/ grivel rambo 4 or G14 again

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itsThere on 18 Jan 2013
so what are peoples thoughts on G14 G20 G22 and the rambo 4. I like the idea of mono points with smaller side points for ice and mixed. Any thoughts on the rambos for scotland. Is it worth the extra 10. They will be going on a pair of omegas.
itsThere on 19 Jan 2013
In reply to itsThere: anyone
itsThere on 19 Jan 2013
In reply to itsThere: one last bump, anyone using rambos and what do you think of them compared to G14s ect
The Ex-Engineer - on 19 Jan 2013
In reply to itsThere: The reason you haven't got any replies, is probably that you are asking poorly worded questions without nearly enough details, either in the post or on your profile.

I'm afraid the general conclusion I draw (rightly or wrongly) is that you don't really have much clue about what you are asking about.

In short:
- for the average climber (i.e. leading HVS rock) it would be fairly silly to consider G20s or G22s for Scotland.
- Rambo 4s are slightly better choice than G20/22 but would still be a poor choice for most UK climbers (at least as their only pair of crampons).
- G14s are a great all-round crampon for Scotland and will cope with everything for easy snow plods up to anything 99% of use will ever climb, however Petzl Lynx and BD Cyborgs are possibly better options (if they fit your boots).

The long answer:

The main advantage of a fully rigid design (e.g. Rambo 4) is when climbing bullet-hard water ice, as you may get more penetration. They are also good for high-level continental style mixed routes (M8 upward) where you might want to use their heel spurs and hang upside down from them.

I doubt you will be climbing many M10s, so unless you plan to spend loads of time in Norway/Canada there is probably little reason for Rambos to be your first choice. (IMO Black Diamond Stingers are a better dedicated mono-point option for Scottish use.) Compared to G14s, Rambos are slightly lighter but they are also less suitable for easier mountaineering use. However, Petzl Lynx and BD Cyborgs are also lighter than G14s meaning that weight alone would be a poor reason to choose Rambo 4s.

As regards the G20 and G22, you would need to be very sure of your priorities (either hard mixed or hard water ice) to even consider them. The G20 would be excellent for Scottish mixed grade VII upward but would be a very poor choice most routes in the range grade III-V having absolutely NO laterally orientated points for steep snow descents. Equally, the G22 might excel in Norway or Canada on routes WI5 upwards but will have little if any utility in Scotland. In both cases, the Petzl Dart/Dartwin could be a better (albeit still not perfect) option for Scottish routes, mixed and ice respectively.

If really want to spend loads on money on shiny gear, go and see how well a pair of Petzl Lynx will fit your boots. Equally, if this is your first pair of crampons I'd suggest you consider just buying some Grivel Air Techs for 89.50 (see http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=535027 ). For 90% of UK climbers, they are more than sufficient.
Exile - on 19 Jan 2013
In reply to itsThere:

I use rambo 4s for ice and mixed from III to VI. They're excellent if you want a crampon primarily for climbing, I chose them over G14s as I like a fully rigid crampon, although this seems to be a little out of vogue at the moment. If you are going to do more walking than climbing, or easier routes, I'd look at G12s.
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
> In both cases, the Petzl Dart/Dartwin could be a better (albeit still not perfect) option for Scottish routes, mixed and ice respectively.

Just out of interest, but why exactly?
ice.solo - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to itsThere:

if its just scottish mixed id chose G20s. cant change the point,@point but you should get 3 seasons of use if you do about 15 days a winter (i get 2 seasons from mine and i do about 35 days a winter with G20s).

the others are all sweet crampons with their own pros and cons. in this case rambos may be heavier than you need, and G14s heftier with big teeth that you may not need.

G20s are nice and compact, light and all you really need in a crampon.

NOTE: ive never seen a pair on omegas, so best try em out first for compatability, or talk to Dane at coldthistle as he will know off the top of his head.

of course theres other choices from petzl, BD etc.
but winters half done, so the faster you decide, starp em on and get out there the better.
ice.solo - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

weird typo there re `@point`.
itsThere on 20 Jan 2013
Thanks for the advice from all. I only suggested grivel stuff to keep it simple since there is alot on the market, i am looking at other brands too. I know monopoints are great for mixed but i also like the idea of the second smaller point on the rambo. However i may not need it, since everyone else is fine with monopoints. But two front points can make life easier. But a compromise would also be good. Which brings me back to the rambo's second smaller point being helpful. I will be buying them for climbing and maybe some drytooling.

I also dont want to buy a pair of G12's and think will i have got more out of another crampon. I dont want two pairs, even if walking isnt great, but it never is in B3 boots.

Feel free to correct me if this isnt correct or im just being stupid.
The Ex-Engineer - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to TobyA:
> Just out of interest, but why exactly?

The G20/22 only have a minimal number of downward points and none of them are laterally orientated. In comparison the Dart/Dartwin have an extra set of lateral points at the rear of the front section.

I would therefore be much happier to use the Petzl crampons in a wider variety of snow conditions than the Grivels. However I would still absolutely not recommend either of them as being suitable as a sole pair of crampons.

See http://coldthistle.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/vertical-front-point-crampons.html for a much better discussion of this issue and many others.
The Ex-Engineer - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to itsThere:
> I dont want two pairs,
> Feel free to correct me if this isnt correct or im just being stupid.

Your choice, but I do genuinely think that for a UK-based climber/mountaineer having an overly technical set of crampons as your sole pair is stupid.

Climbers generally all want to spend their time on the hardest routes but in practice that never really happens and pretty much all the UK-based winter climbers I know spend an extensive amount of time on moderate terrain. As such, owning crampons suitable for moderate terrain is extremely sensible. I've used numerous crampons over the years and I'm now convinced that having a pair of general mountaineering crampons (in my case, Air Techs) alongside one or more technical crampons (in may case Stingers) is a better long-term option.

However, if you are absolutely certain you just want one pair, then Cyborgs, Lynx and G14s are all sufficiently capable all-rounders that I cannot see any reason to buy anything other than one of them.
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Captain Gear - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to itsThere:

> I dont want two pairs, even if walking isnt great, but it never is in B3 boots.

The Ex Engineer is talking a fair amount of sense, as usual.

I'd listen to him and buy a pair of grivel airtechs for 90. They will do you fine up Scottish V and are much more versitile. They're also lighter which is worth bearing in mind if you intend to climb in the Alps in summer (where you'll end up carrying your boots and crampons up routes and wearing rockshoes on quite a few routes).

As you progress onto Scottish VI mixed or if you go on an icefall climbing holiday you'll probably want to buy a pair of monos.

I own Petzl Darts at the moment and whilst they are great crampons it isn't possible to fit anti bailing plates to them, which is a pain. It also isn't possible to replace the front points, which means they don't last as long as other models. FWIV I'd probably buy BD Stingers if I was buying again tomorrow.

However, as long as they fit your boots, you can't go wrong with G14s, Cyborgs, Stingers or the Petzl Lynx.

HTH

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