/ HVS 6b...

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ERH - on 19 May 2013
I was happily perusing my yorkshire grit guide (as I often do on a slow day) when reading the graded list, the grade HVS 6a jumped out at me.

V crack at Almscliff gets HVS 6a, as does Lightning Variation at Ash Head. The 6a for V crack is for the very starting move, but the one for Lightning Variation is the finishing move alternative to a VS 4c. It seems pretty odd that it keeps HVS! **on UKC it gets HVS 5c**

This got me wondering, and yes, there are several HVS 6b's including: Deja Buoux (Rouge Nez, Jersey), Forced Entry (Brimham Rocks), Baslow Eagle Stone Mantle (Baslow Edge), Baslow Eagle Stone Mantle(Scugdale),Dynamo (Park Nab, Kildale) among many others I'm sure.

Finally, I decided to go for the long shot, and search "HVS 6c" only to find that Farytale High at Scugdale has a big brother, Farytale Low (which has the highest technical grade on the crag. Harder than that paltry E6 6b)

Of course, checking it out I find that all the voters had voted it as a VS 7a, which just means that 6 other people have found it before and felt like trolling people.

I'm not going to pass judgement (tho I bitterly want to), I am just wondering what the rest of you think of this rather odd grade. Anyone tried any of those on my list? Got any of your own?
ERH - on 19 May 2013
In reply to ERH: That should read *Farytale High (scugdale)* instead of Baslow Eagle Stone Mantle again :p
ERH - on 19 May 2013
In reply to ERH:
More searching: "Yosemite Rib Direct Start" at warton pinnacle crag gets VS 6c (nobody has logged it) and "North Face Chimney" at Haytor gets VS 6b, but everyone who's bothered to comment has said 4b is more like it :p

Sadly there's no "E1 7a" hiding around to give us a good progression up the grades
Duncan Bourne - on 19 May 2013
In reply to ERH:
I could imagine a HVS 6b with hard finishing moves if they were well protected (so you could hang around dogging it for ages) and there was an easier alternative finish (that you could escape on if you got bored)
Pagan - on 19 May 2013
In reply to ERH:

Lightning Variation is a boulder problem alternative start to an existing route - none of the moves are outside of highballing territory.
victim of mathematics - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Pagan:

Without a pad, if you fell off the last moves to the crack, you could easily spanner yourself. And the crawl back to the road wouldn't be fun...

I would ignore any grades at that crag though, it's 100% sandbag.
ERH - on 19 May 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:

> I would ignore any grades at that crag though, it's 100% sandbag.

Sounds like an endorsement! I'll be over there as soon as I can :)
phleppy on 19 May 2013
In reply to ERH: It is rather strange isn't it but scugdale is a strange crag.
Fairy Tale High has unfortunately changed after it looks as if a hold broke off at some point since it was first climbed in the 70's, i have tried it and it's at least hard british 6b, possibly 6c now and has also been done from down and right from sit at font 7bish.
As for Fairy Tale Low, it's rather sandy so i've never really give it a good go. In that area, i think it's all down to the landings being mostly flat & grassy and all the routes have all the hard moves done by 3m up. It kind of makes sense when your there though.
Humbug over on Scot's is supposed to be the hardest line on the crag but i've heard that Grandmaster Flash(that E6 6b you mention) is harder, that may be down to reports that a hold broke off on Humbug not that long ago.
Scugdale is the Bowden of the north york moors really, it gets practically all the traffic of the surrounding population...unfortunately, yea going off a bit there but had to be said.
Dynamo at park nab is seriously undergraded due to ground erosion, i was present when it last received a known ascent(in the dark) & think i heard a grade of E4 7a floating about, i may have heard that wrong though, so thinking about it you may have your first HVS 7a.
Franco Cookson on 19 May 2013
In reply to ERH:

I voted it VS 7a. It's not a sandbag, that's just how hard it felt to me. Seems pretty bizarre to sit in your armchair complaining if you haven't done it. There are loads of HVS 7as about and this is just a bit too safe to warrant that grade.
Franco Cookson on 19 May 2013
In reply to phleppy:
> (In reply to ERH) It is rather strange isn't it but scugdale is a strange crag.
>
> Humbug over on Scot's is supposed to be the hardest line on the crag but i've heard that Grandmaster Flash(that E6 6b you mention) is harder, that may be down to reports that a hold broke off on Humbug not that long ago.

Humbug is no longer the grade it was (E4 6c?). It's now E3 6b due to chiselling. Grand master is harder at E5 6b, but I think it's Parker's tomato ketchup thing that's E6 6b. Looks awful mind, total death problem.

> Scugdale is the Bowden of the north york moors really, it gets practically all the traffic of the surrounding population...unfortunately, yea going off a bit there but had to be said.

aye

> Dynamo at park nab is seriously undergraded due to ground erosion, i was present when it last received a known ascent(in the dark) & think i heard a grade of E4 7a floating about, i may have heard that wrong though, so thinking about it you may have your first HVS 7a.

Yeh, that's probably 6c. With pads it's an OK highball, without it would likely be E4 6c.
deepsoup - on 19 May 2013
In reply to ERH:
If you believe everything you read in the definitive guide, there's a HVS 6a at Stanage: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=9874

It's never 6a, but then again I don't think I could give it a more accurate technical grade. It's both awkward and weird, and the kind of thing most climbers (including me) just don't really know how to do any more.
phleppy on 19 May 2013
In reply to Franco Cookson: As far as i see it, whoever did that to Humbug would probably be local....oh & a PRICK. An assumption of course but you see where i'm coming from.

A fall from the holds on the upper wall without a mat on Dynamo would be bad, spotting you from the corner crack seemed the best option at the time, along with the other 3 spotters directly below.
Albachoss - on 19 May 2013
In reply to ERH: Not to mention Elder Statesman XS 7a. It has three irreversible dynamic moves in a row with only one point of contact. Steve McClure had 3 singles tied to his harness for fear of slicing them on the arete. The technical grade is obviously for the hardest moves. As for the adjective grade, with bomber cams in the corner crack before stepping out on the arete, it's safe. The only risk is not having a soft enough catch and swinging back into the arete and face. A soft catch would be well above the ground and comfortable.
ERH - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Franco Cookson:
> (In reply to ERH)
>
> I voted it VS 7a. It's not a sandbag, that's just how hard it felt to me. Seems pretty bizarre to sit in your armchair complaining if you haven't done it.

I wasn't complaining, just thought it was a pretty bizarre grade! I honestly thought that if I found what was already the most oddly graded route on UKC, and 6 people had voted it to be even more odd (6 out of 2 that have logged it) then they were probably trolling.

Is there any point in keeping it as a trad grade, or should it just get a boulder grade if it's so safe+hard?

I know Scugdale is a bit of a "everything is just a highball anyway" place...
ERH - on 19 May 2013
In reply to ERH:

Also, where are all these other HVS 7a's???
Franco Cookson on 22 May 2013
In reply to ERH: look but round about and they'll fill your gaze. HVS 7a be as common as porkiepines on a summers day.
johncoxmysteriously - on 22 May 2013
In reply to deepsoup:

Hah! Given that IIRC the authors of the database couldn't get anywhere near Nursery Crack a few years ago, I reckon them giving it HVS 5b is a bit mean.

TBH though there are demarcation issues with the start. It's a lot easier stepping off the block, and then there are cheats who count the arÍte as being in. For doing it properly - i.e. just the crack - HVS 6a is fine.

jcm

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