/ UKC Fit Club Week 322

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Ali - on 19 May 2013
Initial post to get it started - stats to follow...
Daniel Heath - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

M-4x4 circuits. Overpaced so 4th set fell apart, but I don't think that's a problem. Press ups
W-Working 10-12 moves at a time on the 8a circuit
T-Weighted pull ups. Could't be bothered but my housemate warned me that I might get weaker if I didn't do them...
F-Some power on the 45 deg woodie, then messing about on circuit. Press ups
S-Bouldering sesh for power.
S-3 mile run. Slow with some fast bits.

Weight is going well. 63.8 kg this morning. 13.6% fat (fat fluctuates a lot)

Got the RAF lead champs on 29th, so getting light for that and also getting some power in (I think I have enough endurance now). I think it's all coming together, so psyched for climbing this summer!

-A mix of dedicated power and endurance sessions.
-Dieting steadily down to follow my food plan (0.5kg per week)

Sankey - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Daniel Heath: Fair week: 3 indoor sessions and a bike ride.
Should be able to get back out on the lime next weekend.

M: Matrix: Probs 6a-6c (6c was v. soft!)
T: Exercise bike 8.5 km
W: Foundry: 15 level 1 problems, working 3 level 2 problems, did one of them
S: Foundry - managed another level 2 problem I was working on W
S: Road Bike 23.2 miles 2500 feet ascent

STG: Start aerobic stuff for summer trip to Alps+More 7a's

MTG: 7a+ Appetite

LTG: 7b I guess, why not!
Ali - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali: Stats to follow this evening when I get home - sorry for delay!
Banned User 77 - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

m: 20.5 mile trail run, 6:53 pace
t: am: 8.7 miles road run. pm: 4 mile trail run
w: 14 mile hill rep session, 500m ascent
t: 20.35 miles in 82 F heat.. 6:55 pace hard day..
f: am: 4 miles steady. pm: 4 miles steady
s: am: 9 mile trail run. pm: 5 k with 3 k at 5:36 pace.
s: 13.6 mile road and trail run, 6:55 pace.
Daniel Heath - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Thanks Ali and don't worry too much. I feel there should be no expectation of stats or comments. Hope you've had a good day
mbh - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Mo: 8.2 miles run, 2 km swim
Tu: 5.8 miles run
We: 5.8 miles run
Fr: 6 miles run, 2 km swim
Sa: 10 miles run, 2 km swim, 12.5 miles cycle
Su: 10 miles run. 1:19 - first time I have gone under 1:20 over 10 miles.

45 miles in all, 8 miles at under 7:45 pace, only 3 under 7:30. Given that I can do 6:30 over 5 miles on the treadmill, I should be able to do better than this. However, my average pace over runs from 5-13 miles has dropped from 8:50 ish in February to 8:05 ish now, so things are improving. It is usually pains in my legs rather rather than bursting lungs that hold me back, so I'll look after them a bit more than I do. I fancy one of those foam roller things.

Next up, the Welsh 3000s. I wont do much running between now and then. Maybe none.

Having never used an iPod while running before, I have "discovered" them in the last few weeks. I got through the last of Neil McGregor's History of the World in 100 Objects this morning, and have moved on to his Restless Shakespeare series, with a few Great Lives (Bill Shankly, Galileo, Graham Greene) thrown in.
kbow265 - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

First time replying to this. I think the week started well but tailed off towards the end. I've done something nasty to my tendons so having a rest from indoor climbing for a bit.

Monday: 8 mile run.
Tuesday: Got the road bike back, so 38 miles to get home.
Wednesday: 25 miles (bike) and some very easy soloing.
Thursday: 2 mile fartlekky-type run.
Friday: 5 mile bike.
Saturday: Nothing as death by Powerpoint all day.
Saturday: 5 mile bike.
Exile - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Thanks for doing this week Ali.

Best efforts outdoors last year:
RP - 7a
HP - E5 6b
Boulder - V4
Onsigth E2/3,
Winter VI 6

Goals for this Spring:
Boulder V7 - tick
RP - 7a+ / 7b
HP - E6

Onsight more E3s leading to an E4 onsight.

Concentrating on 7a+ / some last minute fast weight loss at moment.

Weeks training:

M: Morning: 40min road run. Evening 40 minute road run.
T: Rest
W: Evening. 30min hill reps
T: evening. 2.5hrs climbing on Ivy League, (7a+ at Scout Scar.) Warmed up top roping it clean. First go led to third bolt and cocked up crux so weighted bolt. Second go led to third bolt and wimped out. Took some falls off from this point getting progressively further from the bolt. Then bolt to bolted it to the top. Top roped it again clean as it was going dark.
F: Evening. 40min continual traversing on 6b+ traverse - good recovery session.
S: Rest
S: 2hr1hr 30 PE traverses at wall.

No success on IL yet but feel a lot more confident about it now I've taken some falls on it and have bolt to bolted to the top. I'm actually quite enjoying the progress and as long as I make progress each session, (four sessions up to 2.5hrs at the moment,) I know it'll come in the end. This week hopefully!
Kevster - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:
Thanks Ali.

A terrible week. No climbing, no training, no exercise.
I drove past brean, in the sun too!
More of the same next week. Work, illness and other commitments don't always come climber friendly!

Look forward to hearing tales of this weekend's glorious weather, and getting on it from the rest of you!

Cheers, Kev.
biscuit - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Cheers Ali.

Not a bad week. I've done some big posts lately while i've been getting my head round the triathlon stuff. Shorter one this week as i don't need to keep the detail anymore.

M - 20k bike ride
T - weighted hangs
W - Turbo trainer and short brick run
T - Turbo trainer and long brick run and weighted hangs.
F - Weighted pull ups.
S - nothing - supposed to boulder but was cold and didn't want to drag the whole family out. I must confess to also being slightly hungover.
S - Practice triathlon

Practice triathlon today was a bit of an eye opener. It was a family day at the beach so i took the chance to have a go. Swimming in the sea ( very windy day - no one else swimming but about 50 kitesurfers ) is very hard and it was freezing and i couldn't get going without swallowing sea water. The waves were quite big so i just swam as best as i could for 20 min and got out. Bike was hard. I got a 'flash pump' in my legs after being so cold on the swim(?). Good to know that can happen and i'll take it easy for the first few hundred metres on race day. Very busy on the prom meant lots of stopping and starting so i am sure i've got a few minutes to take off that time. The run went fine but i got a stitch ! First time in about 10 yrs. Times were: Swim 20min, bike 57min, run 21min. I reckon i can still get 1hr30m on the day.

Weighted hangs are going well. 33% of bodyweight added so far. I think there's more in the tank but taking it easy for this first cycle.

No climbing this week but going to climb for 3 days next week ( Sat, Sun, Mon )so looking forward to that.

Next week:

cycle/run x 2
swim x 2
climb x 2 ( one day sport one day trad )
turbo trainer x1 or maybe 2.

Can't wait to get the tri out of the way and get some serious climbing done. But i am eyeing up a 55km ultra in October in the local mountains.
heelhookofglory - on 19 May 2013
In reply to biscuit:

How are you getting on with the turbo?
heelhookofglory - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Cheers Ali.

Gain ML(S) -- I'm filling up my logbook ready for training at the end of 2013, so get in touch if you want to get out!
Consolidate seconding experience (trad) including some mountain multi-pitch.
Lead 20 mountain multi-pitch of at least VS 4c by end of 2014.
Churnet 7A (a solid-at-the-grade is still elusive!).
Learn to ski.

If anyone is interested in how I beat, and still working with, my fear of heights and falling, I have written quite a lot about it on my blog. This post pretty much sums it up: http://www.getsomealtitude.com/fear-of-heights-conquered/ and this one adds to it: http://www.getsomealtitude.com/my-pledge/

This Week:
M: Rest
T: Nothing
W: 2x8 & 2x6 Pull Ups, 4x12 Push Ups
T: Churnet bouldering. Easy session before heading out for tea
F: Churnet bouldering. Easy session. 3x6 Pull Ups
S: Mate's stag do
S: Hangover

Nothing active done this weekend apart from walking between pubs in Manchester but it was a nice break from regular training. Hoping for a stronger week this week.
NMN - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Thanks Ali.

Running goals:
Snowdon Race - 1h 35m.
Edale Skyline - 4h.
Ben Nevis Race - 2h 20m.
Half Marathon - 1h 25m.

Get out climbing again & regularly onsighting VS / HS.
Push trad grade.
Lead a tough E1.

