/ Are hot drinks necessary?

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Fredt on 08 Feb 2013
The other post about flasks prompted this post.
Last time I used a stove on a hill was in 1996, as we planned a bivouac near the Albert Premier, - being a Peak 1 petrol stove, the time and effort to getting it to work spoilt the trip.
Since then I've done several Alpine seasons, Yosemite trips, Scotland Winter trips, Cuillin Ridge bivouacs, Mount Kenya trips, as well as hundreds of long days climbing and walking in The Peak, -and in none of them did I take a stove or even a flask on the climbs or walks. Seems to me that a hot drink is not worth the extra weight of stoves, fuel, pots, even a flask. And I never really craved a hot drink.
Anyone else of this view?
Caralynh - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt:

I agree in that I never drink hot drinks on the hill. However, if having a big day out in less accessible areas, it's nice to know there's the option of heating water in case of accident or emergency. We often pop in a jetboil with a sachet or two of cup a soup or hot chocolate.
galpinos - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt:

I think the morale boost of a cup of hot ribena whilst sat in a bothy bag, cold, tired and still a fair way to go until the car whilst the weather outside seems have gone all a bit mental is worth it's weight in stainless steel/glass.
aldo56 - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt: Surely stoves are the only way to get water on Hymalayan peaks or other such high altitude areas by melting snow?

I think if i was living in a tent/bivvying for multiple days, i'd be mighty glad of a warm drink inside me.
GridNorth - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt: Not necessary but it does raise the spirits.
ripper - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt: my old man swears the best way to warm yourself up is to eat something cold, like ice cream - personally i think he's losing it but when he were a lad he used to lead with the rope tied round his waist and a rack of about three bits of homemade gear and one MOAC, with battered old PAs on his feet that had more holes than uppers. They were 'ard in them days etc....
LennyJ1 on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt: I love having a flask of coffee on the hill when climbing/Hiking. Hot drinks really can help you feel warmer on the colder days.
Fredt on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to LennyJ1:
> (In reply to Fredt) I love having a flask of coffee on the hill when climbing/Hiking. Hot drinks really can help you feel warmer on the colder days.

But this is my point. For me, they don't make me feel any warmer.
And if they did, how long for?
If I'm moving, I'm warm. I'd rather use that weight for extra clothes.
ERH - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt:

I would carry an extra couple of Kg for a coffee in the morning...
balmybaldwin - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt:

If I'm not carrying too much anyway, then a couple of kilos for water, stove and fuel are well worth it for the ritual of having a nice cup of tea at the top (or a breather half way up
ledifer on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt:

if not having a cup of tea, then what do you do at the top?
KellyKettle - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to ledifer:
> (In reply to Fredt)
>
> if not having a cup of tea, then what do you do at the top?

A Wee Nippy Sweetie? :P

I'm not a fan of hot drinks during activity either, they're much better reserved for sitting on a nice comfy couch IMO.

I don't really like stopping for any longer than the time it takes for me to get my breath back and maybe for the lactate levels in my legs to allow me to feel sensations other than burning, I'd much rather drink cool/tepid drinks little and often on the move than stop for a brew up.
redsonja - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt: i love a hot drink when im out in cold, wet weather. maybe its not necessary but it definately warms me up
iksander on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt: I agree, more often than not I get too hot even in winter. Nevertheless I still carry a very small flask just in case.
wilkie14c - on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt: a pocket rocket, titan pan <doubles as shared cup> and the 125 size gas is about as heavy as an empty 1L flask but can give so much more. Look at Kenco '3in1's milk powder, sugar and coffee in one sachet <or 2in1s if you dont take sugar>
As others have said, not nessesary but so welcome when stopping for lunch or when the route is climbed and its relax time but still a few hours to walk out. It really gives a boost. Hot choc and cup-a-soup good too.
needvert on 08 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt:

Jet Boil makes it much less hassle.

Not sure how much of a difference it makes to my survival, but I sure feel less cold.
dudders - on 09 Feb 2013
I don't think survival comes into it, I don't go into the mountains with the objective of "survival", but because it is simething I enjoy doing. I also enjoy drinking tea. I is by no means necessary, but how many of the activities discussed on this forum are? It's about enjoyment
almost sane - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt:
I can't remember the last time I took a hot drink with me on a non-winter day walk.

In the winter it is a different story, especially as the water in a water bottle might freeze. Then, a wee flask can make the difference between drinking and not drinking. And there may be times in winter when I NEED a drink.

For overnight trips, it is no contest. The stove goes in the bag. Especially if the weather is cold.
Howard J - on 09 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt: If you don't feel the benefit of a hot drink, then don't take one. Personally, I only carry a flask in winter, when I'm glad of the immediate boost of warmth. I don't bother in summer, although many of my friends take tea or coffee in a flask. I don't know anyone who takes a stove on a day walk or climb.
captain paranoia - on 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Fredt:

> But this is my point. For me, they don't make me feel any warmer.

We can determine what temperature change a drink can give us.

Let's assume a 70kg body, at 36.8C.

Let's assume we drink 250ml at 70C

The resulting average temperature will be:

(70*36.8 + 0.25*70) / (70+0.25) = 36.92C

A change of +0.12C

Now let's do the same with cold (0C) water:

70*36.8/70.25 = 36.67C

A change of -0.13C

So the two drinks will give a body temperature difference of 0.25C

I'm not too sure how significant this is, but, given how carefully the body tries to regulate its temperature (within a pretty narrow range), I think it might be noticeable.

I started this analysis thinking that the difference would be negligible, but, having done it, I think there may indeed be a noticeable difference, so it's not just psychological.

I've also assumed that the entire body is warmed, but, in reality, it will only be the core, and it will take some time for that warmth to spread from the throat and stomach to the rest of the body. Thus, you will notice the warmth in your stomach and abdomen quite quickly.

And then there's almost sane's good point about not wanting the drink to freeze...

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