/ beta sticks

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tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
Why not just top rope and stop bolting crags?

Durbs on 30 Jan 2013
Climbing:

Why not just do what you enjoy, and let others do the same?
Wainers44 - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
> Why not just top rope while bolting crags?

There, fixed it
tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Durbs:

because if we did, the crags would all be bolted. Chipped, sorry improved, holds, glued and bolted on holds would proliferate. birds nests and rare flora would be decimated. People would drive 4x4s all over our precious uplands.

Therefore, is it not justified to question the sanitation of our crags to keep making them increasingly safer for the risk averse?

Plus i used to think people were being good sorts by bringing litter pickers to the crag
Ramblin dave - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
Because clipsticking your way up something is part of a process (redpointing) that's working up to a clean lead. It's not the end goal in itself.

Next question.
Kid Spatula - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:

And the winner of this years most original thread is.........
tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

what's wrong with top rope practice if you feel the need?
Ramblin dave - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
Because you can't always get to the top to set up a top rope.

And why is top rope practice any better than clipstick practice if you're working a sport route?
Lord_ash2000 - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:You don't do a lot of sport climbing do you? You use a clip stick to pre place quickdraws or to clip the rop in the bolt above in order to aid to the lower of point of a route so that you can work it on top rope before going for a lead.

Not that it would matter much to you though as I assume when you go climbing you walk up to the catwalk at Malham and just onsight the routes using the little to no trad protection and top out the crag before bringing up your second.
tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

you're right, i don't sport climb. Yes i do top out, a route ain't finished otherwise. If trad gear ain't there, i don't drill holes in the rock, i leave it for someone with more talent and courage.

Wasn't looking for a bunfight, was looking for explanations.
tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Kid Spatula:

original to me. I've only come across these things recently. Seen them at crags, thought they were climbers with litter pickers to clean up the piles of chalk wrappers and used finger tape that seem to be growing.

Only clicked when i saw them in climbing shop.

Excuse my ignorance.

And the winner for the most condescending answer to an honest question goes to...
thermal_t - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
> (In reply to Lord_ash2000)

> Wasn't looking for a bunfight

Come off it!
tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to thermal_t:

Not at all.

I don't like bolts, or people with their litter pickers.

But at least thanks to ramblin Dave i actually understand there intended use now.

That's what i wanted to know.

If you want a bunfight over them, go...
The Pylon King on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:

Sport climbers are gear freaks and highly fashion conscious and will buy any old shit contraption to look cool at the crag with.
Kid Spatula - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:

Trad climbers are all fat middle aged men with beards.
tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Mr Mark Stephen Davies:
> (In reply to moraldecay)
>
> Sport climbers are gear freaks and highly fashion conscious and will buy any old shit contraption to look cool at the crag with.

You got that right!!!

And we're off.
Jonny2vests - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
> (In reply to Lord_ash2000)
>
> you're right, i don't sport climb. Yes i do top out, a route ain't finished otherwise. If trad gear ain't there, i don't drill holes in the rock, i leave it for someone with more talent and courage.
>
> Wasn't looking for a bunfight, was looking for explanations.

I see, so Malham should have been left for some trad heroes who would have had to ground up it to the top on god knows what gear. I get the feeling that maybe you haven't quite thought this through.
Adam Lincoln - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
> Why not just top rope and stop bolting crags?

Says the person that came on an internet forum to slate people who he could only ever dream of climbing harder than. And yes, these sport climbers solo the stuff you can only ever dream of leading on trad.

Small penis? Inferiority complex? Jealousy? All three?

Why not start concentrating on your own climbing instead of trying to be-little people doing there own thing and enjoying themselves. After all, isn't that why we all go climbing?

Though you seem to have missed the point of it all. So why don't you crawl back under your stone and leave us all to carry on doing what we love and enjoy, without people like you trying to tell us whats right and wrong. Where you bullied at school? Or are you actually still at school?
tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Any more abuse?

If you read earlier post, ramblin dave answered my question for me. Last remark was ironic.