M: - 4.04m treadmill, 0.4% (1km speed reps off 60s).
T: - 4.04m trail run, 447ft.
W: - 4.34m hills, 2,621ft.
T: 4.03m trail run, 357ft.
F: - Stanage Popular routes.
S: - 3.38m hills, 2,112ft.
S: - 6.02m trail run, 670ft.
Daniel Heath - on 19 May 2013
In reply to biscuit:

Good effort swimming in the sea and all the rest. Sounds like hard work. Keep up the training!
biscuit - on 19 May 2013
In reply to stevemarkperry:

Much better thanks. The info helped a lot. I missed a session this week because tbh i wasn't up for it. It's just so intense. I have got the tempo up and the heart rate down and it's now sustainable but still very much in the hard training zone.

Only a week or so left of the suffering ;0)
NorthernClamberer - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali: Thanks Ali.

A mixed week for me so not the best but never mind!

STG: Get outside as much as possible (fat chance). Have the opportunity to lead as many VDiffs etc as I can find. OS 5+ outside without fear!
MTG: OS 6a. Get a solid load of trad under the belt. Lose two stone.
LTG: OS 6b. Lead HVS. Second some totally awesome multipitch.

Monday Nothing
Tuesday Pub with visiting friend I haven't seen for years!
Wednesday Archaeology talk (busman's holiday!)
Thursday Morning run. It was a lovely day so I just kept going. About 4.5 miles in about 49 mins (not sure, dropped my iPhone in the toilet)
Friday Yoga, more legs and harder work this week, followed immediately by bouldering. Felt much more supple but all the routes have changed and nothing is graded/I keep getting lost.
Saturday Archaeology for fun: http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/2013/05/19/smerquoymuckquoy-excavation-diary-entry-four/
Sunday First proper club trip of the year to Roseness. Went to piece of crag apparently explored in the 1970s by the 'Old Boys' but which has no graded climbs, topo, info or anything. I was worried that it would be hard and I'd have a crap time but actually it was really friendly and there was loads of stuff to do. Toddled up 4 leads, nothing hard but great to get some mileage. My friend was really good at following me up (soloing half the time!!!) and rating my gear. He got me climbing with twin ropes too which was new for me so lots of learning. I was glad I just bought three more cams too as the rock was a bit chossy and there weren't many good nut placements. I have no idea what grade anything I did was as it was all new and ungraded! One guy did a new HVS/E1 called Feathers and Bird Shit and my friend (TOWKWHD) put up an E1/2 5b/c called 'Space Invaders', cos the plane of rock looked a bit like a flying saucer from below.

Led Straight Up the Slab
Seconded Ian's route (?Severe)
Seconded Chossy Chimney
Backed off seconding 'Feathers and Birdshit' (HVS/E1)
Seconded Chossy Chimney again
Led My Corner (maybe I get to name it! - 'Here be Dragons')
Belayed for 'Space Invaders', refused to second (there were going to be NO TEARS!)
Had a nice traverse over the sea to check out further along the crag
Led Don's slab
Belayed for Feathers and Birdshit again, still refused to second
Led Colin's Chimney

The weather was gorgeous and I was out for about 7 hours, totally awesome!!!!

I have a few pictures here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151671121380180.1073741830.552155179&type=1&l=d5...

Ali - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali: Here they are - sorry for delay!

UKC Fit Club is not a substitute for the training diary but to use with ( or without ) it as a motivational tool for all.

For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles here:

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity, noting goals, successes and failures and to swap ideas.

Anyone interested in starting is very welcome but you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits to help achieve your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

Link to last week's (321) thread:

Daniel Heath - climbing should always be the priority ;o) Keep it up
Exile - Definitely time to get on redpoint - sounds like it'll go quite quickly! Agree that purpose of training is to make you ready for your outdoor route goals - not knackered for them
IainRUK - Lots of miles and pretty consistent pace - good work
pork pie girl - sounds like you're making consistent progress - it'll be all the more satisfying when you do do it for the effort you've put in. Think the most important thing is avoiding injury though - get the rest of the route wired then you can sort that move (having injured myself in past repeatedly working a bad move!)
mattrm - good work on the ultra! Sit back, bask in the glory and relax (and then start some climbing training next week ;o))
Kevster - Positive progress at Portland - may be begging some beta off you at some point (seeing as your Want Out beta got me the route!)
mbh - good work on getting the miles in - sounds like you maybe need a bit of motivation on the swimming front though?
NorthernClamberer - take the positives - you had a couple of good boulder sessions and successful first run out! Life/weather/partners don't always turn out the way you want but make the most of what opportunities you do have - definitely not a bad week
Sankey - knee any better?
Curious Yellow - Glad you've got your trad psyche back I did less green problems than you and was trashed - just think of the sloper strength benefits!
Needkraken - Good work on the E1! Goal ticked - onto the next one!
Si dH - Good work on brachiation dance - sounds like it may be a quick tick? Incidentally there is some climbing on Crete but I think more to the western side...when we went there some years ago tried to find one crag and ended up at a rather large barbed wire fence...
biscuit - just a thought but as you're putting a fair bit into the tri training this is probably having an effect on your climbing. I'm not sure you can focus totally on both, so maybe get the tri out the way then go back to focusing on climbing? Snakes in the water would make me jump too!
NHM - You're getting a lot of ascent in those runs - feel like you're making progress?
grubes - Not a bad week training - don't beat yourself up too much. Next time you'll latch the good hold...
Steve John B - any progress on working out goals?
Nomics4Sale - Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but take the positive, if you know you can pull on it when wet then next time there won't be any slacking!
ally smith - Frodsham is pretty highball - hope you manage to find a spotter and get it ticked. Good week considering the weekend you had before!
stevemarkperry - sounds like a nice week out - now get back on the climbing training!
maria85 - 26 routes is a good workout! Nice on the run to work too - I find once you know you can do it, its much easier to get into a routine
Eagle River - enjoy Ibiza!
useful - good work, look forward to seeing the goals...
JimmyKay - We all have bad weeks - use it as motivation to make this week better...
Luke Owens - that is a BIG core workout - impressed!
leon - rain drains everyone's motivation - any luck getting out this weekend?
seankenny - what have you done to your elbow? Tendon or bashed it? I have some exercises a physio gave me when I had issues with mine last year - drop me an email if you want and I'll try and find them...

AJM - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Cheers Ali.

Well, I'm back.

To cut a long story short, I got shut down on a lot of things. I spent too little time strength training because of the first wave of van mental, then cut out half of my proper power endurance training by a combination of van mental and getting stuck into trad instead. And I got shut down by runouts on thin tenuous moves which f*cked with my head. And the weather was mixed, to put it kindly.

So I felt good at Chateauvert, which we bailed to due to the terrible forecast and the fact some bits are basically ever dry - Frontieres du Neant felt way easier than last time I tried it, I've got a lot fitter, did it as a warmup putting clips in, and magicien d'oz was great. I had a quick go on a 7b which shredded my fingers, tried a 7a+ that was wet at the top. And I had a bunch of goes at couleurs du charme (7b+) which was ace and might have gone had I had a bit more time and it hasn't been aggravating my elbow. Managed a good link through the crux all the way to the last move, but couldn't quite it it together from the floor. So I'm probably back to a decent sort of level of fitness, it felt pretty tough and I guess it's longer and pumpier than a lot of things I've done at that grade or higher.

Ceuse I fared less well. The shoulda woulda coulda list comprises a whole host of things I tried to do and bailed on because they were too nasty or I couldn't figure out where to go or I just wasn't having fun head-wise. On the plus side I managed to sort the moves and some links on the crux of a bouldery pockety 7b+ quite quickly so I'm not super weak. And then there was lapinerie (7b), where I had an encouraging flash go (if I had had my perfect beta for how I eventually did it I could see a halfway chance of doing it) but then it was wet through rain and I never got back on it, and vagabond (7c) where I crushed the moves pretty quickly and made some ok links (hardly surprising given its a 7c with a crux that's maybe V3) but didn't have the time to acquire the fitness to make the links into a tick.

Next priorities, more trad, more training, get back on right hand man, fill out the pyramid.

IMPORTANT - am now unemployed again so have lots of free time. Any fit clubbers interested in midweek raids or prepared to tolerate a hanger on on your existing ones please give me a shout. You know the sort of stuff I'm into from my posts I guess. Hopefully those who've climbed with me before will vouch that I'm not quite as bad as all that ;)
Ali - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali: Week all a bit of a blur - need to catch up on sleep I think!

