/ Is it possible to not feel knackered after a winter day?
also, any tips for a faster recovery?
Is it the approach or the climbing that gives you the problem?
If its the approach then you could try walking less far, less fast with half the weight you're carrying.
If it's the climbing then you might look at your cramping technique. I don't get calf aches and my mate does. He is fit and goes fell running for relaxation so I don't think gym exercises are the answer. Are you tensing up when you're on front points?
You might try shorter days with short aproach to see if it makes a difference.
Getting fitter definitely helps! When I first started winter climbing I would feel destroyed after a day on the Ben, but by April 2009 I could easily do the Aonach Eagach under snow followed by a 9 hour Clachaig bar shift and a three hour drinking session...
Of course I have now lost 99% of that fitness again ;-)
Cycling Plus reccomeneds a meal with protien and carbs in, of proportions i've forgotten, but milk has become recognised as a good recovery drink too.
If you can do nothing else pack a sig bottle of nice milk for the end?
I'm currently hobbling around the office after a 9 mile fell run yesterday, something I do 2 twice a year. I need to do it more often!
I've started using Nesquick with milk as everyone says thats good - not sure if its better or not.
So just stop on the way down and sit in the snow for 20 mins; preferably without trousers on but that might depend on where you are climbing. :-) If nothing else you now at least have a good reason for sitting down.
Flipancy aside Not sure how 'reliable' but see also here:
> also, any tips for a faster recovery?
If you've had a good day and pushed to your limits you're bound to feel tired. Enjoy the feeling, you've worked hard to earn it :-)
Eat well, rest, then get out and climb again.
I was also inspired by Eddie's ice-bath and now try to make myself stand in a burn or the sea over knee-level whenever I can; it definitely helps, feels great & is easier to motivate myself for than stretching.
In short yes!
Most of all judge your own abilities and fitness and dont be afraid to hold your hand up and look at easier/closer options if need be.
Knees to chesting for a couple of hours each way is pretty tiring stuff.
The better your general fitness the less tired you'll be after a long route, summer or winter.
It follows that youre less likely to damage yourself on the return both the walk back to the car AND the drive home.
That said sometimes accidents do just happen.
Lastly recovery, everyone will have their own ideas and there are 100s of books about training and recovery, but here hears a couple of mine top tips:
Eating during the day will keep yoru energy levels up and means you have less deficit to replace at the end, so eat...
Drinking water through out the day aids digestion and keeps your thoughts clear(see effects of dehydration), I use streams rather than carrying it, so drink water...
After, If its been a big day I might have a High 5 Recovery(or other) shake with milk before bed. Why before with milk before bed? the milk slows dogestion and drip feeds the compound to the body. Works for me.
I am currently sat at my desk thinking the same thing and with the fear of satnding up because I know it will hurt and I will creak like an old person.
My partner just directed me to this thread with the advice I should comment to say after doing The Idwel Stream yesterday I feel like the joys of spring...I don't!
What I do know is how my fitness has improved since I first started climbing, I took up running and then recently swimming and cycling and although I sit here now feeling broken I am also thinking how I wouldn't trade this pain for the awesome day I had yesterday. Everytime I whinge 'I hurt' (and that's a lot) my parner says that 'pain is weakness leaving the body' and while I would never tell him to his face as that pain would be greater...he is right!
I've had 4 out of the last 5 days on the hill, for the first time in years. Just soloing mind, so no heavy sac. I've felt knackered since the first day. The surprising thing is, once you get going again you feel OK. It's just being in the office that makes you really feel it...
Just climbed Zero gully on Friday then down to the lakes Friday night & up an over Helvellyn on Saturday , then back home to Midlands yesterday AM with a 5 mile run on Sunday.
Being fit or getting fit does really help , however ! , this does not help affect muscle soreness that will affect the legs & or arms , lats etc dependent on what sort of winter day you are doing.
My calves feel it from the front pointing on Zero plus my toes are all bashed from the 7,000 foot of descent on 2 days , try a combination of being or getting fitter ( keeping weight down or losing some as necessary )
PLUS take some anerobic exercise ( free weights , low reps for stamina , high weights & low reps for strength ) plus getting enough good quality sleep.
For me lack of decent sleep is the real killer it seems far worse than the exercise.
Finally over a period of time on a longer trip poor calorific intake will also affect your recovery & your stamina , I lost > 20lbs in the himalayas in 30 days in 1993 when aged 29 due to a combination of not eating enough & stomach illness.
