/ Scarpa Phantom Guide fit vs Charmoz/Triolet

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rockstoned on 24 Jan 2013
Does anyone know how the Charmoz/Triolet (FT last) fit & sizing compares with the Phantom Guide (AG last)?

I'm a 45 in street shoes with quite wide high volume feet.
I wear a 46 in the Triolet/Charmoz with a thin liner & medium thickness socks, which fits perfectly.

Should I get 46 in the Phantom Guides too, are they similar in fit to the Charmoz?
rockstoned on 24 Jan 2013
Anyone?
AdCo82 on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:

try them in a shop then you'll know.

how does anyone on here know if they'll fit your feet!
Denni on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:

The only useless advice I can add is that I also have Triolets and old style Phantom Lites in a 45. I wear a pair of thin liner socks and a pair of medium thickness socks in both and they both fit exactly the same.

I didn't even try on the Lites because I know that a Scarpa 45 fits me perfectly.

I reckon this information is fairly irrelevant so I'll go with a stock UKC answer, try some on?
rockstoned on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to An Triubhas: Obviously I'd try them on if they were available locally.

I was expecting your kind of reply, but secretly hoping that an intelligently formed question would elicit an intelligent response!

AdCo82 on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:

the intelligent response is to recommend trying them on.

nobody can advice regarding your feet!
rockstoned on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to Denni: Looks like the Phantom Lites also used the FT last. Thanks anyhow mate. I'll probably just buy a 46 and hope for the best
Denni on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:

I think you're prolly right. A size bigger is probably a good idea.
My mate has them but has struggled to find decent crampons for them.

Do you have any in mind at all?
DanielJ - on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned
Ive got wide feet and phantom guide did not fit at all. Toebox is more narrow than freneys and a lot more narrow than on jorasses. I ended up with jorasses which im happy with.
rockstoned on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to Denni: This is what I've found scouring the web:

- Petzl Vasak, good fit with any binding
- Petzl Dart & Dartwin, the most perfect fit (no anti-snow option)
- G14 (with G20 front bails) for perfect fit (modular but expensive)
- Petzl Lynx with some toe bail bending (modular but expensive)

I'm looking for an all-round crampon so it's down to G14 and the Lynx. Going with the Lynx since I already own a few Petzl crampons and the parts are interchangeable. I could live with having to bend the toe bail slightly to get the best fit.

Useful links:
http://gearthirty.blogspot.fr/2012/05/scarpa-phantom-guide-vs-la-sportiva.html
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/scarpa-phantom-guides-and-toe-bail-tweaks/10779247
Cameron94 on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned: I use the guide and the charmoz and have to say the fit is completely different. The charmoz give's me a really tight snug fit over the whole foot whereas the guide is quite roomy. I would go up a size if you're in doubt but be aware of the extra space that will create.

I'll echo what the others have said however annoying it is but your best bet is to find somewhere to try them even if that means traveling a bit.
Denni on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:

Cheers matey, I'll pass that info onto him.
He is currently using modified G14's and not a happy chappy!
Cameron94 on 24 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned: Also I have a pair of G14's which I haven't really used much but they do fit quite well, that's with the new-matic binding.
rockstoned on 25 Jan 2013
In reply to DanielJ:
> Ive got wide feet and phantom guide did not fit at all. Toebox is more narrow than freneys and a lot more narrow than on jorasses.

Are we talking the old Jorasses or the new Jorasses Pro? I ask because the old one used the AE last, but the newer Pro uses same one as the Phantom Guides, ie AG, so logically the fit would be identical. I think the older Jorasses and Freney were very similar boots in fit

rockstoned on 25 Jan 2013
In reply to Cameron94:
> I use the guide and the charmoz and have to say the fit is completely different. The charmoz give's me a really tight snug fit over the whole foot whereas the guide is quite roomy.

That's pretty much the info I was looking for. Would you say it's roomier in the toe box?

My Charmoz in 46 is quite snug with 2 pairs of socks. If the Guides are roomier in the same size, then that's perfect.