M - nothing
T - nothing
W - biscuit factory - again didn't seem to do many problems but feeling ok strength wise. Got a couple of problems done from the week before plus two (supposed) v6s so chuffed with that! Even if they were nice and crimpy... Feeling like I can't get a full session in due to busyness of wall and needing to get home at a decent time
T - ran to work - 6.5ish miles, 52ish mins - feSlt ok
F - nothing. Drinking plans cancelled
S - woke up early so went to 8.30 BMF session - felt good! Then felt uber-motivated by PPG's whip cracking last week so went to the wall (Reach). Warmed up, fingerboard then tried some problems and got spanked on v3s either the grading there is pretty stiff or I am very weak...
S - Didn't get to bed til 1am so had a bit of a lie in. Sister injured but kindly dropped me off and picked me up for a run over Winter Hill. 51mins but felt like I could have gone much longer - loved being out on the moors. So much better training than running in city

Anyone who was at Malham this weekend - conditions report? Is Something Stupid and the left side (Space Race) dry? THinking about heading up next weekend...
Joughton on 19 May 2013
In reply to AJM: Still sounds like a good week, and if not at least it's all good training! You should have looked at my logbook for Chateauverte, that Couleurs... is nails, I couldn't get near it! You'd have been better off on the 7b+ further right, though the name eludes me. Also was the 7b Transmutation?

I know what you mean about the head game at Ceuse, for starters it's a really intimidating crag, plus I found it really hard to get into the kind of mindset where I was happy to take big falls... don't know if it was because of the different climbing style, polish, or just the occasionally spaced bolt but I never performed my best there either. If you want my advice Seynes is nearly as good quality climbing, but much more friendly in terms of style, bolting and the general vibe from people.
AJM - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Joughton:

Didn't really think about it until too late - I had a quick look on 8a which didn't seem to give much clear indication for each. Pus to be honest we were limited by the seepage coming down from the main break/overhang - couleurs was dry but the other one (signe du tereau) looked like it had some damp bits.

The 7b was over by Power - elements ne font de cadeaux or something.

I enjoyed Seynes when I was there, although mainly on the easier stuff (I think there's a few photos of me in Adrian's guide). Would love to go back for some of the bigger routes on the main wall. Ill finish my unfinished business at Ceuse on the van trip next year... Hopefully then my onsighting will be a bit more on form and ill have the fitness for some of that steep cascade stuff...
Si dH - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:
Cheers Ali!

STG (spring): Onsight at least 2-3 new E2s on grit then try to get maybe 2 grit E3s done. Also do an E3 in Wales while away over Easter (possibly on slate). [DONE 2 GRIT E3S NOW AND 3 OTHERS THIS YEAR, SO CONSIDER THIS A SUCCESS]
MTG (summer): Onsight at least 3 E3s & maybe an E4 on peak limestone and at least 2 E3s further afield eg Wales or South coast. Redpoint at least 1 F7b/+ to help keep fitness levels up. [1 PEAK LIME E3 TO DATE]
LTG (autumn): Onsight another 3 E3s on grit and an E4 either on limestone or grit.

M: nothing - away with work (well, I think I did some core stuff on the floor in my hotel, but not much)
T: nothing - late back from work trip
W: nothing - wife had some bad news so looking after her
T: Bouldering at Alter Rock - not a bad session, did a few new problems and repeated a few old ones, not feeling massively strong but prett ygood mileage
F: Did some chin-ups in the morning. Work night out in the evening...
S: Resting climbing muscles but did quite a lot of general work in the garden
S: Stanage popular. Led Acheron E1, Cave Eliminate E2 (ground up after a few falls from the boulder problem start), Black Hawk Bastion E2/3 (ground up after one fall from the crux with bad beta), and Easter Rib E1 (done before). Seconded Finger Licking Good HVS, Constipation E4, Queersville HVS,. Desperation E1, and most of Guillotine E3 (fell getting stood in to the crack at th top, bit annoyed). Also soloed some old classic vdiifs - Flying Buttress, Hollybush Crack, Heaven Crack - not been there for a whle adn its easy to forget how good they are! Overall, mixed success - disappointed with the falls, I was feelign quite weak - but a couple of good routes ticked off and lots of good mileage.

Cheers, Si
maria85 - on 19 May 2013
Thanks Ali. It's not so much knowing I can do the run to work (it's only 10km, but uphill), it's the motivation to get up earlier and leave the house before 8!

Had a mediocre week, been really tired & unmotivated for some reason, felt like I was coming down with something but it hasn't materialised yet.

Bike commute every day, one way only on Fri.
M: Just biking
T: Just biking
W: Climbing barn. New routes - grading very weirdly, warmed up on blues & greens (V1-5 supposedly) and flashed several yellows (meant to be V5+), then walked round the corner and the rest of the wall is set at their usual grades. Weird. Did some blues and greens.
T: Lunchtime run (6km, slow as hell). Earl Crag, seconded Tiger Traverse (MVS) then ran away as it was soggy and freezing.
F: Just biking
S: Listened to my body and had a lie in followed by sweet eff all.
S: Troller's Gill. First time I've ever tried getting on stuff way above my grade, good to give it a go. Only did 3 laps, one on Angel Delight (7a+), 2 on Jim Grin (7a) (1 to get clips in, 1 TR). Dogged everything to hell but felt I could do 90% of the moves in isolation. Middle of Jim Grin is lovely and almost linkable, but the start and one of the top moves totally shut me down. 7a is a very very long way off if it ever happens.

In other news, I've entered the Lakeland Trails Marathon in Coniston at the start of July. No excuses for those longer runs now.

This weeks goals: Back on it, less sleeping and lounging on the couch than last week!
mattrm - on 19 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Thanks Ali

STG - Climb 6b (or v3) @ wall, 11st 10lbs
Aspirational - Climb E5/6 (London Wall), Scottish Winter V (Point 5, Zero, Minus etc), WI5, Redpoint 8a, UTMB/Lakes 100, stay injury free & maintain 11st

Weight - 12st (not sure)

M - S - Rest / Sweet FA / lots of gardening over the weekend

Did feel like I ought to have gone for a run yesterday or today. But did cut down a tree on Saturday. Going to ease back into it all next week. Then need to just get out and climb a lot over the summer. Drop a bit of weight and see how things go.

Goals for next week:
Core x 3, 1 short run, 1 climb, eat sensibly, put up finger board.

NorthernClamberer - on 19 May 2013
In reply to mattrm: Thanks for the encouragement re keeping the mix of things up and not going crazy on strength training or anything. Today I really enjoyed just being out and and placing gear. Didn't matter that the climbing was easy. I've done yoga on and off for a few years, I really enjoy it and I feel so much less stiff this week.
pork pie girl - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali: hiya everyone... last week..

-6x sessions on turbo trainer (no cycling outside due to constraints on time with things like taking mum to hospital and finishing late at the crag a couple of times.. so 45 min sessions on the turbo in the garage had to do)
- 3x core sessions
-2x weight training sessions inc usual pull ups.. started to do more locking off and holding for a few seconds for last two or three reps of pull ups (on the wide grip pull ups) and the same for every rep on seated rows
- 4x sessons at malham .. first one on tuesday night after work..went really well.. led up to the rest ledge on mescalito with rests, top roped it a couple of times aftewards and started to link a lot more.. made a decision to work on endurance on this route starting from this week. felt really good after this session on my project.. and thought about starting to work the top section. THEN IT P*SSED IT DOWN ON TUESDAY NIGHT AND WRECKED THE ROUTE!!! went backn thursday and friday .. both days route was soaked.. it started to dry out towards the end of the day but then would be just as wet the next morning. so played about upstairs.. in the sun, skin wrecked but worked hard. went back yesterday to malham.. route still soaked, upstairs again... playing on stuff that is way too hard for me right now but seeing it as training.. couldn't resist getting on mescalito in the shade even though key holds were wet, just went up to just through the second bulge so i could practice leading what i think maybe the crux move for me on red point.. managed to do it fairly quickly each time.. lots of the first 12m were wet so i was having to dry my hands between moves which was frustrating and hard to link sectiob. Did three laps on consenting to try and get pumped but it doesn't get me pumped any more.. which is how it should be i guess if it's a route i have been using as a warm up and doing it repeatedly and also if i've been doing 7c+ moves quite a bit.

definately getting stronger.. last summer i was happy if i came away with 5 ascents of the shorter (12m) routes at malham (7a-7b) and now i average about 10 ascents of 12m- 25m (7a to 7c+)i know it's not about volume but i've really noticed how much more i can climb at malham without feeling as tired.. and am able to do this 3-4 times a week...think the amount of time is paying off in some ways. just need my project to get dry again and stay dry!! dream on.. it's summer.. it rains in the UK .. will search for a project there that will stay dry.

Needkraken - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali: Thanks =) this week has been a pretty tough week with lots going on so I'm quite glad that I managed to still get 3 reasonable sessions in and didn't binge eat too much!