Small penis? Average id say. Inferiority complex? Couldn't care about how good i an in relation to other people. Jealousy? I've never seen anything worth being jealous of. Crawl back under my stone? Because you say so, i don't think so. Was i bullied at school? See last answer. Still at school? Well, one never stops learning, hence original question.
Jonny2vests - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> (In reply to moraldecay)
> [...]
>
I hope nobody replies to his persona non-grata thread, the irony is killing me.
tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to jonny2vests:
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
> [...]
> I hope nobody replies to his persona non-grata thread, the irony is killing me.

Good for you. Other peoples anxieties obviously amuse you.
tommycoopersghost on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to jonny2vests:

To answer your other question, i am neither 17 or 70, i am simply anonymous :-}>
The Pylon King on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> (In reply to moraldecay)
> [...]
>
> Says the person that came on an internet forum to slate people who he could only ever dream of climbing harder than. And yes, these sport climbers solo the stuff you can only ever dream of leading on trad.
>
> Small penis? Inferiority complex? Jealousy? All three?
>
> Why not start concentrating on your own climbing instead of trying to be-little people doing there own thing and enjoying themselves. After all, isn't that why we all go climbing?
>
> Though you seem to have missed the point of it all. So why don't you crawl back under your stone and leave us all to carry on doing what we love and enjoy, without people like you trying to tell us whats right and wrong. Where you bullied at school? Or are you actually still at school?

So, you own a clipstick, nevermind.
Fraser on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
> Why not just top rope and stop bolting crags?

Ummm, forgive my ignorance but what's that question got to do with beta sticks?

Andúril - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Jesus, calm down. What a pleasant person you sound.
Jonny2vests - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> Good for you. Other peoples anxieties obviously amuse you.

Who's anxieties? Who's persona non-grata? Or are you looking for a list of png people? What is the thread about?
Bulls Crack - on 30 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
> Why not just top rope and stop bolting crags?

Blimey - you're very retro aren't you?!
3 Names - on 31 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:

Because your a right thicko!
I like climbing - on 31 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
Not looking to fight anyone here but I've never actually heard a clip stick called a beta stick. I thought it was just a stick you point at holds with when someone is training on a bouldering wall.
I'm sure I may well be wrong but I'd be interested if someone could put me right on this.
daveh444 - on 31 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:
> Why not just top rope and stop bolting crags?

Have you seen the damage top ropes can do ? !
if everyone took your advice then all crags would look like most of the southern sandstone ! Why not just stop your drivel and wind your neck in a bit !
daveh444 - on 31 Jan 2013
In reply to I like climbing:

Beta is a brand name for the company who make clip stick's so yeah, Beta stick/clip stick = same thing
I like climbing - on 31 Jan 2013
In reply to daveh444:
> (In reply to I like climbing)
>
> Beta is a brand name for the company who make clip stick's so yeah, Beta stick/clip stick = same thing

Thank you :)
needvert on 31 Jan 2013
In reply to moraldecay:

Not sure why, but we never use clip sticks on sports routes.

Been thinking about getting one, but can't help think it'll feel like cheating.

See plenty of other people with them, suppose I should get one, pride isn't worth a broken ankle.
Jonny2vests - on 31 Jan 2013
In reply to needvert:
> (In reply to moraldecay)
>
> Not sure why, but we never use clip sticks on sports routes.
>
> Been thinking about getting one, but can't help think it'll feel like cheating.
>
> See plenty of other people with them, suppose I should get one, pride isn't worth a broken ankle.

Its brilliant if you want to chuck a rope down a project, you can bolt to bolt your way to the top of something well out of your league and have a play on it.

Plus low bolts are often a waste of money because they're useless as soon as your above them. Better I think to place high first bolts that are worth something, save on bolts, and assume people will have clip sticks. Some bolters out there certainly do seem to assume that.
bouldery bits - on 31 Jan 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost:

You lot are weird.
tommycoopersghost on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to daveh444:

interesting.

