/ Recommend me...Steep and juggy trad.

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Rachel Slater - on 03 Jul 2013
Please recommend me some steep, safe and juggy trad. Thinking similar to Zeppelin at Mother Carey's. I did that in May, can climb E2 quite confidently and could probably climb more E3s if they were all like that one! Thanks.
Pursued by a bear - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle: At a lower grade (HVS-ish) Bovine, best done as the combination route Oxine, in Snowdonia has a top pitch that fits the bill. A steep escalator of jugs to the top.

T.
edinburgh_man on 03 Jul 2013
Roberttaylor - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle: Reiff.
Rachel Slater - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle:

Reiff is on my periphery for the near future!
sjminfife - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle
Britarmartis at HVS, being over the sea adds to the fun.
sjm
Jon Stewart - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle:
> (In reply to r fizzle)
>
> Reiff is on my periphery for the near future!

Reiff is great, but even better is Sheigra. The spectacular Second Geo is so juggy and so fun it defies belief. And there's Monkey Man, an E3 that fits your criteria perfectly.

Plenty too at Gogarth and Rhoscolyn - Mask of the Red Death is steep juggy fun (a bit bold maybe, but nothing too bad), plus a bunch that are on my list too: Centrefold, 20,000 Leagues, Supercrack.

Also, Lower Sharpnose, a little less steep, but where straightforward pulling on holds, with regular gear, in the low-mid E grades is the order of the day. Fantastic stuff.
lowersharpnose - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle:

At Lower Sharpnose.
Out of The Blue
Break On Through

Avon:
Arms Race
New Horizons II
Rancho Cucamonga
Banshee
Yellow Edge (and the top pitch variants, Captain Swing, The Haystack)

Graham - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to lowersharpnose:
If you want to travel - Arapiles (Australia)has what you want, at all grades.
Michael Gordon - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle:

Another vote for Reiff!
Kemics - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to lowersharpnose: '

I dont know how many of your avon list really count as steep and juggy. Arms race definitely is but yellow edge is thin face climbing for the most part (slighty bold too)!
lowersharpnose - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to Kemics:

Fair point, maybe just the Captain Swing variation, then.
The Ivanator - on 03 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle: Ocean Boulevard in the Ruckle (Swanage) springs to mind.
jcw on 04 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle: I have memories of Samba Pa Ti finish to Isengaard (Dow Crag)as meeting requirements, though not so much the main climb. Agony at Castle? Bishops Rib? Sirplum, Hangover 77,
ehole - on 04 Jul 2013
In reply to r fizzle: bionics wall at new mills, strand at gogarth, and if you're on your way to Reiff, any of the routes on Ardmair fit the steep n muggy bill.
CurlyStevo - on 04 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:
A lot of things at sheigra and swanage fall in to the category.
Bulls Crack - on 04 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:

Well, there's the rest of pembroke for a start! Gogarth too. Most 'steep' mountain E2's etc will tend to have jugs somewhere
tom.e - on 04 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater: Go to the Outer Hebrides
GrahamD - on 04 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:

Mars at Swanage might fit the bill - actually quite a lot of Swanage would fit the bill.
jon on 04 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:

Ha, I see you've fizzled out! Generally the words steep/juggy/trad and Pembroke are interchangeable, especially in the E2 > E3 range.
Rachel Slater - on 04 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater: I really do love the climbing in Pembroke, but it's so far away! It took me over 10 hours to get back to Glasgow last time! Really keen to do more at Gogarth but that's not really around the corner either which is annoying!
Nath93 - on 04 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater: Suidhe Biorach at Elgol has some seriously juggy climbing.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=3202
Owen W-G - on 04 Jul 2013
Swanage and Sharpnose should satisfy
Rick Sewards - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:

A bit below your target grade, but reasonably close to home for you - if you haven't done The Big Top and Trapeze on Aonach Dubh's West Face (both E1) I would highly recommend them - both (from distant memory) overhanging (in parts at least), juggy and very spectacular. Admittedly The Big Top doesn't really meet the "safe" criterion - the top pitch is fairly run out, and I think needs a bit of care extending runners etc (though I was climbing well below your level when I did it). Actually talking about them reminds me I must get on the "best route in Scotland" thread...

