/ Climbing quiz

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Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
I recall a thread which ran over a period of time (probably repeatedly) a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away. On one of the UKC precursors. Thinking about it, perhaps around the time of the last great foot and mouth outbreak. Anyway, basically a climbing related quiz with the winner of each round to ask the next question. If anyone fancies a shot at it again, here's your (v easy) starter for ten....

Question: What route at Tremadog shares the same name as a route at Swindale?
Padraig on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:
Not sure of spelling but remember reading about a climb called "sustinuti" having been used twice?
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Padraig:

sorry but no, unless there's a route at Trem I'm unaware of (not impossible!)
Crofty - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: The Fang
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Crofty:

Aw, clearly way too easy ! Well done and pose your question sir...
Crofty - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: back with a question, had something on ebay to do
Which well known mountaineer lived in York for a while and got stuck on a climb at Almscliff while soloing?
999thAndy on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Crofty: Alan Hinkes?
Crofty - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: No, but see the logic in that answer
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Crofty: Putrell?
Crofty - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog: He was too good to get stuck, early days yet , so a further clue, he climbed Everest via the Kanshung Face
999thAndy on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Crofty: Mr Venables?
Crofty - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: Well done lad, your turn
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Crofty: I think I know now but I googled to check too afraid to get it wrong twice :-) so I shall not answer.
Crofty - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Crofty: SV got stuck on Central Climb
999thAndy on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Crofty: what year did Munro publish his eponymous tables?
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Crofty:

It's very hard to ask a google immune question. I was tempted by venables but unsure. Good question.
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: Non Google guess at 1864. If I wait for a question I know the answer too I will wait a long time. If I google I ruin it for me so guessing is where I'm going with it. :-)
999thAndy on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
Close(ish) but no cigar
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:

climbing quiz ethics; whatever next :)
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: I'd toprope the hell out of this quiz if I could think of a way.
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Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:

google = aid
james.slater - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: Non google guess at 1880? Didnt think Munro was that old!
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: Are we simply declaring our ethics? Anything is in as long as you are honest?
999thAndy on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: getting warmer
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:

> Are we simply declaring our ethics? Anything is in as long as you are honest?

I think that's about it !

I understand that just about anything goes if you're having fun ;)
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: 1887 is my second guess?

james.slater - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: umm 1890?
999thAndy on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: you're within touching distance...
cfer - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:1891...I only know this as I was looking at his wiki page yesterday
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: little known fact, Cameron McNeish was the first to repeat the whole list live on the BBC filmed by the TripleEcho Boys in 1892
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

if guessing is in, 1891 :)
999thAndy on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to cfer:
Winner !

Your Q next
cfer - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: Yay but I feel it was a little unfair as I was reading it yesterday but here goes....

Believed to be the first Indoor wall made, at the Ullswater School, Penrith, in what year was it made?

Oh and if it isnt the first can someone tell me which is as I was trying to find out the other day and this is cited in several places as the first....
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to cfer:

pffff an onsight answer - 1969 ..?
james.slater - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: Random guess at 1960?
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to cfer: Onsight guess: 1972
999thAndy on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to cfer:
Was it a bouldering wall like DRs Leeds wall circa 1972, or one for practising rope work?
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714:

when aiding this particular question I suspect you may be onto something....
cfer - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: Well done...Your turn now

And if anyone knows an earlier one I would love to know.
james.slater - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: According to wikipedia it was 1964!

Right here goes, hopefully google-proof! (And potentially quite hard!)

Which very appealing crag is described as not suitable 'for people of a nervous disposition, the unlucky, the uninsured, those who are easily disheartened, or anyone with loved ones'. Taken from the guidebook in which it appears.
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puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: Bosigran?
victim of mathematics - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714:

Whitestonecliffe?
james.slater - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics: No to both, keep going!
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714:

I found the answer via google in the school's own website (I think it was) - I wasn't suggesting you'd aided your way to the answer :)

Nice question. I vaguely recall this one but not sufficiently well. I'm 99% sure it isn't but I'll start the bidding at Swanage. Or Gogarth. I'll take the former .....
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog: I meant Gogarth.
james.slater - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: All reasonable guesses... A small tip, its less popular than suggestions so far but it does have a fair amount of starred and multi starred routes!
Jackwd - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: Wildcat?
999thAndy on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714:
Craig Dorys?
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: Stanage :-)
LaMentalist on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714:

I have read this description quite recently I'm sure of it so I'm gonna have to get the guide books out if someone doesn't get it soon aren't I ? Come on peeps you know this ....
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:

> Craig Dorys?

sounds closer.....
james.slater - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: No right answers yet, second clue: It is a fairly large eyesore in an otherwise beautiful area...
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: Tintern Quarry?
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714:

christ, not Horseshoe?!
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog: Yes quite sure without checking that this is right?
Blue Straggler - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to LaMentalist:

I recognise it yet I don't do "esoterica" so it must be somewhere relatively major!
ianstevens - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: Nesscliffe? (not that I'm bearing your recent experiences in mind or anything...)
james.slater - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog: Congratultions! Having climbed there myself, I have to say its not THAT bad! But unless your car breaks down outside the quarry, go to any other crag in the wye valley, they are all better!
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: Damn now I have to think of a question. hang on...
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: It'll be too easy but which Route did Jim Perrin fmously solo whilst high on (I think Speed) Drugs?
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cfer - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog: I know this but will refrain from answering as I dont have a question.....
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: I need to go to bed so can someone else regulate this or leave it until tomorrow.
puppythedog on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to cfer: You can regulate then :-) everyone wins.
ianstevens - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog: I believe it is Coronation Street. (and i've got a question ready if I'm right and all)
Skyfall - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:

I don't know the answer but, as I recall from when this was first done, this is a great reminder of our climbing heritage and what different people take from it. Not each specific question but the diversity and history.

Um, let's try again. Left Wall?

I think it's sufficiently late this can wait until tomorrow if no one wants to regulate!
johncoxmysteriously - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to ianstevens:

Correct. Off you go.

jcm
cfer - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to ianstevens: Well done.....as appointed regulator I announce you the winner
ianstevens - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to cfer: Haha, ok then. Which three star route was initially cleaned using a knife 'acquired' from a local and equally famous cafe?
cfer - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to ianstevens: Damn...Another I know and my climbing general knowledge is normally rubbish. I am also off to bed so i dont have to think of an answer.....
cfer - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: I mean think of a question....
ianstevens - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to cfer: I think we must share the same narrow spectrum of climbing knowedge.
Mike Nolan - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to ianstevens: Comes the Dervish in Vivian?
ianstevens - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Mike Nolan: Bang on. Your turn!
Mike Nolan - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to ianstevens: I feel slightly nerdy;-)

I think this is hard. The answer was on UKC very recently though.

When John Redhead painted on the Indian Face, what did the painting depict?
dsh - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to Mike Nolan:

A puffin?
Mike Nolan - on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to dsh: Not as far as I'm aware...
Orgsm on 04 Mar 2013
In reply to ianstevens:
> (In reply to cfer) Haha, ok then. Which three star route was initially cleaned using a knife 'acquired' from a local and equally famous cafe?

Sounds like cenotaph corner, llanberis pass. Remember reading in his hard years autobiography
ianstevens - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Beat me to it!:
> (In reply to ianstevens)
> [...]
>
> Sounds like cenotaph corner, llanberis pass. Remember reading in his hard years autobiography


No, the cafe in question wasn't open back then! Mike Nolan was right, the route is Comes The Dervish and the cafe is, of course, Pete's Eats.
johncoxmysteriously - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Mike Nolan:
> (In reply to ianstevens) I feel slightly nerdy;-)

> When John Redhead painted on the Indian Face, what did the painting depict?

Presumably either a penis or a vagina. At the very least, metaphorically.

jcm

wilkie14c - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Mike Nolan:
Damn it, I've got a picture of it too but can't exactly remember! I seem to recall it just being a bit abstract but i think everything was abstract through Redheads eyes at the time
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jayjackson - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Mike Nolan:
Well my tentative onsight attempt is some form of genitalia, however I'm basing this on the beta from his other artworks, so could be about to take a bit of a whipper...
Bulls Crack - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to jayjackson:
> (In reply to Mike Nolan)
> Well my tentative onsight attempt is some form of genitalia, however I'm basing this on the beta from his other artworks, so could be about to take a bit of a whipper...

Well, I googled it and you're in the right ball-park....predictably enough!
jayjackson - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Is there a (not so) subtle hint there...is it a right testicle?!

If this is correct, is it only a flash now you've given me some extra beta?
Orgsm on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:

A church?
pasbury on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Mike Nolan:

It looked like some sqiggles and squares - don't know what it was supposed to represent.
tlm - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Mike Nolan:
> (In reply to ianstevens) I feel slightly nerdy;-)
>
> I think this is hard. The answer was on UKC very recently though.
>
> When John Redhead painted on the Indian Face, what did the painting depict?

This:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V4-yaQGISNs/Tq0a_Fh5lOI/AAAAAAAABS0/NvRKkd6FEgE/s1600/indianfacepaintingx1...

(I googled it!)
johncoxmysteriously - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to tlm:

A Rubik's cube?

jcm
puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: a buffalo?
james.slater - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: I thought it was always supposed to be a house?
pasbury on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714:

Actually if you squint a bit it could be a horse with a tabard on.
wilkie14c - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
I'd say the only clear thing on it is what looks like a buffalo yes
puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to blanchie14c: I hadn't seen the photo. I couldn't see a buffalo in the photo and I'm not sure his style of art is my sort of thing either.
mrchewy - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Mike Nolan: A broken hold causing a fall.
wilkie14c - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog: I agree, its crap, I wouldn't climb up there to look at it anyway....
Your go I reckon mr dog

(I have the book that the pic is in but felt it unfair and cheaty to answer it myself as I'm a climbing (quiz) ethics purist ;-)
puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to blanchie14c: Thank you very much for your ethical Purity Blanchie.
What Boulder Problem did James Pearson Flash to become the first person to Flash 8B?
Jim at Work on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
Careless Torque?
puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Jim at Work: No, sorry. Not according to my source.
johncoxmysteriously - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:

Nah, it was some insignificant three-move pullfest in, er, Ticino or somewhere. I can't remember its name; it didn't strike me as being a well-known problem at the time.

jcm
puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: he did one in Colorado first that was then downgraded to 8A+, so yes one in Ticino. I'm not sure if it's well known or not. It's something I was curious about a while ago so researched. Not sure if we should hold out for the actual answer or whether that should be good enough? What do you think John?
james.slater - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: Not baseline? Or new baseline, whatever its called! Dont even know if its 8B
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puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to vertigo714: No sorry.

puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: So as not to lose this thread in the off the front page bit of UKC I'd be happy to hand the mantel over to John for a better question. he got close? If there is agreement I will post the answer.
puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: It is find able with internet, on this site no less. Off course that's aid but it is an ascent.
ablackett - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog: Ganymede takeover. google, sorry.
puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to ablackett: I think we can allow it. Your Question.
puppythedog on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to ablackett: I thought I had killed the thread (I do that a lot, not sure why/how)
ablackett - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog: Which route is this?

"This is the best climb in the immediate neighbourhood of Borrowdale... A 15-foot pitch crowned by a chockstone first demands attention, and this is passed on the left by means of some splendid ledges. The second pitch is short, and grand hold is found at it's summit for the direct pull. Sundry boulders then rise above, and these are reached first on the right and then surmounted on the left after a traverse below the upper wedged block.... Steep grass then leas out to the summit, almost 500 feet from the base of the cliff"

As described in my favourite guide book.
johncoxmysteriously - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to ablackett:

Corvus?

jcm
ablackett - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Not Corvus sorry.
Dave Ferguson - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to ablackett:
Cam crag ridge?
ablackett - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson: Again no.
TRip - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to ablackett:

is the description from Steve Ashton's 100 classic climbs?
Jonny2vests - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to pasbury:
> (In reply to vertigo714)
>
> Actually if you squint a bit it could be a horse with a tabard on.

Looks like an advert for Windows 98 to me.
ablackett - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip: This is proving tricky, considering it was once described as the best climb in Borrowdale. Cam Crag Ridge isn't too far away, geographically speaking. The first edition of the book was published pre 1910 if that helps.
Dave Ferguson - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to ablackett:
Sergeant crag gully?
ablackett - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson: Winner! It was from British Mountain Climbs by George D Abraham. Every page is brilliant. Your question.
Dave Ferguson - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to ablackett:
On which sea cliff classic would one find the 'honeysuckle slab' pitch?
johncoxmysteriously - on 05 Mar 2013
In reply to ablackett:

Hah - I've got that as well.

Honeysuckle slab - no idea.

jcm
jayjackson - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson:

> On which sea cliff classic would one find the 'honeysuckle slab' pitch?

Avernus Direct? Seem to remember that it's the name of the variation that avoids the main hard pitch...

My ancient copy of Rock Climbing in Snowdonia is calling me to look it up and check!
nick ingram on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to jayjackson:
Google says Yes.
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puppythedog on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: We need Dave back to officiate and hand on the barton.
Dave Ferguson - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to jayjackson:
yep, thats the one, well done - your question
jayjackson - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson:
Wow! I never do this well at pub quizzes!

Asked when he stopped drinking before going on expedition, which British climber and mountaineer replied, "When I reach the last pub."?
puppythedog on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to jayjackson: Was that Don? seems the obvious choice to go with Willans.
NicholasHart - on 06 Mar 2013
In reply to jayjackson:

Dougal Haston?
jayjackson - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
Was that Don? seems the obvious choice to go with Willans.

It was indeed, well done.

(I'm sure I've read somewhere that when he and Haston were descending Everest after their unprotected bivi, the Sherpas were practically carrying Haston, but Don wandered down, dribbling a football made of snow and swigging from a bottle of whisky! Just redefines "hardman" doesn't it!).
TRip - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to jayjackson:
> (In reply to puppythedog)
> Was that Don? seems the obvious choice to go with Willans.
>
> It was indeed, well done.
>
> (I'm sure I've read somewhere that when he and Haston were descending Everest after their unprotected bivi, the Sherpas were practically carrying Haston, but Don wandered down, dribbling a football made of snow and swigging from a bottle of whisky! Just redefines "hardman" doesn't it!).

Are you getting Everest confused with Annapurna S Face? Whillans didn't summit Everest - was he even on the Hard Way expedition? Haston climbed it with Doug Scott.
puppythedog on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to jayjackson: Which British Mountaineer Bivvied at about 28,000 feet after leaving the summit having arrived via the kangshung.


Not a difficult question but I need someone with better knowledge to pass the Baton to. Onsight answers only.
Grahame N - on 07 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
Easy, Stephen Venables.
puppythedog on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N: It was meant to be easy, I cuoldn't think of anything hard :-)

Your turn in the Climbing Quiz, post your Question.
Grahame N - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:

Okay, this is harder. Name the climber who said:-


"You know Alf, going to the right place at the right time, with the right people is all that really matters. What one does is purely incidental".
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N:

Finally I know one. Colin Kirkus.
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Name the climber whose rather Freudian route description for a new route included the words (or similar),

"Belay above in a cave. It's a fine cave, although it could do with a good wipe."

jcm
Grahame N - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Correct. Your turn.
BigHairyIan - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: it is the inscription I'm the front of the Skye Guide (1982?) - Colin Kirkus.
BigHairyIan - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to BigHairyIan: ha. Too late and hadn't refreshed my browser...
jayjackson - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:
Yup, I'm mixing up my 8000ers!
jayjackson - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Going for a complete guess; was it Chris Bonnington on the the FA of the Original Route on the Old Man of Hoy?
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to jayjackson:

No. Someone whose personality fitted the quote much better.

jcm
BPT@work on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Menlove Edwards?
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johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:

Correct. Can't remember the route, something horrible on the Devil's Kitchen cliff, I think.

jcm
BPT@work on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:

Who did something silly after leaving the gates of Mordor and topped out near a goblin?
Skyfall - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:

Gollum, my precious...
BPT@work on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:

No. What's he ever done on grit? ;-)
TRip - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:

Dawes?
BPT@work on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

No, 15 - 20 years too late.
TRip - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> No, 15 - 20 years too late.

Are you talking about Llanberis Slate though?
BPT@work on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

No, N. Wales, Peak and Yorkshire. HTH.
TRip - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:

Is it a "round Britain quiz" style question?

As in a bit of a riddle?
Si Withington - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work: Hank Pasquill
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to siwithington:

Good call. I don't get the Mordor bit - unless HP put up Gates of Mordor at Millstone - but Silly Arete and Goblin's Eyes are right.

jcm
Si Withington - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to siwithington)
>
> unless HP put up Gates of Mordor at Millstone

Yup

TRip - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to siwithington:
> (In reply to BPT@work) Hank Pasquill

That was my guess too.
BPT@work on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to siwithington:
> (In reply to BPT@work) Hank Pasquill

We have a winner!

Silly Arete Pant Ifan, Tremadoc (1971, E3 5c)
Gates of Mordor, Millstone (FFA 1969, E3 5c)
Orchrist, Almscliffe (1973, E5 6b)

All some of Hank's FAs.

Over to you, sir!
Si Withington - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:

Ta

Off out, wouldn't want to keep you waiting. Passes baton to the first person who wants it :)

TTFN
TRip - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to siwithington:

Who got really scared after they went for a long run in top gear?
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to siwithington:

OK, then, let's have the now-deleted question, what had Pete Whillance just done when he said that 'Owt's better than nowt in a crisis'.

I will try Incantations on Channel Five?

jcm
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

Also Pete Whillance.

jcm
TRip - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> Also Pete Whillance.
>
> jcm

Correct... and the routes?
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

Not sure but you're referring to his huge fall at whatever that crag where Top Gear is is called, aren't you? I can't remember what route it was off; I didn't think it was Top Gear.

jcm

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TRip - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to siwithington)
>
OK, then, let's have the now-deleted question, what had Pete Whillance just done when he said that 'Owt's better than nowt in a crisis'.
>
> I will try Incantations on Channel Five?
>
That's not the correct answer...
TRip - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> Not sure but you're referring to his huge fall at whatever that crag where Top Gear is is called, aren't you? I can't remember what route it was off; I didn't think it was Top Gear.
>
> jcm

The question links three Whillance routes at major crags.
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

Oh OK. Well, he put up Top Gear and presumably also The Long Run (the Gogarth one?). I'm not sure about the really scared one, but it could be a number of his routes!

owt's better than nowt - frustrating. very well-known quote, but I can't call the context to mind.

jcm
Ian Parsons - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

Stage Fright?
TRip - on 08 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> Oh OK. Well, he put up Top Gear and presumably also The Long Run (the Gogarth one?). I'm not sure about the really scared one, but it could be a number of his routes!

Agrippa on the Ben was the scary one.

>
> owt's better than nowt - frustrating. very well-known quote, but I can't call the context to mind.

He took a massive pisser off the top of Top Gear, breaking several krab and brushing the ground with his cheek. He also bit off the end of his tongue. A couple of days later his discharged himself from hospital and went back and climbed it. Hero.

Next Quesiton

Where was Dougie Hall going when he climbed Western Union.

Ian Parsons - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

Oldham.
TRip - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> Oldham.

No. Not a place, more an occasion.
cragtyke - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip: The wedding of a friend, but I don't know which one.
TRip - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to cragtyke:
> (In reply to TRip) The wedding of a friend, but I don't know which one.

We have a winner.
cragtyke - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip: In that case then, what's the link between first ascents on both Tryfan and Wharncliffe?
gingerwolf - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to cragtyke: a route name?
Ian Parsons - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

Ah! Sorry Tom - I obviously took your "where" too literally; now, if you'd asked "what for".... (the wedding was in Oldham)!
john arran - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to cragtyke:
> (In reply to TRip) In that case then, what's the link between first ascents on both Tryfan and Wharncliffe?

