/ What should I climb at the Roaches?
I've been to the Roaches before and I have climbed a bit. I am sure that they can climb harder when seconding as long as the rope is above and not traversing. Anyone have any recommendations? I'm thinking of anything from VD up to maybe HVS (maybe harder don't know how I'll feel). What would you suggest as a progression so starting low and working up?
Much of the Upper Tier is currently bird-banned, and that, unfortunately, includes a lot of the routes I'd recommend in that grade range (Technical Slab, Pedestal Route, Black and Tans etc).
On the Lower Tier, Via Dolorosa (HS/VS borderline), Valkyrie (VS/HVS borderline), Pincer (VS), and Pebbledash at HVS are all good and reasonable.
Beware of various HVSs (Mincer, Matinee, Teck Crack, Valkyrie Direct).
> Valkyrie (VS/HVS borderline),
Got to be Valkyrie, especially if they are going to second. I'd put money on them talking about this route for years in hushed tones and sweaty palms.
> On the Lower Tier, Via Dolorosa (HS/VS borderline), Valkyrie (VS/HVS borderline), Pincer (VS), and Pebbledash at HVS are all good and reasonable.
For a 2nd who has never climbed on Grit, does HS on limestone and is nervous, Valkyrie seems a particularly odd suggestion!
Yes Yong is good I agree. Often green though and quite short.
I might be around on sat so say hi.
Depending on bird ban area.
Tealeaf Crack s (upper tier)
slab & Arete s (Skyline nice and atmospheric at an amenable grade)
Fledglings climb s (lower tier)
Fern Crack VD (upper tier good value at the grade)
Damascus crack HS (upper tier)
Sifta's Quid s (lower tier caving!)
Mantleshelf slab HS (Skyline)
Libra HVS 4c (upper tier, bold move to finish)
Wallaby Direct HVS 5a (upper tier, if they manage Valkyrie)
Something better change gives a nice HVS 5b with siderunners
Poisonous Python HVS 5b (lower tier, a right sod!)
I'd second that as a suggestion as the holds on both pitches are all pretty positive and the "bold" start really isn't (IMO!) - no typical gritstone slopers and smearing as far as I can remember, and the belay ledge is huge. As someone else said, you certainly don't need a 60m rope. It's a lovely route to introduce someone to grit.
Referring to Maud's Garden!
You can do Maud's in a single pitch on double 50s (or probably a single if you don't mind a bit of rope drag) and it isn't severe or 4a in a month of sundays, but it is a cracking little route.
The non bird banned bits of the upper tier seem to have an abundance of routes at severe to HS that are good thuggy gritstone crack fun with abundant protection - Left Route, Right Route, Calcutta Crack, allegedly Crack and Corner although I haven't done it myself. The grades in the definitive are a little on the harsh side, but if you approach them all assuming that they're HS 4c then you can only be pleasantly surprised.
Inverted Staircase is only diff but worth a punt as a warm up or at the end of the day for the classic caving second pitch.
> You can do Maud's in a single pitch on double 50s (or probably a single if you don't mind a bit of rope drag)
What's with all this confusion about route length and ropes on Maud's Garden? it's a 20 odd metre VDiff. you can do it with a 30m single. If you get rope drag you're not extending runners properly.
I said 50m on the assumption that that's what people will have, not that you won't get away with anything shorter.
Sure you could probably just extend the runners properly. I can't remember exactly what happened when I did it, I just meant that it's a reasonably wandering pitch and you might actually need to think about rope drag...
Your memory is faulty... the start of Maud's is very typical rounded gritstone edges with protection that takes skill to place. Someone else said its S 4a... it's not it's a tough VD that's not very technical. It is also a lovely introduction to grit. For somone leading HS coastal limestone grit even VD's can feel hard on grit so its best to start here rather than further up the grades. Grading on grit is harder than most limestone areas with lots of lower grade routes (like Gower or Pembrooke).
> For a 2nd who has never climbed on Grit, does HS on limestone and is nervous, Valkyrie seems a particularly odd suggestion!
And though it would be OK to CLIMB on second, the poor second might get nervous belaying the OP up Technical Slab :-)
Sifta's Quid on the lower tier is a nice safe HS (the outside route - there is also an inside route)
For a bit of jamming practice, have a look at Yong HVD (lower tier, near the steps)
+1 for Slab and Arete on skyline, really enjoyed it. There are also a few good easy (vdiffish) routes on hen cloud like the arete.
Yup, I remember this feeling very well too - and I thought the descent down the flake and the step across was the crux!
Hmmm, funny how memory plays tricks or maybe different people have different perceptions of a route. As my profile reveals, I don't have a lot of grades in hand and yet I found it pretty easy. But I'm not going to argue with someone who runs a database of gritstone routes and their grades!! I'd agree with your assessment of top end VDiff.
> Your memory is faulty... the start of Maud's is very typical rounded gritstone edges with protection that takes skill to place.
I thought the gear was easy enough to place once you finally got to it. And yeah, distinctly rounded but easy angled.
Almost as far into the birdie ban area as it's possible to get.
Actually that's not quite true, the nest is on Humdinger just to the right of Saul's Crack.
It is easy climbing for the grade but the holds are rounded (for boldish VD standard) on the slab moves and the gear not obvious (unless you led it when the shameful chipped out nut-placement was still any good... the moron that did this didn't think of the route ethics nor the fact that being formed from the soft rock underneath the surface it would never last). Your perceptions may well have been influenced by the silly S 4a grade and the moves being 'diff level' technicallity. I've climbed it countless times now (solo quite a few times in the last few years to inspect the chipped slot and gear for reasons that make too long a story for this thread). The brilliant and well protected top section can be accessed by climbing the fun gully just left and traversing in halfway up the slab on small ledges to join the route at good runners above the boldish moves.
Cheers for that. I reckon between us we've now generated enough beta to make it a breeze for all the beginners out there. Love to know the story behind your multiple inspection ascents but this is probably enough drift for one thread!
Make sure you have a drink and are comfortable. There was more offline discussion as well.
Lots of old names on there. Some wild opinions. It's a shame Fawksey is banned. I hope he's still around under a different handle.
LOL I remember that thread!
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