To answer your point I don't think you will do harder things further away if you are fitter you just do more / better things & increase your choices & you will also get a better bang for your buck as you will need less rest days.
have fun , cheers , Sean
Drink tea until you run out of it.
Recent research shows a pint of full fat milk once your over the excercise may work wonders.......
As soon as you top out on the last pitch start packing gear into your sack while your mate is untying, it means he'll be stuck with the rope and you carry the much lighter gear rack. This helps on long walk outs I find
training, diet and efficiency - same as any sport.
> He'll be stuck with the rope and you carry the much lighter gear rack.
Are you sure you've got this the right way round?
In answer to the original question: No, unless you're taking it pretty easy!
I have recently found that I sometimes get really sore thigh muscles after winter days. It is unpredictable, with little relation to the length of the day (for instance, yesterday I only had a six hour day, but resorted to ibuprufen to help me get to sleep last night) and sets in usually on the descent rather than afterwards sitting in the car or next day. It feels more crampy than normal fatigue, but has no real correlation to my tendency to get thigh cramps after a hard day. Although I am not getting any younger and recovery is a little slower these days, my climbing partners, both younger and older (most of whom I am still faster and fitter than) don't seem to suffer anything similar.
Does anyone else suffer anything similar? Might it be diet related? I can't pin down anything which might cause it.
Or a good season for a lot of people!
Isn't it all part of the fun?
Food and beer never tastes so good and sleep is never so deep as after a long tiring day on the hill.
> In answer to the original question: No, unless you're taking it pretty easy!
> I have recently found that I sometimes get really sore thigh muscles after winter days. It is unpredictable, with little relation to the length of the day (for instance, yesterday I only had a six hour day, but resorted to ibuprufen to help me get to sleep last night) and sets in usually on the descent rather than afterwards sitting in the car or next day. It feels more crampy than normal fatigue, but has no real correlation to my tendency to get thigh cramps after a hard day. Although I am not getting any younger and recovery is a little slower these days, my climbing partners, both younger and older (most of whom I am still faster and fitter than) don't seem to suffer anything similar.
> Does anyone else suffer anything similar? Might it be diet related? I can't pin down anything which might cause it.
Have you tried/thought about eating something salty to see if that makes any difference?
What's the issue with feeling knackered? Part of the game!
I can get full on cramps if I dont hydrate properly. isotonic drinks, salt water etc will keep me going all day.
> Have you tried/thought about eating something salty to see if that makes any difference?
> I can get full on cramps if I dont hydrate properly. Isotonic drinks, salt water etc will keep me going all day.
Do all that too.
And what did he do after lunch?
(I've always got a couple of bottles of chocolate Yazoo in my car for the end of the day YUM!)
Very similar to Francois Damilano's link-up in the late '80s (Zero, Sickle, Smith's, Point 5 and Orion). It's difficult just negotiating other teams on these classic link-ups. I heard Tim's had only one day off from climbing in the last month so he'll be in good shape just now.
> And what did he do after lunch?
I just wandered back down and enjoyed the sunshine :)
> also, any tips for a faster recovery?
Yes, getting fitter helps, and it helps more if you get fit using the movements you will need. So long walks and climbs with a bag will help as training - though a properly planned weights regime at the gym will supplement that if you are serious.
Eating and drinking properly on the hill will help and speed your recovery too. Read any sports nutrition book, or even "Extreme Alpinism" by Mark Twight and you'll see they recommend eating around 150 calories an hour, every hour starting half an hour into exercise, and drinking as soon as you start to feel thirsty (Tip: cut a tray of fruit flapjack into 150kcal slices, wrap them individually and eat one an hour as you climb. Perfect mix of fast and slow release carbs plus fat. Maybe add nuts for protein too?). That really works for me and I usually feel fit enough for another go the next day. Sports drinks with some sodium in them may work better than plain water for rehydration. Read about it and judge for yourself.
When you get down you'll need to help your muscles repair by consuming protein starting within 20 minutes of the exertion ending. A protein bar, protein shake or just a decent meal will do the job. You'll need some carbohydrates to help the protein get absorbed though.
Finally, if you push your limits, you will feel knackered no matter how fit, fed and watered you are. Embrace that feeling, allow yourself to recover (Tip: take your pulse each morning on waking and the day it returns to within 2 beats of normal, you are recovered) then get out and do it again because that's the way we get stronger.
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