Puttrell?
cragtyke - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to john arran: John, i didn't realise JWP had done first ascents on both but apparently so. If I could rephrase the question it would be who was the controversial first ascentionist of routes on both tryfan and wharncliffe, with the name of the wharncliffe one possibly being a comment on the tryfan one?
Dave Ferguson - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to cragtyke:
That would be Hans Teufel who did Teufelsweg at Wharncliff and Munich Climb on Tryfan
cragtyke - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson: Yes, that's the one, over to you.
Dave Ferguson - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to cragtyke:
quite hard to find a google free question but hopefully this will work. its actually one of Paul Williams questions from the first of his famous Heights Quizzes.

"There is one route in the Llanberis Pass guide named after a woman, the route name includes the christian name and surname, who is she?"
puppythedog on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson: Lorraine Variation? :-)
Dave Ferguson - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
sorry no, need christian name and surname which are both in the route name
puppythedog on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson: I was wondering if it was named after Lorraine Variation (i.e. surname Variation). It was a poor joke. ANything to do with Sunglasses?
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John P - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson:

Tess of the d'Urbervilles
Dave Ferguson - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to John P:
> (In reply to Dave Ferguson)
>
> Tess of the d'Urbervilles

Nope, no surname there either

Tony & Sarah - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson: Ann Cornwall's Climb
Dave Ferguson - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Tony & Sarah:
Thats the one, well done, over to you.
Tony & Sarah - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson: sorry for the delay our internet fell over.
As far as we know there is only one definitive guide where the same person appears on the front cover and rear cover. Name the guide.
Fredt on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Tony & Sarah:
> (In reply to Dave Ferguson) sorry for the delay our internet fell over.
> As far as we know there is only one definitive guide where the same person appears on the front cover and rear cover. Name the guide.

I know this, I have just confirmed by reaching over to the bookshelf to my right. Is that cheating?

Tony & Sarah - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt: No Googling is
simondgee - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Tony & Sarah:
Northumberland Mountaineering Club Northumberland Guide
Andy Earl on the cover on Endless Flight Direct
simondgee - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to simondgee:
front cover is on upper arete
rear is a sequence of 4 shots on the lower arete
Tony & Sarah - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to simondgee: Correct, not the answer we were expecting, we did not notice the advert for scarpa. The other answer we expected was 1985 Yorkshire Limestone with Steve Lewis belaying on the front cover and climbing Toadville on the rear cover.
simondgee - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Tony & Sarah:
...:-) so is it my turn to ask away now boss?
Tony & Sarah - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to simondgee: yes our internet fellover while posting
Fredt on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Tony & Sarah:
> (In reply to Dave Ferguson) sorry for the delay our internet fell over.
> As far as we know there is only one definitive guide where the same person appears on the front cover and rear cover. Name the guide.

Stanage/Millstone 1983

Front Ed Wood on Archangel
Rear Ed Wood on Flute of Hope

simondgee - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Tony & Sarah:
When Gaston Rebuffat published his book Chamonix Mont Blanc 1900 it contained 1 historic british 'crag' in error but still managed to correctly name it in French. what was the 'crag'?
Tony & Sarah - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt: Correct sorry everybody must research more carefully
Kipper - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to simondgee:
> (In reply to Tony & Sarah)
> When Gaston Rebuffat published his book Chamonix Mont Blanc 1900 it contained 1 historic british 'crag' in error but still managed to correctly name it in French. what was the 'crag'?

The Roches :-)
simondgee - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Kipper:
no but i like the way your thinking.
simondgee - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to simondgee:
a part of the body may help you
johncoxmysteriously - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson:
> (In reply to John P)
> Tess of the d'Urbervilles
>
> Nope, no surname there either

Bit harsh; surely d'Urberville was her surname?!

No idea on the present question.

jcm

simondgee - on 09 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

must of really have needled Rebuffat when the error was pointed out to him...
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TRip - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to TRip)
>
> (the wedding was in Oldham)!

Ah! That's funny... did you attend?!
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

No - I can't claim any sort of acquaintance, although Dougie was a familiar and mercurial figure all over the place with whom many people will have been on "nodding" terms. I simply checked my copy of Cumbrian Rock!
nick ingram on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to simondgee:

Almscliffe?
dominic lee - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to simondgee: Napes Needle.
simondgee - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to nick ingram:
nope
next clue
the image appeared with a caption Aiguille d'Nuque
simondgee - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
Bingo!!!
simondgee - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to simondgee:
Abraham brothers image of the Napes needle ended up being plagarised with its original name of Napes Needle being translated correctly to the french Aiguille de Nuque (Needle of the Nape (of the neck))...but assumed to be the Alps
dominic lee - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to simondgee:
Ok. So which Hush Puppy bedecked former 60/70's activist & latterly user (abuser?) of words used to run a fruit & veg shop in Sheffield??
TRip - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Jim Perrin?
bombshell - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: johnny dawes runs a fruit and veg shop doesn't he?
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to bombshell:

He's not that old!
Al Evans on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Geoff Birtles
dominic lee - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:
Right ballpark...
dominic lee - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to bombshell:
60/70's....?
dominic lee - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
BINGO...You were my bet for who'd know.
Al Evans on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: I used to spend my lunch hours there or at Tankys old shop as I worked just off West Street, we actually hatched a plan to do the first ascent of Changabang there as Geoff was sure he could get the Maharishi to sponser us :-)

Now a question, which UKC poster was famously rescued by helicopter after a fall, only for the helicopter to develop a fault and have to ditch in the sea, nessecitating another rescue by boat before he could get to hospital?
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

Mr Cannings.
Al Evans on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Correct, a TV documentary was made of the epic no less.
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

Yes - I think I vaguely remember that, although not sure who played whom.

Ok, here's one; not too obscure, I hope. Which route in the Upper Wye area - Herefordshire Wye, that is - was named in honour of an earlier contributor to this thread (who might indeed want to keep his head down on this one or risk blowing his cover!)?
Rob Exile Ward on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans: There was a funny aftermath to that story. Shortly afterwards 'Sugar' Cannings was leafing through a copy of Titbits (the 70s equivalent of Hello or something) and came across an article 'Help Help, my husband is dying', written by one... Patricia Cannings.

She'd known nothing about it, the magazine had made the whole story up. They complained and got £50 for the story IIRC, and it taught me a valuable lesson about not believing everything you read...
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Al Evans on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Rob Exile Ward: This from the Alpine Club archives, it's about lectures in 2010
"Tuesday 9th February. Frank Cannings presenting his film entitled "In Extreme Danger".
Frank will be presenting the well-received documentary that is based on an epic rescue that took place on Lundy in 1971. This will be accompanied by a selection of slides illustrating climbing developments in the South-west in the 1960's and 70's."
dominic lee - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
Visited the shop in the sixties it must have been with my dad. Must have been six or so..received an apple. Quite a vivid memory of dusty Sheffield for some reason...
johncoxmysteriously - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

John's Route?

jcm
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Nope. That's actually in the Lower Wye area. There's a Joyce's Route in the Symonds Yat guide; that's not it either, but is there anything we should know...?
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:

Do the rules suggest a suitable interval whereafter some sort of clue might be thought appropriate?
jon on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Ah, I think I know this one... but I'm not saying as I can't think of a question right now. Pretty obscure I'd say Ian, (if it's who I think it is). Maybe a clue.
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:

Ok. Think "your mother smells of elderberries/I break wind in your general direction", but more Two Ronnies than Monty Python.
johncoxmysteriously - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

The Herefordshire Wye?! I can't even think of a route in Herefordshire.

jcm
Frank Cannings on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

> Now a question, which UKC poster was famously rescued by helicopter after a fall, only for the helicopter to develop a fault and have to ditch in the sea, nessecitating another rescue by boat before he could get to hospital?

Al, No boat was involved .. A 2nd rescue helicopter from RAF Chivenor was dispatched after the MayDay call and homed in on a radio beacon to the rubber dinghy with me, my wife & the 3 aircrew, floating in Bristol Channel. This severely overloaded their aircraft so they had to skim at low altitude back to Barnstaple. I'm told it was the 1st occasion ever that a RAF helicopter had crashed with civilians on board.
Rick Sewards - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

I'm going to have wild guess at Piggy Malone, just because it sounds like an insulting nickname for somebody (no idea who) and it's in the right place (and I've just googled and it's a Two Ronnies character...)

Rick
Frank Cannings on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
> .. Shortly afterwards 'Sugar' Cannings was leafing through a copy of Titbits (the 70s equivalent of Hello or something) and came across an article 'Help Help, my husband is dying', written by one... Patricia Cannings.
>
> She'd known nothing about it, the magazine had made the whole story up. They complained and got £50 for the story ...

Rob, some corrections ... the publication was "Weekend" not "Titbits" ..the piece entitled "Hurry, my husband is dying", there was no "leafing through" - we were told about the article by Peter Biven and it was a local N.Devon journalist who had concocted the story. We consulted literary giant & climbing friend Al Alvarez for advice - which was "f**king sue them!"
It probably was around £50 compensation - in 1971 money - now worth about £600.
Rob Exile Ward on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Frank Cannings: I stand corrected - but I was only 16 at the time, so not such a bad memory! That was in the days of the Cheltneham Mountaineering Club, with Martin Plant, I think.
Steve Clegg - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to Al Evans)
>
> "Which route in the Upper Wye area was named in honour of an earlier contributor to this thread?"

Closer than might be thought.
Steve

Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons)
>
> The Herefordshire Wye?! I can't even think of a route in Herefordshire.
>
> jcm

Hi John

Hereford sits on the River Wye, which then meanders its way past all those crags down to Chepstow and thence the Severn Estuary.

And we have a winner now.
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

Excellent, Rick!
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Steve Clegg:

Ah, Steve! Did I ask a more complicated question than I realised?
Rick Sewards - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

So who was Piggy Malone then?

Right, this should be Google-proof at least, though you don't need to have been following me around to get the answer (though it might sound like it) - the clues are all there.

This is essentially true story, only slightly embellished for literary effect. A few years ago I was walking underneath a cliff looking at lines, when I saw an E4 and realised I'd been that way before, some years earlier. I hadn't climbed it very elegantly - I used my bum on some of the holds - but it was a clean, onsight lead. The thing is, I was barely leading VS at the time. Which E4?

Rick (will come back with clues later tonight if nobody gets it)
jon on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

> So who was Piggy Malone then?

Why, Charlie Farley's partner, of course.
Ian Parsons - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons)

> So who was Piggy Malone then?

My clue was a slightly clumsy attempt to point people at "The Phantom Raspberry-Blower of Old London Town", that iconic Two Ronnies character saga involving a heinous villain and the two doughty sleuths Piggy Malone and his trusty sidekick Charlie Farley, the latter also being how the said contributor is affectionately known to many of his friends and probably all sorts of other people as well. His actual identity, however, must remain a mystery. Jon knew, of course, partly because it's his route!
flaneur - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

The E4 is Beau Brummell at Froggatt. It's the left arete of Swimmer's Chimney which you had back-and-footed up.
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Steve Clegg - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Hi Ian, not a difficult question for those in the know. I suspect however that when the survey police understand the UKC demographic they’ll have a filter installed, and people of your age will be sin binned for posing unreasonably old questions!! Not sure how safe the identity of the individual is though - I fear a Giggsgate.

p.s. does not jcm know that said crag is sarf of the Watford Gap?!?
Rick Sewards - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to flaneur:

Good answer, but not the right one. As it happens, you are very close to the truth, but I've only back-and-footed up half of Beau Brummel at most (having done Brightside, but not Swimmer's Chimney itself)

Rick
Rick Sewards - on 10 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

Hmmm, no more takers...

Clue no 1: The Empire Strikes Back

Rick
Ian Parsons - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

Perhaps something that used to be a VS chimney, but abruptly got harder when one side collapsed? If so, no idea what it might be.
Ian Parsons - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Steve Clegg:

> p.s. does not jcm know that said crag is sarf of the Watford Gap?!?

Hi again Steve

To be fair, John's suggestion - John's Route - overlooks the correct river, but simply from a location not far enough up it. He may have a point; I used the term "Herefordshire Wye" to mean the river of that name that for at least a part of its length flows through Herefordshire, whereas technically it might mean that part of the same river that is actually in Herefordshire - as opposed, for instance, to that part further downstream that defines the Wales/Gloucestershire border. Unfortunately, I can't actually remember precisely which bit lies below Symonds Yat!
flaneur - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

That was my other thought. What did Propeller Wall appear from?
Al Evans on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to flaneur: Propeller Wall was just due to a brilliant climber (Syrett) having a really good day. But bloody Ron Fawcett who I think did the second ascent still went along with VS and told me thats what it was. I soon decided it wasn't.
Rick Sewards - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

Not there yet...

Clue no 2: Aliens

Rick
Rick Sewards - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

Oh dear, hope I haven't killed this thread - someone above (not saying who) had the right idea.

Clue no 3: The Godfather Part II

Rick
johncoxmysteriously - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

>It’s not really a quiz question, is it? The idea seems to be to guess some easy grit chimney which has an E4 arete as one side of it, connected to a load of films I haven't seen.

jcm
Monkey_Alan - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:
I think people are taking the 'VS' comment too literally.
Exit Chimney 2: The Sequel at Guillemot Ledge.
Rick Sewards - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Well, not really - to help further, there is a bit of climbing history in there (the E4 in question is to my knowledge neither contrived nor escapable), and you don't need to have seen the films in question (the last one should help give it away!). It wasn't Flaneur who had the right idea by the way.

Rick
Rick Sewards - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:

Correct! (You posted just as I was replying to John) Sorry if this was more a riddle than a quiz - I must admit I hadn't thought of E4 aretes to easy chimneys. I did the original Exit Chimney one year before it fell down.

Over to you

Rick
puppythedog on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan: Come On Monkey_Alan, ask us a question. :-)
Monkey_Alan - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
What route is this:

Like a turbo-charged version of Lockwood's Chimney, the striking slender
fissure that splits the edge of the cliff [...] is both fascinating and
repellant - an absolute must for those with a penchant for claustrophobic
thrutching.
BPT@work on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:

Preposterous tales?
Monkey_Alan - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:
No.
puppythedog on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: I don't know but I don't want this thread to disappear in case one comes up later I can guess :-)
Rick Sewards - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:

Monolith Crack? (I deliberately haven't checked the Ogwen guide sitting on my shelf - need to keep a bit of uncertainty)

Rick
Monkey_Alan - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
No, but you're in the right area.
Dafydd Llywelyn - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: Fear of infection??
Monkey_Alan - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Dafydd Llywelyn:
No, Rick Sewards was closer, both geographically and in grade.
Dave Ferguson - on 12 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:
Chasm Route, Glyder Fach?
Monkey_Alan - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson:
Nope. Occasional visitors may have an advantage over locals with this.
wilkie14c - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan: Gashed crag??
GeoffRadcliffe - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:
> (In reply to Dave Ferguson)
> Nope. Occasional visitors may have an advantage over locals with this.

Can I assume from this that it is in a selective rather than a definitive guidebook?
Monkey_Alan - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
It is. Anyone wanting more clues as to the exact publication will be crushed into a fine powder.
Colin Wells - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:

I haven't got Paul Williams' guide, but it sounds very much his style. So on that basis I'll take a punt at Square Chimney, Glyder Fach
Monkey_Alan - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Colin Wells:
It might be his style, but it's not his book. Nor is it on Glyder Fach.
pasbury on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:

It's not insidious slit is it?
Monkey_Alan - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to pasbury:
No.
Sorry, I hadn't thought this was going to be so devilishly difficult.
pasbury on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:

Give us a clue then! Is it from Tom Lepperts Ogwen fun book?
Rick Sewards - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:

Alright, I've succombed to looking (though I did guess which crag to look at) - the Devil's Staircase

Rick
Monkey_Alan - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
Is the right answer! Nobody has to be ground up after all.

Your turn.
Rick Sewards - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Monkey_Alan:

Well, my last one didn't meet with universal approval, but let's try this one...

Where can you find a footballer and his chairman?

(I've a feeling this one may need clues - will check in the morning)

Rick
Rick Sewards - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

Actually, can I change my mind on that? - I've decided that one is truly obscure, and is likely to stop the thread in its tracks (and I can't think of a way of giving clues without telling the answer!) Here's an easier one:

Nephew's Direct isn't a route name (I just made it up, though there is a Nephew's Variation somewhere entirely different), but it could be. What's it better known as?

Rick

PS Anyone who does know my original question can answer and get extra smugness points
BPT@work on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
Does one of Dave Birkett's routes lead more directly to one of his uncle Bill's routes?
johncoxmysteriously - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:

Aha - good call. I've forgotten the exact question, but I suspect the answer is Raven Crag Langdale and Centrefold/Dawes Rides a Shovelhead.

jcm
Rick Sewards - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Correct - over to you

Rick

PS I did wonder if you might be one of the few people that might get the footballer question, but you'd probably need to be the author/editor/proof reader of the guidebook in question.
johncoxmysteriously - on 14 Mar 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

I can assure you I wouldn't have done!

An easy one; what connects the route Names is For Tombstones, Baby at Dancing Ledge with Gallows Route on Buachaille Etive Mor.

jcm
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BPT@work on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Well, John, this doesn't seem to be so easy after all!

Was John Cunningham ever referred to as Mr Big?

Ian Parsons - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Hi John

There's a connection between the routes via the various obvious ones between their names - for instance the fact that there's a replica gallows in Tombstone, Arizona. But you're much more devious than that, surely!
johncoxmysteriously - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:

>Was John Cunningham ever referred to as Mr Big?

I don't think so. Was Damian Cook?!

jcm
Ian Parsons - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Ah. Sadly, not so much a loose connection with death as the common cause of it in the cases of the respective first ascensionists.
TRip - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

All the FAs drowned?
Ian Parsons - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip:

Cook and Cunningham did. It would be a very grisly coincidence had others involved done so as well.
johncoxmysteriously - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Indeed.

OK, your turn.

jcm
Ian Parsons - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

This one is definitely less obscure! What is particularly notable about the chimney on the 14th pitch of Half Dome's Tis-sa-ack?
Tom Last - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Hmm, there's something in the Supertopo guide about this iirc. Is it supposed to make up the face of a petrified indian woman or something?
Ian Parsons - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Southern Man:

The black streaks on the righthand side of the face are supposed to be the tears of the mythical - and petrified - Tis-sa-ack, but that's not the answer.
Tom Last - on 15 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Ah okay cheers, no idea then :)
Ian Parsons - on 16 Mar 2013
Quoth Peterson - except it was actually Robbins, writing in Peterson's voice, in the "two-person account" which was written entirely by Robbins:

"On the fifth morning I had to use up three more bolts because there was another five-inch overhanging crack. I finally got into it and went free for a hundred feet completely inside a huge flake for half the way."
Ian Parsons - on 18 Mar 2013
In case there's any confusion, that wasn't any sort of an answer - simply a bit of a clue. Perhaps someone would like to pitch in with another question if mine has outstayed its welcome!
johncoxmysteriously - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Unless Duncan turns up, no-one's going to get this, I suspect. You might have to tell us the answer.

jcm
Ian Parsons - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

It's fairly find-out-able, with a bit of research; SuperTopo, for instance - either the website or the Yosemite Big Walls book, to which I'm sure many people on here have access. (I'm assuming that research of some sort is within the rules of the game, otherwise it would be heavily biased in favour of those with a large bookshelf!)
GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Is it that the flake on Tis-sa-ack is now missing?
jon on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

I wondered if it was an ex flake too, so I looked here and couldn't find anything http://www.supertopo.com/rock-climbing/route_beta.php?r=ybhatisi One thing for sure is that whatever it is, Ian will be right, as he's done the route...
Fredt on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:

I'm sure that some of the climb has disappeared, was it in an earthquake a few years back?
Also, IIRC, isn't there a pitch on there that expanded as you put bongs in, making those beneath fall out.
Ian Parsons - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hi Geoff.