Cheers for the replies!
rockstoned on 25 Jan 2013
I prefer using a crampon with front bail, there's less clutter on the boot this way. The great thing about the Petzl Lynx is that you get both step-in and toe bail bindings, so even if the bail wire doesn't give a perfect fit I'm happy to use the straps.
Paul035 - on 25 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:

I have phantom guide size 46. Most comfortable b3 boot I've worn. I'm a 46 in other boots as well, but with the ph. Guides I wear 2 pairs of socks and there's a bit of space but not so much to give any movement. I also use sorbothane insoles as the boot soles are thin to keep the weight down so the extra cushioning is great.

I had freneys before which blistered my feet to bits.

The one thing to get right is crampons for the phantom Guides. I have had G14's (newmatics) a while which ended up with poor front point protrusion and points going in the way when worn with the phantom guides. Made them monos which have been fine with the Guides. Still wanted dual points so got petzl lynx's as they seem to be the most adaptable, but even on most extreme set up where the protrusion is good, the front points still go in the way rather than straight out. Going to look closer at the links provided above for any answers...

Once I get this resolved hunky dorey. Really good performing boots, and been comfortable on some decent walk-in/ outs (the Ben, Lochnagar etc)
Gazlynn - on 25 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:

I got both the guides and the chamoz. My personal preference is a 43 in the chamoz and a 42.5 in the guide.

Crampons, I've found that the Petzl toe bails fit best with the guides. So although I have sabertooth crampons I swapped the BD toe bail to Petzl ones. Hope this makes sense

Cheers

Gaz
Cameron94 on 25 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:
> (In reply to Cameron94)
> [...]
>
Would you say it's roomier in the toe box?
>
>


I think the volume around the toe is quite high so I have to lace the lower boot to get it snug around the top of my foot. I wouldn't say it was wide though.
rockstoned on 25 Jan 2013
Great, thanks for your input guys.

In reply to Paul035:
>
> Still wanted dual points so got petzl lynx's as they seem to be the most adaptable, but even on most extreme set up where the protrusion is good, the front points still go in the way rather than straight out. Going to look closer at the links provided above for any answers...

People on the mountainproject forum are suggesting that to get the frontpoints to point more forward rather than in (which is what I think is your problem too?) the linking bars should be flipped over, which with some fiddling apparently gives good results.

It would be amazing if you could try this and share your findings.
Paul035 - on 25 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:

Ok this weekend will try and report back....
DanielJ - on 25 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:
Talking about the freney gtx 3-4 years old and the new jorasses PRO. The fit in real life, jorasses pro vs phantom guide, is way different. As well as ultra vs guide, which also shares the same last. You really need to try couple of boots and in different sizes before youre buying to make sure they fit your feet in the best way.
rockstoned on 25 Jan 2013
In reply to DanielJ: Ok that's interesting to know, thanks. The insulation material inside the Guide is different to the Ultra, so I guess it changes the fit.

Chamonix is 1hr away from me, but nobody is stocking the PG in 46. Looks like I have to purchase it online from the UK. But by the sounds of it I hopefully won't have to return it and the 46 will fit me
Paul035 - on 26 Jan 2013
> People on the mountainproject forum are suggesting that to get the frontpoints to point more forward rather than in (which is what I think is your problem too?) the linking bars should be flipped over, which with some fiddling apparently gives good results.
>
> It would be amazing if you could try this and share your findings.


Yes certainly looks much better doing this, along with the crampons set up in the most extreme setting to negate the curve of the boots. Front points are very nearly straight, and good protrusion. Yet to try in anger, but from the comfort of my kitchen I can probably conquer anything in them now..
Ronan O Keeffe on 26 Jan 2013
In reply to Paul035:
Just tried it as well myself with both the normal bars and the long bars.
Long bars seem ever so slightly straighter, but only by a degree or two.
Either way its night and day compared with the previous inward pointing configuration.

Front wire bail is positioned in front hole outside of foot, middle hole inside of foot. I haven't messed with this setting yet.
Phantom guides size 45. Petzl lynx with long bars just to be clear.

Kind of embarrassed that I didn't think of swapping the bars around myself.
Many thanks to OP and rockstoned.
Ronan O Keeffe on 26 Jan 2013
In reply to rockstoned:
I mean paul035 and rockstoned!
rockstoned on 26 Jan 2013
In reply to Paul035:

Excellent, this has turned out to be a useful thread all round!

With respect to the safety of reversing the linking bars, Petzl officially calls them "Reversible Linking Bars", so we can assume they'll be fine?

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