/ Ground Up winter guidebooks. Definitive?

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Some Random Climber - on 20 Jan 2013
In the recent Ground Up guidebook: North Wales Winter Climbing, the coverage given to Ysgolion Duon, Clogwyn Du and the one or two other definitively covered venues is commendable: superb even. The standard of the writing, layout and construction is excellent and of the usual Ground up quality. So, why not complete the rest of the area to the same high standard? I'm just curious as to what their rationale was when deciding to not definitively document the whole region?
I notice one or two routes have a caveat relating to a, 'guess-grade' or that the climb hasn't been checked etc., so why not include the other areas detailed in the out of date Campbell / Newton guide into the new guide with similar 'warnings', thus avoiding the need to cart around two books?
The latest guide is, on the whole, a beautiful piece of work and it seems a shame that it's not complete. Are there any plans for a full definitive guide? I hope so... especially as recent developments have rendered the current guidebook out-of-date already. ;-)
Mike Peacock on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Some Random Climber: It was published as an interim guide, as an up to date book was needed, especially for the hard routes that have been going up over the last few years. I think a definitive guide was supposed to follow at some point but I don't know when.
Adam Long - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Some Random Climber:

Sounds like you want the moon on a stick to me! It's hard enough checking every route in a rock guidebook. Welsh winters are ephemeral at best, some of these routes may not have formed since they were done, and details on the older ones are often sketchy. I suspect delaying publication til every one had been checked would be like painting the forth bridge... you'd never finish! It's certainly preferable to another ten years with the old guide! I also think there's a lot to be said for leaving a bit of vagueness in a guide for those who enjoy the exploratory aspect, and I think the right balance was struck.
Ander on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Some Random Climber:

Not, its not definitive- I'm not sure that Ground Up do any definitive guidebooks.

The reason, I'd expect, is that any guidebook production is very expensive... it's a lot more than just writing the words and adding some lines on photo.

Particularly if you're interested in the lower grades, then get your mitts on the old guidebook!

If you think you need help with finding routes (route description reading is a rapidly diminishing skill amongst climbers) then get both, and with a bit of applied intelligence you'll have a good guide to what Welsh Winter can offer for the few days it's in every year!
Some Random Climber - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Adam Long:

No pal, I'm not wanting everything on a plate and I think my post made that clear when I wrote the 'guess grade' comment. I'm an old-school adventure orientated climber - certainly not spoon fed. :-)
All I am after is a reason as to why Ground Up didn't simply add everything into one volume: Copy & Paste the old guide. It's not rocket science. It was a simple question.

Some Random Climber - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Ander:

Mate, please RFQ.
Tom Hutton - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Some Random Climber:
> (In reply to Adam Long)
>
> No pal, I'm not wanting everything on a plate and I think my post made that clear when I wrote the 'guess grade' comment. I'm an old-school adventure orientated climber - certainly not spoon fed. :-)
> All I am after is a reason as to why Ground Up didn't simply add everything into one volume: Copy & Paste the old guide. It's not rocket science. It was a simple question.

Erm... copyright?
Steve Perry - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Adam Long:
> (In reply to Some Random Climber)
>
I also think there's a lot to be said for leaving a bit of vagueness in a guide for those who enjoy the exploratory aspect, and I think the right balance was struck.

A vague guide book, that's a new one, if you were an exploratory person you wouldn't buy a guide and if you did buy one you want it to...err..guide you.

Tyler - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Some Random Climber:

Maybe this thread will help:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=442275&v=1#x6214351

As well as your own contributions it includes comments from the author himself so I'm not sure what extra you expect to find out by starting this thread.
Some Random Climber - on 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Tyler:

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten all about that. Scrap this thread: I've just re-read the old one.

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