It is, indeed, an ex-flake; it has ceased to be! Over to you.
Ian Parsons - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:

Hi Jon

The actual topo (in the book, and possibly downloadable somewhere) shows a telltale line of bolts leading up and stopping abruptly in the middle of nowhere, with the route now taking a different line. In a much earlier topo I think this was indeed labelled "bolts to nowhere". A quick forum search would bring up a thread about the route wherein the matter of the absent flake was raised.
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GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: I am spoilt for choice.

The question:
Who took a twenty foot (or so) fall after breaking a hold just before appearing on live TV (in the UK) and what was the route?

And for extra points:
What route in the UK was described as having 3 matches for aid? (probably too easy).

And one for Ian,
What links Ian Parsons, Richard Burton, Joan Collins, Jane Fonda, Robert Vaughn and the Dukes of Hazzard?
Ian Parsons - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt:

Hi Fred

As far as I'm aware there has been various and quite substantial rockfall in the righthand side of the face in recent years, some of it, as you say, quite possibly earthquake-induced. The feature in question, however, disappeared sometime between the Robbins/Peterson first ascent in 1969 and the second ascent - Charlie Porter and Jack Roberts - in 1972. One wonders just how close to cutting loose it actually was as Peterson fought his way into and up it, with Robbins all the while sitting at the hanging belay/bivi site right underneath; the thing must have been at least a hundred feet high and probably thirty or so wide! In pre-cam days the route certainly required a large rack of bongs, but this was mostly due to a continuous but completely solid 1.5 - 2 inch crack, thereafter increasing to about 5 inches, in the upper part of the "Zebra"; I think the pitch to which you refer is probably the Space Flake further right on Zenith, which I gather flexed enough even for cams to fall out!
Ian Parsons - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Trevallen?
jon on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Oh nooo, tell him he's wrong!
Ian Parsons - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:

It's all right - I promise not to ask another question. You should, though...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Hi Ian, yes well done - you are that man on the cover of a previous Pembroke guide doing Trevallen Pillar and the actors have all appeared in films that appear as route names at Trevallen plus Boss Hogg from the Dukes of Hazzard. So you have extra points but no big cigar as yet as the main question has yet to be answered...
Fredt on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons) I am spoilt for choice.
>
> The question:
> Who took a twenty foot (or so) fall after breaking a hold just before appearing on live TV (in the UK) and what was the route?
>
Bonington on Coronation Street?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt: Was there such a live TV broadcast? Anyway it's not the answer I want.
john arran - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Was it one of the climbers on the BBC Old Man of Hoy outside broadcast? Pete Crew?
Fredt on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Fredt) Was there such a live TV broadcast? Anyway it's not the answer I want.

It was the first, I believe.

GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt: Did Chris take a fall on the ascent?

Just to clarify the person in question fell off just minutes before being shown on live TV.

GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to john arran: Not to my knowledge.
stevieb - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
was it Don Whillans at Gogarth? Not sure of the route, maybe Red Wall, but seem to remember them being saved by a very tenuous belay
GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to stevieb: You are getting warmer. Not the right person or route though.
Dave Ferguson - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Was it Royal Robbins on TV route, or was it the extremely wet cloggy broadcast?
stevieb - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Doh, my copy of the Villain has made the trip to the charity shop, so not sure I'll get much closer to the answer. I'll have one more guess at Joe Brown / Television Route?
jon on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Ah, I know who it was - but only because Ian's just told me. So I'll keep quiet!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Dave Ferguson: Not to my knowledge. However, if you or any previous contibutors can backup your guesses with some publication, I'll hand the baton over.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to stevieb: Again not to my knowledge. But you are getting slightly warmer.

However, if you or any previous contibutors can backup your guesses with some publication, I'll hand the baton over.
john arran - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

A little birdie called Google told me the answer is in the 1998 Climbers' Club Journal
ads.ukclimbing.com
Neil Foster - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Was it one of the Holliwells (or Janet Rogers) on/off T-Rex?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to jon: Yes Ian is a bit of a font of knowledge.

I am surprised that nobody has got the route that was graded with 3 matches for aid. This route was originally give Hard Very Difficult (with 3 matches) and the description gave precise directions as to when to light each match. The route now goes without matches and has (consequently?) been upgraded to VS. It is in the UKC database and the cliff it's on is very well-known.

GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Was it one of the Holliwells (or Janet Rogers) on/off T-Rex?

Bravo Neil. It was Les Holliwell on T Rex. The main event was the Spider's Web featuring Joe and Mac using aid. It was a pity that T Rex did not get more coverage (as I don't believe the bold first pitch was shown at all).

http://www.climbers-club.co.uk/journal/original/1998%20Journal-p41-52.pdf


Over to you.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to john arran: That's given the game away John...
Neil Foster - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

I hadn't read that article, but I do actually remember watching the live ob. I can't remember anything of the climbing, but I do remember the footage cutting back to (what I learned many years later was) T-Rex, just as one of the Holliwells abbed off the route to retrieve an inflatable boat which was breaking free from its mooring...

... I digress.

This will be easy for the cognoscenti, but I only learned of it recently, and I was certainly impressed:-

Yorkshire limestone has a particularly sought after trio of hard sport climbs - The Groove at Malham, Gordale's Supercool, and Urgent Action at Kilnsey.

But who redpointed them all on the same day, apparently running between the cliffs?

Neil
johncoxmysteriously - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Caff?

jcm
Darron - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Fingals Flue at Stoney?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 18 Mar 2013
In reply to Darron: Correct! Give yourself a pat on the back.
Neil Foster - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to Neil Foster)
>
> Caff?
>
> jcm

Nope
Darron - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Darron) Correct! Give yourself a pat on the back.

In that case I'll have a go with something a bit easier.

What links Pete Greenwood, Jerry Moffat and Jimmy Jewell?

GeoffRadcliffe - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to Darron: Sorry Darron but Neil has the baton. This was just an extra points question so no big cigar...
Darron - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Gutted :-)
jon on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hmmm, I was going to say the Keyhole cave at Stoney. Is that the same thing?
puppythedog on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster: Steve McClure?
nick ingram on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Charlton Chestwig?
Neil Foster - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog & nick i:

Nope
GeoffRadcliffe - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to jon: Hi Jon, keyhole cave is in a different part of Stoney. It starts off Windy ledge and goes through the buttress into the gully.
dominic lee - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
Hmmm. Tony Mitchell.?
Neil Foster - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Indeed! Nice one Dom....
dominic lee - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
Only talking about this epic achievement the other day with Nat.

Ok......Which Bohemian hedonist & dabbler in sub atomic particlulars sought to avoid fiscal retribution on a southerly isle.?
ads.ukclimbing.com
puppythedog on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Johnny Redhead? Total Onsight guess?
Tom Last - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Aleister Crowley?
dominic lee - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
Sorry.
dominic lee - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to Southern Man:
Nope.
flaneur - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Al Rouse
dominic lee - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to flaneur:
Correct..Can you name the connecting routes?
flaneur - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Beatnik, Positron and Tax Exile




Who was a really good guy, with both eyes on the main chance?
whispering nic - on 19 Mar 2013
In reply to flaneur: Simon Nadin?
puppythedog on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to TRip: Reading the Villain at the moment. It was Everest on the 71 international expedition to tackle the South West face.
dominic lee - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to flaneur:
John Harlin ?
flaneur - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee and nic:


Neither Harlin nor Nadin.

Puppy should know.
dominic lee - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to flaneur:
Bonnington then ?
flaneur - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Correct.

The actual quote, from Peter Gillman, is "...two eyes on the main chance" but that makes it searchable so I used a little poetic license.
puppythedog on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: New question please :-)
dominic lee - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to flaneur:
was that from his Eiger direct book ?
dominic lee - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to puppythedog:
Sorry, been at work...So, who was the fiend responsible for the felling of the indecent exposure tre...Sorry sorry of course no one knows the answer to that particular riddle.....
New question....What links the first man to climb all six of the great north faces with the victor in the first indoor lead climbing world championship?
Bulls Crack - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

France?
flaneur - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Francois Legrand coined the term "Gaston" for a high side-pull?

The Bonners description was from The Villan.
dominic lee - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Sorry more specific.
dominic lee - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to flaneur:
Ah.ok. Nowt to do with Legrand or high sidepulls though.
dominic lee - on 20 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
Oops! Just checked my facts and realised ive been misleading you all. So if you'll allow me i'll reframe my question. Ahem. What links the first man to climb all six of the great north faces with Shirley Temple and a Staffordshire bastion ?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Hmmm. Possibly something to do with a John Allen route on Hen Cloud named after a publication by someone with rubbery feet?
Dave Garnett - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to dominic lee) Hmmm. Possibly something to do with a John Allen route on Hen Cloud named after a publication by someone with rubbery feet?

I think you have it.
andi turner - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Starlight and Storm?
jon on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

It was Rebuffat's misspelling of the Roaches (Roches) in one of his books.
dominic lee - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Correct Geoff......If you were alluding to Starlight and Storm.
I was mixing John up with Simon.
dominic lee - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to andi turner:
Correct Andi. Geoff got there first but didnt name the book..obviously doesnt want the bother of concocting a question ...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Yep. I realised that. Good question Dom. I also liked the Al Rouse links. Very clever. It inspired me to have another read of A Mountaineer's Life.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to andi turner)
> Correct Andi. Geoff got there first but didnt name the book..obviously doesnt want the bother of concocting a question ...

If nobody minds? I'd like Darron's question to be answered...as he did get the answer to my other question.

Darron's question
What links Pete Greenwood, Jerry Moffat and Jimmy Jewell?
Answers to Darron.
dominic lee - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Cheers Geoff..Still havnt done Beatnik or Positron !!!? have done Tax Exile though.
jon on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to Darron:

Is it something to do with contempt for fixed gear? Greenwood spat on Brown's peg on Kipling Groove (and I expect didn't clip it). Jimmy got Paul Williams to remove the bolt hanger from The Cad before he soloed it. Moffat climbed Master's without Redhead's bolt on the Tormented Ejaculation.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Darron)
>
> Is it something to do with contempt for fixed gear? Greenwood spat on Brown's peg on Kipling Groove (and I expect didn't clip it). Jimmy got Paul Williams to remove the bolt hanger from The Cad before he soloed it. Moffat climbed Master's without Redhead's bolt on the Tormented Ejaculation.

Good answer Jon.
I'd thought of Sword of Damocles, Ulysses Bow (also Slingshot) and the Axe. But I think your answer is better.
Let's see what Darron has to say...
Jim C - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to Crofty: keep them coming, our club will be hosting the Mountain Mind Quiz in Dundee next year, we are setting the questions.

I will be harvesting these later.
Darron - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:

Well done Jon!
jon on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to Darron:

OK, it's still Geoff's question next. Just in case though, what links needles, madness, Eric Escoffier and Pat Littlejohn?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 21 Mar 2013
In reply to jon: Didn't Pat climb the south face of the Fou with 1 point and Eric did it free. Fou is madness and it is one of the Aiguilles (needles).
jon on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Absolutely! Back to you!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to jon: This feels a bit like ping pong :)

This shouldn't be too difficult and it has been recorded in print.
Who broke a wrist at Altrincham climbing wall and whilst doing something stupid managed to pull out their own front teeth?
jon on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Claudie?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to jon: Correct. The route was Something Stupid at Malham and she fell off with the rope in her teeth.

Over to you. I'll take a break for a while...
MG - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: What links the Weisshorn and climate change?
What links the Schreck-Lauterarhorn traverse and Iraq?
jon on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Can't, just going out for the day. Do another one...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to jon) Correct. The route was Something Stupid at Malham and she fell off with the rope in her teeth.
>
I forgot to add that her full name was Claudia Dunn.

GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Can't, just going out for the day. Do another one...
okay just for you...

Who did the first solo of a certain face (graded TD) which had over 800 metres of climbing and then tried to cycle 112 miles only to fall into river with just 10 miles to go? and what was the route?

MG - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to MG)
> [...]
>
> The game is that you have to answer a question before you can ask one quiz question.

Sorry!

> Anyway it was John Tyndall for the first question

Yes

and I have no idea as yet about the second one you posed.

Ha!

GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to MG:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe) What links the Weisshorn and climate change?
> What links the Schreck-Lauterarhorn traverse and Iraq?

The game is that you have to answer a question before you can ask one quiz question.
Anyway it was John Tyndall for the first question and I have no idea as yet about the second one you posed.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to MG: Back to the Quiz Question:

Who did the first solo of a certain face (graded TD) which had over 800 metres of climbing and then tried to cycle 112 miles only to fall into river with just 10 miles to go? and what was the route?
MG - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Blodig??
MG - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to MG: Aiguille de Jardin?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to MG: No to both. Sorry.
Grahame N - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Hermann Buhl
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> Hermann Buhl

What was the route?

Grahame N - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Was it the NE face of the Piz Badile, Cassin route?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Was it the NE face of the Piz Badile, Cassin route?

Yes. Well done. He was an amazing guy.

Over to you.
Grahame N - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Thanks.
Okay. Name the 1973 album that inspired Cuthbertson and Hamilton to 'cut' through a walking aid in 1977 ?
dominic lee - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N: Majorie razorblade and Crutch on Cave Crag Dunkeld.??
Grahame N - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to Grahame N) Majorie razorblade and Crutch on Cave Crag Dunkeld.??


Wow, that was quick.
Yes, Marjory Razorblade by Kevin Coyne.
I'll need to think of something more difficult if I get another turn.
Over to you.
dominic lee - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N: What links Cloggy, a Tom Proctor Classic & Dumbarton ?
jon on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Must be Chemin de Fer?
dominic lee - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:
nope ?
ads.ukclimbing.com
johncoxmysteriously - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

I'm thinking something more Shakespearian, somehow. Rhapsody, Circe and Midsummer's, maybe?

OK, I'm still working on it.....

jcm
Ramblin dave - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:
Bows? Not sure about the Tom Proctor bit, though...
dominic lee - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: High culture is involved..
dominic lee - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: Bows ?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Good question. I just pray the next one is as good.
dominic lee - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Your barking up the wrong tree...
dominic lee - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Indiana Jones might lend a hand..
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Oh so its' not
Our Father - the Lords Prayer
Requiem - Mass
Face Mecca to pray.
Interesting...
dominic lee - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: No Geoff...But a very good link.
dominic lee - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to dominic lee) Indiana Jones might lend a hand,in the shape of Harrison Ford.... Or Sophocles...?

GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

It's all Greek to me. I'll just have to ring my mother, she might know.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: A little bird told me that in the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
Ramblin dave - on 22 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
You're getting at Cyclops, Oedipus Ring Your Mother and what, Apollo? "Greek myths" seems like a rather loose link...
dominic lee - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:
You have a fragment of the picture,but what about Harrison Ford ?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to Ramblin dave)
> You have a fragment of the picture,but what about Harrison Ford ?

He would help identify the aforementioned little bird on the Black Cliff?
ripper - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: something to do with Shrike?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to ripper:
> (In reply to Skyfall) something to do with Shrike?
I was thinking more late Jurassic?

dominic lee - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Think humour, protest, territoriality...or ask Led Zeppilin.
dominic lee - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Early ford.
dominic lee - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> Think humour, protest, territoriality...or ask Led Zeppilin.
The expression of...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Is it anything to do with Graffiti?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to dominic lee) Is it anything to do with Graffiti?

Dumbarton Rock is covered in it.
Catheral Graffiti on Cloggy
Oedipus Ring... something to do with Stoney cafe loo and a FA by Tom.
dominic lee - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
Congrats Geoff. I was alluding to Redheads tagging of Indian Face rather than the route name it inspired. Stoney Cafes famous toilet graffiti and of course Dumbi is covered in the stuff..
Harrison Ford appeared in American Graffiti,and Led Zeppelin created Physical Graffiti...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to dominic lee)
> Congrats Geoff. I was alluding to Redheads tagging of Indian Face rather than the route name it inspired. Stoney Cafes famous toilet graffiti and of course Dumbi is covered in the stuff..
> Harrison Ford appeared in American Graffiti,and Led Zeppelin created Physical Graffiti...

Phew!


dominic lee - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Indeed...
jon on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to dominic lee)
> [...]
>
> Phew!

Still, kept you off the streets!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Okay.

What connects:
a derbyshire first ascent for which the gear was retrieved by a frogman, one of Gary Gibson's Pembrokeshire routes, a fine Welsh offering by Pete Crew which partly fell down, a route in Borrowdale by Pete Whillance and Steve Clegg, and the North Face of the Eiger?
Ian Parsons - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Clint Eastwood?
Ian Parsons - on 23 Mar 2013
Specifically:

- High Plains Drifter
- Play Misty For Me
- Gauntlet
- Where Eagles Dare
- The Eiger sanction
GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> Specifically:
>
> - High Plains Drifter (a moac or 2 was dropped in the pool)
> - Play Misty For Me
> - Gauntlet
> - Where Eagles Dare
> - The Eiger sanction

Well done Ian. Too easy?

Back to you ...

GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> [...]
>
> Still, kept you off the streets!

Where were and Ian you when I needed you on Dom's last question? :)
The snow here is keeping me off the streets at the mo.

Ian Parsons - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Not particularly easy, Geoff - until the penny had dropped by pure chance!

Who was the first person to climb the Eigerwand twice? By "Eigerwand" I mean that section of the north face wherein lies the 1938 route - ie between the North Pillar on the left and the West/Northwest Ridge on the right.
dominic lee - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Dougal Haston.?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Not particularly easy, Geoff - until the penny had dropped by pure chance!

Perhaps I should have ommitted the Derbyshire reference on High Plains Drifter? Too late now...
Ian Parsons - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Nope.
Ian Parsons - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hi Geoff

In fact the "lightbulb" moment occurred when I thought of who was in Where Eagles Dare - not Richard Burton this time, the other one - and that he'd also been on the Eiger. HPD and the others then confirmed it.
Gordon Stainforth - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

A wild guess ... it wasn't by any chance Eric Jones, was it?
Ian Parsons - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

No, Gordon. I suppose an easy clue is to point out that although Eric indeed climbed the face twice, as did Haston before him, neither were the first to do so.
Gordon Stainforth - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

I suspect it would have been a Frenchman, someone like Mazeaud.
Neil Foster - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Clare Reading offers Herman Buhl...
ads.ukclimbing.com
jon on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Bonington?
dominic lee - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Toni Heibler.?
Fredt on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:

Walter Almberger
Ian Parsons - on 23 Mar 2013
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Yes.

Good one, Fred; over to you.
Ian Parsons - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Sorry Dom - there should have been an extra "nope" in there! Right team, though.
Fredt on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall:

Who bolted a Boy Scouts Face, (which was already Amazing) on the Devils Mountain, making more than an Earthling?
dominic lee - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt:
Tod Skinner. Some connection with close encounters.?
Fredt on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to Fredt)
> Tod Skinner. Some connection with close encounters.?

No and no.
Neil Foster - on 23 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt:

(by the power of Google, though not without a fight...!)