STG - boulder more 6a's , get more confident outdoors, keep the psyche, second whatever my friends climb & lead every session I can
MTG - 6b sport, lead S by choice, get psyche to lead routes I chose
LTG - to feel I can push myself on lead, be stronger, find routes I really want to do

M: Band
T: Binge ate malteaser's at work, felt fat did a 25 minute core session and realised I'm WEAK!
W: Indoor session, led a 6a and 6a+ clean, tried a 6b and 6c on top rope but both had short issues/couldn't work out how to climb them. Led another 6a+ but missed a hold that I couldn't quite reach and took a massive fall, finished the route on the 4+ to not be scared. Did a little bouldering and about 10 mins of core
T: lazy
F: Indoor session, all bouldering this time, flashed a couple of slab problems from the V4-6, flashed most of the easier ones I tried but wimped out of a couple of pop's for high holds. Felt like I'd had a reasonable session, cancelled it out with pizza and beer xD
S: Went over to depot, worked on a circuit harder than usual, climbed pretty hard but smashed my arm on a hold so I now have a nice graze down my forearm
S: Cursing other commitments as I sat playing on a bandstand in brilliant sunshine after a week of dodgy weather

So all in all, climbing hard enough to stay strong, wanting the weather to pick up and need to stop comfort eating!
Ally Smith on 20 May 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

Quick warning not to become a one trick pony by doing your stamina training on the project route.

Yes, it's great specific training, but the high repetition could make you susceptible to injury and you could even find that it doesn't transfer to other routes.

The rain might be a blessing in disguise; train on some other routes (quick ascent of a 7b+ maybe?) then come back and crush Mescalito!
BigHairyIan - on 20 May 2013
In reply to florence58:
> (In reply to Ali)

> Thursday: 2 mile fartlekky-type run.

I haven't heard of fartlecking since an article in ?High? back in the 80s! Is it still popular?

Ally Smith on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali:
Still haven't found a spotter for Frodsham, so that project has been out on the back burner for now.

Work has been fairly manic this week and i've lost track of exactly when i did the various sessions...

LTG (End 2013) - Unjustified at Malham & new routes on the Diamond

MTG (Spring 2013) - Build a pyramid of 8a/8a+'s and top it with an 8b or two, namely;
Melan-copout, Bad melans, Melanbeach, Para-trooper & Battle (original method) at LPT and one or two of:
Melanchollie at LPT
Insomnia at Dinbren
SUP ext at Pigeons - cruising the bottom section, just need to work out a way to do the crux which is currently very low percentage for me.
Stolen at Kilnsey

STG - minor update
- Finger re-hab; getting there
- Shoulder/elbow physio; tackling the cause of my elbow pains, not the symptoms
- Aero-power; continue to get pumped 2-3 times a week
- Continue with core and flexibility work
- Lose some weight; aim for <75kg (11st 10lb) currently stable at 75.7kg and and 6.7%

The week just gone:

M - Gym - beasted - warmed down on the treadmill. 1st pain free running for more than a year. Whoop; maybe i don't need an op after all!
T - Rest/DOMS
W - Pigeons after warming up in Cave. SUP twice, trying extension. Watched Caff do it with ease and Doylo & Pete trying their projects was fairly inspiring.
T - Rest; 11hrs at work. Blurgh!
F - Big cave session. Tweaked lat in warm-up but amazing session otherwise. Came close on Cave life short/high and repeated a bunch of stuff up to v8. Got shown a new toehook which makes Lou Ferrino pocket move much more consistent.
S - Bits and bobs of domesticity as parents visiting this week. Fixed one bike, one more to go! Pub dinner then went for wander up to Devil's gorge. Ran the 1.5miles back to car without pain - yep - ankle is feeling much better
S - Lat still sore and crags wet so don't think i missed anything by biking along Monsal trail.
deacondeacon - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Thanks for fitclub Ali

STG: get back up to E2 on limestone (by the end of the month)

MTG: E3 on any rocktype other than grit (by end of July)

LTG: 10 E4s on any rocktype (by the end of the year)

Mon-New Zealand

Tue-New Zealand

Wed-New Zealand

Thu-Few solos and repeats at Stanage.

Fri- Bouldering at the works, about half of the yellow circuit (6A-6C)

Sat-Walk round the peak with a bit of soloing at Lawrencefield

Sun - Trad at Stanage End
E1 5C The Wobbler
E1 5B The Vice
E1 5B Incursion
E2 5C Rimmington Place


I've been in New Zealand for a few weeks so been away from fitclub and tbh very little to report. Had one day of bouldering at Flock Hill which was amazing.
Glad to be back home now, didn't realise how much I'd miss climbing

I've had a bit of a change on my goals too as the grit season is pretty much over with (the midges will be here any day now) and I was pretty successful with the previous ones and don't want my climbing to get stale through the summer.

As far as this week goes I've started to get back into the swing of things (although no lime yet) and i'm pretty chuffed with onsighting The Vice, not my style at all but it felt fine and 4 E-grade routes in a day is good for me especially after virtually no climbing for three weeks.

Good to see everyone else is climbing well with lots of good progress going on.

Now bring on the lime!

Nomics4sale - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Hi Ali, thanks.

STG (Summer 2013): 7b at Malham or Kilnsey, trad E1s and look at E2.
MTG (Autumn 2013): Something good in Spain, maybe 7a flash or 7b RP.
LTG (2014): lots of E2s, maybe look at E3 and RP 7b+.

Mon: nowt
Tues: 3.5 mile Mearley Clough fell race, 366m ascent
Wed: nowt
Thurs: Kilnsey, toproped Sticky Wicket
Fri: Kilnsey, toproped Sticky Wicket
Sat: 13.2 mile fell run, 1,390m ascent, to Foel Grach and back in Snowdon.
Sun: Dinas Cromlech, Alt lead onsight VS x 3 and lead onsight Cemetary Gates, E1 5b.

Pleased to get on Cemetary Gates on Sunday. It's steady climbing so I reckon low in the grade. I didn't actually climb it but I did have a look at Left Wall on Sunday as per my STG. So that's a STG tick then .

Sticky Wicket isn't happening as quickly as I'd like. According to UKC logbook it's hard for the grade so that makes me feel a bit better.
pork pie girl - on 20 May 2013
In reply to ally smith: yes, wondered whether to get on an easier route and work that but worried about losing any gains i've made with power by going on easier stuff?

i can feel the gains i'm making on mescalito transferring onto routes

and to be honest right now i don't mind being a one or two trick pony... i want to improve endurance to get up mescalito.. for no other reason right now.. but as you've said the rain will force me onto other routes.
pork pie girl - on 20 May 2013
In reply to ally smith: how did the muscle soreness go?
Nomics4sale - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Exile:
> (In reply to Ali)

> Top roped it again clean

oops... isn't that against redpointing rules?
mattrm - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale:
> (In reply to Exile)
> [...]
> [...]
> oops... isn't that against redpointing rules?

It's redpointing, isn't the whole idea that you work the stuff out of the route (by any means necessary) to get it wired? Or have I missed something?
Ally Smith on 20 May 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:
> (In reply to ally smith) how did the muscle soreness go?

MTFU'd and went climbing, felt fine in the morning.
Nomics4sale - on 20 May 2013
In reply to mattrm:

Dunno. If you can top rope a route cleanly then you can do it and you've already got it sufficiently wired. Should have led it instead and got the red point tick.
AJM - on 20 May 2013
In reply to mattrm:

It's generally said in jest, the idea being that you should probably be on lead at a stage somewhere well before a clean link - it means you've effectively ticked the route without ticking it if that makes sense (because usually you'd only claim a tick for a lead).

The implication of the TR RP being that (tongue in cheek) you're overworking things on toprope and aren't trying hard enough on lead, or just aren't getting on lead fast enough, but in general ought to be MTFU-ing harder on the sharp end

mattrm - on 20 May 2013
In reply to NorthernClamberer:
> (In reply to mattrm) Thanks for the encouragement re keeping the mix of things up and not going crazy on strength training or anything. Today I really enjoyed just being out and and placing gear. Didn't matter that the climbing was easy. I've done yoga on and off for a few years, I really enjoy it and I feel so much less stiff this week.

:D Sounds like you had a good trad day. As for seconding the harder routes, I'd say you just need to (wo)man up and get on them. Seconding hard trad is the only way you get the endurance for leading harder.

That dig you went on looked interesting I have to say. Not done any digging for a while, well since uni, but looks cool. There's lots of good archaeology up your neck of the woods.

mattrm - on 20 May 2013
In reply to AJM & Nomics4sale:

Ok, I see what you mean.
biscuit - on 20 May 2013
In reply to mattrm:

The only thing worse is the dreaded top rope onsight !

Timely reminder to myself as i have been top roping the last couple of weeks. I'm on a 7c this weekend and i hereby publicly state i will lead and take some falls.
Luke Owens - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Cheers Ali!