Down in the Lakes, Phoenix (Scafell East Buttress) fits the bill pretty well. Again it's only given E1, though I've just noticed it's in the logbooks here as E2, which I certainly wouldn't argue with (though I don't think it's given that in any guides) - expect a battle whatever. There's probably a lot more on that crag that would do (it leans in a big way!) but I've not done them. And for something completely different (and not really trad, but you do get an E3 tick!), Darklands at Cathedral Quarry. Mostly bolted with a bit of gear, but certainly steep and juggy and great fun.

BTW, whoever recommended Agony at Castle Rock REALLY overlooked the "safe" bit - good route, but I remember 1 runner in about 70 feet on the 2nd pitch - I think it's now given E2 5a!

Rick
Mountain Lass - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:

For steep and juggy The Sloth (Roaches) and Quietus (Stanage) spring to mind.

At a lower grade one of the most steep and juggy (short) routes I've come accross is Power Faliure on Curbar.

ml
Liam Ingram - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:

The sea cliffs of Pabbay and Mingulay in the Hebrides are perfect if you are wanting steep and juggy.
Duncan Bourne - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:
The Rasp E2 5b at Higgar Tor fits the bill. Lessen that relentless overhanging angle and it would probably be VS. Big holds, gear, but oh so pumpy!! There is a nice video somewhere of Johnny Dawes doing it in five ten tennies.
Michael Gordon - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rick Sewards:
> (In reply to Rachel Slater)
>
> A bit below your target grade, but reasonably close to home for you - if you haven't done The Big Top and Trapeze on Aonach Dubh's West Face (both E1) I would highly recommend them - both (from distant memory) overhanging (in parts at least), juggy and very spectacular. Admittedly The Big Top doesn't really meet the "safe" criterion - the top pitch is fairly run out, and I think needs a bit of care extending runners etc (though I was climbing well below your level when I did it). Actually talking about them reminds me I must get on the "best route in Scotland" thread...
>

Yes both are brilliant and The Big Top is one of Scotland's best IMO. Some bold moves above the belay starting the last pitch on Trapeze, no problem for an E2 leader of course.
Jon Stewart - on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Mountain Lass:
> (In reply to Rachel Slater)
>
> For steep and juggy The Sloth (Roaches) and Quietus (Stanage) spring to mind.
>
can't argue with the sloth, but I think quietus is a peculiar suggestion. Climb through the easy bit on massive holds and then...oh dear, no more jugs!

Al Evans on 05 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater: This is at Pembroke, mega steep but mega juggy, easy HVS.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=113417
Jon Stewart - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater: unbelievable though it sounds, there's a great steep and reasonably long (for grit) jugfest at Earl Crag of all places. And a total soft touch at e2. I don't know how the hell that happened, but its great! If you're in the area, call in for Earl buttress, but don't expect to find any similar routes in the entire region!
Rachel Slater - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart: I am actually planning to try Quietus next time I'm at Stanage, it just looks so good!
Misha - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:
Any of the classics at Swanage - the home of steep, juggy trad!

Quietus isn't really juggy, the crux is an evil crack but may be I just did it wrong (well, I failed in fact).
shantaram - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater: Get yourself to Dun Mingulay on Mingulay and you've got stacks of amazing steep juggy E2/3/4's on the most immaculate, well protected rock imaginable. The grades are soft due to the seriousness of the location. If you can comfortably climb E2's then Mingulay E3's should be OK. Probably the best crag in the Uk for what you are looking for. The crux is organising a trip there, getting the weather and the abseil in.......
lowersharpnose - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Mountain Lass:

Can't find a route called Power Failure at Curbar. What/where is it?
Offwidth - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to lowersharpnose:

A really shite route on the steep wall at right-angles to Campion Wall.
Al Evans on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Misha:
> (In reply to Rachel Slater)
> Any of the classics at Swanage - the home of steep, juggy trad!
>
> Quietus isn't really juggy, the crux is an evil crack but may be I just did it wrong (well, I failed in fact).

