/ 40 minute 10k

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WillBroad - on 11 Mar 2013
Afternoon all,

I've got my sights set on getting sub-40 minutes for the Derby 10k this April 28th, and I'd be interesting to hear from anyone that has a similar goal.

Yesterday I finally managed to hit sub 1.30 (1.28) for the MK half which makes me think a 40min 10k should be achievable. However the pace required pace is insane - 6.25's I believe.

Can anyone recommend specific training sessions for this kind of time? There is no abundance of hills in this part of London, so hill training is out.. thankfully!

Cheers,Will
conorcussell - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to WillBroad: What speedwork do you usually do?

10-12x 400m's w/ 200m recovery should be quite effective in speeding you up if you are a bit slower over short distances.

at 1.28 for a HM i would think you are capable of a sub 40.
andy - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to WillBroad: I thought a sub-90 half was harder than a sub-40 10k actually - I certainly did the latter a lot earlier than the former.

I've found these sessions really good (hard, as the recovery's so short). We tend to do the 800, 1k and 1200 sessions.

http://www.strengthandfitnessuk.com/tempo-intervals
IainRUK - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to WillBroad) I thought a sub-90 half was harder than a sub-40 10k actually - I certainly did the latter a lot earlier than the former.
>
> I've found these sessions really good (hard, as the recovery's so short). We tend to do the 800, 1k and 1200 sessions.
>
> http://www.strengthandfitnessuk.com/tempo-intervals

I'd have thought that.. aye I reckon longer intervals, 400 at the shortest to maybe 1k/1200s..

but just basic milage will help a lot at that speed.

BVt I'd have thought 38 ish would be more achievable..
IainRUK - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to andy: they are good.. first off I'd go with 400m jog though.. focus on getting used to a quality effort, evenly paced.
JM - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to WillBroad: It all about your pacing and speed for a sub 40 10k. Work very hard on increasing your 5k time and try and carry this pace into a full 10k. Run a sub 20 min 10k with a heart monitor. Wait until your heart rate drops to 20% above resting and then do another 5k aiming for 20 mins. Aim to reduce the recovery time needed.
The New NickB - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to WillBroad:

You should be able to do sub 40 now, first time I ran sub 40 (39:55) I ran my first sub 90 half (1:28:06) two weeks later.

What is your 5k PB?
The New NickB - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to The New NickB:

I ran a 10k PB yesterday, 38:18, I have been doing very little speed work of late, just lots of miles. I just did two 5ks back to back, each 26 seconds slower than my 5k PB.
Liam M - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to WillBroad) I thought a sub-90 half was harder than a sub-40 10k actually - I certainly did the latter a lot earlier than the former.
>
>
I've yet to hit either (am around 1min over in both cases), but when I was running well last year I felt I was a lot closer to sub-90; not least because my current sub 91min HM pb was on a much lumpier and slower course than my 41.10ish 10k sb.

I find it fairly easy to develop endurance; you just add loads of easy paced volume. It's trying to make progress on short distance pace I find an arse.

To the op: I've found track work the hardest and most effective speed work. I attend a session that includes efforts (for 40min 10k target) such as 16x400m in 1.28-1.30 off 45s rest, or 8x800m in3.00-3.02 off 90s.

Though a friend who lacks a little in endurance, but has good speed raves on 6-7x1mile at 6.26 off 1min.

The New NickB - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to WillBroad:

I am not sure why you see 6:25 miles as an insane pace, when you have done the half in sub 6:45 mile pace. For most runner around that pace, 20-25 seconds per mile is a pretty natural step up or step down between the distances.

How evenly did you run your half? I run a lot more evenly these days, but when I ran 1:28, I went through 10k in 39:24 and then slowed later in the race.
NMN - on 11 Mar 2013
In reply to WillBroad:

This program was excellent for me.
From virtually all fell running I decided I'd quite like to get sub-40 min road 10k and ended up with a 38m17s last December.

http://www.time-to-run.com/training/10k/sub40.htm
WillBroad - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to The New NickB: My second half was quicker than the first Nick, until the last couple of miles when I dropped down to around 7.00.

I was running with a friend who also had a GPS on, so it was a case of fastidious pace watching. Definitely prefer to average slightly faster miles early to allow for slowdown in the last couple.