...Ed Drummond
Fredt on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
> (In reply to Fredt)
>
> (by the power of Google, though not without a fight...!)
>
> ...Ed Drummond


Correct, but Google is cheating, even though I thought it couldn't be googled!
Would you care to explain your answer?
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt:
>
I agree Google is cheating, which is why I confessed(!)...

...but it would have taken some impressive 'local' knowledge to get it without, and I still needed to unlock your cryptic clue!

The Devil's Mountain in question is Mount Diablo in the Bay Area of San Francisco. It has a crag on it called Boy Scout Rocks, which has a buttress/route(?) called Amazing Face.

It also has a route (more than earthling) called Earthcling, which was first bolted by our own EW-D.

Sounds simple but that actually took about 20 minutes of Googling....

Neil
Fredt on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
> (In reply to Fredt)
> [...]
> I agree Google is cheating, which is why I confessed(!)...
>
> ...but it would have taken some impressive 'local' knowledge to get it without, and I still needed to unlock your cryptic clue!
>
> The Devil's Mountain in question is Mount Diablo in the Bay Area of San Francisco. It has a crag on it called Boy Scout Rocks, which has a buttress/route(?) called Amazing Face.
>
> It also has a route (more than earthling) called Earthcling, which was first bolted by our own EW-D.
>
> Sounds simple but that actually took about 20 minutes of Googling....
>
> Neil

Well done. My local knowledge consists of the fact that I climbed there a few years ago, and a local told me that Drummond put up Earthcling, (which is around 5.10 I think), hand-drilling the bolts (no powerdrill)as he went on the first ascent. Which I thought was impressive. And it led to long ethical discussions about whether replacing the bolts would also have to be done on lead.

Whose turn it?
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt:

What connects:-


Beta dispensed in Hushpuppies

Cheering for Arsenal

A lamented ivory expert whose home was revived by Donny and Marie Osmond

A Mayen arête

Up and down Manifold crossing flatley attributed to the home of boys in blue


With full explanations please Mr Parsons...

Neil
Ian Parsons - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Was this one you prepared earlier?
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Okay - apologies - this was clearly too obscure, though I thought Ian would enjoy the cryptic approach.

Some clues below:-


What connects:-


Beta dispensed in Hushpuppies (3,4) (answer is a famous route, which the FA used to demonstrate thus attired. But the answer is not the connection - quite)

Cheering for Arsenal (4,2,4) (FA quote)

A lamented ivory expert whose home was revived by Donny and Marie Osmond (3,4) (this one has nothing to do with climbing, though it might give you a way in?)

A Mayen arête (8) (on the same crag as the route alluded to in the second clue).

Up and down Manifold crossing flatley attributed to the home of boys in blue (4,2,3,5) - oh come on, that one has enough clues already, doesn't it...?

Explanations as well as the answer, please!

Neil
Ian Parsons - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Hmmm..

Cheering for Arsenal suggests "Come on arms!" - so Ron/Cromlech.

If Cromlech then an arete could be Crucifix, though no idea how clue works.

Ditto Lord.

If you'd asked me about the Hush Puppies (Hushpuppies are a food product!) I'd have said Our Father, which clearly doesn't fit.

I can only assume that a lamented ivory expert is a deceased pianist - unless it's cryptic - rather than something more directly related to elephants.

Perhaps somebody else has a inkling.
Ian Parsons - on 24 Mar 2013
..."an" inkling.
dominic lee - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> ..."an" inkling.

I to was thinking our father for #1. Overlord for #4..if its a Mayer route? And Lord of the dance for #5..But the fog still surrounds me....
dominic lee - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
Decorating productivity seriously impaired today...Thanks Neil..
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

You're welcome Dom...

You are just about there between you. Just needs someone to sum up, get the elephant expert, er I mean the deceased pianist, and give the specific 1-word connection...

Oh, and then suggest the next question!

Neil
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Ian Parsons - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Jon Lord? There seem to be a lot of lords!
dominic lee - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Jon Lord .Keyboard player and founding member of Deep Purple...one of Donnie and Marie Osmonds hits..Could the one word connection be Lord..?
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Indeed it could - nice one Dom (and Ian).

If either of you would like to explain the connection to Our Father (easy!) and the clue to Lord of the Dance, en route to setting your next question, that would be fine by me...!

Bowing out.

Neil
Ian Parsons - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Well obviously it's the Lord's Prayer; did you mean 3,6? Still working on the other one.
Ian Parsons - on 24 Mar 2013
Ah - it's at Blue Scar.
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to Neil Foster)
>
> Well obviously it's the Lord's Prayer; did you mean 3,6?

Crikey - yes, of course I did. No idea where 3,4 came from - sorry.
Gordon Stainforth - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

I always thought the Hush Puppies connection with Our Father related to Tom Proctor soloing it this way as a party piece.
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

> Ah - it's at Blue Scar.

Well, there is one on Blue Scar, but there is also one on Beeston Tor, as Dom has realised. Any thoughts on the rest of the clue (which was rather corny, I admit)?
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to Neil Foster)
>
> I always thought the Hush Puppies connection with Our Father related to Tom Proctor soloing it this way as a party piece.

The way I was told it, Gordon, was that lots of young hopefuls would come to try Our Father, and be repulsed by the boulder problem start. Tom would then demonstrate it to them wearing Hush Puppies.

Could be an urban myth, but more likely hard fact, I suspect!

Neil

dominic lee - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster: Up and down..A jig.... Lord of the dance is a terrace chant popular with Chelsea...Michael Flatley, author of lord of the dance.. which gave me an inkling.
Ian Parsons - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons)
>
> [...]
>
> Well, there is one on Blue Scar, but there is also one on Beeston Tor, as Dom has realised. Any thoughts on the rest of the clue (which was rather corny, I admit)?

Well I thought I'd finally understood the "boys in blue" bit, but clearly not. And how does Overlord work? I've been scratching my head over routes at a crag in thr Eifel region!

Ian Parsons - on 24 Mar 2013
Ah - Chelsea; I was wondering what they had to do with it!
Gordon Stainforth - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

I thought the 'boys in blue' was possibly a reference to 'flies' in Lord of the Flies, because 'flies'/'bluebottles' is quite obscure slang for the police. But I've no idea what the Manifold and 'home' bit was about.
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> Up and down..A jig.... Lord of the dance is a terrace chant popular with Chelsea...Michael Flatley, author of lord of the dance.. which gave me an inkling.

Yes, that was the Flatley bit. And the Manifold bit was just a reference to the route in question being on Beeston.

Not sure why you are all struggling with home of the boys in blue though.

Lord of the Dance was a Flatley show, but what is the source of the original?
Neil Foster - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
>
>And how does Overlord work? I've been scratching my head over routes at a crag in thr Eifel region!

No, Dom was right. It is a Steve Mayers route - just a play on words with Mayen doubly misleading because it looked like I had misspelt Mayan...

Sorry - bit naff!

dominic lee - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to Neil Foster)
> [...]
>
> Well I thought I'd finally understood the "boys in blue" bit, but clearly not. And how does Overlord work? I've been scratching my head over routes at a crag in thr Eifel region!

My first thought was Steve Mayers and his connection with the Cromlech. Dont have the guide though so the route was a guess as it seemed to fit..also looked at the eifel crags, to confuse things Suzanne found reference to a brilliant arete on Mayan smith Gobats blog..Ivory Tower.
dominic lee - on 24 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster: Hmmm. I thought we had dealt with the boys in blue. The original source of Lord of the Dance was a Shaker song called Simple Gifts and Shaker men wore simple blue denim work cloths...??
Ian Parsons - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee and Gordon:

I think that one of the real skills with Neil's question lies with the number of false trails he's managed to lay - however inadvertently! I for one spent some time pursuing a possible link between Mjolnir (Thor's hammer), a route at Mayen, and Thor's cave - a feature which, with its two entrances, arguably commands a view "up and down" the Manifold Valley; not to mention the fact that "The Hammers" is the nickname of another London football club - although, perversely, Chelsea never occurred to me in that particular respect! Orpheus is another Mayen route that offered some distraction. Well aware of Neil's predeliction - or not - for baroque music I reasoned that this would probably not involve Gluck, but Offenbach might be entirely another matter; one could argue a loose connection between the underworld and one of Donny Osmond's tracks - though not Marie's - and one did of course have to cross a river to get there (Riverdance having registered fairly early in the procedure, although the only Styx I could think of, at Cowarch, didn't seem to help). And don't get me started on Ken Clarke and his suede shoes, and his possible support for various football clubs!

Neil - you are Araucaria, and I claim my £5. But not - definitely not - the next question; Dom was way ahead of me.
Neil Foster - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to Neil Foster) Hmmm. I thought we had dealt with the boys in blue. The original source of Lord of the Dance was a Shaker song called Simple Gifts and Shaker men wore simple blue denim work cloths...??

True enough, Dom, but I was thinking of more of Appalachian Spring.....

Neil Foster - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons
>
> I think that one of the real skills with Neil's question lies with the number of false trails he's managed to lay - however inadvertently! I for one spent some time pursuing... etc

My assertion in an earlier post that I thought Ian would enjoy the cryptic approach is entirely vindicated...!

Neil
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Neil Foster - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons and Dominic Lee:
>
> I think that one of the real skills with Neil's question lies with the number of false trails he's managed to lay - however inadvertently!

I must apologise again for indicating that Our Father was 3,4 - that is simply unforgivable...

... but I did quite like Cheering for Arsenal, even if it was probably impossible without the hint - though Ian got it quickly after that.

And I thought Ian would recognise a lamented ivory expert as being a dead pianist - which he did.

Jon Lord was a fantastic keyboard player, who was trained in classical piano at an early age. He died last July...

Neil



Gordon Stainforth - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

I think that has to be the most difficult quiz question I've ever seen.
Ian Parsons - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

It's not over yet, Gordon! I don't know whether a fat lady sings at any point in Lord Of The Dance but, as Neil pointed out, nobody's yet defined the "home of boys in blue" bit. He's just enlightened me - very much a "doh" moment - so I can prompt if required!
Neil Foster - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I'm sorry Gordon - it was a bit more challenging than it should have been, I admit. In my defence, I know just how impressive Ian P is at cryptic crosswords, and given he was active on the thread at the time, I rather crafted my challenge with him in mind...!

The fact Ian then disappeared off on flights of fancy even more contrived than my original question is something for which I take no responsibilty whatsoever.

Now, what about this home of the boys in blue...?

Neil
johncoxmysteriously - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

I thought we'd established that Lord of the Dance is sung by Chelsea fans, or at least indecent songs to the same tune are?

jcm
Neil Foster - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

We had, though I wasn't aware of that when I set the question (nor any other football fact anyone comes up with, now or in the future!).

So, in the context of Appalachian Spring, where is home to the boys in blue....?

Neil
johncoxmysteriously - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

I have no idea, but I notice from this page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Spring

that the phrase Appalachian Spring itself comes from a book called 'The Bridge'. Chelsea FC of course play at Stamford Bridge, popularly known as The Bridge......

jcm
Neil Foster - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Forget Chelsea!

Now, if Scots come from Scotland...
johncoxmysteriously - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Blueland?!

I give up. (If it helps though I think I would have got the Lord connection had I not been playing chess all weekend.)

jcm
Ramblin dave - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I think you were effectively there already: Copland.
johncoxmysteriously - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

Oh good grief. Yes, I see.

Not clear really who answered Neil's question right (except that it certainly wasn't me). I say you go, RD.

jcm
Ian Parsons - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

I was about to say:

Possibly a short pause as people register that it's Aaron Copland, not Stewart Copeland - perhaps another of Neil's unwitting red herrings!
Ramblin dave - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Nah, I know nothing about climbing. Open question if you want (but perhaps a bit less cryptic this time...)
Ian Parsons - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

Dominic definitely did most of the effective spadework and, if I recall, knows a bit about climbing...
Gordon Stainforth - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
>

> Now, what about this home of the boys in blue...?

Scotland Yard and/or Hendon, I would have thought.

Ramblin dave - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Good call.

Although if you want an easy one until he gets here, what links Shuttingsloe to Burbage via Castleton?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: Matterhorn?
Ramblin dave - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Yep. Thought that might be a bit easier! :-)

Now back to waiting for Dominic...
dominic lee - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: Ok, time for an easier one?

What connects

A near miss in The Karakoram

An american turkey shoot

An exciting encounter for Messers Conway and Jackson closer to home

and frustration for a Mallorcan ace?

Mrs Brown might be able to shed some light....

Same strict rules as Mr Foster apply. Enjoy, I'm off to the wall
GeoffRadcliffe - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Is it something to do with knees?
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GeoffRadcliffe - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Specifically

Martin Boysen got his knee stuck on Trango Tower

Wounded Knee at Indian Creek - named after the massacre

Knee Trembler by CJ and BC

Rafael Nadal had a knee injury

Knees up Mother Brown

Sorry I couldn't think of climbing references for the last two. So it's probably wrong...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

>
> Knees up Mother Brown
>
> Sorry I couldn't think of climbing references for the last two. So it's probably wrong...

However There is a Knees Up Mother Brown at Eastby
Gordon Stainforth - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Wow!
dominic lee - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Spot on Geoff in every aspect..Away you go.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe) Spot on Geoff in every aspect..Away you go.

I am impressed by the very entertaining questions of Neil and Dominic. So give me a few minutes...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Okay. Sticking with the theme, although I have a much more straightforward question if you prefer.

What connects the following with full explanations:

- Seaside excursion by guide and puzzle solver has connections with an artificial rubber enterprise.

- Psychological thriller involving a nameless jockey is solved by footman I hear.

- Miss Pyper's naughty boy who tells all was inspired by breaker addicts on drugs with links to Don.

- Superb arete that requires creative thinking on a sunken crown by chivalrous alpinist.

- A pilgrim's home playground leads to bad smell from a bandit.

- Pre-eminent Jazz fusion band may have been responsible for shallow groove by a man satiated with himself. This is serious.

- Middleweight pleas to influential poet gives tax man a delicate proposition.
Neil Foster - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Are we allowed to ask for the 'numbers' of the answer words yet?

You can even give us the correct numbers, if you like...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Are we allowed to ask for the 'numbers' of the answer words yet?
>
> You can even give us the correct numbers, if you like...

Hopefully my arithmetic is still okay.
What connects the following with full explanations:

- Seaside excursion by guide and puzzle solver has connections with an artificial rubber enterprise. (4,8)

- Psychological thriller involving a nameless jockey is solved by footman I hear. (4,5,3,2)

- Miss Pyper's naughty boy who tells all was inspired by breaker addicts on drugs with links to Don. (6,8)

- Superb arete that requires creative thinking on a sunken crown by chivalrous alpinist. (4,3)

- A pilgrim's home playground leads to bad smell from a bandit. (4)

- Pre-eminent Jazz fusion band may have been responsible for shallow groove by a man satiated with himself. This is serious. (7,6)

- Middleweight pleas to influential poet gives tax man a delicate proposition. (9)


I will also tell you that there are some clues in other parts of this thread.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

More clues tomorrow if nobody comes up with anything.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 25 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> More clues tomorrow if nobody comes up with anything.

I should add: the numbers all refer to route names.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: A small refinement may help.

A pilgrim's home playground leads to bad smell (unless mended) from a bandit. (4)

Some more clues without being too revealing:

Only one word from routes 2 and 3 form part of the link; otherwise it's the entire route name.

I have given clues to the first ascentionist of each route. In fact two of the first ascentionists concerned have contributed to this thread!

Hot money plays a part in the basis of the name of the first route.
John2 - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Would Weather Report be the jazz fusion band?
Al Evans on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to John2: This has evolved into far more a cyptic crossword than a climbing quiz. Sadly.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to John2:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe) Would Weather Report be the jazz fusion band?

Indeed they would be!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans: Perhaps you are right. I will rephrase the clues to be slightly less cryptic this afternoon if it isn't solved. However most of the clues are to do with first ascentionists, climbs and perhaps the inspiration for their names (just worded in a slightly less obvious way). For instance the reference to Miss Pyper's naughty boy can be read in a currently available climbing book. And you must know who the Tax Man is?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> I should say who the Tax man was as I am not sure he still is a tax man.

John2 - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Well the shallow groove bit is painfully obvious. Clearly a career writing the Daily Telegraph stock market reports awaits you. And the man full of himself refers to the title of Johnny Dawes' autobiography.
John2 - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: I assume the tax man is Mick Fowler, so the route is presumably Breakaway.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to John2:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe) I assume the tax man is Mick Fowler, so the route is presumably Breakaway.
Yes and no.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to John2:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe) Well the shallow groove bit is painfully obvious. Clearly a career writing the Daily Telegraph stock market reports awaits you. And the man full of himself refers to the title of Johnny Dawes' autobiography.

Yes. It wouldn't surprise me that Johnny would name his route after a Jazz Fusion band.
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Weather certainly seems to be a common theme. By my reckoning 1,2,4 and possibly 5 are all from the same location, but 6 isn't.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Weather certainly seems to be a common theme. By my reckoning 1,2,4 and possibly 5 are all from the same location, but 6 isn't.

Getting warmer Ian unlike the weather. 1, 2, 4 are from the same area. 5 certainly isn't.
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

That's a relief - I was having to grasp at increasingly obscure straws to try and make the clues work with that one!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: The pilgrim in question triumphed on a shovel.
Neil Foster - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Remember two things when considering posting further clues at this stage Geoff:-

- some of us still work for a living, and won't have time to look at this during the day

- Mr Parsons appears to be playing the game, and he won't need clues anyway...

Cheers

Neil
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster: After a previous comment on being sadly too cryptic, I wasn't sure that there was still interest in keeping it going too long. Hopefully, I hadn't given too much away. So I'll take on board your comments. It's a pity I was out last Sunday, I missed out on most of your challenge.
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)

and he won't need clues anyway...


Speak for yourself, Neil - I need all the help I can get!
johncoxmysteriously - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

So who's Miss Pyper's naughty boy, for a start? Jerry?!?

jcm
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Don't worry, Geoff - I don't think your last clue was a giveaway; I've just got the answer to that one (confirmed by the bandit) but I've still no idea about the pilgrim thing!
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

No idea, John; I'm still scratching my head over that and the taxman question. Have you got all the others?
johncoxmysteriously - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

No!!!

jcm
johncoxmysteriously - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

>....the taxman question

Maybe it's not Fowler at all?! I find I'm rather weak on MF's new routes, beyond Linden, Breakaway, that thing at Millstone which might be called London Pride, and a vague idea he might have done 'something on Southern sandstone'. Doesn't really seem to justice to the man's contribution, somehow.

jcm
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Actually, I've just got that one; it is Fowler, as Geoff said.
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Yes - I was struggling similarly. Spent some time - to no avail - trying to recall the name of the thing he and Andy C did at Bempton; that's not it, though.
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

I think that you might have won this one Geoff, unless somebody's about to shout "Bingo"! It's just been suggested to me that, rather than letting it run for however long it takes, we should simply agree that it's "cards on the table" time and show our various hands. Personally speaking, I think I have six of the seven answers but am still somewhat baffled by a couple of the actual clues; I'm completely stumped by the seventh, and don't expect to be making further progress. I imagine others will be at a similar stage, albeit possibly with more chance of ultimate success. What do you think?
dominic lee - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Ian. I have 2 & 3 to figure. Would 2 be Gibson centered /?? Was the Jerry reference for 3 reliable?? seems to fit, although miss pyper ??
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Hi Dom

It's Miss Pyper that I'm still wrestling with, in a manner of speaking; yes I know, apologies - it's completely beneath the standards of this forum to even suggest that it might be ok to end a clause with a preposition. Yes - I derived the same meaning from "footman".