The roof on Quietus is juggy E1 5a, the finish is 6a.
Offwidth - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

The finish is and has been for a long time 5c.
Rachel Slater - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater: I want to try Quietus regardless of the fact the crack isn't juggy (and I already knew that). I'm hoping and expecting that I WILL find it hard and struggle lots!
Jonny2vests - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:
> (In reply to Rachel Slater) I want to try Quietus regardless of the fact the crack isn't juggy (and I already knew that). I'm hoping and expecting that I WILL find it hard and struggle lots!

You might get lucky, there's an 'easy' way and about 15 much harder ones.
Jon Stewart - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to Al Evans)
>
> The finish is and has been for a long time 5c.

Yeah, the same way The Sole is 5b!
Offwidth - on 13 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart: I acknowledge some routes are traditionally undergraded and although Ive not done The Sole my suspitions are high it is one. I thought the top moves on Quietus are middle to top 5c if you get it right (and any difficulty in spotting this should be adding to the adjectival grade). Now Kelly's Overhang is a route that I can't find a 5b method but I could have said the same for Verandah buttress until I looked hard and now I know several 5b methods and a 4c method.
chris fox on 13 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:

Yeh Sir Plum and Hangover 77 are both steep and juggy. as mentioned above Also down at Pembroke are these

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=24673

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=24781
tetley - on 13 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:
If no one has said it; Rhoscolyn. Lots of steep and juggy stuff.
Jon Stewart - on 14 Jul 2013
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart) I thought the top moves on Quietus are middle to top 5c if you get it right

like this

http://www.ukclimbing.com/videos/play.php?i=1655

(certainly looks 5c or less)

rather than this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPhHjOyy770

(which I found to be 6a/b/I couldn't do it)?

There's nothing like the internet for providing too much information.

> Now Kelly's Overhang is a route that I can't find a 5b method

I nearly used that as my example, but it was given the correct grade of E1 5c in one guide, so it didn't quite count.
lowersharpnose - on 14 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I've done Kelly's Overhang at 5b. Not telling though.
Jonny2vests - on 14 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I've got an easier way than either of those.
lukehunt - on 14 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:

Another vote for Anoch Dubh East Face. Steep + well protected quality lines.

Cambusbarron (Thornton's Quarry) is worth a look. It needs about a week of dry weather, but the climbing is steep and immaculate.

Both these crags can be done in an evening from Glasgow; just remember to take the midge spray...
Jon Stewart - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to lowersharpnose:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> I've done Kelly's Overhang at 5b. Not telling though.

Is that because it involved chipping?

Or do you mean bridging up using crappy slopey sidey-under things for hands, rather than doing the rock onto the right foot (impossible) move? If so, I still think 5c.
Jon Stewart - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
> [Quietus]
> I've got an easier way than either of those.

Does it involve being short and strong?
Rick Graham on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I have seen KO being done by several methods over the years.

The attributes for three ways appear to be
Short and strong.
Tall and bold.
Agile and thin.
Two other ways required all or nothing lunges.

Have fun. I seconded by methods 1 + 2 a few years ago, downclimbing 1 then back up 2 and wondered what all the fuss was about.

It became clear when I tried again a few weeks ago.
Ungradeable, either you can or cannot.
Jonny2vests - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> Does it involve being short and strong?

From the position Oli is in at around 0.36 in the second vid, right heel out right (somewhere..) and right hand cross over to the rounded boss on the left like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ueirqzbbiy7ibu/quietus.jpg

Then (probably) match and then you pull into a sort of lay back position and with your right foot on the far wall out right. No baggy jams on bent arms or anything unsightly, makes it feel as sequency and unthrutchy as FBD.

As far as Kelly's goes, it must be much easier for short arses, because I really don't see it like others do. I can wedge my leg in and get a proper no hander at the half way point, then do the balancy finish fully rested. I mean it's not like I'm good at balancy, I can barely do King Kong on a toppy.
lowersharpnose - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I definitely did not do that hard rock-over on the right foot. It did not feel like 5c, maybe it would now, I was climbing well (for me) when I did it.

