Chappell - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

I'm glad I wasn't there on that one. When I get into situations like that I just get very, very angry, "This could kill us and it would be a f*cking stupid way to die" sort of thing.

Not of course that I ever do get into situations like that... erm.
Dave Kerr - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon Wells:
> (In reply to Frank4short)
>
> Great sense of adventure!!!!
>
> Not to sue about keeping spaced out for avalanches etc, ok given the visibility I can see why, but the big 'clump and slide' at 1:50'ish and all three lined up at 4.27 do make me wonder if they could have reduced the whole groups exposure to avalanche by being a bit more controlled.

Did you also spot the guy falling off the via ferrata ladder and the one skiing straight into a big rock?

Simon Wells - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:

Yep!

I have NEVER skied into solid objects.......well errmmm....... skied with a college group last winter and went off for a 'little adventure' on my tod each day as the students level was fun but a bit limiting, the students did wonder why I turned up at the hotel with a branch stuck in my rucsac.

To my mind the biggest risk other than skiing off a cliff, falling, rocks, via ferrata is avalanches?!?!


Frank4short - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:

> I'm not sure Pete sees it that way. What was the chat on Pistehors about it?

Well what i've seen in it is for starters
- planning a big serious route in bad conditions,
- then admittedly cancelling that but going down a serious route you don't know the route on (so ending dangerously off route),
- then there's at least one piece of footage showing 3 of them skiing directly on top of each other at the same time,
- he says they're strong skiers though from viewing the footage it looks like at least 2 of them aren't exactly strong enough for what they're doing,
- one of them falls over and causes a big enough sluff to take his mate out too (so obviously avalanche risk wasn't minimal),
- then the guy falls off of the top of via ferrata section when his mate is climbing down it (why was he close enough to the edge for this to happen),
- numerous dodgy falls and finally at no point do any of them appear to stopping to wait for their mates in safe zones.

So all in all a whole load of f*ck ups which could have easily killed one or more of them had they not been extremely lucky.
Cameron94 on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short: That looked like an epic adventure, glad the made a video!

Goucho on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short: Thanks for sharing this excellent video of an excellent little adventure.

I'd much sooner watch something like this, than the annual get together of the Mountain Health & Safety Inspectorate. I particularly like the Via Ferrata jump.....classic boys own adventure stuff.
George Ormerod - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
> Is this the world’s most incompetent ski party?

You obviously haven't seen me skiing.
Lizard - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

Exciting stuff for sure.

Probably more competent than this guy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1bpTOW4a6Q
whispering nic - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Lizard:
Nice!
jonnie3430 - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
> Is this the world’s most incompetent ski party?

Not if they can get down that. It looked like a great adventure, I'd love to have been part of that.
jonnie3430 - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Lizard:

HA HA hahahahahahah HA!
Aly - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
> Is this the world’s most incompetent ski party?

Not by a long shot, I loved the video though.

I like their style, those kids have got balls...
jonnie3430 - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
>
> So all in all a whole load of f*ck ups which could have easily killed one or more of them had they not been extremely lucky.

How you can say "I like doin stuff, preferably stuff that scares the bejaysus out of me ie climbing, skiing," and slag off this video is beyond me.
Dave Kerr - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Aly:
> (In reply to Frank4short)
> [...]
>
> I like their style, those kids have got balls...

Balls will get you into more trouble than they will get you out of. Brains are a better organ to rely on in the mountains if a long career is your goal.
sbc_10 - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
> (In reply to Aly)
> [...]
>
> Balls will get you into more trouble than they will get you out of.

...yes, you can say that about relationships as well......
whispering nic - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:
They are good skiers, they bit off a bit more than they could chew but got away with it. Been there done that. Eventually learnt from the experiences but still do something daft now and again and gave to have a word with myself.
Dave Kerr - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to whispering nic:

Ditto.
Misha - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
Looks like a great adventure and hardly life threatening, apart from the via ferrata fall, which was careless but snow can give way suddenly. Bit hard to tell but doesn't look like they were going down very steep stuff when they were actually skiing. Obviously it was pretty steep in places but they down climbed / abbed that successfully apart from that fall. So no real issue there. Obviously not great to be on that terrain in poor vis but easy enough to go off route in poor vis, especially when going downhill on skis. They aren't amazing skiers but not am I. and you have to stay together in poor vis, unless you're in a gully where there's only one way to go. Well played give the circumstances!
Cuthbert on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha:

Some of those guys are actually pretty hot skiers. I challenge anyone to give it good style in that situation.
whispering nic - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha:
They look pretty handy on their skis to me - tricky conditions and tight couloirs with deep snow demand a good level of competence and fitness.
Tim Chappell - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Saor Alba:


I don't think I'd be trying to give it good style.