The clues that I can't seem to fathom out are the artificial rubber thing and the bad smell, although in the case of the former I've made some sense of Geoff's subsequent "hot money" clue.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have got weather report if John hadn't offered it; I'm assuming that's the answer as the rest seems to fit together with my "weather" theme.
dominic lee - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons) Ian. I have 2 & 3 to figure. Would 2 be Gibson centered /?? Was the Jerry reference for 3 reliable?? seems to fit, although miss pyper ??

Oops ! just being idle about #3...

Neil Foster - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Surely the bad smell is simply breaking wind...?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Skyfall: Just got in. I think you haven't read the right book. Otherwise you would have the revelation.
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GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: You have to think about the guys you are addicted to breakers known as ? Also what is the Don connection. Think about the theme plus who the ascentionist is.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Have you worked out the Pilgrim yet? What does a pilgrim do? Also, if you know the route read the route description.
dominic lee - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: I was thinking Don... Don Morrison...jim morrison..The doors ????
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Yes - I should have actually said all the bit leading up to that; the smell itself is fairly self-explanitory!
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

If you've got #3 then it sounds like you're closer than I am.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: You are thinking too hard. It's not that cryptic.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to dominic lee)


> The clues that I can't seem to fathom out are the artificial rubber thing and the bad smell, although in the case of the former I've made some sense of Geoff's subsequent "hot money" clue.
>
If you have the route name, you should be able to work out possible reasons for calling it that. Maybe it's the name of ...
dominic lee - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to dominic lee)
>
> If you've got #3 then it sounds like you're closer than I am.

No not yet.
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hi Geoff

That's probably my problem, unless it's an old one; apart from guides I haven't read a climbing book for decades.

Pilgrims occasionally Face Mecca, but that doesn't fit in at all with what I think the answer is.

Shovel, among other things, is slang for Harley. Is that relevant?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Hi Geoff
>
> That's probably my problem, unless it's an old one; apart from guides I haven't read a climbing book for decades.
>
> Pilgrims occasionally Face Mecca, but that doesn't fit in at all with what I think the answer is.
>
> Shovel, among other things, is slang for Harley. Is that relevant?

Think what a pilgrim does and then think of a well-known climbing association.

Also are you presuming the pilgrim is english...

GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Pilgrims don't have to be religous...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Let me know if it is time to show your hands.
I suggest the best hand wins.
All can then be revealed...
dominic lee - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons)
> [...]
>
>
> [...]
> If you have the route name, you should be able to work out possible reasons for calling it that. Maybe it's the name of ...

Wet Suits...rubber rings.????
GeoffRadcliffe - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> [...]
>
> Wet Suits...rubber rings.????
If all else fails try Google...
dominic lee - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Google...whats that ????
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

> Also are you presuming the pilgrim is english...

With the possible Harley connection I suppose I was thinking more of American Hell's Angels - although that hasn't got me anywhere either. As nobody else seems to be either awake or interested I suggest I offer my take on #s 1,4,5,6 and 7, with Dom's agreement, and see if we concur. It sounds like he may still be making progress on the other two.
dominic lee - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: got it...
Ian Parsons - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Phew!
dominic lee - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> [...]
>
> With the possible Harley connection I suppose I was thinking more of American Hell's Angels - although that hasn't got me anywhere either. As nobody else seems to be either awake or interested I suggest I offer my take on #s 1,4,5,6 and 7, with Dom's agreement, and see if we concur. It sounds like he may still be making progress on the other two.

IN TOTAL AGREEMENT.
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Ok, here we go:

1) Seaside excursion = sea cliff route; guide and puzzle solver (not too egotistically, I hope) = Jon and me; route = High Pressure at Trevallen. Fits in with developing weather theme but couldn't work out the rubber stuff; "hot money", however, fits in with Private Schultz with which it shares a top pitch. I could well be wrong on this one!

4) Suberb arete = Blue Sky at Saddle Head; creative thinking = blue sky thinking; sunken crown = a head with a dip in it, ie Saddle Head; chivalrous alpinist = one who's been knighted - Pat is actually OBE rather than Sir Pat, but that seemed close enough for our purposes. Also fits the weather theme.

5) Route = Wind, on the Grochan; bad smell is obvious; FA Martin CROOK, or bandit. Again, weather. Still haven't got the Pilgrim.

6) As John said, Weather Report; the rest seems self-explanitory unless I'm missing something.

7) There was a middleweight boxer nicknamed Hurricane; a poet called Cane; "Hurry, Cane" could be a plea; it's a Fowler route, and presumably delicate; again, weather.
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GeoffRadcliffe - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Not bad but not quite there.

What about Dom?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Will post full answer in the next few minutes...
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Of course when I said I could be wrong on the first one, I actually meant I was probably wrong on all of them!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Seaside excursion (High Pressure) by guide (Jon de Montjoye) and puzzle solver (Ian Parsons) has connections with an artificial rubber enterprise.
- High Pressure (1932) A film about an artifical rubber company based on the play Hot Money.

Psychological thriller (Play Misty for Me - already mentioned in thread) involving a nameless (man with no name:Clint) jockey (DJ) is solved by footman I hear. [I hear foot man thus chiropodist Gary Gibson.]
Play Misty for Me - Gary Gibson

Miss Pyper's naughty boy who tells all (reveals or revelations - Jerry's book opening chapter describes his naughtiness to teacher Miss Pyper) was inspired by breaker addicts (surfers) on drugs (LSD) with links to Don (Mafia).
- Orange Sunshine: The strange but true story of the Hippie Mafia: The Brotherhood of Eternal Love and Its Quest to Spread Peace, Love, and Acid to the World.
- Orange Sunshine - Jerry Moffatt

classic that requires creative thinking (Blue Sky Thinking) on a sunken crown (Saddle Head) by chivalrous alpinist (Pat Littlejohn who has the OBE). OBE - The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire is an order of chivalry established on 4 June 1917 by King George V.
- Blue Sky, Saddle head Pat Littlejohn

A pilgrim's (Hermann Buhl made a pilgrimmage to Nagha Parbat) home playground (Kaisergebirge) leads to bad smell (unless mended) (Wind) from a bandit.
- Wind (starts as for kaisergebirge) by Martin Crook
Note, Also Hermann did the first solo ascent of Piz Badile (Italian for Shovel).


Pre-eminent Jazz fusion band (Weather report) may have been responsible for shallow groove by a man satiated with himself.
- Weather report by J Dawes whose book is "Full of Myself"

Middleweight pleas to influential poet gives tax man (mick Fowler) a delicate proposition.
Rubens Carter aka Hurricane was convicted of a triple homicide but pleaded his innocence. Bob Dylan (poet) wrote the song.
-Hurricane Mick Fowler and John Stevenson

The theme is Weather.
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

I'll add #2 if Dom's got that now?
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
Beat me to it.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: With apologies to everyone involved. I think Ian probably deserves it with an honourable mention to John2.

So if nobody objects, Ian has the baton...

Not that I expect to get the baton again but my next one would be straightforward.
lithos on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

jesus, this is UKC not Brain of Britain !!!!! I got interested then lost intrest as I eailsed it was to obscure for me but obviously not for a few - well done guys.
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

I was right off on Hot Money then, and missed the detail that Eastwood was "The man with no name". Kicking myself about Buhl; NPP was obviously formative reading and I explored the Kaisergebirge possibilities, but never made the connection. Despite trawling the database for route names involving weather conditions - including sunshine - I completely missed that one. And got Hurricane right by a completely wrong route!

I can come up with a question if required, but I think we should hear from Dom first as I suspect he was closer.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Agreed. I'm off to bed.
dominic lee - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Right. Dont laugh.

1..Seaside route Trevallen. Jon,DM [puzzle solver and guide]..High Pressure.. Theres a film called High Pressure Featuring an artificial rubber company.

2... NO idea apart from Gary connection.

3... Jerry. I'll kick myself.

4...Blue Sky..Saddle Head. Littlejohn OBE. sunken crown medical condition to do with fontanels..Blue sky thinking, along with thought for difficult access.

5..Wind on the Grochan. farting etc. Bandit..Crook .Pilgrimage..neighbouring route called Lords.

6.Weather report. Jazz fusion band. Dawes. full of himself.

7..Hurricane on Curbar. Hurry,, plea..Melville Cane, poet . Mick Fowler taxman.

All weather related.And now can i go to bed...


dominic lee - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Ive kicked myself....
Thought i'd got it with Lourds..
dominic lee - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Nice one Geoff, if a tad arcane. Sorry for holding you all up last night..one finger typing...over to Ian.
dominic lee - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to lithos: More like Round Britain Quiz...Contestants desperately scrabbling for clues from a omniscient quiz master....
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Morning Dom. Apologies for the delay - machine went into that annoying "let's just very slowly install a bunch of updates" scenario which seems to render it temporarily unusable!

Perversely, and luckily, Play Misty was the first one I stumbled on while trying to think of a film title to match Geoff's word lengths; an initial idea that they might all be routes at Pembroke rapidly produced two more, along with the weather link which was confirmed by John - I don't think I'd have ever got Weather Report. It occurs to me that I should probably know why we used the name High Pressure. In fact I've no idea; it was Jon's route - he led both pitches and came up with the name. If the film was the inspiration he certainly kept very quiet about the rubber thing. My main recollection about the route was being invited to inspect what I took to be a finger pocket somewhere on the first pitch, only to find a small pair of eyes peering back out!

I see we shared a similar idea about Hurricane, with not a Dylan in sight.

To business:

A dual approach here. Two questions of broadly different types, one a typical broadsheet-style cryptic and the other a more straightforward "either you know it or you don't" variety; it should be obvious which is which. First to answer either one is the winner, who sets the next question; second prize, for whomever subsequently gets the other one, is a warm glow plus round of applause from the UKC Massive. This approach will hopefully appeal to a wider spectrum of quiz preferences.

1) At which crag might recent victor be at home with article and magician's stock-in-trade, I hear, for career disciplinarian?

2) Who, and in the course of relating which particular event, recorded - presumably figuratively - the passage of bouncing and vociferous pachyderms?
johncoxmysteriously - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Hah - well, finally I know one; Ed Drummond, in the course of recording in Hard Rock his fourth ascent of Great Wall at Easter 1967.

jcm
jon on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Ed Drummond writing about Great Wall in his brilliant and never bettered Hard Rock essay. I think.
jon on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Drat! FFS don't do a cryptic one John.
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Hmm - three minutes; all that chess is clearly sapping your reserves John! Excellent, and over to you (while a diehard cadre continues to beaver at the other one).
Neil Foster - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
>
> 1) At which crag might recent victor be at home with article and magician's stock-in-trade, I hear, for career disciplinarian?
>

Dominatrix
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Neil Foster - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons)
> [...]
>
> Dominatrix


Or more accurately, Kilnsey Crag

Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

No. Dominatrix isn't a crag. I thought you were at work!
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:
> (In reply to Neil Foster)
> [...]
>
>
> Or more accurately, Kilnsey Crag

Correct. (Cue applause!)

Gordon Stainforth - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Neil Foster:

Agghhh! I couldn't do the Dom bit... was getting there. Congrats.
BPT@work on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Two questions of broadly different types, one a typical broadsheet-style cryptic
> 1) At which crag might recent victor be at home with article and magician's stock-in-trade, I hear, for career disciplinarian?

Please may we have the number of letters for the typical broadsheet-style cryptic?
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to BPT@work:

Sorry - that was an omission, although I'm not sure which number is relevant; 7, as in Kilnsey, the answer to the question - or 10, as in Dominatrix, the answer to the cryptic bit.
johncoxmysteriously - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

OK, then:

Who said of memorial cairns that ‘the abominable practice [of erecting cairns at such spots] can hardly be erected in strong enough terms’, and why was he so concerned about it?

jcm
Gordon Stainforth - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I've got a very vague feeling it might have been Sir John Hunt. but can find no Google reference to it.
johncoxmysteriously - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Nope. Google-proof, I would think.

jcm
John2 - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Is that quote correct? Objected would make more sense than erected.
johncoxmysteriously - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to John2:

No. Thanks.

What I meant to say was, "‘the abominable practice [of erecting cairns at such spots] can hardly be *condemned* in strong enough terms’.

jcm
GeoffRadcliffe - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Someting to do with toilet issues? Lord Cromer?
johncoxmysteriously - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

No!!

jcm
BPT@work on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: A certain member of the Alpine Club?
Ian Parsons - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Messner?
Grahame N - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
WH Murray ??
johncoxmysteriously - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N:

Correct! His objection to them was that he was spread-eagled on the crux of some route or other, when he looked down and saw a small cairn ‘which marked the landing place of an unfortunate climber who had once fallen from my present position. The abominable practice of erecting cairns at such spots can hardly be condemned in strong enough terms.’

I used to read Mountaineering in Scotland once a year when I was young, and this passage always stuck in my mind.

I wonder if history records who the ‘unfortunate climber’ was. Any well-educated Scottish readers out there?

Anyhoo, over to you, GN.

jcm
Grahame N - on 27 Mar 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I havn't read Mountaineering in Scotland for a while, but the tone of the quote was very Murray-esque.

Here is a quick, relatively easy one, fingers on the buzzer:

On which mountaln would you find a cat, a porcupine and a dead man?
Ian Parsons - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N:

Craig-A-Barns?
dominic lee - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N: Would a Shoe maker have anything to do with it ??





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jon on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N:

Maybe Stac Pollaidh?
Grahame N - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
Yes well done, Cat Crawl, Porcipine Wall and Deadman's Groove are all on The Cobbler.
Your turn again.
jon on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N:

Though Stac Pollaidh does have Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, The Irascible Porcupine and Ghost Road!
Ian Parsons - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:

Porcupines are clearly the thing in Scotland, although Cave Crag could only muster a hedgehog!
jon on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Cave Crag is too steep for porcupines. They are much better suited slabby stuff. It's when they are forced to climb steeper rock, or more than VS, that they get irascible.
Ian Parsons - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to jon:

Is there anything more than VS in Scotland? On paper, anyway...
dominic lee - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N: Okay...

Who and what event links the following and which is the odd one out?

A peeping tom's public joy leads to a tap on the shoulder.

A Philly equine's state of arousal.

A wordy game show sets the stage for a clash or antlers and later authors.

A verminous but fruitful Irishman.

A sharp-edged 80's pairing.

Good luck...
John2 - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Should that say clash of antlers rather than clash or antlers?
dominic lee - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to John2: yes sorry, 'clash of antlers'
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
Any takers..? This problem looked like 7b yesterday but on reflection...perhaps an amendment and some beta might help to make things less opaque.
The 'event' involves 3 routes and the 'who' is named obliquely in the first line of the first clue.

1# Now reads..A Peep Show participants public joy leads to a tap on the shoulder....Come on, a recent storm in a Westminster tea cup, not that I'm cracking the whip

3# A popular wordy tv quiz where the loser wins. The key to the stage is contained within the title.

5# Refers to a Pop pairing, sweet and popular in SW19.
Al Evans on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: This ha degenerated from a general knowledge quiz into an intellectual conumdrum competition, can we get back to the quiz with definite one or two word answers please?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: The Berlin Wall?
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to dominic lee) This ha degenerated from a general knowledge quiz into an intellectual conumdrum competition, can we get back to the quiz with definite one or two word answers please?
Sorry Al..Perhaps there should be 2 quiz threads. One general knowledge and quick..And one cryptic ?

puppythedog on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: I'm with Al, I stopped being able to answer even the Climbing Knowledge ones a while ago but this Quiz of Britain format has left me dead in the water.
Ian Parsons - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Hi Dom

Tricky one! Don't know whether any of these are relevant:

- Nadine Dorries, who had the whip withdrawn after appearing on "I'm...etc", was investigated in the course of the expenses scandal. Drop an "e" and we could have a reference to Simon Nadin.

- Lorraine Chase has also been a contestant; I gather that "Chase" is a lowest-score-wins game show, although I have to admit I'd never heard of it.

- One half of the 80s pop duo Dollar has also been on said celebrity thing, though I've no idea what that might have to do with sharp-edged or Wimbledon. (So has Martina Navratilova).

It is my proud boast that virtually all of this came from Google, however wide of the mark it may be!
Neil Foster - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to dominic lee) This ha degenerated from a general knowledge quiz into an intellectual conumdrum competition, can we get back to the quiz with definite one or two word answers please?

Some of us prefer a cryptic quiz, Al. Indeed I would say that far from degenerated, this thread has evolved positively into something much more intriguing.

I would also point out that my last question did have a definitive one word answer - in that case "Lord".

Happy Easter!

Neil

GeoffRadcliffe - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to dominic lee)
>
>
> - Nadine Dorries, who had the whip withdrawn after appearing on "I'm...etc", was investigated in the course of the expenses scandal. Drop an "e" and we could have a reference to Simon Nadin.

I was thinking More of Mitchell from Peep Show and Andrew Mitchell (former Chief Whip) in PlebGate.


> - Lorraine Chase has also been a contestant; I gather that "Chase" is a lowest-score-wins game show, although I have to admit I'd never heard of it.
I was thinking about the current game show Pointless? but failed to find connections.

> - One half of the 80s pop duo Dollar has also been on said celebrity thing, though I've no idea what that might have to do with sharp-edged or Wimbledon. (So has Martina Navratilova).
I am grasping at straws with Eurythmics: Sweet Dreams plus Dave Stewart appearing at Wimbledom. Like you, no idea about Sharp-Edged.

Ian Parsons - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to Al Evans)
> [...]
> Sorry Al..Perhaps there should be 2 quiz threads. One general knowledge and quick..And one cryptic ?

Alternatively, multiple questions - as introduced some time back by Geoff; first to answer any is the winner and sets the next question, leaving enthusiasts/geeks to peck away at what's left. This would keep things moving as the easiest question would probably get answered fairly quickly, and gets round the problem that setters don't always realise how hard/obscure their questions are; it's actually very difficult to divorce yourself completely from the fact that you already know the answer when you're setting a question!
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to dominic lee) The Berlin Wall?

Berlin Wall ? Whats your thread ?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: I only have a few ideas as yet so I don't have enough to justify the fall of the Berlin Wall. I just wanted to check if I was on the right track or am I wasting my time on a blind alley. Probably, barking up the wrong tree again.
ads.ukclimbing.com
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Bravo ! your on the scent with Mitchell.
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: The quiz referred to in the question is seen as highbrow and the host twitters on a bit
GeoffRadcliffe - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons) The quiz referred to in the question is seen as highbrow and the host twitters on a bit

QI?
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to dominic lee)
> [...]
>
> QI? yo!

dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Sorry, should also have said the Berlin Wall is a blind alley.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Thanks. That's a relief!

I should also have added that David Mitchell is also a frequent guest on QI.
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to dominic lee) Thanks. That's a relief!
>
> I should also have added that David Mitchell is also a frequent guest on QI.
Just to clarify. You were on the right track linking David Mitchell to Andrew Mitchell..Nice link to QI but not relevant.

stevieb - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
I think the pop group must be strawberry switchblade,
The Irishman might be Dara O'Briain but not really sure why
Haven't got the first clue about connections
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to stevieb:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> I think the pop group must be strawberry switchblade,
> The Irishman might be Dara O'Briain but not really sure why
> Haven't got the first clue about connections

Very good stevieb. Right duo, wrong Irishman.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: I'm guessing that Paul Mitchell (nee Kirk) is the Irishman in question. Also equine's state of arousal is a reference to bolts.