Monday - Ysbyty Alltwen Boulders - Almost roadside venue near Tremadog. Great spot, 5 minutes from family caravan!
Did a handfull of easy problems 2 V0+'s, 1 V1 and 3 V2's. Tried a really steep V4 but couldn't manage it. Need to make sure I keep up the core training!

Tuesday - Rest

Wednesday - Rest (Planned to go out but bailed due to weather)

Thursday - Drove to the Eglwyseg to get back on 7b Proj at Dinbren. Heavens opened and a lightning storm appeared... Went indoors to Plas Power instead... Annoying.

10 Routes from 6a - 6b+ all first go. Bouldered to finish and repeated a V5/6 I set last year and had a few tired goes on a V6/7.

Friday - Rest

Saturday - Visiting family

Sunday - LPT and Mayfair wall - LPT is now my favorite crag. So inspiring, great climbing and an awesome spot. Top's off weather too!

Did the classic 3 star 6c "Under the Boardwalk". The top slopers were greasy in sun but managed it first redpoint. Best route of the grade I've ever done.

Completely not what I'm used to, very pumpy and steep i'm forcing myself onto these type of routes as I want to get better at steep stuff.

As we arrived at LPT late tied was coming in so got on Mayfair wall. Went straight for it on another great F6c "Contusion" placing the clips but pumped off on the lower bulge. Got back on and climbed to the top crux and buggered the sequence. Worked it all out and rested.

2nd go came off the lower bulge again, worked a different sequence using a heel hook and a deep lock off to the jug. Nice!

3rd go crushed it! Such a great day. Really happy with doing both these routes even though they're 2 whole letter grades below my max redpoint grade. I'm out of my comfort zone on steep routes and I like it!

Need to make sure I'm keeping up the Core and Feet on Campus workouts this week. They are working for sure!
Ali - on 20 May 2013
In reply to biscuit: I nearly did that once on a 7a - my excuse being that it was getting dark and there was no time for a lead attempt. I wouldn't have got on it at all if I hadn't have been incredibly frustrated at a 6hr+ round trip to crag to have spent around 4 hrs belaying and only got 2 warm up routes done...

I will try not to make the same mistake again ;-)
Eagle River - on 20 May 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

Perma-dry projects that aren't easy include raindogs (which you know already), obsession, Toadal recall is bouldery and very well bolted so good for taking falls on.

There is also Kilnsey.......
NorthernClamberer - on 20 May 2013
In reply to mattrm: Yep, I do need to Woman the F*ck Up ans second harder stuff, but yesterday I was happy enough leading easy stuff and thinking about my gear placements. I don't need to fall out with anyone about tears for a while!
Eagle River - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

Nothing for me this week. The day i went to check out the DWS option was really windy which led to a swell kicking up around the cave. Being by myself I didn't fancy the risk so have sat on my arse doing nothing instead. It'll be two weeks off by the time I climb again so that'll be hilarious/traumatic.
mattrm - on 20 May 2013
In reply to NorthernClamberer:

I probably should have clarified that with the following:

Seconding on trad climbs (as long as there's not any massive traverses) is very safe and you really don't go far when you fall off. I'm sure you know that. And judging by your indoor grades, you'll find it fairly easy anyway. Also it sounds like the routes in question are single pitch routes, which you can walk off the bottom of, so if you fail, you can just get lowered off.

If it's any consolation, I was scared ****less on my first trad second, Golden Fleece at Symonds Yat. Really thought my end was nigh. I remember the first bit being easy. But there's a crux about 2/3rds of the way up just off a small ledge. I couldn't work it out and really got very scared. Not quite crying, but not far off. It's probably something that's not appreciated enough once you've climbed a bit. That it's still really scary sometimes. So don't be worried about being scared, climb with someone you trust and accept the fear. It's half the fun. I'm very sure you can do it! A lot of my first year of climbing was spent getting very scared in stupid situations. It sounds like you climb with an experienced bunch of climbers so at least you won't end up in bad/dangerous situations.
NorthernClamberer - on 20 May 2013
In reply to mattrm: I think I'm still scarred from the incoming tide stuck at the bottom of a sea cliff debacle! Ha ha ha.
mattrm - on 20 May 2013
In reply to NorthernClamberer:
> (In reply to mattrm) I think I'm still scarred from the incoming tide stuck at the bottom of a sea cliff debacle! Ha ha ha.

Been there, done that. Yeah, that's pretty crap. I'd imagine you've probably done more sea cliff stuff than I have already. But for a tidal sea cliff, I always now take a small rescue/rope ascending kit when seconding. which is:

2x120cm slings
2X60cm slings
two prussiks
Petzl Mini Traxion + screwgates for setup, 3 iirc)
Belay device and screwgate
headtorch (Petzl e-lite) - mainly for afterwork/evening climbing

Ok, not so small. But well worth considering taking. And having a chat with your leader before you set off about what you'll do if it all goes wrong. Seems silly, but trying to frig something when it's all gone wrong is much harder, especially if you can't talk to them.

I did get stuck on a HVS at Ogmore last year and it wasn't much fun prussiking up a rope which my leader was just locking off. Also it's well worth considering 'french free' when getting up a climb quickly if the tide is coming in / light is going.

JayK - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

M- Can't remember? Core?!
T- Bouldering down the wall. Extended 3hour session. PE and Endurance session. Followed this by circuits of v4 with press-ups between problems. About 200 in total?
W- 6K in 24mins. Followed by a 1km strava segment in 3:36. Core work, planks and sit-ups.
T- Buffet dinner followed Great Gatsby! Nothing but fat and laziness this evening!
F- Football.
S- Rest
S- Dinbren. Still massively depsyched by elite syncopations. After falling off the top 2years ago and then hold breaking I've been unable to climb the start. Bouldered the start with a friend for 3hours. Finally worked out some absolutely amazing beta. I find the top OK now so I'm hoping this will go next visit when I'm fresh.

I am literally so psyched about the whole process on Elite. I was ready to sack it off on Saturday again but persisted as a friend was climbing it. Managed to get the craziest heel hook beta I've ever come up with (proper Dave graham eat your heart out). I knew I could work something out (it's limestone bouldering for god sake!) That route is going down.

If anyone fancies Dinbren next week (any day) I am keen.
mrchewy - on 20 May 2013
In reply to NorthernClamberer: I got utterly wiped out by a wave two weeks ago - three times in the end before I could get climbing. I was way above the sea too. Battered the hell out of me, burst something in my hip - one of the most painful physio sessions ever!
Finally got climbing again yesterday after two weeks and had a bit of a mare to be honest - felt weak, head was wrong and there wasn't a coastline within a hundred miles. Climbing is a funny game. It's way more mental than I ever imagined.
Exile - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Nomics4sale:

pork pie girl - on 20 May 2013
In reply to biscuit: we'll hold you to that

pork pie girl - on 20 May 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

much better week.. a gold star for you and a packet of tangtastics...
pork pie girl - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Eagle River: how the hell to do rock over on your left leg on the crux of toadal? would i be allowed to screw a hold on for my right foot so i have something else to push off? i use the two finger hold of uselessness to help pull myself over then go for the stuck on hold and i'm about 2cm short of the tw*tting thing.

have you seen the video on you tube of someone climbing it?

ER.. you beast!
mattrm - on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

One other thing, is the Malham weekend still on? I have a pass from the wife. I've checked and if I buy a ticket soon, it'll cost 50 to get up to Leeds.

Can anyone pick me up from Leeds? Or I can get to Skipton, which seems near? But not till quite late, 2100-2200.

Or is anyone travelling up from Bristol, as I can get there quicker.
useful on 20 May 2013
In reply to Ali: Thanks Ali!
A quick summary of last week:
13/5 M 55' run around Wepre Park (Ewloe Castle) - good random core stuff (uneven ground & terrain). Calf muscles didn't hurt afterward this time! Good result.
14/5 Tu Sport climbing @ Ty Newydd, Dyserth (http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=17351): Most This stuff was way to hard for me to lead, so I settled for working some routes confidently on Top Rope. Made it to the top of "Wild Garlic" 6b cleanly, then spent the rest of the evening trying to work out "Girls will perform" 6b. Made 2 dogged ascents of it, where the crux just clicked (finding the invisible crimp is key!). Worked it out, so considering a return visit to Lead it.
15/5 W A quick 30' run to Ewloe Castle and back because going to see Star Trek film with work colleagues.
16/5 Th It looked like rain, so I went to Prestatyn Sports Centre with the express aim of doing circuits on a long overhanging V1 route I knew was there. Managed 2.5 circuits twice, and also did a few other Vb/V1/V2 routes for fun. Happy with the results, 1.5 hours climbing in all.
17/5 F Nothing
18/5 Sa 4 hours of driving, followed by 4 hours of karting at a Stag Do. Wow, that really works the arms and shoulders! :D Oh, and came 3rd in the GP (competitive streak exercised).
19/5 Drive back to Gwynedd, then went for a 1h 10' run around the hills behind Bethesda. Lovely to be out in the sun and fresh air, so much so that I sat down and had a power nap near a disused quarry to the sound of water trickling over the rock! :D So really only about 45' running...
Ok, I've avoided goals for a while. These are the last ones I can find, from way back on UKCFC317:
STG: Get outside this week onto some rock and attack a familiar 6a or two;
STG: Back onto dieting properly (instead of coasting)
STG: More Trad practice at sub-HVS 5a and below in prep for May's Pembroke Trip (was MTG)
MTG: Learn to trad lead: on track.
LTG: On-sight Leading E2 5c, 6B sport outside, 6C sport inside (revised targets).

