/ Replacing pegs

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Kemics - on 10 May 2013
How hard is it? Avon seems to be littered with peg stubs. Are pegs that have been in-situ for years actually removeable or do you just end up snapping the eye?

What's the best technique for avoiding damaging the rock?

Judging by a lot of the routes in avon the tactic seems to have been to just bash a new peg in near the old one and leave both. Ideally I'd like to do a tidy a job as possible....assuming it's ethical to even replace pegs?
James90 - on 10 May 2013
In reply to Kemics:

I can sence the UKC trad ethics police homing in on this thread
Nick Russell on 10 May 2013
In reply to Kemics:
> assuming it's ethical to even replace pegs?

It varies from area to area, but the consensus in Avon is that like-for-like replacement is ok. This was decided and voted for at the 2012 BMC South-West area meeting and the launch for the Avon gorge rejuvenation project (ClimbBristol) so I don't think you need have any ethical concerns!
Nick Russell on 10 May 2013
In reply to Nick Russell:
> so I don't think you need have any ethical concerns!

(assuming the usual considerations, that can essentially be summarised as "if you're going to do it, do it properly")
Angrypenguin - on 10 May 2013
In reply to Kemics: Get in contact with the Climb Bristol people. Martin Crocker seems to be organizing Avon regeneration things including renewing bolts and I'm sure he or one of the others could direct you to where efforts would be most appreciated and provide general advice. Think their Facebook is probably best https://www.facebook.com/Climbbristol
jimtitt - on 10 May 2013
In reply to Kemics:
Luck of the draw, Ive probably removed about 25 pegs in the last year and some come out with a light tap and some just snap straight off, one I pulled in the Franken last year broke under the weight of the sling I clipped to it!
The stubs eventually rust away and dissapear, though we are probably talking decades judging by the Swanage experience.
ChrisBrooke - on 10 May 2013
In reply to jimtitt: Still, in the mean time those browny orange stains down the rock work as pretty useful route markers.....
Toerag - on 10 May 2013
In reply to jimtitt: We've started looking at the pegs in the sea cliffs here in Guernsey which were mostly knifeblades and lost arrows put in in the mid '80s. Some snap off, some pull out to reveal very little embedded in the crag (think of the area of a teaspoon), and others are strong enough to hold small falls with a bit of bending! I think the policy could be to not replace pegs where a ball-nut will go, but update the guidebook descriptions to say what size is needed. I don't think ball-nuts were invented when many routes were pegged, so many knifeblade placements are possibly not neccessary now.
henwardian - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Toerag:
> I think the policy could be to not replace pegs where a ball-nut will go

Jesus! Really? I'd fall on a knife blade over an entire nest of ball nuts any day!
ice.solo - on 13 May 2013
In reply to Toerag:

got balls.

im cool with ball-nuts in granite, but seaside sandstone is another level.
fair point tho if it prevents future pegging on soft rock.

arent ball-nuts hard to get in britain tho?
remus - on 13 May 2013
In reply to ice.solo:
> (In reply to Toerag)
> arent ball-nuts hard to get in britain tho?

I dont think so, they're sold here at least: http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Camming-Devices/Micro-Cams/Lowe-Ballnu...

Sure ive seen them in other places as well.
ice.solo - on 13 May 2013
In reply to remus:

seems i had it wrong. i thought there was some issue with CE rating, like with big bros, evidently not so. or maybe just the trango stamped ones.
Toerag - on 13 May 2013
In reply to henwardian:
> (In reply to Toerag)
> [...]
>
> Jesus! Really? I'd fall on a knife blade over an entire nest of ball nuts any day!

You need to see how small the bit of knifeblade hidden in the crack is first! A small one isn't very big at all!
henwardian - on 14 May 2013
In reply to Toerag:
> You need to see how small the bit of knifeblade hidden in the crack is first! A small one isn't very big at all!

I'd take a skyhook over a ball nut :D
Only time I ever tried placing a ballnut, it fell out when I was 2 moves higher up and only time I've played around with one, it seemed pretty hard to get it to properly stick in the crack so I couldn't just yank it out with my hand. Maybe I just need more practice!

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