Didn't Paul Mitchell remove Gary's bolts from Clarion Call?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to dominic lee) I'm guessing that Paul Mitchell (nee Kirk) is the Irishman in question. Also equine's state of arousal is a reference to bolts.
>
> Didn't Paul Mitchell remove Gary's bolts from Clarion Call?
I should add a Hornet's nest was stirred up (full of vermin)?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
A Philly equine's state of arousal.
Philadelphia was by Gary who likes his bolts. A bit thin I know.
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Sorry Geoff, interesting but your wrongly conflating clues.
Remember i'm talking about 3 routes. And for a bit of clarity.
clues #1 & #2 refer to one route.
clue #3 refers to one route
clues #4 & #5 to one route
All three routes are linked by the FA and also in another way.

Great thinking though Geoff...
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: The Philadelphian I have is mind is a bit more punchy.
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee: sorry, should have said 'in mind'
Grahame N - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe) The Philadelphian I have is mind is a bit more punchy.

Rocky Balboa then.
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to Grahame N: yes! So, think about what links Rocky to Andrew Mitchell's (alleged?) outburst?
dominic lee - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
More clues ? Time to call time ?
Ian Parsons - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Hi Dom

I suspect that this one has reached the end of its natural span; probably best to put it out of its misery - and us, as well! (Unless, of course, anybody has a particularly vehement objection?)
Mark Collins - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to Grahame N) yes! So, think about what links Rocky to Andrew Mitchell's (alleged?) outburst?

Pebbles? At last I have felt able to make a potential contribution, albeit to a minor portion of the answer.
dominic lee - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons.
Ok. Solution to follow.. To get the ball rolling again...

What madness links Swindale to Curbar.
john arran - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

One step beyond? But why madness?
Glenn Sutcliffe - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran: the band madness had a song called one step beyond
dominic lee - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Glenn Sutcliffe: Indeed.. Over to you John.
john arran - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Thanks Glenn, I'd missed that link.

Ok, an overseas one hopefully not googlable.

Back in the 80s a famous British mountaineer climbed a rock route up a virgin peak off the Baltoro glacier by way of acclimatisation before a high peak. The hard aid ascent remains (to my knowledge but almost certainly) the only time the prominent rock peak has ever been climbed. Name the climber and the peak.
Fredt on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:

Doug Scott, Lab Sang Spire?
john arran - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Fredt:

More usually Lobsang or Lob Sang but plenty good enough for me.
Over to you.
Fredt on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:

Who dived 4406 feet into the River Nevis to rescue his companion?
Ramblin dave - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Fredt:
:-)

I know that one for once, but I can't think of a good question so I'll leave it for someone else...
Ian Parsons - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

Go on, Dave - you know you want to!
Ramblin dave - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Okay. I'll have a think.

(Assuming I'm not mistaken and it was Joe Brown...)
Fredt on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons)
> Okay. I'll have a think.
>
> (Assuming I'm not mistaken and it was Joe Brown...)

Correct, - ...we wait with bated breath...
Ramblin dave - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Fredt:
Okay.

What links:
The File
Commander Energy
Solid Air
Sea Mist
The Spider
One Step in the Clouds
among others...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Fredt:
> (In reply to john arran)
>
> Who dived 4406 feet into the River Nevis to rescue his companion?

I may be being a bit thick here but can someone explain the answer of Joe Brown.
dominic lee - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: So, the solution......

Clue 1 Peep Show participant - Mitchell - climbers Tony and Paul etc ? - but also a newsworthy ex-chief whip Andrew Mitchell, who allegedly called Downing Street policemen 'plebs' - plebs - the public - joy - delight? - public joy or Pleb's Delight, an old aid route, humorously named on Ilam Rock above a picnic spot in Dovedale.

'A tap on the shoulder' refers to Mitchell's brush with the law - tap is the clue as to the 'who' - another term for tap is faucet....

Clue 2. Phily equine state of arousal - equine - horse, state of arousal - sexual? - male horse? - stallion? - Phily - Philidelphian stallion? - Rocky Balboa, The Italian Stallion. State of arousal - fight or flight? - Eye of the Tiger (Rocky 3) Fawcett's free solution to the aid route Pleb's Delight.


Clue 3 Wordy quiz show - QI - can be read as chi (the life force). Chi or Cheedale/Cheetor? Clash of antlers - dominant stag being challenged by young pretender, Fawcett/ Moffatt ? Ron climbed Tequila Mockingbird, a play on Harper Lee's classic and thinly veiled reference to Moffatt's challenge. Clash of authors? - Jean-Pierre Bouvier later climbed Tequila in his opinion in better style, provocatively claiming ownership and proposing the new name Gandalf le Magician - Harper Lee Vs Tolkien.


Clue 4. A verminous but fruitful Irishman? Verminous - rat, Irishman, Bob Geldof, founder of The Boomtown Rats - fruitful? - several children with Paula Yates - one called......Peaches.

Clue 5. Sharp edged? - blade - knife. Sweet and popular in SW19? - strawberries ? Pop-pairing - Strawberry Switchblade......Strawberries? Fawcett's solution to the last great problem on the Vector headwall, commonly known as Peaches at the time. Moffatt repeated the route in minimally better style and provocatively suggested he might have the right to rename it Peaches.

So, the who is Fawcett and the event in common is the naming and renaming of routes with the statement of ownership it communicates.


GeoffRadcliffe - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: Cover photos?
Ramblin dave - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Specifically...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Amazing! I had thought of Fawcett for tap as I believe Pete Livesey use to call him that but I had forgotten about Pleb's Delight. Howewever, I would never have got clue 3,4 or 5 or the links. So thanks for putting me out of my misery.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: Guidebooks. Probably Rockfax?
Ramblin dave - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Yep!

Over to you.
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Ian Parsons - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Excellent, Dom; but way too cerebral for the rest of us. I think the closest I got was a vague recollection of one of Livesey's eminently amusing articles - possibly the Astroman one - wherein he confesses to trying to wind up the definitively good-natured Ron by calling him "Tap"!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: Okay but before I do. How did Joe Brown dive 4406 feet into the River Nevis to rescue his companion? Some sky diving reference?
Ian Parsons - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hi Geoff

I don't possess a copy of The Hard Years, but was there not some bit of over-imaginative press reporting following some incident on The Ben, or in a river soon thereafter?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to dominic lee)
>
> the Astroman one - wherein he confesses to trying to wind up the definitively good-natured Ron by calling him "Tap"!

That's the route where Ron exploded out of the Harding Slot vomitting! Oops another possible question bites the dust... :)
Ramblin dave - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Having dug my copy out, yes... on one of his trips to Scotland when he was young, his mate got hurt while glissading off the Ben, then fell over while crossing the river on the way out and Joe waded in to rescue him. In the great tradition of such things, this got slightly misreported by the local paper.
Ian Parsons - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

We got there - the "C" in UKC obviously stands for "Committee"!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: Ah yes I have it now page 41. Thanks.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

First to answer either of the following:

Which well-known climber said and what was the route?
"If you can take in, just a little faster than the speed at which I'm seconding, it would be appreciated".

And for those who like slightly cryptic clues?
Sandbagger is worried by initials that don't mean brown sauce.
To what am I referring?
John2 - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Pete Minks?
Glenn Sutcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Mr Bonnington, seconding Livesey on Footless Crow, Lakeland Rock TV series?
dominic lee - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
>
>
> And for those who like slightly cryptic clues?
> Sandbagger is worried by initials that don't mean brown sauce.
> To what am I referring?

Could this refer to Higher Purchase at Eridge Green Rocks ? A banned problem at a popular southern sandstone bouldering venue..?

999thAndy on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Sauce = HP = Hank Pasquill, at Almscliffe, spotted by Al Manson?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Sauce = HP = Hank Pasquill, at Almscliffe, spotted by Al Manson?

Yes. Over to you Andy.

Extra kudos to anyone who solves the other question (but no baton).
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to 999thAndy)
> [...]
>
> Yes. Over to you Andy.
>
> Extra kudos to anyone who solves the other question (but no baton).

I should add the article was All Our Yesterdays by Al Manson from a LUMC journal. It described afficionados of Almscliff who knew the problems so well as they did them most days. They laughed at visitors struggling on problems they could show off on. However, they were worried that the Lancastrian Hank Pasquill would visit and cruise everything and one day they spotted his initials on a rucksack...

999thAndy on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Who got the sack* from the Cooperative Holidays Association in Newlands Vale Guest House for taking clients climbing?


*Presumably later used for clothing
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: The Neglected Climber: Millican Dalton?
999thAndy on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Well done Geoff. Back to you.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to 999thAndy: I just happened to have the relevant CCJ to hand. A great source of material...

As nobody got this one (and I don't immediately have another good question ready), I thought I'd ask it (again) as the next quiz question.

Which well-known climber said and what was the route?
"If you can take in, just a little faster than the speed at which I'm seconding, it would be appreciated".
Gordon Stainforth - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Wild guess. Whillans seconding Brown on Cemetery Gates on TV?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Nope. Sorry Gordon.
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Ian Parsons - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Sounds like the sort of thing Mac might have said in a "playing to the gallery" sort of way; Spider's Web, perhaps, or South Face route on Hoy?
Glenn Sutcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
I always thought this was Bonnington following Livesey on Footless crow, but it seems not
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to Glenn Sutcliffe:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> I always thought this was Bonnington following Livesey on Footless crow, but it seems not

I remember that. Very amusing. Pete waves a five pound note from the top taunting CB. However that is not it nor was it Mac.
wilkie14c - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Wild guess. Whillans seconding Brown on Cemetery Gates on TV?

Whillans seconding Bonnigton on Dove Crag in Lakeland rock
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to blanchie14c: Nope, but I can see why you might think that about a ruptured duck!
Al Evans on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to Glenn Sutcliffe: Me seconding Tom Proctor on a variety of things :-)
Al Evans on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to Al Evans: Or I could have been seconding Ron Fawcett :-)
Tom V - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Bill Peascod, Eagle Front?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to Tom V: Nope.

The actual quote is recorded somewhere(!)
MikeTS - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

How about a hint. Was it on a TV climbing show?
dominic lee - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Anything to do with a rising tide...?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to MikeTS: Nope. It is recorded in writing.
MikeTS - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

A biography or a guidebook?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to MikeTS) Nope. It is recorded in writing... in a book which I am sure many (if not most) active British climbers would have on their bookshelf or somewhere else(!).

MikeTS - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Freedom of the Hills? Complete Playmates of the Month?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: The route in question is said to make the Crimson Cringe look easy!
MikeTS - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Yosemite?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

>
> Which well-known climber said and what was the route?
> "If you can take in, just a little faster than the speed at which I'm seconding, it would be appreciated".

A cryptic clue as I know some of you love them:
Batman has one!
999thAndy on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Robin Smith? No idea what route though
kneal - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
>
> Which well-known climber said and what was the route?
> "If you can take in, just a little faster than the speed at which I'm seconding, it would be appreciated".

Paul Williams, Atomic Hot Rod ?
wilkie14c - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)

> Batman has one!

a slightly camp sidekick?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to kneal: We have a winner!

The exact reference:
Atomic Hot Rod R Fawcett, P Williams
One of the first three Welsh routes to be given a technical grade of 7a - it still warrants a 6b rating. 'Ron landed on top after an almighty struggle with the roof, involving a long heel-hook out left, all his gear had dropped out save for a MOAC under the roof, and a Friend, which had "walked". He lay on the top gasping for breath. "That's the hardest crack I've done, makes Crimson Cringe look easy", he said. Now I'd heard of Crimson Cringe, and knew that it was 5.12. My mouth suddenly went dry and my hands started sweating - fear; an adrenaline-fix for the climbing junkie. "If you can take in, just a little faster than the speed at which I'm seconding, it would be appreciated".' (P Williams)

MikeTS - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

from Rock Climbing in Snowdonia?
kneal - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Who pioneered the "saltw*ter cure" for a hangover?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to kneal:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> Who pioneered the "saltw*ter cure" for a hangover?

I have just read that. But I will keep quiet...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to MikeTS: Llanberis guidebook.
kneal - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to kneal:
> Who pioneered the "saltw*ter cure" for a hangover?

Oh dear not even any guesses on this one. I'm away now for the rest of the day - Geoff you obviously know the answer to this so perhaps you could adjudicate in my absense?

The word pioneer wasn't used by accident ...

GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to kneal:
> (In reply to kneal)
> [...]
>
> Oh dear not even any guesses on this one. I'm away now for the rest of the day - Geoff you obviously know the answer to this so perhaps you could adjudicate in my absense?

Okay.
>
> The word pioneer wasn't used by accident ...

GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to kneal:
> (In reply to kneal)
> [...]
>
> Oh dear not even any guesses on this one. I'm away now for the rest of the day - Geoff you obviously know the answer to this so perhaps you could adjudicate in my absense?
>
> The word pioneer wasn't used by accident ...

To prevent lucky guesses. In addtion, the name of a route or cliff will confirm you know the answer.
dominic lee - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
a guess...Tom Patey.
Darron - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to kneal:

Menlove Edwards was fond of a dip in the briney?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee: nope but I can see why you suggested him.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 03 Apr 2013
In reply to Darron:
> (In reply to kneal)
>
> Menlove Edwards was fond of a dip in the briney?

Maybe but it's not him.

Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Evening Geoff

No idea whether this is the first outing of the term, but it's the title of the account in Mirrors... wherein Pat OBE describes his first ascent of the direct start to Escapist, on Carn Gowla, with Keith Darbyshire.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Evening Geoff
>
> No idea whether this is the first outing of the term, but it's the title of the account in Mirrors... wherein Pat OBE describes his first ascent of the direct start to Escapist, on Carn Gowla, with Keith Darbyshire.

Well done Ian.

Yes his cure for a hangover is to do a big route on Carn Gowla and get thoroughly soaked.

Over to you.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons)
> [...]
>
Oh and extra points for the route name. Which can be deduced using the guidebook but which is not explicitly stated in the article.
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Ok; I have a two-question option, but currently only time to post one! Herewith:

What protective item might one employ in the event of fierce inclemency at Woodstock, and how do they connect?

I'll post the other question shortly if this is still running.
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

> but currently only time to post one

Busy relocating mice, Ian?
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

No, Jon; visitors of a rather less murine variety!
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
Here's part 2:

It's common knowledge that the righthand side of the West Face of the Petit Dru has been transformed over the last couple of decades by two or three massive rockfalls and a few smaller ones. This has resulted, effectively, in the total loss of several routes from the main part of the face above the lower tier and extending to its righthand edge. (The lower tier itself is crossed right-to-left by the first section of the 1952 Magnone Route; this is possibly still climbable but has now been largely eclipsed by its apparently more popular direct version.)

- How many routes have been lost?
- Name them. (In the case of possible confusion with an intact route further left, name the first ascensionists; indeed that is how some routes are known anyway.)

Disregard any new or partially new routes that may have been added between or since the rockfalls and possibly followed the approximate lines of previous, now collapsed routes.

First to answer this or part 1 wins the chance to hover expectantly around their computer awaiting a correct reply to their own question; the runner-up can bask in the relief of not having to.
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jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Presumably everything between the American Direct (Hemming/Robbins) and The Bonatti Pillar (deceased). I would assume that Passage Cardiaque is still intact. So here's a start, maybe...

Classic West Face
Strapontins du Paradis (wherever that goes).
Direct American (Harlin/Robbins).
Directissime Française (Bruel/Profit, etc).
Thomas Gross.
Destivelle.
Bonatti.
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

And was there a route called Absolu?
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

Well, you've got them all plus one spare - which makes you the winner! Any idea which is the surplus one?
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

No, does that make me the loser? Unless you thought that by mentioning the American Direct, I was including that - which I wasn't.
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

Now I'm confused! I assumed that you were including the American Direct(issima) (Harlin/Robbins) - as distinct from the other American Direct (Hemming/Robbins). Perhaps a final list would make things clear. But you have, at some point, named all of them - so you can't wriggle out of your obligations that easily!
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Well I'm including the Direct American Harlin/Robbins which has fallen down, but not the American Direct Hemming/Robbins, which hasn't. So...

Classic West Face
Strapontins du Paradis (wherever that goes).
Direct American (Harlin/Robbins).
Directissime Française (Bruel/Profit, etc).
Absolu (wherever that is).
Thomas Gross.
Destivelle.
Bonatti.
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

That'll do! The final six are what I was after. Not sure whether the first bit of the Classic is still climbable in some form, or has that gone as well? (Still, though, leaving its upper section accessible via the American Direct Start.) Les Strapontins du Paradis is close to said American Direct Start (Hemming/Robbins) and finishes/merges at the Bloc Coincé - thus avoiding the destruction further right.

Over to you.
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

OK, which UKCer has made the first ascent of a number of routes in the UK, to which he gave the same name? What is the route name and where are they?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Ok; I have a two-question option, but currently only time to post one! Herewith:
>
> What protective item might one employ in the event of fierce inclemency at Woodstock, and how do they connect?
>

Woodstock festival was also known as The Aquarian Exposition

Shield on South west face of El Cap (A3)
Aquarian on South west face of El Cap (A3)

It's a link at least.

Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

I never knew that - although I suppose Hair comes from about that time. Certainly a link, but in this case the wrong tree to be barking up. (I nearly said "sniffing", but that's trouser legs!) It would be fairly easy to extract a couple of clues out of one of the routes, but it's probably a bit early at this stage.

Are you, Jon and I the only participants today?
Hippo100 - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to cfer:

I will add to that who was the warden?
pasbury on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
>
> Are you, Jon and I the only participants today?

No - I'm lurking but too thick to answer anything. And also at work so estranged from my guidebooks.

Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to pasbury:

Excellent - the more the merrier; and Hippo as well. If clues become necessary with the Woodstock thing I'll leave it until most people are probably back home.
craig h - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

I'm lurking too, only just seen this entertaining thread :-)
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to craig h:

Ah! Mr Biceps. Pull up a chair.
MikeTS - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to craig h:

I'm in and out. But not having much luck with the questions. Less UK stuff would help me!
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

I fear that my question may have got hidden in the cryptic aftermath... so here it is again:

Which UKCer has made the first ascent of a number of routes in the UK, to which he gave the same name? What is the route name and where are they?

I might add that the name does not contain the name of the first ascensionist ie 'Brown's Crack' or something like that.
Ramblin dave - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:
Presumably Chris Craggs and "Probably Done Before" doesn't count because he's not really claiming the first ascent.

(Also, the only one of those I know is at Stanage, although I'd guess that there are others around the place...)
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

You presume correctly, it doesn't count.
john arran - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

I have a vague recollection that it was from the 80s and the routes were called 'Puss' or something similar, but I can't remember who was responsible. Am I warm?
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jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:

Actually since I asked the question, Ian has suggested that to me. No, it's not Stevie's routes Pus. I did, probably unsuccessfully give a sort of clue with my last but one post.
In reply to jon:

R.A.T.B.?



Chris

;-)
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs:

What's that?
In reply to jon:

Rock around the Block - Higgar Tor and Trevallen - 1st ascents CC & CB.



Chris

;-)
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Chris Craggs:

No Chris. One of the routes is in Pembroke, though.
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

... and another's in Derbyshire.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon: Piggy's crack?
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Ha, yes Geoff. And the first ascentionist and whereabouts of the routes?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon: Al Evans
New Mills Torrs and St Govans
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

That's right. I think there may be more but I'm not sure. I was hoping Al was going to pop up. I've a feeling he once said that every crag should have a Piggy's Crack.

Your turn.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> That's right. I think there may be more but I'm not sure. I was hoping Al was going to pop up. I've a feeling he once said that every crag should have a Piggy's Crack.
>
Yes Al should have solved that one!

I had all but given up on yours. It was the Pembroke clue that inspired me to continue.

Still cannot get Ian's cryptic one though. I thought I had it with the El Capitan connection. Damm! I think another clue for that one may be needed soon!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon: Time for an easy one!