Never had my neck wound in by anyone. Maybe you're the dobber to do it?
tommycoopersghost on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to Vince McNally:
> (In reply to moraldecay)
>
> Because your a right thicko!

Whoa! Easy there tiger!

tommycoopersghost on 01 Feb 2013
drivel, thicko, wind your neck in, etc.

2vests, Lincoln. You are just plain offensive to me for no reason.

Well Lincoln, 2braincells, Davewhatever, and the last abuser i can't be assed to remember,

I'm calling you out!
bpmclimb - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost:

I prefer trad climbing to sport, probably just because that's what I got into first, and I've done far more of it. I do, however, own a clipstick, because I do a bit of sport climbing, and find it very useful when working a route, or when onsighting a route with a high first clip.
Jonny2vests - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost:
> drivel, thicko, wind your neck in, etc.
>
> 2vests, Lincoln. You are just plain offensive to me for no reason.


Haha, I think that's a bite. Personal attack, the last defence of the ill-informed.

rtwilli4 - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost:

Am I the only person who doesn't know what a beta stick is? I do sport climb btw.
paul__in_sheffield - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to rtwilli4: beta is the trade name for a brand of clip stick, there are others like Squids which fit on the end of standard painters poles.
Maybe it depends where you climb? Certainly see a lot on hard peak sport, and am currently on the Costa Blanca and lots of the locals seem to use them for working harder routes.
I got the technical one which folds up small enough to fit in hold luggage.
Certainly good for protecting from a gound fall on the first couple of clips, and working bolt to bolt on harder climbs. Pretty good for brushing off high holds on boulder problems too.
sihills - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to everyone:

And everything that is bad about ukc in one thread, abuse, elitism, trolling, etc etc. does noone just go out and enjoy climbing anymore and not worry about what other people are doing and thinking!
John W - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost:

If you climb in places like the Ith, all the really hard (for normal humans) routes are well bolted - but if you happen to be a low or mid-grade climber, coming off before cliping the first bolt is likely to be seriously hazardous to your health! Hence the use of clip-sticks.

As for just chucking a toprope down, most of the butress tops are "no go" ares for environmental reasons.

rtwilli4 - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

Ya i was sort of joking. I assumed it was some kind of stick clip. They've always seemed a bit silly to me. I do understand the reason for having one, but I've spent most of my adult life doing all sorts of climbing and I just can't bring myself to carry one around. If I really need to clip the first bolt I usually figure out how to get it done either by making a stick clip, borrowing one, or warming up on another route and clipping said bolt on the way down.

I spent three years in Thailand and worked on hard routes quite often. Never wanted or needed to clip up a route though. I'd rather work moves on lead and there are loads of ways to get yr draws back at the end of the day.

bpmclimb - on 03 Feb 2013
In reply to rtwilli4:
> (In reply to paul__in_sheffield)
>
> They've always seemed a bit silly to me.

Silly? It's relatively cheap, light, you can stash it easily on the outside of your sac, and does the job neatly and quickly. I'd call it sensible.
tommycoopersghost on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to jonny2vests:

Haha, I think that's a bite. Personal attack, the last defence of the ill-informed.

You're wrong then ain't ya me old China.

It wasn't the last line of defence of the ill informed.

It was the first line of offence against the self righteous, self important, arrogant with nothing to be arrogant about, trolling, nasty, twisted, wanker that you are.

You were personally abusive. You refuse to man up and apologise.

I called you out, and you respond with more pedantic abuse. Now everyone knows exactly what you are!

the power - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost:
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
>
> Haha, I think that's a bite. Personal attack, the last defence of the ill-informed.
>
> You're wrong then ain't ya me old China.
>
> It wasn't the last line of defence of the ill informed.
>
> It was the first line of offence against the self righteous, self important, arrogant with nothing to be arrogant about, trolling, nasty, twisted, wanker that you are.
>
> You were personally abusive. You refuse to man up and apologise.
>
> I called you out, and you respond with more pedantic abuse. Now everyone knows exactly what you are!

why have you waited 5 days to reply?
tommycoopersghost on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to the power:
> (In reply to tommycoopersghost)
> [...]
>
> why have you waited 5 days to reply?