First, let's get it out of the way: Diet. I've been looking at BF% graphs, and I'm on the low end of "normal" (16%) for my age group (40-49 - yes, I know :o ) and gender. So I'm not going to worry too much about that as I'm the leanest I've been since I was rowing 20+ hours a week in 1998! So the goal here is maintenance: continue to eat healthily and maybe exercise/train a bit harder to lower that number, but it's not a deal breaker.
So that brings the next bit: Strength & Fitness. I know there's no benefit in just bulking up for climbing, so I'm going to try to find routes that I can work. Finger strength is a worry having had 2 minor pulls in the past 6 months, but as long as I tape them, they're ok. I'm aware that climbing-specific fitness benefits can best be achieved either by bouldering circuits or in the gym. The only downside is that this will go to pot if the weather improves and I'm climbing with partners again. Oh, the conundrum...!

Let's get to climbing! Outdoors: My rock-reading has improved over the past month, so confidence is good. I am climbing sometimes with "Leader Never Falls" old-world tradders, which isn't good for trusting gear, but I do have bolder climbing friends too (old AND bold). I am very aware that I'm quite bold in my trad leading, often putting in less gear than I maybe should. But after seeing a very experienced friend happily fall on a single cam when we did World's End about a month ago, I need to at least build up to resting on gear between moves. I also learned a lot about "protecting the move" in Pembroke, which made the whole trad experience more enjoyable, so that will come with experience.
So I think that makes my new goals:
STG: Maintain Body Fat percentage.
STG: Nurse the finger (TAPE) but not too much
STG: Actually use the Beastmaker properly when on my "Being a Dad" weekends.
MTG: Include Body Weight/Strength circuits at least once a week.

STG: Lead 6b doggedly outdoors (best last year was 6a+ dogged onsight, Llanddulas Cave).
MTG: Regularly lead around HS-VS to broaden experience & gain confidence in placements and ability.
MTG: Lead 6b outdoors, clean repeat.
MTG: Lead E2 5b in good style.
LTG: Lead E2 5c doggedly (hopefully this year).
LTG: Lead 6b clean onsight (probably not this year).

Too much? Feedback appreciated...
useful on 20 May 2013

> Weight is going well. 63.8 kg this morning. 13.6% fat (fat fluctuates a lot)

WRT Fat, I find that I'm heavier with a lower BF% in the evening, but lighter with a higher BF% in the morning. I put this down to the fact that these scales work on the principle that fat conducts less than muscle, and being better-hydrated is likely to return lower BF%. As long as you measure consistently though, then you'll get a good guide to improvements.
useful on 20 May 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:
> ...and a packet of tangfastics...
The _only_ fuel to get 7yo children up mountains! :D

useful on 20 May 2013
In reply to stevemarkperry:
> If anyone is interested in how I beat, and still working with, my fear of heights and falling, I have written quite a lot about it on my blog. This post pretty much sums it up: http://www.getsomealtitude.com/fear-of-heights-conquered/ and this one adds to it: http://www.getsomealtitude.com/my-pledge/

Nice posts, Steve. I forwarded them onto a walking friend who is facing similar challenges. Thanks for writing them (and writing them so well, too).
mrchewy - on 20 May 2013
In reply to useful: I'm a similar age, fatter and have onsighted the only 6a I've tried to lead. Have bouldered V3 outdoors and led my first VS 4c at Pembroke when you were there.

So you're targets for me are quite interesting. I'll be happy with a 6b lead this year but want to get on a 7a. Trad-wise, I wanted get E1 5b done, there's a couple I've seconded that I know I can do... however, having had my arse whipped on a couple of routes lately, my focus has changed in that I now realise, even if I got a couple of E1s done, I'd not be an E1 climber at all.

Your MTG of E2 5b this year but LTG of 6b onsight next year seems the wrong way round to me - if you've already dogged a 6a+, then a 6b onsight isn't far away. From VS to E2 would be a much sketchier jump but doable if you pick the right routes (and probably what I'll do for that E1 I want). I've only seconded a couple of E2s and a handful of E1s tho, you may have way more experience than me.

I had a look at The Kracken at St Govan's Head, Pembroke... E1 5b and to be honest, it scared the shit out of me, I really struggled to imagine leading that, ever. I'd seconded Deranged (E2 5c) not two days before as well.

Good to see you set your goals high tho - nothing ever gets done if we don't set the bar high.

Daniel Heath - on 20 May 2013
In reply to useful:

You're right, it varies much and the best way is too keep the variables the same. It's actually keeping me more hydrated as I make sure I drink plenty before bed, so that the morning reading is the same each day.
Daniel Heath - on 20 May 2013
In reply to useful:


nice goals. If you TR a 6b clean and worked the moves of another, then you know you have E2 5c in you as they're physically comparable :P (don't know why you plan to dog it though!)

It sounds like it's just movement confidence and experience in the way of your goals. Not much to say other than keep climbing. Stamina training is great in my opinion, but I would still prioritize climbing outdoors given the choice.

I agree with "protecting the move". That clicked with me doing easy multipitch. It feels reckless at first when you think that most of your time is spent above a simply horrible fall potential, but you learn your limits over time and move in and out of soloing mentality on the easy and hard bits. I combined this with being increasingly bold at the start of routes:

Rather than thinking "mustn't deck" the whole time I started to risk different levels of injury on different ground. Eg(arbitrarily):

risk twisting an ankle (climbing 3 metres before gear) - 5a move
risk breaking an ankle - 4b move
risk breaking legs or death (climbing several metres before gear) - 4a move

Not sure if this makes sense but I hope it does...
Steve John B - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Ali: thanks Ali.

Goals: back into running. Looking at a marathon late in the year but will see how I get on (probably not then if history is anything to go by)

M -
T -
W -
T - 3 mile run
F - 3 mile run, aborted after 2 miles as felt like an injury waiting to happen
S -
S - no weekend run, stiff as hell from 12 hours gardening
Luke Owens - on 21 May 2013
In reply to useful:

> STG: Lead 6b doggedly outdoors (best last year was 6a+ dogged onsight, Llanddulas Cave).
> MTG: Regularly lead around HS-VS to broaden experience & gain confidence in placements and ability.
> MTG: Lead 6b outdoors, clean repeat.
> MTG: Lead E2 5b in good style.
> LTG: Lead E2 5c doggedly (hopefully this year).
> LTG: Lead 6b clean onsight (probably not this year).
> Too much? Feedback appreciated...

What do you mean by "doggedly"? I wouldn't aim to dog a route. Just use this as a process to learn the moves on a route.

You top roped Wild Garlic clean on Tuesday that's a technical 6b where as Girls Will Perform is more on the arms an pumpy. So it would seem you perform better on the techy stuff. If your aiming for a 6b tick go back and lead Wild Garlic or choose another techy one somewhere.

There are plenty of good routes around this grade in that area.

I'm good friends with Alex, I can see you've climbed with him a few times. I've given him some tactics on working routes and redpointing and he knows his stuff, ask him for some advise. Some routes i'd aim for up that way are:

Ralarwdins - 6b+ (Llanddulas) - Pumpy
Flowstone Shuffle - 6b+ (Pen Head) - Pumpy/Techy
The Quarrywoman - 6b+ (Pen Head) - Pumpy
The Cakewalk - 6b+ (Castle Inn) - Technical

P.C Wimpout - 6b (Llanddulas) - Technical

Blitzy's Jug - 6a+ (Pen Head) - Pumpy

There are some great 6b+'s about and you'd be suprised if you got on them. I'm sure people like Alex would be happy to put a top rope up for you on them!

Aim high!
Ally Smith on 21 May 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

> If anyone fancies Dinbren next week (any day) I am keen.

