/ Running Knee Problem

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Sam Simpson - on 19 Jun 2013
I think i have been over doing since my fellsman and find it increasingly hard to run down hill. I am usually quite able and strong on downhills. But at the moment I am running like I am an old man (iam only 27) and finding it hurts even when walking down from crags with my climbing gear. I am going to the Alps in a months time to train for the CCC, we are doing a few tours at our own pace. Obviously I want to be completely injury free at this point in time. I guess rest is the best thing. The pain is just below the knee. I am going to get a sport message I think any other solutions other than rest? I guess I use my bike to keep up cardio. I have self diagnosed it to be the famous runners knee. Any help from Ukcs runners?
kevinknights - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson: Patella tendon? Fat pad beneath it inflamed (I've had that, renders downhilling impossible). Go see a sports physio pronto.
Simon Caldwell - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to kevinknights:
> Go see a sports physio pronto.

+1

Could be all sorts of things, ranging from trivial to serious.
Bergvagabunden - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson: suffered similarly a few months ago ( I'm 46 ) after training hard - yes , rest is essential . However , I visited a Chiropractor ( McTimmony ) as the problem wouldn't go away completely - it's made a massive difference , knee problem pretty much gone . Often , these problems come from misaligned skeleton .

IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Bergvagabunden:
> (In reply to samsimpson) suffered similarly a few months ago ( I'm 46 ) after training hard - yes , rest is essential . However , I visited a Chiropractor ( McTimmony ) as the problem wouldn't go away completely - it's made a massive difference , knee problem pretty much gone . Often , these problems come from misaligned skeleton .

thats the issue.. don't just rest.. all you do is let the pain go away, inflammation goes down.. but when you do the same training it will come back unless you get the underlying issue dealt with.

It can be anything in or around the knee.. you get lots of deffered pains in the knee too, yet the issue could be another area. so see a good physio.. osteopath..
wbo - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson: You'd better check if you've changed anything, or what you're doing more of.
2. Things - aging shoes can do this if you're doing a lot of road.
2 If you've upped your bike usage a lot that can be an issue, so check your position on the bike.

I assume you're good with stretching?
Skol on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson:
Hi,
I'm a physio and urge you to get this looked at.
Given that you did a long distance event and it now hurts on hills it could be several things, and impossible to diagnose on this site.
If its the tendon below your knee cap, it could be patella tendinitis/osis, which takes a good time to settle even with rest and strengthening to prevent further overloading .
If its the bony nob which this attaches too at the top of the shin, it could be an avulsion or stress fracture.
I would either go GP or straight to physio. Whichever course you take, keep off the hills and the bike for a bit, ice it, stretch the quads properly and ? NSAIDS I you're allowed to take them?
True, biomechanics may be a factor, but the distance you covered especially if you didn't train properly,could give you this problem anyway.
Don't, leave it, go as soon as poss get a diagnosis and proper treatment and the sooner it will be sorted!
Cheers. Skol
Skol on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to Skol:
Oh yeah:
Positive things to do.
1. For cardio ,swimming freestyle not breaststroke, and don't push too hard from the side using unaffected leg
2. Check your proprioception, with one legged balance on each leg. You may find the affected is not as good. If it doesn't hurt a few mins on each leg per day. Start with arms out by your side. As you improve, progress arms across chest, arms out standing on a cushion, arms across ches t on a cushion, arms out no cushion eyes closed etc( in a place where you can safely correct loss of balance)

3. Check shoes and get an opinion from a running shop with bio mechanical assessment( or orthotist preferably)
4. Get a bike shop to assess your position
5. Use exercise bike or road bike on the flat at a higher cadence with easy gearing if it doesn't hurt
6. Google static quads exs and perform these regularly to maintain neuromuscular function, as pain allows
If properly rested and its soft tissue, 3-6 weeks should allow some return to reduced activities. Get hands on opinion first though
climb the peak - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson: GO TO A PHYSIO NOW!
You'll regret it so much if you don't get it looked at as soon as possible, speaking from personal experience here.
I've got patella tendonosis at the moment. It's been ten weeks since I realised I had it but most likely 4-5 months since I started doing the damage. If running down hills, STOP RUNNING DOWN HILLS, it hurts for a reason, running down hills will only make it worse. Go to a physio, or a chiropractor to find out what the underlining problem is. Either your overtraining, you've got a bio mechanical problem, or it's a bit of both.
For me I think the main problem is having fallen arches, I was training for what would have been my first marathon while at the same time seriously getting into cycling and a long cycle ride brought all the problems out into the open.