Because i was shiting mesen, in case you questioned me, the power

Nez - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost: lets all hold hands for a minute, count to 10, check ball/penis/ego size then go soloing. that'll sort it
the power - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost:
> (In reply to the power)
> [...]
>
> Because i was shiting mesen, in case you questioned me, the power

Your wasting your time on me my friend
doz - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost: Is using a clipstick ethically equivalent to standing on your mate's shoulders??
GridNorth - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to doz: Only if you use it to pull up on.
mudcow79 on 17 Feb 2013
In response to some of the above, who's justification of bolts/bolting in general is due to the lack of trad gear then I'd say bollocks really. Maybe some places especially those as majestic as the malham main wall should have just been left alone, unclimbed untouched etc.. Just because it's there and impossibly blank dosen't in my eyes warrant a bolt. Yes some of those lines had been aid climbed for many years but that was before pegging and the like became anathema.
And in response to someone above who said something along the lines of, sport climbers solo at levels we could only dream of, well that's bollocks as well. I'd be curious to see how many of the afforementioned bolt climbers would even entertain half the hard trad lines on malhams right wallif all the bolted lines were out of bounds due to bird nesting restrictions.
I do understand why beta sticks are used and what for and folk are free to do as they please, but like someone said above 'each to their own', which means I'm also welcome to laugh my arse off at those with beta sticks whenever I'm sticking my neck out on a hard trad line at kilnsey and the like.
jkarran - on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to tommycoopersghost:

> Wasn't looking for a bunfight, was looking for explanations.

Don't be soft, of course you were. It's a bog standard repetetive troll almost word for word.

Perhaps you ought to try understanding something before you criticise it?
jk
mudcow79 on 17 Feb 2013
I forgot to add in my above reply that: I'm not oppose to a bolt or two here and there, especially on the blank wall of dinorwic, but I do feel thAt bolts and sport climbing are the cancer of a number of beautiful places/crags here in the dales and elsewhere. But like a friend once said to me, 'how can you complain when on a beautiful sunny day you've got the whole right wall of malham all to ourselves.
jon on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to mudcow79 and tommycoopersghost:

> which means I'm also welcome to laugh my arse off at those with beta sticks whenever I'm sticking my neck out on a hard trad line

You might like to read the following Gogarth route description. I've taken it from here: http://gogarth.wetpaint.com/page/Easter+Island+Gully

> The Ragged Runnel E5 6a 50m.
> A good adventure through 'territory'. Ascend the first pitch of Wandering Wall, free climbing past the fishing rod manoeuvre (possible stance here). Arrange some protection and battle with the roof. Place some more good gear round on the wall above before the legs collapse, then go up the shattered **** to a rest on a tiny ledge. Continue up the disintegrating scoop above past a possible spike belay. The top requires some care. (It would be possible to escape onto the Wonderwall side of the zawn after the easier ground is reached). Belay well back on the path down to the zawn. The route in no way supersedes Wandering Wall, it is merely an alternative exploit for those without fishing rods.
> G.Smith. (on-sight, completely in bulk). (28/8/91).

It refers in a couple of places to the 'fishing rod move'. I should explain that those well known sport climbers Joe Brown and Jimmy Jewell made the first ascent of Wandering wall by using a fishing rod to pass the rope behind a chockstone for protection. Boody stick clips, eh?
Bulls Crack - on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to mudcow79:
But like a friend once said to me, 'how can you complain when on a beautiful sunny day you've got the whole right wall of malham all to ourselves.

Well you can't can you?! People over to the left of you are enjoying their thing and you're enjoying your thing!

Sounds pretty good to me!
mudcow79 on 17 Feb 2013
In response to Bulls crack, absolutely yes and that's why I included it in my thread.
Opinion's are like arse holes though aren't they.........

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