More likely, I think I'd be saying something like "Will you idiots STOP and THINK a minute, and will you please stop trying to ski this and accept we have to downclimb, abseil, and will you please, basically, start praying we don't knock each other off or get smushed by an avalanche?"
Cuthbert on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Tim Chappell:

This is turning into a trial by arm chair, as per usual UKC idiocy. None of us were even there!
moffatross on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Saor Alba: Yep, to me, it's an entertaining, revealing and humbling montage of the journey of a small group of quite capable fellas who got lost in pretty shocking conditions and ended up heading somewhere they weren't expecting to. They did commendably under the circumstances and IMO, if they really had been incompetent, they wouldn't all have got down unscathed, no matter how much 'luck' was on their side. Also smacks of a teensy bit of sour grape vendetta by some who've been posting this to the usual forums the last couple of days.
Robert Durran - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

They looked pretty competent to me.
whispering nic - on 03 Jan 2013
In reply to Tim Chappell: I know skiers I'd trust far more on their skis than trying to downclimb! 19/20 yr olds don't always stop and think and these guys will walk away able to reflect on their survival rather than some of the other possible consequences of their actions
gavmac - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
Nonsense. I actually found the video pretty inspiring. Yes they took risks and made mistakes but I would rather be out with somebody like Pete than having to sit reading tediously judgemental threads like this. I suppose thats the risk you take when posting videos, somebody sitting with their slippers on scowling at the 'young uns' actually getting out there and having an adventure. Life is about risk and learning from your experiences and I'm sure they learned plenty.
Cuthbert on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to gavmac:

Well said Gav. Have you been skiing with that Swedish guy Then Borburn?
Boogs on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to gavmac:

I actually found the video pretty inspiring. Yes they took risks and made mistakes but I would rather be out with somebody like Pete than having to sit reading tediously judgemental threads like this. I suppose thats the risk you take when posting videos, somebody sitting with their slippers on scowling at the 'young uns' actually getting out there and having an adventure. Life is about risk and learning from your experiences and I'm sure they learned plenty.

Word Life Man as they say in the South Bronx ! ( or I concur if you will ) .

Had a similar experience snowboarding with a mate back country a few years ago , Scared out of my nut , but what fun ! Learned a lot more respect for the mountains and life very quickly but will never forget that day as long as I breathe . . . 80)

galpinos - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

They certainly made some mistakes (in my opinion, from seeing the video, I wasn't there!) but were obviously competant enough to get down in one piece and as a group were well equipped and experienced enough to survive. I hope no-one followed their tracks!

We've all made mistakes, especially easy when changing to an "easier" objective, and surely when you get through it all that's what's classed as experience. From the looks on their faces on the last shot, none of them look smug at having skied "a rad line" but thankfull to have got down.
Dave Kerr - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

It's a shame the word inept was used by the op as it comes across as highly critical. After all who hasn't made bad decisions and got into difficult situations?

I assume the guys involved have thought long, hard and honestly about their decision making and tactics. Days like that make you a better mountaineer, provided you first survive them and secondly accept the lesson.

The above seems to be most folks attitude on this thread.

The worrying thing is the couple of posts of a 'that rocks!' nature. Getting into situations where you rely on luck does not rock. Having the skills to avoid these situations or ensure you get through them without further pushing your luck does rock.

MG - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short: Other than the initial (rather large!) mistake and falling on the via ferrata they seem pretty ept to me.
alben - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

That looks so pretty and fabulous.



You might like :http://www.styles-new.com/hairstyles/bob/
nbonnett - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Lizard:

Superb , bloody fantastic
nniff - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

I thought it was great - the days when things go a bit awry are always the ones you remember. Epics are what makes experience and anyone with experience will have had their fair share.

It's what happens when good plans (or even bad plans) don't work out as intended. Take as an example the day when I found myself reckoning that if I slipped (which was highly likely), I could kick off backwards and maybe land in the snowdrift below - from 50m up. At the same time, my utterly redundant belayer was thinking the same - he fell three times seconding. All this on a usually unremarkable but well-starred route and highly photographed route.

Anyway - I describe my skiing as 'successfully incompetent' and the only thing that I am sure of is that I would have done their route cartwheel stylee from top to bottom.
Ben Briggs - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short: its pretty stupid dropping into a line you don't know in bad vis, and they are lucky. having said that i have done some stupid things myself and you live and learn (hopefully).
Ben Briggs - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Ben Briggs: skiing on top of each other in deep snow is also not cool, it did turn into a bit of a shit show!
Guy - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short: They obviously have some mtn skills but are seriously lucky as well. The lack of skiing within themselves on serious terrain was astonishing. Still they got away with it and gave us a good jaw drop.
Tim Chappell - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Saor Alba:
> (In reply to Tim Chappell)
>
> This is turning into a trial by arm chair, as per usual UKC idiocy. None of us were even there!