To the previous poster - yes, I used to do track sessions, but stopped after uni. Maybe its something I should get back into.
WillBroad - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to The New NickB: Also - Nick that's a spectacular time if you haven't been doing much speedwork. Painful?
The New NickB - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to WillBroad:

I find all racing painful, if it isn't hurting you are not trying hard enough, but not disproportionately so.

I am running a lot of miles at 7 minute pace at the moment, so stepping up a bit isn't too hard, but doing very little sub 6 minute pace, so that would feel very fast.

Sounds like you managed to run 6:30-40 for 10 miles, so 6:25 isn't too much of a step up for 10k.
WillBroad - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to NMN: Did you follow this to the letter? It is 20 days continuous running with only 3 rest days! Where would climbing fit in that schedule...

> This program was excellent for me.
> From virtually all fell running I decided I'd quite like to get sub-40 min road 10k and ended up with a 38m17s last December.
>
> http://www.time-to-run.com/training/10k/sub40.htm

alicia - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to WillBroad) I thought a sub-90 half was harder than a sub-40 10k actually - I certainly did the latter a lot earlier than the former.
>
> I've found these sessions really good (hard, as the recovery's so short). We tend to do the 800, 1k and 1200 sessions.
>
> http://www.strengthandfitnessuk.com/tempo-intervals

I tried out your 1200 session last night--it was indeed really good! Really hard, but in a good way; it felt just about a perfect level of effort.
kj001 - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to WillBroad: There is a race time predictor on Runners World website which I find works well for converting times from different distances. It already suggests that a 1/2 marathon time of 1.28 would give you a 10K time of 39'52"

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/general/rws-race-time-predictor/1681.html
andy - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to alicia:
> (In reply to andy)
> [...]
>
> I tried out your 1200 session last night--it was indeed really good! Really hard, but in a good way; it felt just about a perfect level of effort.

6x1k for us. Pooped. As was my 10 yo daughter who was doing 10x400's, bless her.
NMN - on 13 Mar 2013
In reply to WillBroad:
> (In reply to NMN) Did you follow this to the letter? It is 20 days continuous running with only 3 rest days! Where would climbing fit in that schedule...

Fitting climbing in also is very difficult! Going to try this year though.

I followed the program twice running up to the race with 3 weeks (i think) in between where I did whatever but tried to keep weekly mileage quite high.
First time I added a few extra rest days to the program due to other commitments, working away etc.
Second time I kept the rest days down to the program.
Both times I moved the days around to work around other commitments and although I guess it is structured a certain way this didn't seem to affect the result.

ads.ukclimbing.com
mbh - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to NMN:

I am 50. I used to post here a fair bit in the Fit Club a few years ago, then stopped. Meanwhile, work took over and my weight ballooned to 77 kg (BMI 28). Nine months ago I dropped to four days work a week and started again. I have done more than 1200 miles since, plus over 100 miles of swimming and a bit of walking and cycling, and my BMI is now 23-23.5. Interestingly (to me, at least), I lost all the weight, from 77 kg to 64 kg in the first four months, and have lost nothing since, despite that my exercise levels have been greater.

One of my motivations has been the near 90 year old guy I often see out walking when I am running. He was one of the commando corps that opened up the climbing in West Penwith, and walks 5-6 miles every day. If I can get to that age and do what he does, I'll be happy.

My average running mileages for the last 12/6/3/1 months are 23.6/35/37/45 miles pw, with 700-1000 m of ascent each week.

When I first started out, for several weeks I didn't bother with timings, thinking that the thing to do was just to get out and do something, but since October I have had a GPS watch, a Garmin 501, and have used it to make sure I do at least some fast miles each week. Fast, for me, has mainly meant sub 8:00, but latterly I have seen that I can do sub 7:30 on the flat.

On the running machine, which I use rarely, I recently did 8k in 32:26, which is sub 6:30 pace, or about 40:00 for 10 K. I was hallucinating by the end, but I was encouraged to see that I could keep going for that long at that pace. I have tried a few interval sessions, but should do more.

I am aiming to succeed this year on the Welsh 3000s with my wife, having just failed last year, following a combination of a fall, bad weather, poor fitness and even worse logistical arrangements ( If I spend another 3 hours doing the bus journey from Pen-y-Pass to Aber, via all those housing estates, I will..... it's a bike, this time).

After that, the Bob Graham round appeals, alone

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