This week, or next? Keen for the latter (28th to 31st May) and would like to know the beta options for Elite Syncopations...

Luke Owens - on 21 May 2013
In reply to JimmyKay:

Good man! Effort on Elite! The way of the lime... There's always other beta!
Ali - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Ali: Any suggestions from anyone on where may be good to climb this weekend? Original plan was Malham/Kilnsey but forecast is rubbish...second plan was Pembroke but forecast just turned for there as well. Please someone throw me some nice weather??!
Luke Owens - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

North Wales forecast looks good
pork pie girl - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Ali: what forecast are you looking at? looks ok for weekend
Ali - on 21 May 2013
Ali - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Ali: Do I need to find a different weather forecast?!
pork pie girl - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Ali: i use the malham wethaer station one.. just google that. i find it quite good... it often cheers me up and i;ve never turned up at malham thinking the forecast was way off
mattrm - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

It's supposed to be dry on the Gower this weekend. Hardly a world class venue, but there are some nice crags. Sunny on Saturday and overcast on Sunday/Monday.
AJM - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

I don't really believe anything detailed for the weekend yet (even Saturday is day 5 of the forecast!) but the met office long range guesstimate is for an east west spit with the west getting the better of it.

I seem to be in Cardiff on Saturday afternoon anyway so am thinking South Wales gives me best options. Plus I've a pembroke ticklist a mile and a half long! Crispin and Tom might be there too.
useful on 21 May 2013
In reply to Daniel Heath: Good point. I'm trying to get away from the coffee and onto more water this week (too many fuzzy heads in the evening/weekends!).
NorthernClamberer - on 21 May 2013
In reply to mrchewy: It was fine and I suppose I knew I would get out of there somehow but as a sea kayaker, I know enough about that particular bit of coast to realise that if I went in I would die. Being tossed against the rock by the waves sounds horrible, I hope you are OK. I suppose your body is just telling your head that it doesn't want to get hurt again but it'll come good. I'm sticking to sea cliffs with escape routes from now on. Or I'm bringing my boat.
useful on 21 May 2013
In reply to Luke Owens: Thanks Luke. I find I climb really well when with Alex, and it's his "fault" that I've even tried 7a at the Beacon (with the subsequent 6m "flight" ).

By "doggedly" I mean that I'll do what I can, but be happy to rest on the rope while I improve my rock reading. The alternative would be to only try routes that I thought I could clean onsight. The "doggedly" is more my headspeak for "Give it a go"/"Just DO IT, MAN!!" rather than settling for stuff I know I can do clean.

Yep, I just need to find the routes. Had that problem in Kalymnos: All the 5c routes we tried were shocking, only to find out from everyone else that the 6a routes were delightful! :D
useful on 21 May 2013
In reply to Daniel Heath:
(And others)
Thanks all for the feedback. This one specifically resonates: Indoors I'm very happy to "fly" and climbing above the gear isn't a problem. The higher up the wall I am, the safer I feel, regardless of how high above the last bolt/wire.
I've had some big falls indoors when attempting 6c/7a routes, just about to clip then had to drop the rope then let go, with good belay buddies that I can trust. The more vertical the route, the happier I am.
I've seconded the odd E1 (5a Combat Wall at Dinorwig, 5b The Dog at Maeshafn), so physically have the ability for select climbs at that adjectival grade. So I set the E2 grade because I think that the boldness isn't what affects me, rather than the tech grade (I have done 5b, but not consistently), and in particular the kind of technical move: I'm rubbish at thin finger jams, but fairly happy with fists, bridging overhangs and making powerful moves.

It's only my second year of climbing, so I'm seeing how I can push my limits!
useful on 21 May 2013
In reply to useful: Sorry: Meant Ceba E1 5b at Pot Hole (Dogged), not the Dog!
useful on 21 May 2013
In reply to mrchewy:
Thanks, K.
I'm looking to spend more time on Trad rather than sport, and on the Limestone around here, that largely means polished finger cracks, which I'm not very good at... The tech grade 5b is within my physical ability, if on the limit of my confidence.
Also, by 6b onsight, I mean clean and without beta. Generally I need/get hints and a rest or two to think about it! Maybe should update goals with with/without beta, etc... ;) Although a clean, beta-less onsight of Route 2 at Castle Inn (6a) was driven purely by my need to retrieve my gear before the sun set. No one else was going to!
Eagle River - on 21 May 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

this video?


I do it fairly similar but that guy makes it look much easier. I think he's pretty strong. I don't clip from the "rest", but from the hold next to the bolt after the "rest" then don't clip in again until on the crimps next to each other out left so missing out one bolt and clipping the next by my shin (exciting!).

As with anything I've climbed, I'd be happy to go through it move by move for you ;-)
thebigfriendlymoose - on 21 May 2013
In reply to Eagle River:

I think he does the first hard moves differently to you He seems to match on the tufa and climb it direct; you gastoned off the tufa with your right-hand and lunged leftwards (unless you were giving me bad beta for your own perverse reasons!). All a bit shouldery and squashed for me - I need more talent, shorter legs, and a trap/deltoid transplant before bothering again myself.
Eagle River - on 21 May 2013
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

Yep, he crosses over to the good hold on the right with his left hand, missing out the hold I used out left. That didn't occur to me so it might be a taller persons method.

He cruises the crux though, I was hanging on for dear life at that point so it's hard to compare beta with someone that much better!
pork pie girl - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Eagle River: i go right under the tufa and climb it direct as can't get feet right if i use a gaston on with my right hand on the it first.. i think my way adds on a few more moves which is grim.

send me the beta ER.. the probelm with this route is the move that i can feel great but the move from the greasy gaston with the right hand into the stuck on hold wity the left hand feel impossible... i was talking to someone on sundat who said they push off with their right foot to help them rock over onto the left

trhe bloke in the video looks really solid .. strong git! i sound like i'm giving birth on that bulge!!

i figured when i get back on mescalito the holds will feel massive in comparison...
biscuit - on 22 May 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

This is very much do as i say not do as i do but....

rockovers are all about momentum. If you try and pull yourself over with your hands you will be onto a loser. The movement has to start from a push with the feet ( or a swing of the hips ) and carry the momentum through to the end. A lot of people end up stuck in the middle as they reach the point where their weight is evenly balanced between both feet, or is all over the target foot, and they don't carry on going to be able to stand up and grind to a halt.

As i say i talk a good game on this one and am rubbish at them.
pork pie girl - on 22 May 2013
In reply to biscuit: i can't oush off my right foot to rock over onto my left foot as my right leg is just dangling abiout doing nothing .. so i'm pulling like mad with my arms.. then i stop half way through... not sure about the swing with the hips bit as i haven't been aware of doing that before.. but i'll try it... i'm at my desk now practising swing mt hips.. whilst sitting on my exercise ball. looks really attractive i bet
JayK - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Ally: It's small man beta, as that's how I usually climb. Allows you to get to the hold by the second draw statically and rather easily (rather that it being a massive reach)

I may be getting a ferry over to luxembourg Sunday-Friday but would be free either sat or sun this weekend or next depending on weather (currently looks good)
heelhookofglory - on 22 May 2013
In reply to biscuit:

Good stuff matey, keep it up!
biscuit - on 22 May 2013
In reply to pork pie girl:

Ha ha ! A great image in my head.

It's a Dave Mac thing from 9 out of 10 climbers. Moves with momentum are pretty much always easier than static - especially when 'safe' on a sports route.

Your centre of gravity is in your hips for most people and if you can't generate momentum from elsewhere an arm throw, head butt or hip throw can all generate the momentum you need to make that extra bit of distance and latch the hold with the generated deadpoint.

As you start the move concentrate on starting the move by throwing your hips in the direction you want to go and in towards the wall so your hips should touch the wall at the point you get to the hold. Moving in closer to the wall gets you nearer to a hold and if you can't get higher then getting in closer can sometimes make the difference.

Sink down before starting the move so you have room to generate the momentum and as you throw from the hips and get higher/across it's influence will wane, take the movement over in your left ankle by toeing down and pulling in with your toe. As you get higher again the influence of the ankle diminishes and concentrate on finishing the move with your left knee exploding straight and then continuing up through your back until your back is arched and at full extension. Think tall and finishing like a dancer finishing a move.

ANYTHING you can get with your right leg will make it a lot easier even if it's a shite smear.

So have all that in your head whilst on a route at your max and when you've done that it should be easy ;-)
leon on 22 May 2013
In reply to Ali:
STG: No top roping below 6c+.
MTG: 2*E2s, 1*6c(done) & 2*7a by end of May.
LTG(2013): 7a+*1, 7a*4. 34e points.
VLTG(2015?): Classic e5 (Positron?, Right Wall?)

