/ Undoing the bolts on Quarks - help!

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climbingronnie - on 22 Jan 2013
I'm trying to replace the picks on my Quarks, does anyone know which way the bolts in the head should turn to undo? Can't get any of them to budge, currently soaking them in WD40 before trying again...

Not that I imagine they'll have changed, but my axes are the previous version to the ones currently on sale.

Any help appreciated!
butteredfrog - on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie:

Try soaking the heads in boiling water (or as hot as you can get).
grithugger on 22 Jan 2013 - host81-141-227-28.wlms-broadband.com
In reply to drumming_ronnie: blow torch them for a couple of mintes,then freezing cold wter onthem then left for loose right for tight.
kirsten on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie: I'm having the same problem trying to get the clipper leash bolts undone :(
davy_boy - on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to grithugger: not a great idea as this could cause cracking or hardening of the metal around them. heating them up will loosen them but dont pour cold water on them just let them cool naturaly.
wilkie14c - on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie:
Anti clockwise for undoing stuff unless its something like a wheel hub where the left had side one will be a left hand thread. don't concern yourself with that though, it'll most def be anti clockwise. Are these bolts or hex headed things? <allen key> If the latter I'd look at investing in or borrowing an impact driver, this is like a big thick screwdriver and you hit it with a hammer, the downward force of the hammer blow is turned through 90 deg to tighten or loosen stuff. The plus point of the impact driver is that the hammer blow will keep the hex headed bit deep within the bolts socket and reduce the risk of chewing up the hex socket in the bolt. If they chew up there is nothing to drill and drilling out is the only option. If you can't get access to an impact driver ask a garage or engineering shop to do it for you, it would only take a few seconds. If they are 6 sided bolt head don't use a ring spanner as these only grip the corners of the hex shape, not the flat. Use an open spanner that grips the flats or a socket set with flat gripping sockets. HTH
Ander on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie:

Use a piece of pipe to give you more leverage by slotting it over the alan key. I used an old ice screw to do this... but any pipe would do, so long as it doesn't bend.

Go to the Petzl website, download their maintenance dowmload pdf and it describes this there, if you've any doubt.
Dave Kerr - on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie:

Make sure you use a good quality allen key as crap ones will round out the heads.
butteredfrog - on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to Dave Kerr:

If they are Allen headed bolts and v.tight, a male torx socket lightly tapped in is usually more successful than an allen key at undoing without rounding things.
wilkie14c - on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to Ander: Could even hold the key pointing upwards in a vice and slot into the hole and use the axe itself as the lever. Personally I'd be shitting myself about rounding it out knowing what a ball ache of a job it is to drill bolts out. Good luck and take great care
cuppatea on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie:

When in doubt....WD40 ;-)
Ander on 22 Jan 2013
climbingronnie - on 22 Jan 2013


Thanks for the suggestions all. I had already checked Petzl's advice, trying to increase the leverage on the Allen key seems to be the answer though will have to improvise without dedicated tools or a vice. I figured it was lefty loosey but wondered if any one knew any better! Will have another bash (literally!) tomorrow.

Incidentally, I wouldn't use (nor do I own!) a blow torch but wondered how heating would help loosen when surely it would cause the metal to expand? My limited knowledge of materials/physics would make me think that it would be better to cool it...

davy_boy - on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie: idealy you want to heat the nut so that it expands and keep the bolt cool then try removing not always easy to do though. a general heat up then let it cool down usualy helps loosen anything thats locking the threads together though ie normaly corrosion or threadlock compound. i would personnaly be looking to use a socket hex bit as these are harder to round of the bolt head with compared with a normal allen key.
The Ex-Engineer - on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie:
> Incidentally, I wouldn't use (nor do I own!) a blow torch but wondered how heating would help loosen when surely it would cause the metal to expand? My limited knowledge of materials/physics would make me think that it would be better to cool it...

I think you're right.

The thermal expansion of aluminium is about twice that of steel so if you think friction against the aluminium head is stopping the bolt turning, then it would be well worth sticking the axe in the deep freeze so that the aluminium shrinks more than the nut/bolt.
climber david - on 22 Jan 2013
In reply to davy_boy:
> (In reply to drumming_ronnie) i would personnaly be looking to use a socket hex bit as these are harder to round of the bolt head with compared with a normal allen key.

The only possible problem with that is that istead of rounding the corners, the head of the bit can shear off and get stuck in the head of the bolt. Saw it happen on my cousins nomics. this resulted in a couple of hours trying to coax out the stuck bit before getting some decent allen keys.

I think decent allen keys and a vice are the best way, although with out a vice I'm not sure what I'd do

krikoman - on 23 Jan 2013
In reply to climber david:
> (In reply to davy_boy)
> [...]

> I think decent allen keys and a vice are the best way, although with out a vice I'm not sure what I'd do

^^
Nice vice advice.
davy_boy - on 23 Jan 2013
In reply to climber david: a decent socket bit wont shear off as easily as a cheap one though and still less likely than an allen key to round of as you can keep it square to the head while still applying more force. you get what you pay for with tools :)
jkarran - on 23 Jan 2013
In reply to grithugger:

> blow torch them for a couple of mintes,then freezing cold wter onthem then left for loose right for tight.

Not a very good idea on highly stressed and safety critical heat treated steel. Judge it right and you loosen the bolts, judge it wrong and you change the temper of the picks.

jk
cuppatea on 23 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie:

I'd be happier adding an extension to the allen key, rather than holding it in a vice and using the axe as a lever - I think it would be much easier to ensure the allen key was in the right place and there would be less chance if anything slipping and rounding off
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SCC - on 23 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie:

If you're struggling to find something to use as a lever on the allen key - you can use a ring spanner quite succesfully.

It's pretty obvious how to do it if you just have a play.

Definitely advise clamping the axe securely rather than the allen key as mentioned above.

Si
jkarran - on 23 Jan 2013
In reply to drumming_ronnie:

If you haven't got a vice you can use a hard edged step, just stand on the key in stiff soled shoes and turn the axe.

jk
scrabblingpunter - on 23 Jan 2013
When you have been successful and are putting everything together again I would think about putting something on the threads to stop the bolts binding again. Sailors use Tef-gel when fixing stainless fittings to aluminium masts - expensive but a tube will last a long time or you could use something from a bike shop or just a small dab of grease.
climbingronnie - on 23 Jan 2013
In reply to scrabblingpunter:

If only I'd read that 10mins ago! Ah well, never mind...

Success! Soaked the bolts in DW40 and left the axes out in the cold conservatory overnight.

Then inserted the allen key so it was at the same angle as the pick, turned the axe on its head and put my foot on the allen key to hold it then applied brute force to the other end of the axe. Longer levers and a bit of lubrication was just enough to do the trick :)

Repeated six times, now I have one slightly sore foot and two shiny new picks!

Thanks for the advice and happy winter climbing all!

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