Of course we weren't, and I was trying to avoid the trial by armchair approach by just remarking on how I think I'd feel if I had been there. Namely frightened and angry.
Martin W on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to whispering nic:

> They are good skiers

Hmm, not 100% convinced of that. The one in the red jacket (the one who fell down the vf) seems to spend too much time leaning back, and the one in the grey jacket doesn't seem to be in proper control of his skis for rather too much of the time (which could be why he ended up skiing in to a rock). I'm not saying I'm a better skier than either of them, but I can see they're making mistakes in technique that I'd be happier not to see people making on ground like that.

I must admit I find it puzzling why, if they were supposed to be following the line of the cable car, they didn't try to use it as a final navigational reference before they committed themselves. The visibility doesn't look so bad that you wouldn't be able to see some of the cable car infrastructure.

At the end of the day they did make it, and they should have learned a lot from the experience. But they rode their luck pretty hard IMO.
Martin W on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short: Got a link to the pistehors.com thread? I don't seem to be able to locate it.
Kipper - on 04 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:
> Is this the world’s most incompetent ski party?

I seriously doubt it; you haven't seen me skiing.

They seemed to be 'enjoying' it, and looked like they had a fair bit of all round competence.

highclimber - on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short: I really don't see what the fuss is all about. I don't know the guys on the vid but what they do is their own making and it's not for us to judge their descisions especially when no one got injured or died, they just made a navigational error, and perhaps a few silly mistakes on the way down.

It looked hairy to say the least but it looked more like a great adventure.
Tris - on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to Martin W:
> (In reply to Frank4short) Got a link to the pistehors.com thread? I don't seem to be able to locate it.

Here you go:

http://pistehors.com/news/forums/viewthread/1385/
NottsRich on 05 Jan 2013
Great video and great adventure. Liked it a lot.
Erik B - on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to NottsRich: try watching it again with the sound off and remove the chilled out music and commentary, gives some perspective to what it really was!

lucky and foolish guys indeed, but fair play! more experience for them in the great game of life.
jon on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to Frank4short:

You want inept... look as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amI8deUK2UM
ERU - on 05 Jan 2013
Did he need the beacon?
Misha - on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to jon:
If we started listing all the things they did wrong, we'd be here a while...
Traveller - on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha: Anyone know what the tune is?
jon on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha:

Yes, it'd be quicker to list what he did right.
Ben Briggs - on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to jon:

That is unbelievable.

Heres another scary ski video... head cam footage from a friend, i was watching from just above and thought he was definitely going to die.
Ben Briggs - on 05 Jan 2013
Milesy - on 05 Jan 2013
I thought they handled it not bad considering being chucked into the unknown.
NottsRich on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to Erik B: True, but people sometimes have a way of surviving and learning. It doesn't mean that they shouldn't have done it, or that everyone else is entitled to judge them.

But saying that, putting anything on the internet gives other people a chance to judge them, so maybe they are bringing it on themselves.
NottsRich on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to Milesy: Agreed.
ads.ukclimbing.com
andy - on 05 Jan 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Frank4short)
>
> You want inept... look as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amI8deUK2UM

This is interesting though - posting by the group leader (who was the one buried):

http://unofficialnetworks.com/echo-peak-avalanche-rescue-video-response-burial-victim-114661/
Misha - on 06 Jan 2013
In reply to andy:
Interesting. At least they all learnt! As for his dilemma: fair enough, could have been a loose glove. So a person without the ARVA skies down straight away to check it out while the person with the ARVA gets it ready for searching. Thus potentially saving time. Of course only an issue as not everyone had ARVAs! And why is the other person who went down not digging as well, even if he had no shovel he could have used his (gloved!) hands.

But the main point from the commentary is that they shouldn't have been there due to likely avalanche risk but went for it anyway. Something most people will do or be tempted to do at some point. So perhaps a reminder for us all! Good to have the footage and write up so we can learn from others' mistakes.
jon on 06 Jan 2013

In reply to Misha and Andy:

I don't know if it's better or worse to learn that the leader was the guy who was avalanched!

My favourite bit from this http://unofficialnetworks.com/echo-peak-avalanche-rescue-video-response-burial-victim-114661/ was:

> My glove was located above the debris, but what if my hand wasn’t in it?

It was waving, FFS.

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