Who had to give us a ring when he finished his climb and why?
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

This isn't anything to do with a certain tick in Chee Dale is it?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> This isn't anything to do with a certain tick in Chee Dale is it?

I would be interested in your explanation - sounds more interesting than my answer... But that isn't it.
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hmmm, I'd rather not as I don't know how true the tale is. Let's just say it involves a tick scratched on a rock at the bottom of a Cornice route.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Hmmm, I'd rather not as I don't know how true the tale is. Let's just say it involves a tick scratched on a rock at the bottom of a Cornice route.

I think I might know the story...but let's not go there(!)

dominic lee - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
A.P. Chimes of freedom....?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> A.P. Chimes of freedom....?

I was beginning to think it was just Jon and I. Welcome back Dom. However that isn't it.

GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Interesting. Having thought this would have been easy, I would have bet that this one would have been over in under 4 minutes.
jon on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Stoney?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Stoney?

If you are thinking of 4 minute tiler. That's not it.
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

> Still cannot get Ian's cryptic one though. I thought I had it with the El Capitan connection. Damm! I think another clue for that one may be needed soon!

I recall bailing from very low down on Aquarian in 1980 - not so much from fierce inclemency as debilitating clemency; we fried.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> [...]
>
> I recall bailing from very low down on Aquarian in 1980 - not so much from fierce inclemency as debilitating clemency; we fried.

Aha. There you are. I'll trade you. A hint on your Woodstock one (unless there was a hidden one in the above), for a hint on the latest question...
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hi Geoff

I was once responsible for a route called ET in that quarry between Whatstandwell and Cromford that's been largely filled in; it was next to Gary's "Just Like Nothing On Earth". I'm sure that's not it, and likewise Oedipus!
Ian Parsons - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

But back to Woodstock. Our Aquarian experience would have been completely opposite to that of a certain cliff-dweller, Patagucci-style clothing designer and High Tor degree-thief in the course of his ascent a few years earlier.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Hi Geoff
>
> I was once responsible for a route called ET in that quarry between Whatstandwell and Cromford that's been largely filled in; it was next to Gary's "Just Like Nothing On Earth". I'm sure that's not it, and likewise Oedipus!

You're right. That's not it. I did visit Birchwood Quarry after it had been filled in. However the vist was very brief. Good thought though.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: My quiz question needs a more literal interpretation. Time was of the essence.
Al Evans on 05 Apr 2013
Al Evans on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: I suppose 'Oedipus phone your mother ' is too obvious.
Al Evans on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons)
> [...]
>
> You're right. That's not it. I did visit Birchwood Quarry after it had been filled in. However the vist was very brief. Good thought though.

Birchwood Crack was once a 'must' for the Peak off width specialsts, sad it got filled in in , I have good memories of Bob Nunns stereo on his new mini blasting out Hey Jude, the Beatles latest, as I climbed it.
Al Evans on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> That's right. I think there may be more but I'm not sure. I was hoping Al was going to pop up. I've a feeling he once said that every crag should have a Piggy's Crack.
>
> Your turn.

There is another, Brian Croppers 'Three Little Piggies' at Cows Mouth Quarry was named after Piggy had just produced them as offspring.
dominic lee - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Thought it might have something cryptic to do with Ring Ousals..but then maybe more literal but still Peakcentric...Animal, 2nd? ascent of Rays Roof..?
john arran - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Best man at your wedding?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Nobody has been close yet.

Who had to give us a ring when he finished his climb and why?

I'll give another clue.
It was televised and can still be seen on YouTube.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: So it's Yvon Chouinard - Keen falconer, founder of Patagonia, who made pitons, hexcentrics, stoppers as well as a clothing range (all items of protection).

The High Tor reference is Bastille. I am struggling a little bit to link this at the moment. The fierce inclemency must mean wet or very cold. Hurricane Katrina blew over Woodstock but that may be an irrelevance.

Fred Beckey one of his climbing partners did the FA of Bastille Buttress (again probably irrelevant).

Choiunard climbed North American Wall with Frost (fierce inclemency?). Hmmm
Also with Royal Robbins who also has a range of clothing and Chuck Pratt.

Hmmm. Still missing a few pieces...
Ian Parsons - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hi Geoff

The answer you're looking for is two route names with a close link between them. They're nowhere near Yosemite. One of the El Cap routes you mentioned simply happened to be a convenient platform on which to park a couple of clues pointing towards one of the route names you're after; solving them isn't a prerequisite for ultimate success, but I thought that figuring out who the cliff-dwelling degree thief is might prove entertaining for somebody like yourself! (Not Chouinard, by the way, but warm otherwise.) By coincidence the other EL Cap route could be a more direct clue to the other route name.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Interesting! Lots of blind alleys and coincidences!

I have this picture in my head of Westbay, Bridwell and Long from Yosemite climber looking like refugees from Woodstock. Coincidentally, Jim Bridwell did the first ascent of Aquarian Wall and did design some protection such as bird beaks and his name is Bri-dwell.

Bastille has to be right as Mike Graham tried to rename it to Basteal.

Cliff dweller? Hmmm Lammergeyer? clutching at straws here a bit...

Would it be too much to ask if the routes concerned are in the UK?

BTW how you doing with my latest question?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Ahhh. Mike Graham tried to rename Bastille to Basteal but only climbed the bottom section. Rain stopped play. He did a solo ascent of Aquarian Wall in shich he spent several days in a hammock he called the 'cliff dwelling' sheltering from the rain. Mike belonged to the stone masters - a hippie group (Woodstock connection?).

He also did only the first pitch of Nectar at Stanage.

Possible connection. Unfinished routes? or Rain.

As to the original question. The protective item is a single point attachment hammock designed by Mike Graham and known as the cliff dwelling.

How am i doing?
MikeTS - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> Mike belonged to the stone masters - a hippie group (Woodstock connection?).
>
>

The Stone Masters weren't really hippies. They had long hair and did dope. But (I think it's in Steve Roper's Camp 4) they had terrible sex lives.
MikeTS - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Also they were focused - very un-hippie like quality
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GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to MikeTS:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Also they were focused - very un-hippie like quality

You are right. I should have phrased that as dope smoking group with long hair. The Woodstock connection may just have been the amount of rain.
john arran - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Are you referring to Kenton on Everest?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran: Nope.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: If Bastille was the first route. Was Lyme Cryme the linked route? Bastille is a fortress. Lyme Cryme free version of Fortess Wall. Or is it Hot Gossip?
The link is aid routes freed but not without some controversy!
Al Evans on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to Neil Foster)
>
> I always thought the Hush Puppies connection with Our Father related to Tom Proctor soloing it this way as a party piece.

And it wasn't an urban myth, it was fact!
Al Evans on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons) If Bastille was the first route. Was Lyme Cryme the linked route? Bastille is a fortress. Lyme Cryme free version of Fortess Wall. Or is it Hot Gossip?
> The link is aid routes freed but not without some controversy!

Anyway that's all crap, Jack Street led Fortress Wall almost free with me as his second way before SB put the bolt in and called it Lyme Cryme.
Ian Parsons - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

You're getting warmer, Geoff. Mike Graham is indeed the cliff-dweller, after the "Cliff Dwelling"; as far as I recall these were the first commercially produced portaledges. As to the clothing - does the brand name "Gramicci" ring any bells? The point about the two Aquarian examples was to hint at the relevance of weather - which you seem to have now got; that clue is the extent of Graham's part in the puzzle, so the protective item is not a cliff dwelling. Don't fixate too much on Woodstock; at first I was going to cite Glastonbury but thought that might be too obvious - probably not, in fact, but certainly more so. The routes are in the UK.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Gramicci was the affectionate nick name given to climber Mike Graham in early 1980’s and the clothing range. Had to look that up.

Wellingtons? Wellington crack at Ilkley? Didn't part of it get affected by rockfall?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> [...]
>
> Anyway that's all crap, Jack Street led Fortress Wall almost free with me as his second way before SB put the bolt in and called it Lyme Cryme.

Nice to see you are still with us Al. :)
GeoffRadcliffe - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons) Gramicci was the affectionate nick name given to climber Mike Graham in early 1980’s and the clothing range. Had to look that up.
>
> Wellingtons? Wellington crack at Ilkley? Didn't part of it get affected by rockfall?

Just looked in the guidebook:
The capstone to Wellington Crack was removed by the council.
Also Wellington Chimney was severely affected by the council for stabilisation work.

The link is Wellington routes that the council have changed.
Ian Parsons - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> [...]
>
> Just looked in the guidebook:
> The capstone to Wellington Crack was removed by the council.
> Also Wellington Chimney was severely affected by the council for stabilisation work.
>
> The link is Wellington routes that the council have changed.

Nope!
Ian Parsons - on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

Hi Al

That's interesting. Did you and Jack actually do what is now Lyme Cryme pitch one, and was originally (I think) the Direct Start to Fortress Wall? (Described in the 1970 guide as the first pitch of the extended version of the A3 Malfeasant which itself was originally just an upper half route climbing what is now the second pitch of Brompton's Cocktail.) Or did you climb the original Fortress Wall line, ie what is now pitch one of Hot Gossip to the cave, followed by the initial traverse of Delicatessen, then finishing up the long crack now taken by the second pitch of Lyme Cryme?
jon on 05 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Well Ian, a classic. I wouldn't be surprised if Al has comprehensively failed to follow that. I certainly have!
Ian Parsons - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

Sorry! I probably managed to make an already slightly complicated scenario rather more so. It's not helped by the fact that Malfeasant is mentioned in the most recent definitive guide (1987) as having been superceded by the first pitch of Lyme Cryme, which in fact is nowhere near it!

Doug Scott's "Climbs on Derwent Valley Limestone" was published in about 1965; as such it pre-dates Malfeasant (1969) and was, I would guess, the main source of written information available to Al and Jack. It describes two routes within the area in question:

- Fortress Wall, A2; Biven/Peck, 1957. This followed the line to which I referred above, ie (p1) lower groove of Hot Gossip to Castellan cave, (p2) Delicatessen traverse to Lyme Cryme belay, (p3) second pitch of Lyme Cryme.

- Fortress Wall Direct, A2 (hard); Nunn/Woolcock, 1964. This climbed the groove and bulge left of Bastion Wall/Robert Brown (about 13 pegs and 3 bolts) to the belay at the end of Fortress Wall pitch 2 - ie what is now the first pitch of Lyme Cryme.

Later guides and other sources contain references to the conversion of Fortress Wall to a predominantly free climb, and specifically to Al and Jack in this context; but there appears to be no mention of similar activity on Fortess Wall Direct up until Lyme Cryme saw the light of day. And of course it's on FWD/Lyme Cryme p1 that the controversial bolt was placed. (I assume the earlier aid bolts had disappeared, or were worthless.) So I was simply trying to establish whether in fact there was a bit of a gap in the historical record and that Al and Jack had in fact largely free-climbed the Direct version.
jon on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Aaaaarrrggghh! No more...
Ian Parsons - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

Ok - I realise that's a drastic over-simplification; give me a while and I'll come back in greater depth with more detail.
Al Evans on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to Al Evans)
>
> Hi Al
>
> That's interesting. Did you and Jack actually do what is now Lyme Cryme pitch one, and was originally (I think) the Direct Start to Fortress Wall? (Described in the 1970 guide as the first pitch of the extended version of the A3 Malfeasant which itself was originally just an upper half route climbing what is now the second pitch of Brompton's Cocktail.) Or did you climb the original Fortress Wall line, ie what is now pitch one of Hot Gossip to the cave, followed by the initial traverse of Delicatessen, then finishing up the long crack now taken by the second pitch of Lyme Cryme?

Jesus, I can't remember, I,had a hangover, though I doubt if it had anything to do with Delicattesan, Jack would have known that, I think it's much more likely that it was based on Doug Scotts guide to Fortress Wall. I've never done Lyme Cryme so all my speculation is just that :-)
Ian Parsons - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> Jesus, I can't remember,

Yes, Al - tell me about it! I used to think that my memory was infallible - which, I have to say, it generally was - right up until the time when it started to become clear that that was no longer the case; only recently it took me several tries to remember that I'd even climbed at a particular crag, and not that long ago either.

In the grand scale of things all this is largely irrelevant, although the historical record is, of course, still of interest. Probably the clincher would be if you recall going via the Castellan cave; if so you must have done the original route, including the bit traversing right out of the cave that is also now the start of Delicatessen - but if not you must have been elsewhere and presumably on the direct version, as at the time nothing else existed that would have landed you at the start of the upper crack pitch.

The Rocksport reference to your and Jack's ascent is in the Dec69/Jan70 edition; it appears, however, to be not so much reporting your ascent as the fact that you hadn't thought it worth recording, while a subsequent team who used more aid than you and Jack were quick to get in with a "free" claim. So your ascent was presumably a while beforehand rather than very recent news. Jack and Drummond completed Delicatessen in October 1968, after Jackson and Atkinson had earlier started the process; is it possible that you and Jack had actually done Fortress Wall before this?

Incidently, your Birchwood Quarry recollection prompted a vaguely amusing one of my own. Jim Fotheringham and I headed north from the Birmingham area one day, Jim full of enthusiasm - as was his wont - for, in this instance, some stunning and classic 80ft crack in a quarry south of Matlock that he'd heard about; and was indeed in the old Chatsworth guide. We duly arrived and, book in hand, Jim started to figure out what was what. A bit of head-scratching ensued, followed by the realisation that the rather average looking 30 or 40 foot crack that we were gazing at seemed to fit the description of the last bit of our intended target for the day remarkably well!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Rock Umbrella in the Nook a free version of the Storm (fierce inclemency).

Umbrella would be useful at a Rock concert.
Al Evans on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: I think we did start from the Castellan Cave, but I'll ask Jack who no doubt remembers it better than I do
Al
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Ian Parsons - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

I thought you'd get there in the end! Plus, of course, all the detail about Moffatt's free version of The Storm using some holds a bit further right, so that when Dan Lee freed the exact line shortly afterwards he had to come up with a new name - Rock Umbrella - as the original was now relocated but still taken! And of course the pun potential in that a rock umbrella might be the type thought particularly appropriate for deployment at a rock festival.

Reminds me of a Matt cartoon during one particularly damp event. Group of hippies in a circle, one offering an umbrella to his neighbour: "Wow, man - pass this round!"

Your turn. Oh, and it's not MacLeod/Emmett post Strone route, is it? If it is somebody else will have to provide the full answer as to why.
Ian Parsons - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

Excellent. See if he remembers whether you approached up the original first pitch, now used to start Hot Gossip. (The first few feet are actually a bit different, but they're essentially two slightly different versions of the same pitch.)
GeoffRadcliffe - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Reminds me of a Matt cartoon during one particularly damp event. Group of hippies in a circle, one offering an umbrella to his neighbour: "Wow, man - pass this round!"
Ho ho very good!

>
> Your turn. Oh, and it's not MacLeod/Emmett post Strone route, is it? If it is somebody else will have to provide the full answer as to why.
Nope. I wonder if I should call time on this one by this evening and post another?

Ian, you have led me a merry dance! I had thought of Rock Umbrella ages ago but the penny hadn't dropped as to why (it's obvious now). I then got distracted by your other clues...

One for you Ian but anyone can join in (and please do if you like puzzles):
Who was caught speeding down the M1 but got away with it and then found himself at the centre of a Cimmerian journey giving rise to a cataclysmic event?



Ian Parsons - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

> Ian, you have led me a merry dance! I had thought of Rock Umbrella ages ago but the penny hadn't dropped as to why (it's obvious now). I then got distracted by your other clues...

I should point out, in my own defence, that it was you who introduced the whole El Cap/Yosemite climbers thing - I merely ran with it for a bit! (Although I suppose Woodstock helped to steer you that way.) You seemed to sniff out Mike Graham pretty quick, although he was ultimately one of the distractions.

Everyone feel free to pitch in with Geoff's last offering; having a question to myself would, I think, be a bit of an indulgence.
MikeTS - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

A Cimmerian journey is Conan the Librarian?

which would be Pritchard and Dawes?
MikeTS - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to MikeTS:

no Johnny Dawes and Simon Donahue?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to MikeTS: Nope.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to jon) Time for an easy one!
>
> Who had to give us a ring when he finished his climb and why?

Is it time to give the answer to this yet?
- If so, I can set another question.
dominic lee - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
M1...Worlds End... High Tor Gully...Moran....??
Ian Parsons - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Bit of a long shot, Geoff, and a total guess. Was someday heading overseas from Sheffield in search of sunnier climes/climbs, got stopped for speeding on the M1 but was let off, and was then stuck during some dramatic event in the Channel Tunnel? Rather rolls the last two elements into one, but it's a start. (Even if it's a completely wrong one.)
Ian Parsons - on 06 Apr 2013
Or the one in the Mt Blanc tunnel.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:

No sorry wrong on all counts.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee: I'd love to know that story ... but it's not the one I am referring to.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 06 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Still no takers on:
Who had to give us a ring when he finished his climb and why?

Anyone object if I post the answer Sunday lunch time?
Al Evans on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> [...]
>
> Is it time to give the answer to this yet?
> - If so, I can set another question.

Please give us the answer, I can't wait to see how nebulous this one is.
Al Evans on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Not to say I'm not enjoying them, it's just that my brain doesn't do the right kind of joined up thinking to guess any right (I missed the one about me and Piggys Crack or I might have got that one :-)
john arran - on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Last guess: Patxi
GeoffRadcliffe - on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran: Nope.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> Who was caught speeding down the M1 but got away with it and then found himself at the centre of a Cimmerian journey giving rise to a cataclysmic event?

I should add that the first part of the question refers to something that may not be widely known. However, the remainder of the question sheds some light on a route name by the person in question.
Al Evans on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Please can we get back to some questions that people can understand even if they can't answer them?
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jcw on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Is the ring one that goes on a finger?
dominic lee - on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: I knew it was in there somewhere.. Moffat aided by Chrissy Dawn on the tv show You Bet climbing a 60 foot roof and ringing a bell at its end...?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe) I knew it was in there somewhere.. Moffat aided by Chrissy Dawn on the tv show You Bet climbing a 60 foot roof and ringing a bell at its end...?

Just in time Dominic! I had given several clues but obviously it rang a bell with you.

A reminder

Who had to give us a ring when he finished his climb and why?

Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7zY8SugOAY
Enjoy.

The question wasn't really cryptic at all.

Congratulations and over to you.

Note I have a cryptic thread going at the moment.
dominic lee - on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Just before the bell....memory well and truly dug over...Back in a bit.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> [...]
>
> Please give us the answer, I can't wait to see how nebulous this one is.

Hi Al. Hope you enjoyed the video answer and that it wasn't too nebulous for you. I know the question had the appearance of being cryptic but it did have a literal interpretation.

dominic lee - on 07 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Hi Geoff. Still reflecting on your last offering...In the meantime here's a quickie...
What exigency unites Paul Williams, James Pearson and Keith Sharples.
dominic lee - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> Hi Geoff. Still reflecting on your last offering...In the meantime here's a quickie...
> What exigency unites Paul Williams, James Pearson and Keith Sharples.

And who's the odd one out..?

Al Evans on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Well it was worth for the video, might make climbing in the Olympics tenable. But who was the fox?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe) Well it was worth for the video, might make climbing in the Olympics tenable. But who was the fox?

The lovely Chrissy Dawn. Where is she now?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> Hi Geoff. Still reflecting on your last offering...In the meantime here's a quickie...
> What exigency unites Paul Williams, James Pearson and Keith Sharples.

