/ Top rope solo's using a shunt (again!)

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cwood2887 - on 04 May 2013
OK first I know millions of posts exist but non really give a concise idea and I have read the pages on the Petzl site.

I have some experience of using ropes in tree climbing and have 2nd' on trad routes a few times.
I boulder reasonably consistently at around 6b and free solo'd a few v, diff (which isn't really something I want to improve on!) but due to family commitments, finances etc. can't travel/ don't have a great deal of time/ don't have a climbing partner etc. etc. never get a chance to climb much proper stuff.
I understand the risk of top rope solo and that it is not the ideal situation but in my position feel it is a viable option for me to get some routes in safely.

I have several crags locally with good anchors for top roping (trees, concreted fence posts) up to around the 30 meter mark.
At this stage I intend to climb within my limits where a fall is relatively unlikely but I am not confident to free solo...

My intention would be to half a dynamic rope and use a Shunt on the climbing line backed up by clipping into knots on the trailing line, with both weighted at the bottom.
What I'm not really sure about is should the rope be "free" on the anchor so it equalizes (as I believe Petzl suggested before removing guidance on using Shunt for TR) or should It be tied at the mid point and clipped to the anchor via a sling?

Or would it be better just to use a single line tied off at the anchor and tie knots below the shunt for back-up, thus not accounting for rope failure which is unlikely on proposed routes as they have curved mostly vegetated top outs.

I welcome any comments, suggestions, abuse for starting yet another thread on this.
Or offers of a sporadic local belay partner in Stirling area!

needvert on 04 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887:

Rope should not be free, if it is your backup scheme doesn't work very well - if at all.

After reading all the other threads you're still going to use a shunt? :(
jimtitt - on 05 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887:
If you use two strands through the Shunt they should be free to equalise, most people use a rope tied off and one strand in the shunt and the other seperately as a back-up (I use a Grigri for this).
Muel - on 05 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887:

Shunts can be dodgy for roped solo's. I use an SAR rocker personally on a single rope, and just tie knots below it on a bight which I then just clip into with a screwgate.
Luke Owens - on 06 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887:

I use a static rope, weighted at the bottom. Shunt on a maillon to my belay loop on one strand of the rope. I use two slings in an X around my shoulders and tie a peice of rope to the shunt to keep it up right.

Never had any problems. If it's good enough for MacLeod it's good enough for me!
Steve nevers on 07 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887: Anyone used a pair of mini/microtraxions on a single rope? Top Traxion held upright by a chest strap/sling, rope doubled from the anchor

Would you suggest running both traxions on one strand and backing up with biners on a Y-lanyard to knots on the second strand? Or a traxion on each strand and regular backup knots on both?
Cheese Monkey - on 07 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887: I use a shunt on one weighted strand, then clip overhand knots on a free strand like you suggest. Usually use one single rope halved to 2 30m strands, tied off with a fig 8 clipped to anchor. Don't weight the knot back up strand else you will be dragging the weight up with you.

This set up is a lot of faff though. I'm thinking of just using a single strand with two devices, a shunt above then trail a micro-traxion or similar on a 20cm sling. Lower safety margin but massively reduced set up and you don't end up dragging 20m of rope with you on the crux
The Ex-Engineer - on 07 May 2013
In reply to jimtitt:
> most people use a rope tied off and one strand in the shunt and the other seperately as a back-up (I use a Grigri for this).

That's interesting as 'most people' doesn't seem to include the BMC President who was enjoying the sunshine and soloing routes at Subluminal on Sunday using just a shunt and a chest sling arrangement to keep it upright...
The Ex-Engineer - on 07 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887: I'd tend towards using a Rocker (made by Troll originally and later by SAR & ISC) or similar device such as the DMM Buddy with a short extension on a weighted single rope.

Depending on how hard a route is, or how much it meanders or goes over/around aretes/bulges/overhangs etc. and whether I am training to failure or not, I would probably clip in short to a second rope as a back-up.

Provided there is a reasonable length of rope between the top of the route and the belay you can happily use either dynamic or semi-static rope for either or both ropes.

However as with most things there are dozens of fairly safe ways of doing this and at some point you will need to make your own decision.
jimtitt - on 07 May 2013
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
> (In reply to jimtitt)
> [...]
>
> That's interesting as 'most people' doesn't seem to include the BMC President who was enjoying the sunshine and soloing routes at Subluminal on Sunday using just a shunt and a chest sling arrangement to keep it upright...

Ha, thatīs because heīs done all the routes a million times and never falls off! I too just use the Shunt sometimes on itīs own for routes Iīm not repeatedly falling off BUT one major difference is where Scott climbs the routes finish at the top, where I climb I have to lower back down so might as well put the Grigri on beforehand.
Monkey_Alan - on 07 May 2013
In reply to jimtitt:
> (In reply to The Ex-Engineer)
> [...]
>
> Ha, thatīs because heīs done all the routes a million times and never falls off!
"Seldom" rather than "Never" - even Scott can be caught out by less than fully attached Swanage rock.
Luke Owens - on 07 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887:

I use my above method for working projects on occasion. Repeatedly "falling" (weighting) on the rope trying moves. I've never known my shunt to slip or fail.
bpmclimb - on 10 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887:

I use two (non-equalising) strands of rope with a shunt on each.

Strand one: weighted, shunt on harness loop. If route hard and sustained, shunt also tied to slings around shoulders or neck to keep it upright and always sliding up rope.

Strand two: unweighted (so I can easily ab back down), shunt attached to harness loop with short sling. I can intermittently reach across, squeeze the shunt and slide it up the rope as back up. Only takes a second, so if you're on steep/sustained ground you can get both hands back on the rock very quickly. Much better than faffing with knots IMO.
Kieran_John - on 10 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887:

Petzl discuss and explain (but don't really recommend) a few options here:

http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/product-experience/self-belay-solo-climbing/introduction

It's something I've considered, but then figured I'm happy enough bouldering when I don't have a belay partner :)
Ross McGibbon - on 10 May 2013
Eh? "solo's using".
The "using" belongs to "solo"?
Doesn't make sense.
cwood2887 - on 12 May 2013
In reply to Ross McGibbon:
Ok "lone top roping using" then......

Had a go today with the system I suggested and it seemed ok.
Quite hard to switch to descent on the main line and a faff to descend the knotted line but that seems to be the only real issue.
If you were stuck hanging as I've read scenario's of you could surely just untie (either by pulling up or just descend to each knot and stop) the back up line and switch to descend on that?

Only other downside seems to be being pretty much set on a straight route so you can't traverse off to either side far at all if the route deviates, can't really see a way around that?
rustaldo - on 12 May 2013
In reply to cwood2887: always wondered.. if you're "TR soloing" and the rope is sufficiently tensioned, can you use a grigri as the auto bloc?

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