/ Setting up a shunt....

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molly2202 - on 01 Feb 2013
Can someone with experience of this advise on best way to set up a shunt? Either using a Grigri or Petzyl Shunt thing. My question is more sround best knot, anchors etc, and things to keep in mind.....

Im having a big push on my grades this year, and have moved to Ilkley recently so have good rock on my doorstep. Are there some places where ethically it'd be frowned upon?

Climbed for years, never used a shunt, just a bored belayer!!

I have my ideas for setting up, but want someone to confirm my thoughts if at all possible....
Big Jim The Climber - on 01 Feb 2013
Monk - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202:

Basically, just set up as you would to abseil, but protect the rope where it goes over the edge. Static ropes are better, if you have one, but normal climbing ropes work too - just be aware that if you fall off close to the ground, you will hit it (possibly from several metres up).
molly2202 - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202: MMm as I thought, and advice on device? Grigri suit?
Big Jim The Climber - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202: I've used a shunt on a 60cm sling on a static rope, has always seemed easier than using a grigri to me, but I may well be wrong!
Monk - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202:

I use a Petzl basic (which is the one I think that Petzl recommend for this use). Works well for me. I also use a ropeman on a second rope sometimes, which works less well (but I like the added security).
jimjimjim on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202: i have used a stunt on a 10.5 mm climbing rope. I tie the spare rope in a bundle just off the floor once weighted to help the stunt slide up. Works well once you get used to it.
dwisniewski - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202: If I'm working a route on my own I just use a Petzl shunt clipped directly to my belay loop with a locking krab, would probably be better using something like a DMM belay master to stop the krab cross loading, never got round to getting one. Usually weight the rope by tying my rucksack or rack on the end of the rope and have always found it runs smoothly enough.

Normally have a gri-gri and ascender/prussiks on me as well if I want to get down.
andic - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202:

Just set up as you would for a toprope: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23995729/toprope.png

Using static rope for the anchors and your climbing rope either tied in to or doubled through a screw gate (if you tie in you can just shunt up one strand and use the other for the anchors but it will be extra stretchy)

dont forget to weight the bottom of your rope and a back up is a good idea (knots, clipping gear or another device on a separate rope al work), also think about how you will get off the rope if you cant do the climb ie carry a prussic and a belay or just a reverso so you can go up/down the rope in a controlled fashion
cuppatea on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202:

Why use a static rope? Wouldn't this mean a shock loafing of everything in the system?
GridNorth - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202: I agree about preventing cross loading of the krab, I would also recommend passing a sling of bungee cord round your shoulder, like you would a 60cm sling, and tying it off to the shunt/krab. Experiment with the length so that it pulls the shunt up with you as you climb but does not double you up if you fall. Hope that makes sense.
Cheese Monkey - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to molly2202: I set up anchors at the top - having a rigging rope makes this very easy, I only have one rope so it can be a pain sometimes. Put loads of gear in, the last thing you want to worry about is your anchor. Either lower one end of rope to the ground or find the middle and then tie the rope off with a fig8 to master point. Throw both ends of rope down. Ab the line on one strand and put OH knots in the other strand every 2-5m depending. Add directional runner[s] if necessary. Clip bag or just climbing rack to end of shunt line, climb with shunt attached via one locker straight to belay loop. Have a 60cm sling girth hitched to belay loop also with a snap gate to clip other line with OHknots for back up.

I've tried tying knots below you as you go, but with the weight on the end of the rope its a bit of a struggle. The way I back it up sounds a bit OTT but its simple to use and only takes a few more minutes to set up.
wivanov - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to dwisniewski:
> (In reply to molly2202) If I'm working a route on my own I just use a Petzl shunt clipped directly to my belay loop with a locking krab, would probably be better using something like a DMM belay master to stop the krab cross loading, never got round to getting one. Usually weight the rope by tying my rucksack or rack on the end of the rope and have always found it runs smoothly enough.
>
> Normally have a gri-gri and ascender/prussiks on me as well if I want to get down.