Falls: 0(0)
Focus: Strength(2/3)
Key weaknesses: Spotting sequences. Repertoire of moves. FoF, using core to reduce strain on fingers (maybe), not search for the best sequence when redpointing.

Mon: Bouldering indoors (max V7).
Tue: Push-ups(112), Pull-ups(61), Back(weights). Core.
Wed: Arc(30 mins). Repeaters. 4x4(V3,V3,V3,V3).
Thu: Core.
Fri: Shoulders & Arms(Weights).
Sat: Arc(30 mins). Repeaters. Steep wall lock-offs.
Sun: Hobsonmoor Quarry (max HVS).

I got out for a few hours thanks Ali. Though it does seem that in general the rain coincides with my climbing time. grrrrrrrrrrrr

A great week on the training front, even pot a PB on the fingerboard! Probably thanks to PPG shaming us with her 5am starts & midnight finishes.

Real shame about Sunday. I had a few hours at Hobsonmoor quarry. Eventually got on an e2 6a that now seems to be e3 6a in all the guides, I bailed at the crux. I couldn't convince myself I knew the moves, still surprised I didn't try given the fall was short & safe. Top roped to get the gear & had the same fear on the crux, that I was going to fail, so backed down to a rest position. I then did the crux quite easily. The difference was that I took my time moving into the moves, giving myself the space to think. Normally on grit I try to understand all the crux moves before starting the sequence & then fire them off automatically as quickly as possible. I still think this is primarily a commitment issue but I think this solution will help in the future. Anyway I got home & was really sick & am still recovering. Not sure if this is a physical reaction to my disgust at myself for yet again failing to man up to an e3.

I was wondering about practice falling whilst on a shunt. Maybe rig a figure of eight half way up the rope clip into this when you get to it, remove the shunt & fall desired distance. Should work right?

Changed the STG based on recent thread comments, need to go further but its a start. Probably no training next week due to sickness & holiday.
Si dH - on 22 May 2013
In reply to leon:
Dont beat yourself up too much about backing off that route. Leading tech 6a on trad is hard even with good gear.
Re: your goal though, if youre strong enough to.be attempting trad 6a and have climbed sport 7a (?) then why top rope at all below your absolut max? Surely you could bolt to bolt 6c+ fairly easily?
Joughton on 22 May 2013
In reply to leon: I took that very same fall last year, it's a pretty committing sequence! Definitely worth E3...

I had a pretty similar situation today, feeling absolutely disgusted with myself. I'd been psyching myself up for Tales of Yankee Power at High Tor for the last few weeks and I finally got there today. The crux section is where you place a nest of bomber runners before running it out past some really thin, insecure climbing on little pockets to a big thread with a hold next to it. When my feet got level with the wires I started getting really shaky, my feet were all over the place and I was climbing terribly, and by the time I reached the thread I was about to peel off. To reach the hold I would've had to pop about a foot higher, but I didn't have it in me, so what did I do? I grabbed the big thread in front my face instead of going for the hold (which turned out to be a jug) and possibly taking the fall. What an idiot - just gave away an absolute classic by being a wimp!

The climbing wasn't even that hard, my head just wasn't in it... sorry, looks like needed to get that off my chest!
mrchewy - on 22 May 2013
In reply to Joughton: Shocking Jake! You'll never stay in the world top 10 climbing like that. Shame on you. ;-)
Kevster - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Joughton:
Group hug, trouble as you get better and better is the difference between a good and bad day can become the smallest of things. Would you trcomend it as a route?
AJM - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Kevster:

You abb down past it (vaguely, didn't look at exact line) on the way down from the old belay on Original Route - that whole wall looks awesome.
Ally Smith on 23 May 2013
In reply to Kevster:

Every route I've done on that wall at high tor has been excellent. I think Jake was just psyched out though, as i found the pockets pretty steady and not much of a reach to the thread/jug (disclaimer; might be my 6'1" height advantage).

Certainly easier to read than the top section of Supersonic which really did get me gripped!
Joughton on 23 May 2013
In reply to Kevster: I'd recommend going to High Tor and working your way up, starting with Darius, moving on to Flaky Wall, then either Supersonic or Tales would probably be a good first E5 O/S.

A lot of people seem to think Supersonic is harder, but I just found it more sustained than Tales, Tales seemed to have a much harder section. Supersonic has very well protected hard bits only a little way above gear (the start, and the Flaky Wall crux) then a big run out on much easier climbing above (about 5c). Whereas I found that Tales had a pretty decent runout on the 6a bits, which really psyched me out as Ally says.

Though to be fair I can't really compare them because I did Supersonic at the end of a very long trad climbing season towards the end of last summer, where I'd been doing a lot of fairly serious routes on limestone, working my way up from easier routes. However Tales was only my third limestone trad route of the year (the first two being earlier that day), and the first bold route, so I really wasn't in the right mindset to be climbing serious hard trad routes. Which is why I recommended working your way up - it makes all the difference.
Ally Smith on 23 May 2013
In reply to Joughton: Sound advice; Reproduction should be next on the "to do" list. Nothing harder or more run-out than Tales, just slightly wiggy gear and pretty damn sustained!
Joughton on 23 May 2013
In reply to ally smith: Yeah the plan is to spend some time getting back into the swing of things, just starting small and working my way back up to where I was last summer in terms of my head, probably head down to Chee Tor and get on the classic E4s. Then when I feel confident again I'm gonna go back up to High Tor and get back on Tales; think it should feel fine now I know I can do the moves, and I know the hold next to the thread is good enough to 'go for'.

Yeah Reproduction does look amazing, just looking at it from the ab down from Tales made me scared though - looks a very blank and lonely lead. More tempted by Bastille to be honest, it looks more my style, plus it's got bolts which is always a winner...
leon on 23 May 2013
In reply to Si dH:
You might be right. To be honest I haven't done much sport red pointing & it's all be done by top-roping first. I probably should try bolt to bolting higher grades. I'll give it a go & see how I get on.
leon on 23 May 2013
In reply to Ali:
I guess that pretty much puts it in perspective. I tend to find that when I get psyched out I think I always get psyched out when in reality its more likely good & bad days for it.
Daniel Heath - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Joughton:

Don't worry mate. I can list countless examples where me or a friend have performed far below our expectations. After my first 7b+ in Spain I fell off the only 6c+ at the whole crag. Then remember Adam Ondra fell off La Marie Rose in Font. We set our standards by our best efforts, but we're all capable of weak efforts as well!
Daniel Heath - on 23 May 2013
In reply to leon:

Not considered falling practice on a shunt. To be honest I think I'd be quite hesitant doing something like that (or any falling practice) and I don't think you want to reinforce the habit to be hesitant.

Personally I got more falling confidence by focusing on the climbing rather than the falling. Because when you do fall off you tend not to notice until you hang on the rope. I suppose this advice might not be helpful as it sounds like "just do it", but I think focusing on the falling might hold you back.

Anyway don't worry, just get on another E3, then another... ;)
mrchewy - on 23 May 2013
In reply to Daniel Heath: Two cracking replies there Dan - thanks.
JayK - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Daniel Heath:

I think that is where bouldering really helped me. I got used to just thinking about the climbing and putting my all into every effort. So when if I fell off it was because I couldn't do the move. Not that I was panicking about the exposure. (Hence why I often run things out - probably bite me on the arse one of these days.)
mattrm - on 24 May 2013
In reply to Ali:

mrchewy - the getting battered by the sea cliff thing sounds proper grim.

northernclamberer - you'll be a sea cliff expert soon enough and it'll all come together.

I know I've asked this before but:

"One other thing, is the Malham weekend still on? I have a pass from the wife. I've checked and if I buy a ticket soon, it'll cost 50 to get up to Leeds.

Can anyone pick me up from Leeds? Or I can get to Skipton, which seems near? But not till quite late, 2100-2200.

Or is anyone travelling up from Bristol, as I can get there quicker."
pork pie girl - on 26 May 2013
In reply to biscuit: i've wrote this on the back off both hands for whilst i'm on route ;o)

seriously though.. that's useful.. i've noticed that my climbing has generally got more dynamic after bouldering indoors over the winter... but on very very hard moves i seem to be going back to just being static.. and trying to pull too much with my arms. thanks for the tips

heelhookofglory - on 26 May 2013
In reply to useful:

You are more than welcome. I hope your friend gains something from them, too. The important lesson that I have learned is that it is ever on-going and that some fear is healthy as it makes you check things and keeps you safe. Anything more than that, however, can be inhibiting.
Ali - on 27 May 2013
In reply to mattrm: Sorry can't help you - the weekend I think you went for was one of the ones I couldn't do! Though super psyched for Malham at the moment so hoping to get up again in a few weeks

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