Dire Straits?
Sultans of swing - Redhead and Williams
Walk of Life - Pearson
Brothers in Arms - Sharples

Paul is the odd one out as he was not the main man?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to dominic lee)
> [...]
>
> Dire Straits?
> Sultans of swing - Redhead and Williams
> Walk of Life - Pearson
> Brothers in Arms - Sharples
>
> Paul is the odd one out as he was not the main man?
Also Walk of Life and Brothers in Arms were from the same album whilst Sultans of Swing was from the eponymous album.

jon on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Malc Taylor made a point of making the second ascent of Keith's Chee Dale routes, onsight, which he thought irked Keith a bit. When we did Brothers in Arms there was a large undercut that was completely plastered in chalk. Malc climbed past it without touching it, convinced that Keith had chalked it up specifically to blow his onsight!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Malc Taylor made a point of making the second ascent of Keith's Chee Dale routes, onsight, which he thought irked Keith a bit. When we did Brothers in Arms there was a large undercut that was completely plastered in chalk. Malc climbed past it without touching it, convinced that Keith had chalked it up specifically to blow his onsight!

That is amusing! and impressive if he managed to on-sight all of them!
Ian Parsons - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

Of course, if Malc had done the sensible thing and climbed at night that wouldn't have been a risk. Or was it fluorescent chalk?
dominic lee - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Spot on Geoff.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee: Right then.

What individual effort unites Matt Nuttall, John Arran and Nick Bullock and the name of another notable climber I have deliberately not listed (twice)?

Also who is the missing climber (this person would normally be included in such a list)?

Note:
The list (even with the inclusion of the omission) is almost certainly not definitive. So you can have extra kudos, if you can add to it.
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Soloing Right Wall! Add Phil Davidson.

jcm
jon on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to jon)

> That is amusing! and impressive if he managed to on-sight all of them!

There were at least a couple of others, can't remember the names. Naturally having watched Malc effortlessly climb the route without the undercut,I was persuaded that that was the way to do it. Of course having a tenth of Malc's strength, I realised that his theory was probably nonsense as I took to the air. Same thing happened about an hour later on Sloe Gin...

GeoffRadcliffe - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Soloing Right Wall! Add Phil Davidson.
>
> jcm

Correct!

Do you happen to know of any others?

Your turn.
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

>Not sure I do, though one feels there must be others.

OK, an easy one (I think, anyway) what links Bosigran’s Great Zawn, Pembroke’s Stennis Head, Pavey Ark and Speke’s Mill Mouth (and Binnein Shuas)?

jcm
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johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Did we ever get the speeding and Cimmerian journey, by the way?

Cimmerian is something to do with the Greeks, isn't it? That's as far as I go.

jcm
Rick Sewards - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Kubla Khan!

Xanadu, Pleasuredome, Alph, Down to a Sunless Sea and Kubla Khan itself.

Happen to be sorting through my guidebook collection this evening...

Rick
johncoxmysteriously - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

Very good. Your turn.

jcm
Rick Sewards - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

OK... where do two crags face each other, the wrong way round?

And seeing as there have been several double questions - my earlier one, still outstanding

Where can you find a footballer and his chairman (and who are they?)

Rick

GeoffRadcliffe - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Nicely thouht out link John. Pity it was solved so quickly.

The answer to the other Cimmerian cryptic question is still up for grabs...
Gordon Stainforth - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
>
> OK... where do two crags face each other, the wrong way round?
>
I hope this isn't too ridiculously an easy answer, and doesn't seem like I'm taking the piss, but it works: Burbage East and Burbage West face each other, and Burbage East faces west and Burbage West faces east. Grabs coat.
Rick Sewards - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Not a ridiculous answer, but not the right one. To save everyone trying to think of similar, the answer does not lie in the points of the compass.

Rick
Gordon Stainforth - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

The real answer better be better than mine :( ... :))
GeoffRadcliffe - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards: Glen Ogle Sport Crags?
Rick Sewards - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Nope (and not sure why it might be, but feel free to enlighten me). Back later to check/offer clues.

Rick
GeoffRadcliffe - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Nope (and not sure why it might be, but feel free to enlighten me). Back later to check/offer clues.
>
> Rick

I was thinking of Mirror Wall there.

Jim Braid - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
>
> OK... where do two crags face each other, the wrong way round?
>
Maybe not crags exactly but on Lochnagar the highest top is Cac Carn Beag (beag being Gaelic for little) and the second highest top not too far away is Cac Carn Mor (mor being Gaelic for big). So tops are the wrong way round though I couldn't claim that they are separate crags. Possibly a similar answer (big v little) elsewhere.
Rick Sewards - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to Jim Braid:

Nope, that's not it either (isn't Aonach Beag bigger than Aonach Mor too?), and that's not the theme in this case. For a clue, think back to a major sporting event of three weekends ago (this clue would have been more helpful if I'd been able to set this question 3 weeks ago!)

Rick
Ian Parsons - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Fast driving out of London (except you would have probably said up the M1) vaguely suggests the Holliwells; but, beyond an extremely tenuous link between the centre of a Cimmerian journey and T Rex, that's the extent of my probings in that direction. You may have to tell us - except I think that Neil might be back.
Ian Parsons - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

An alternative but only slightly less tenuous suggestion; could it involve "speeding down" - ie falling - not actually on M1 but on a route in its proximity, and Mount Etna?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: The creation of another of his offerings, it is clear will get you a lot warmer.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> An alternative but only slightly less tenuous suggestion; could it involve "speeding down" - ie falling - not actually on M1 but on a route in its proximity, and Mount Etna?

As you have now realised the speeding does not refer to driving. All climbs involved are in the UK.
Ian Parsons - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Ok - so it's not Upping The Ante, then, which one might regard as "giving rise to" Etna. Falling was actually a very early thought for "speeding down", which has yet to make much progress!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
> (In reply to Jim Braid)
For a clue, think back to a major sporting event of three weekends ago (this clue would have been more helpful if I'd been able to set this question 3 weeks ago!)
>
There have been a few sporting events termed "The Wong Way Round" even issuing tee shirts using that as a logo. Often when the normal route is reversed. Could this be a clue?

GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
>
> Ok - so it's not Upping The Ante, then, which one might regard as "giving rise to" Etna.

No but, I like the way you are thinking. That would have been the basis for a good quiz question. Pity!
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Ramblin dave - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Is it something to do with Atlantis? The Cimmerians in Conan were descendants of colonists from Atlantic (thanks wiki) and that ended fairly cataclysmically...
Ian Parsons - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

> No but, I like the way you are thinking. That would have been the basis for a good quiz question. Pity!

It would have actually been quite a good basis for this question, bearing in mind that you initially aimed it at me; I once broke a hold on V2 where it crosses the girdle and stopped level with my belayer who was on one of those ledges under Entropy, the centre three letters of " a Cimmerian journey" also happen to be my name, and I added the direct finish to Simon Lee's route Upping The Ante!
Ian Parsons - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

That's a thought, which in turn brings to mind Minotaur. Jon (de Montjoye)?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: It's nothing to do with Atlantis.
Rick Sewards - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

> There have been a few sporting events termed "The Wong Way Round" even issuing tee shirts using that as a logo. Often when the normal route is reversed. Could this be a clue?

No, the clue related to activity with an oval-shaped ball from three weekends ago. Any further clues might be bordering on giving the game away...

Rick
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards: Cheddar Gorge?
Ramblin dave - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
I was guessing Goblin Coomb...
Ramblin dave - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Plus somewhere else...
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave: It's not in Avon. You were closer with somewhere else!
Ian Parsons - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Further thought has prompted several possibilities, out of which the current front-runner is probably:

- M1 (High Tor); first (almost) free ascent - Tom Proctor
- Hercules (Stoney), whose Labours could possibly be regarded as a Cimmerian journey, particularly any that took place in the region of the Black Sea; first ascent - Tom Proctor
- Dies Irae, "The Day of Wrath" (Stoney), probably fairly cataclysmic, world-ending, etc; FFA - Tom Proctor

Stumbled on this version after pursuing Drummond - M1 completely free, The Maze (another form of Cimmerian journey in the Minoan context) and (with Proctor) The Haystack (first free route up Avon's Exploding Galaxy Wall); and Willmott - M1 at Avon, Exploding Galaxy itself, but a bit stuck on the Cimmerian journey. None quite explain the speeding thing, although there are plenty of hallucinogenic references among Willmott's routes.
Rick Sewards - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hang on, who's question are we talking about? If it's mine, none of these are the correct answers. I'd like to give another clue, but you have to be so careful with the language you use, so as not to mislead.

Rick

PS for those who don't like the more cryptic style of question, my other question about the footballer and his chairman is not particularly cryptic, though it is pretty obscure.
Ian Parsons - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Ramblin dave) It's not in Avon. You were closer with somewhere else!

That scotches my back-up theories, then!
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:Hi Rick.

Sorry if it wasn't clear.
I was thinking of rugby players named Cliff. E.g Cliff Morgan. Reversing the name gives Morgan. Captain Morgan?
Ramblin dave - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
I was looking for a welsh rugby player corresponding to an English crag and vice versa (or similar), but didn't further than Andrew Coombs...
Rick Sewards - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Hi Geoff

It's not that obscure, and doesn't need a vast knowledge of rugby either - the clue specifically relates to the weekend of 16/17 March. I've sneaked two other clues in as well so far, though they are only of borderline usefulness.

Rick

PS for anyone who's confused by the multiple live puzzles, all my clues are to do with the question about two crags facing each other the wrong way round
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: Speeding down the M1 as you correctly thought was to do with falling. Who fell almost the full length of the first pitch of M1 whilst trying to clip the belay?

The remainder of the clue refers to two linked routes. The first by the person in question. Try thinking of another word for Cimmerian as it has nothing to do with the underworld!
john arran - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

Ban-y Gor and Wyndcliffe?

Also, I seem to recall Jerry soloing Right Wall at some point - probably several times. No doubt others too as it's only 6b+ but soloing seems to be less popular nowadays.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran: I wouldn't be surprised if Dave Thomas had also soloed it as he has done Lord.

You beat me to the crags in question as I was searching along the Wales/England border. However I wouldn't have got it from the original question.
Ian Parsons - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Was Dom on the right track with Moran? I've just noticed your "creation of another of his offerings" clue, which could suggest The Sun. And World's End would obviously fit.
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: It's not Jim.
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GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons: The routes in the main question are on derbyshire limestone.

The other (separate) clue referred to a route on Stanage. That should narrow it down a bit.
Rick Sewards - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:
> (In reply to Rick Sewards)
>
> Ban-y Gor and Wyndcliffe?
>
...is the correct answer! The point being (for anyone still wondering), that the one with the English name is in Wales, and the one with the Welsh name is in England, hence they're the wrong way round. The clues were the 6 Nations decider, and various references to borders and language.

Over to you

Rick

dominic lee - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Bugger! Been mulling this over at work. Thought i might have it with the Hot Aches vid, Odessey which ended i think with Hazel taking a bad fall on Impact Day. Back to M1 then..
john arran - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:


Ok, a 3-part question all about UK climbing walls. Need all 3 correct answers to win.

Which walls:-

1) in the 90s featured an artificial caving system network as well as climbing walls

2) in the 90s was the first indoor wall to support trad leading

3) in the 70s bought lots of white-soled climbing shoes for climbers to wear so as not to spoil the look of the wall with black rubber streaks.
dominic lee - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Was it John Fleming who had the mishap on M1..? Found himself at The Heart Of Darkness on Chee Tor, a Joseph Conrad Classic describing a journey into the benighted Congo rainforests which gave rise to the film Apocalypse now..Apocalypse being a cataclysmic Chee Tor classic ...
Gordon Stainforth - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
> (In reply to john arran)
> [...]
> ...is the correct answer! The point being (for anyone still wondering), that the one with the English name is in Wales, and the one with the Welsh name is in England, hence they're the wrong way round. The clues were the 6 Nations decider, and various references to borders and language.

Have to say: that was a brilliant question. I'm really kicking myself now, given that I was based in that area for three years of my life.

Gordon Stainforth - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:
> (In reply to Rick Sewards)
>
>
> Ok, a 3-part question all about UK climbing walls. Need all 3 correct answers to win.
>
> Which walls:-
>
> 1) in the 90s featured an artificial caving system network as well as climbing walls
>
> 2) in the 90s was the first indoor wall to support trad leading
>
> 3) in the 70s bought lots of white-soled climbing shoes for climbers to wear so as not to spoil the look of the wall with black rubber streaks.

Sounds a bit like Ratho ?? But it could easily be somewhere like the Brecon Climbing Wall?

(Sorry, I'm only pissing about really. Been far too busy to look at UKC today).
Rick Sewards - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:

I think I know the intended answer to (2), but does it completely throw your question if I point out that I was using trad gear (in what I think were reliable placements, but I never tested them!) on a purpose-built climbing wall in the early '80s?

Rick
GeoffRadcliffe - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> Was it John Fleming who had the mishap on M1..? Found himself at The Heart Of Darkness on Chee Tor, a Joseph Conrad Classic describing a journey into the benighted Congo rainforests which gave rise to the film Apocalypse now..Apocalypse being a cataclysmic Chee Tor classic ...

You have it Dom. Well done.
Yes John reached the belay on M1 and due to having the krab the wrong way round fumbled to clip the belay. Meanwhile his second had paid out loads of slack and was about to take him off belay when John fell off backwards and head first down M1 just stopping a few feet from the ground.

Any ideas on the Stanage route?
john arran - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

For clarity then: "which was designed with the intention of facilitating trad leading".

Conferring allowed. Two out of 3 wins with extra nerd points for the third.
Rick Sewards - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:

OK, well I reckon the answer to (2) is Rock City in Hull (but the cracks in the Dolphin Centre at Darlington took gear!)

I'm going to take a guess that (1) is Llangorse.

And an even wilder guess that (3) is Leeds University, just because it's the only wall I've heard of from that era!

Rick
john arran - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

Right, right, wrong; so over to you.

Just the hard one left if anyone knows or is curious.
Rick Sewards - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:

I'm running out of ideas now...

OK, complete this sequence:

Ben Nevis, Aonach Dubh, Scafell, Gimmer, Dinas Cromlech, Tremadoc, Almscliff, Stanage, Avon, ?

(Ben Nevis, Aonach Dubh and Tremadoc are arguably slightly cheating, but we'll leave them in)

Rick
GeoffRadcliffe - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:

Hi John.
I may be the only one but I am curious to know who
in the 70s bought lots of white-soled climbing shoes for climbers to wear so as not to spoil the look of the wall with black rubber streaks?

I've never heard of it or seen any white-soled boots. Also what make were the boots?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards: Bosigran
Grahame N - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

> OK, complete this sequence:
>
> Ben Nevis, Aonach Dubh, Scafell, Gimmer, Dinas Cromlech, Tremadoc, Almscliff, Stanage, Avon, ?
>
Bosigran?
Rick Sewards - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

Correct, and you got there first, so your turn. Although I should have done my maths teacher impersonation and asked people to explain their working...

Rick
Grahame N - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

> Correct, and you got there first, so your turn. Although I should have done my maths teacher impersonation and asked people to explain their working...
>

Pipped by 2 minutes.
Was it something to do with Hard Rock?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:

> (Ben Nevis, Aonach Dubh and Tremadoc are arguably slightly cheating, but we'll leave them in)
>

The crags all appeared in Extreme Rock, Hard Rock and Classic Rock.
But can you explain the cheating element?

Ramblin dave - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
Technically they aren't all the same crag, just the same mountain?
ads.ukclimbing.com
Ramblin dave - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Or area, in the case of Tremadog.
Rick Sewards - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

The routes on these 3 are on separate crags/buttresses, so it's arguable whether they are single crags for this purpose. Of course, this was a tricky question for anyone not in possession of an appreciating asset!

Rick
GeoffRadcliffe - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards: I think we can forgive that. Good question though!

I would like to resurrect your other question as I have not been able to solve it (however a clue may be needed soon):
Where can you find a footballer and his chairman (and who are they?)

and also if Dominic wants to ask a cryptic question (as he solved my latest one)?
john arran - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

The original Warwick University end-of-sports-hall wall. I used to go there when I was a kid living nearby but that was already after the white-soled shoes debate had been and gone so we were allowed to use any climbing shoes - not that there was a huge choice at the time anyway.
I don't recall the make of white-soled shoes. It could have been Calanques as I believe they came in a white sole option which was actually a lot stickier but also much softer than EB rubber, but I'm not sure about the chronology.
jon on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to john arran:

Where did you live near Warwick, John?
Were the shoes Paragots, by any chance?
dominic lee - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe: Hi Geoff. Great question. I was unaware of John's
dive, and like Ian was getting entangled in Ariadne's thread ..until your well timed prod. Was the Stanage route Right Wall..?

Another teaser.? Who's rise and fall was precipitated by a bean counters tiresome offspring..?
Rick Sewards - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:

OK, the question resurrected with a couple of clues

Where can you find a footballer and his chairman (and who are they?) Normally you'd expect the footballer to be fitter and stronger than his chairman, but in this case they're performing at the same level (E2, as it happens). In addition, the chairman has a significant connection (unrelated to climbing) with the place.

Rick
GeoffRadcliffe - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe) Hi Geoff. Great question. I was unaware of John's
> dive, and like Ian was getting entangled in Ariadne's thread ..until your well timed prod. Was the Stanage route Right Wall..?

It's not right wall. The route is one of John's routes and the separate question contains several clues...
johncoxmysteriously - on 10 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:

Bob Drury's?

jcm
dominic lee - on 11 Apr 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Nope.
dominic lee - on 11 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons) The creation of another of his offerings, it is clear will get you a lot warmer.
Apologies for my lazy attempt...I was hoping this might relate to John having an illicit Still in his back garden... However the clues also allude to Fire, flames and heat often resulting in Ashes...?

GeoffRadcliffe - on 11 Apr 2013
In reply to dominic lee:
>The creation of another of his offerings, it is clear will get you a lot warmer.

It's a route by John on Stanage. It's not Ashes.
Clues are: creation, it's clear, and a lot warmer.
john arran - on 11 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:

I lived and went to school in Leamington, so I would have been going to Warwick wall and (the 'new'!) Coventry wall from about 78/9 until I trotted off to Sheffield Uni in 81.

No idea about the shoe brand, sorry. That bit of memory no longer seems to exist. The story was related to me by Ted Lister (maybe you know/knew him?); he was one of the main early influences in my climbing and was still one of the more accomplished climbers locally at he time, albeit post-injuries.
Ian Parsons - on 11 Apr 2013
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to john arran)
> Were the shoes Paragots, by any chance?

Seems likely, or the Grimsel which possibly also had that sole - both made by Ets Billard; or an earlier version of either. Did any other manufacturer use the white rubber?
Phil Kelly - on 22 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to john arran)
>
> Hi John.
> I may be the only one but I am curious to know who
> in the 70s bought lots of white-soled climbing shoes for climbers to wear so as not to spoil the look of the wall with black rubber streaks?
>
> I've never heard of it or seen any white-soled boots. Also what make were the boots?

Wasn't there a make of boot called Yellow Creepers that had a very light sole?
GeoffRadcliffe - on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to Phil Kelly:
> (In reply to GeoffRadcliffe)
> [...]
>
> Wasn't there a make of boot called Yellow Creepers that had a very light sole?

I don't remember those, but I had a pair of very stiff climbing boots which had pink and green soles.
jon on 23 Apr 2013
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
> (In reply to Phil Kelly)
> [...]
>
> I don't remember those, but I had a pair of very stiff climbing boots which had pink and green soles.

Made by One Sport but it was the back half of the sole that was coloured. The right was pink and the left green - or the other way around. As you say Geoff, incredibly stiff, like front-pointing!

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