/ Lump Hammer for Belay Stakes

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jonathandavey - on 09 May 2013
Hi, I'm looking to place a couple of belay stakes at a work-in-progress crag. Would anyone have a suitable hammer I could borrow just for a day or two? I could collect from Manchester, Rochdale, Todmorden, Halifax or surrounding areas.

Alternatively, anyone got any recommendations for cheapo ones?

Cheers, Jonathan
steveej - on 09 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:

wilkinsons Ģ5 lump hammer perfectly adequate for setting belay stakes or cleaning up new crags
Dave Perry - on 09 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:
I have one for free. But its to collect. Or, you could go to Wilkinson's has has been suggested and avoid paying the petrol costs of borrowing.

If your work in progress lacks holds your lump hammer will soon regrade the crag and knock the holds into the grade you need.
Steve Clark - on 09 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:

Top tip from a man that has driven thousands of survey pegs :

If you are hammering anything into the ground, don't put your thumb around it to grip it. Put all your fingers and thumb around the same side. Then when you miss, it just hurts and doesn't break your hand.

Steve
jonathandavey - on 09 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:

Cheers guys, something like this?

http://www.wilko.com/hammers-chisels+crowbars/wilko-club-hammer-25lb/invt/0209174?VBMST=hammer

Fortunately the crag is small but perfectly formed, with plenty of interesting holds and features ready formed. As soon as the stakes are in it will be ready to go!
scott titt - on 10 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:
I have put many stakes in at the top of cliffs, the 2.5lb hammer is too light, I use a 4lb hammer when I don't want to carry a big one, here is one http://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-steel-fibreglass-club-hammer-4lb/47645 . But if the ground is stony a sledge hammer will repay the investment in minutes! The one in this pic http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=151719 is 14lb but most people find a 7-10lb easier to use.
mcdougal - on 10 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:

I'll hammer the stakes in for you...where's the crag again?
Big Lee - on 10 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:

B&Q have 2.5lb & 4lb lump hammers that don't cost much.

Brownie on 10 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:
You are best not to use a lump hammer to hammer metal things, they are designed to hammer wooden stakes and could shatter if used to hit metal ones.
Lump hammers are moulded you can see moulded lettering on the head. Sledge hammers are forged ie bashed into shape when soft same as a claw hammer- this makes them much less likely to shatter when hitting metal. Some expensive lump hammers are forged too - if using a cheap moulded one make sure you use strong eye protection.
B
jimtitt - on 10 May 2013
In reply to Brownie:
Lump hammers were designed for mining underground and hitting steel chisels is the reason for their existence, builders do this all the time with them. Iīve never had one that hasnīt put up with this treatment and Iīve owned a few in my time. For beating in soft metal stakes itīs utterly irrelevant anyway.
Brownie on 10 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:
I'm happy to stand corrected, but it was just what I was always told at work by the "old wise ones' maybe they were leg pulling- only hit wood with the mell and other moulded hammers.
B
JdotP - on 10 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey:

Don't take any risks with the work, the stakes are too high.
jon on 10 May 2013
In reply to Brownie:

There is something to it, but not relevant to this... I remember hitting one hammer with another and large chunks of one of them repeatedly exploded off it. But I believe that was something to do with the hardening... Jim?
JLS on 10 May 2013
jimtitt - on 11 May 2013
In reply to jon:
There are loads of different hammers and they are designed for different jobs and have a hardening treatment to suit each application, a claw hammer will have light or no hardening as they are only intended for soft nails, an engineers hammer is usually hardened since it will be used for hitting metal. A lump hammer (called a drilling hammer in the USA) is designed for hitting a rock drill or similar and is also hardened.
The heads are either cast steel or forged depending on the manufacturer and the purpose. Mostly it is case hardened so only a thin layer is hard and this can split off it you hit another hardened object, hitting another hammer is an absolute no-no. An engineering or masonary chisel, punch of whatever is hardened on the using end and tempered on the striking end to avoid this problem. This will mushroom out after repeated use and should be ground back to avoid bits cracking off, for safety the hammer head should always be bigger (10mm or so) than the object you hit as any pieces coming off will go away from you.
Iīve plenty of hammers, about 40!
jon on 11 May 2013
In reply to JLS:

Ha, didn't know it was a myth! I had knocked down a blockwork wall built off a concrete slab. There was some cement mortar still stuck to the slab and I was hacking this off with a brick hammer when the wooden shaft broke. Being too lazy to walk across the room to get a lump hammer and bolster chisel, I just picked up an old claw hammer and used it to hit the head of the brick hammer as you would a chisel. It made a metallic noise, but every second or third blow it made a sort of electrical hiss (think striking a welding rod against a piece of metal to start to weld it), and at this point small shards of steel exploded off the edge of the claw hammer. Here it is: http://flic.kr/p/eii79N I guess this is the case hardening that Jim refers to above, flying off. After a dozen or so of these had embedded themselves in my arm I gave up and used the lump hammer and bolster.

So have mythbusters got it wrong? Well their myth was that it caused total destruction of the hammer - which clearly hasn't happened here - so no...
jonathandavey - on 14 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey: Thanks for all the input generously given, the stakes went in reasonably well without too much effort, though ideally I;d like to go back with a bigger hammer to remove any doubt from the back of my mind.

All I need now is for the rain to finally stop...
Cammy - on 15 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey: Mind boggling! It's only a bloody hammer we're talking about!!!!!!
andic - on 15 May 2013
In reply to Brownie:

Generally hardness/yield strength and toughness are inversely proportional. So I am surprised that the danger is from a softer hammer, ie the cast head. probably a bit lost in translation and time. As Jim mentioned the case hardened layer if there is one would be more likely to fail in a brittle manner due to the high martensite content.

Bruce Hooker - on 15 May 2013
In reply to JdotP:
> (In reply to jonathandavey)
>
> Don't take any risks with the work, the stakes are too high.

Well use shorter steaks then! Or stand on a box.

ads.ukclimbing.com
Timmd on 15 May 2013
In reply to Cammy:
> (In reply to jonathandavey) Mind boggling! It's only a bloody hammer we're talking about!!!!!!

Interesting thread in the end though (I think.) I know/knew somebody who lost an eye by hitting a chisel with a hammer and a bit breaking off and going through his eyelid into his eye.
Jim Walton on 16 May 2013
In reply to jonathandavey: I've been a Civil Engineer "Peg Basher" for many years.

I'd recommend a nice 10lb sledge hammer if your not that used to hammering (I could write a long and sadly detailed guide as to how to use one. :-( ). A 14lb hammer if you are a bit more experienced and have perfected your swing.

A little harder to get hold of, but you could use a 28lb hammer. You'd only have to hit the stake once but you probably wouldn't have the strength to climb for the rest of the day!
andic - on 16 May 2013
In reply to Jim Walton:

Is that what is known as a Monday morning hammer?
Jim Walton on 16 May 2013
In reply to andic: A colleague has a 56lb hammer that looks like a Dustbin on the end of a hockey stick. Great for 'adjusting' steel columns when lining them up for plumb but bugger all use for anything else.

Strength test used to be to try and hold it vertical at arms length. I never managed it :-(

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