Possibly Rick Grahams 'tall and bold' method.
jacobjlloyd - on 16 Jul 2013
Michael Gordon - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to jacobjlloyd:

Hmmm, steep, well protected but not crack climbs? I wonder how many on there actually fit the criteria. Not Sloth, London Wall or Right Wall for a start!
Offwidth - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:

My memory of King King as a seconding punter is a biggish reach from a highly precarious mantel... sort of a throw from the closest in on a dynamicly unstable one-armed position before you gently tilt back off. I nearly flashed it but eventually probably had some help on the rope. My leader was a brute: was onsighting the odd E7 at the time and he made it look piss but he did get rescued off Impossible Slab later that (hot) day... makes you realise even the strong are fallible.

Back on KO I've seen several methods people claim are 5b but I'm thinking NCC 5b maybe .... and even so the route is certain E1 from the majority of HVS and good few extreme leaders that it stops.
Jon Stewart - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Jonny2vests:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
> [...]
>
> From the position Oli is in at around 0.36 in the second vid, right heel out right (somewhere..) and right hand cross over to the rounded boss on the left like this:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ueirqzbbiy7ibu/quietus.jpg

Interesting ta for posting. Will be useful if I ever get on that bloody route again...
Jonny2vests - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to Jonny2vests)
>
> My memory of King King as a seconding punter is a biggish reach from a highly precarious mantel... sort of a throw from the closest in on a dynamicly unstable one-armed position before you gently tilt back off.

Yeah. It wasn't even that far a reach, it was more of a timing thing. Grit weirdness, kicks my ass every time, but I still miss it.
michael00693 - on 18 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater: +1 for Ocean Boulevard. Good holds, apparently good gear (I didn't test any of it) albeit spaced apart, jug for a rest 3/4 way up. Very fun
Jon Stewart - on 28 Jul 2013
In reply to jcw:
> (In reply to r fizzle) I have memories of Samba Pa Ti

This is a remarkable pitch of steep, juggy trad in a fantastic position high on a big mountain crag. An absolute must for anyone who enjoys swinging around on buckets in positions of great exposure. Absolutely mint. Catacomb also involves a fair amount of glorious jug-hauling (and is harder than Samba IMO - a sandbag I thought though I may have been knackered).

While we're on about the Lakes, Reecastle has steep, juggy trad (with some smaller holds too of course on the harder routes) in an outcrop setting. Rack Direct is a right laugh (but a bit bold at the start).
ads.ukclimbing.com
Pagan - on 28 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Think you must have been tired; I thought Catacomb was the easiest of the three classic E1s up there - steady away. Samba is bottom of the grade but ace - did you do Isengard to get to it? Brilliant combination of routes.
Jon Stewart - on 28 Jul 2013
In reply to Pagan:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> Think you must have been tired; I thought Catacomb was the easiest of the three classic E1s up there - steady away. Samba is bottom of the grade but ace - did you do Isengard to get to it? Brilliant combination of routes.

Yes, did Isengard, a good pitch. Keen to get back for Pink Panther and Nimrod - which is the other classic E1?
Pagan - on 28 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Tarkus - perhaps not as good as the other two but still worthwhile. Pushy start then easier climbing above. I thought Pink Panther was nails but my feet were in agony after doing Eliminate A and Isengard/Samba Pa Ti and walking down in rock shoes twice!
Jon Stewart - on 28 Jul 2013
In reply to Pagan:

Sounds like a tiring day. Nice choice of route order too ;)

Did you actually do that Langdale E2 challenge btw, or was it just a plan? Given how tired I felt after the walk and a couple of routes up at Flat Crags the other week, it seems all the more astonishing an idea.
Pagan - on 28 Jul 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

We tried! We made it about halfway round before we ground to a halt for various reasons but we were trying it at the back end of August, so limited daylight for the amount of climbing/walking required. I still think it would be feasible - in fact the recent run of good weather would have been perfect for it but I wasted the opportunity on Scafell and Gable instead...could have been worse!
John Stainforth - on 28 Jul 2013
In reply to Rachel Slater:

The top pitch of Shrike on Cloggy is a vertical jugfest apart from one or two harder moves low down.

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