In the meantime do stuff to keep yourself active, I find climbing easyish routes is all right as long as I don't jump/fall of boulder problems. Also swimming is great, I've really gotten into it since I havn't been able to run or cycle for a while. (with swimming look at proper technique to make sure you don't bugger your shoulder, It happened to me but it's sorted now).

Good look and I hope you make a swift recovery
climb the peak - on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson: Oh and get a foam roller, there great for loosening quads, which was another of my problems. There just as good, if not better than a sports massage because you can vary the level of pain to one thats just bearable and there much cheaper.
Skol on 19 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson:
I would suggest NOT going to a chiropractor, or bouldering, or ANYTHING THAT PUTS EXCESSIVE STRAIN THROUGH YOUR LOWER LIMB.
I would keep your GP in the loop as you may need orthopaedic opinion , and even if you pay privately, you need the GP to authorise it!
Sam Simpson - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Skol: Thanks for the advice everyone. cheers for listing the exercises. I will get a specialist sorted right away :)
The Grist - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson:

Your best bet is to retire from running altogether and focus solely on climbing. Think you should bag off the alps too and just climb UK trad. You know it makes sense.
climb the peak - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson: If it does turn out to be patellar tendonitis and you need advice on anything about it, just let me know and I'll be happy to help.
mark stansfield on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to Skol:

Any chance of you sending me your email so I could arrange to see you about my knee problems

cheers

Mark
Skol on 24 Jun 2013
In reply to mark stansfield:
Hi Mark,
I don't have a private clinic unfortunately,and you appear to be based in Stafford whereas I'm in North Wales.
Have you tried local practices?
Skol
Sam Simpson - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson: Been to see a physio, not really any problems just, very tight quads, IT band and the muscles on the inside of my legs where extremely tight such as the Satorius. need to stretch more than i think i do. Will take it lightly for the time being and build it up slowly before I start to really push it again!If there is any further pain will go back, no problem with the Patellar really. just not stretching enough, which has obviously caused a lot of discomfort around the knee. Nothing to worry about at the moment...
Sam Simpson - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson: also the abductors were extremely tight, given lots of specific stretches to do. Foam Rolling/rolling pin and massage with a tennis ball seems to work!
Skol on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson:
Glad to hear that Sam :-)
That's why hands on assessment is crucial !
Skol
highclimber - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to samsimpson: Mate, How painful is the IT band stretch!? My physio tortured me when I last had one done!
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Skol on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to highclimber:
Really, really painful!!!:-) people have gone soft and bought foam rollers:-(
Sam Simpson - on 26 Jun 2013
In reply to highclimber: abductors and the sartorius were even worse!
Adnan on 17 Jul 2013 - static77-68-4-130.live-dsl.net
In reply to samsimpson: Hi Sam. I am going through the same problem. I have been training hard on the lakeland hills for last 2 months for the BGR challenge in august. I am also a very good downhill runner and will be 27 next month ;-)

I find it really frustrating knowing I can run downhill really fast but I can't at the minute and it hurts :-(

I feel pain around my knee cap, sometimes I think its on the top part and sometimes in the middle of knee cap. I can also feel it when I am in squat position or do lunges.

There is no swelling/bruising or anything, went to see biomechanics and he said knees are oki , will be seeing a physio sometime this week or next.

Its only 3 weeks before I attempt this challenge :o). Hope rest, foam roller, physio works for me :/
dhuhkosi - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to samsimpson:

Simular issues. Went to see doctor yesterday and I have "patella femoral syndrome".

Outer thigh muscle much stronger than inner one. So the knee cap gets pulled across putting stresses throught the knee.

Means I can no longer cycle uphill for some time until fixed.

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