7mm x 1 meter cordage. Thread through your Shunt eye and belay loop three times. Tie the ends off with an EDK. No crossloading. Each strand receives 1/3 the load. EDK probably sees (almost) nothing. I do this but, instead of a Shunt, I use an old Gibbs Ascender.

I carry an ATC and some prusiks but most times just stand in a loop of the rope if I have to get back up to an overhang or something.
jezb1 - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to cuppatea:
> (In reply to molly2202)
>
> Why use a static rope? Wouldn't this mean a shock loafing of everything in the system?

There's not going to be any real slack in the system, assuming your setup runs smoothly, so shock loading won't be an issue.
Jonny2vests - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to jezb1:
> (In reply to cuppatea)
> [...]
>
> There's not going to be any real slack in the system, assuming your setup runs smoothly, so shock loading won't be an issue.

You could equally say why not use static for top roping. I personally wouldn't climb on a static, its quite easy to get into situations where you can take small dynamic falls. They can hurt on static line.
needvert on 01 Feb 2013
Just follow that Petzl self belay page and you'll be fine.

[That means not using the UKC self belay favourite...The shunt!]

The Grigri is crap for solo TR.

I think the Basic is the nicest.
bpmclimb - on 01 Feb 2013
In reply to Big Jim The Climber:
> (In reply to molly2202) I've used a shunt on a 60cm sling on a static rope, has always seemed easier than using a grigri to me, but I may well be wrong!

I'm not sure that this is a safe recommendation. With a static rope it wouldn't be impossible to shock load the sling enough to snap it, especially Dyneema. Using a sling extension I would want the stretch of a climbing rope in order to protect the sling.
needvert on 01 Feb 2013
Ah, and I use dynamic rope. Sometimes slack can build up, for various reasons. Teethed ascenders don't trash it. [It's even common practice in aid for the second to ascend the lead line with two petzl ascensions.]

Of note, with regular toproping it seems the repeated lowering cycles decrease the number of falls your rope can take by a surprising amount
http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/services/safety/forms/Vogel1.doc
Jonny2vests - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to bpmclimb:
> (In reply to Big Jim The Climber)
> [...]
>
> I'm not sure that this is a safe recommendation. With a static rope it wouldn't be impossible to shock load the sling enough to snap it, especially Dyneema. Using a sling extension I would want the stretch of a climbing rope in order to protect the sling.

Wow, I missed that one, that is definitely dodgy. Painful at best, dangerous at worst. Extending it isn't really a good idea anyway if you want it to travel and not build up slack.
Jonny2vests - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to needvert:
> Just follow that Petzl self belay page and you'll be fine.
>
> [That means not using the UKC self belay favourite...The shunt!]
>
> The Grigri is crap for solo TR.
>
> I think the Basic is the nicest.

Troll Rocker!
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Monk - on 02 Feb 2013
In reply to jonny2vests:
> (In reply to jezb1)
> [...]
>
> You could equally say why not use static for top roping. I personally wouldn't climb on a static, its quite easy to get into situations where you can take small dynamic falls. They can hurt on static line.

People do it all the time on the Southern Sandstone (although I prefer a dynamic rope for the top outs). I prefer a static for shunting though - it's not unusual for me to have 30+ metres of rope out, and a dynamic rope stretches much too far to comfortably work routes, especially when the hard bits are near the ground. I'd imagine this is less of a problem on short routes. I am also particular about having virtually no slack in the system, and have arrived at a setup where the ascender is always right by my waist with no slack.
Jonny2vests - on 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Monk:
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> People do it all the time on the Southern Sandstone (although I prefer a dynamic rope for the top outs). I prefer a static for shunting though - it's not unusual for me to have 30+ metres of rope out, and a dynamic rope stretches much too far to comfortably work routes, especially when the hard bits are near the ground. I'd imagine this is less of a problem on short routes.

I generally have it snug early on, the same as top-rope belaying really. Southern sandstone is a special case.

> I am also particular about having virtually no slack in the system, and have arrived at a setup where the ascender is always right by my waist with no slack.

Me too. I usually make a Parisienne Baudrier and have the ascender at chest height.

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