/ Scarpa Mont Blanc and Jorasses boots Pu inserts to soft ?

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Garbhanach - on 15 Feb 2013

I bought a pair of Scarpa Jorasses recently which have a quite soft Pu insert in the heel, when you put weight on them the heel absorbs the shock but the soles heel also goes into a rounded shape.
Round shaped heels appeared some years back and were sold as having less of an impact and damage to the environment however they were also prone to sliding when descending grass the heels did not bite they just slid so they were not popular.

So I was a bit concerned that the Jorasses heels would lack bite when descending, recently while descending some crusty snow I was managing to get heel penetration until one of the heels just slid off at a fast pace, my poles stopped me falling but my back has been bothering me since, now I lack confidence in these boots while descending, anyone else taken a slide in these while descending grass or snow, maybe I should adopt a goose step in descent :-)
Garbhanach - on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to Garbhanach:
Bump
Cameron94 on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to Garbhanach: The phantom series has the same pu insert so I know what part you are talking about but I don't understand "when you put weight on them the heel absorbs the shock but the soles heel also goes into a rounded shape."?

If it's any boost I find my boots to work well in the snow the only minor point I would make is that kicking steps in diagonal ascent up neve is a pain in the arse due to the flat toe profile bounding off on the first kick.
Garbhanach - on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to Cameron94: Maybe I am bit heavier than you with my sac on but the PU insert compresses as the heel hits the ground or snow and the black rubber sole takes on a rounded shape.

This is from the MCofS site below by Roger Wild, the point I am making is these PU inserts do not make a relatively stiff soled and safe boot in decsent.

MCofS
Boots:
Boots need to be relatively stiffsoled with sufficient rigidity to create secure footsteps by using the side edges or toes. They donít need to be heavy or fully stiffened mountaineering boots but if you can bend the sole easily in your hands then itís too soft and bendy to create secure footsteps. Rounded heels are no good because you canít create a firm step when descending. Donít be fooled into thinking that stiff soled boots are only needed on steep slopes. Many slips and falls occur on relatively easy angled slopes on popular hillwalking routes.
davy_boy - on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to Garbhanach: iv got a pair of jorasses and have never had a problem with the sole or the heel lacking any sort of grip when descending the forward pointing lugs on the heel are great for wet grassy terrain.
do you mean the heels are deforming when you put weight on the heel of the boot ?.
i have never seen mine deform even with my 14stone and a full pack of winter climbing gear maybe the boot is faulty somehow.
Garbhanach - on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to davy_boy: I am about the same weight, this is a link to a pic of me standing on one leg, if they don't deform how are they going to absorb the shock? maybe you don't realize how much they compress.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h5wc9uapdakq4mu/X8RU_awFyU
davy_boy - on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to Garbhanach: im quite surprised at that just been outside to try mine they do bend a little but not as much as your pic. cant say its ever caused a problem for me and there must be lots of people using the phantoms which must have the same issue. not really sure if theres a fix for this or its just something you get used to.
Cameron94 on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to Garbhanach: If the snow is so hard that it does that to your boots would you not find it more efficient wearing your crampons? If it's only a short patch face in or use the edges.
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Garbhanach - on 17 Feb 2013
In reply to Cameron94:
> (In reply to Garbhanach) If the snow is so hard that it does that to your boots would you not find it more efficient wearing your crampons? If it's only a short patch face in or use the edges.

Yes, the point I am making in this gear comment is a good mountain boot would have sufficient stiffness in the sole edges and heel to provide stability and bite as Roger Wild Mountain Safety advisor of MCofS says rounded heels are not good, on that day I was decsending between patches of snow at the snow line having not worn crampons all day.
Maybe others can learn or be aware due to this thread.

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