/ Glen Nevis neglect.

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Fiend - on 15 Jul 2013
Strayed off the beaten track in the Glen this weekend and am still digging moss out of my hair, eyes, and underpants.

Anyone know why some routes are so neglected in such an accessible area??

And has anyone done any of these routes in the last decade:
Caterpillar (very dirty from half-height)
Steerpike (tree too hollow to abseil, finish is abysmal)
Spring Fever (looked dirty)
Quality Street
Liquidator (choked with moss, unclimbably filthy)
Aquarian Rebels (thin sheen of lichen)
Chimera (looks filthy, and was a few years ago)
Easy Pickings (looks filthy)
Mutant
Straight Thinking
The Gift
Think Vertical (was bone dry but no sign of climbing)
??

Any other beta on where to avoid in the Glen??
Milesy - on 15 Jul 2013
If I was travelling all the way up to Fort William and it was decent weather why would I be mucking about in Glen Nevis? Personally I would rather be high up on The Ben doing something, even scrambling.

Other reasons:

Glen Nevis is mobbed with tourists in summer.
Midges
Ticks
Jamie B - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Milesy:

> If I was travelling all the way up to Fort William and it was decent weather why would I be mucking about in Glen Nevis?

Because at it's best it's high quality outcrop climbing? Some people actually prefer outcrops, we're not all mountaineers...
Milesy - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Jamie B:

Yes but he asked a question to why it is neglected and *I* gave my answer to why *I* personally neglect the crag. I like outcrops and cragging as much as the next guy, but I won't travel to the foot of The Ben to do it. Other people might have different answers, but the aggregation of them will answer his question.......
Pinch'a'salt on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:

No idea, but even 15 years ago it was similar (possibly slightly better - certainly Liquidator & Aquarian Rebels were clean as a whistle 10 years ago...) - Car Park crag was always deserted despite Quality Street being a high quality route (as are the E2s up there who's names elude me at the moment but were very very good). Word tended to get around in town if the routes had had a clean and then they saw some traffic...

I currently don;t climb up there as I live 1500 miles away in a different country (lame excuse i know..).

Milesy - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:
> Mucking about?

Just a phrase. Nothing intended. I love cragging.
martinph78 on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:
> Anyone know why some routes are so neglected in such an accessible area??

> Any other beta on where to avoid in the Glen??



And there is your problem. Why not give it a clean-up yourself instead of avoiding it?
Fiend - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Pinch'a'salt:

Pffft that is a lame excuse indeed.

Clearly the routes were given stars for good reason when they were put up, and most of the ones I mention are excellent lines up fine bits of rock. And I suspect that decades ago they did get climbed....but more so than today??
Fiend - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Milesy:

Okay changed my post...

Perhaps I should have been more specific - I'm interested in why some accessible **/*** classics seem completely neglected, whilst others are clearly well climbed. Obviously the easier routes throughout Polldubh get climbed, but I'm wondering why, for example, Edgehog is so bleached with chalk you can see it from the carpark, whilst routes of a comparable standard would take longer to wirebrush than they would to climb?? And whether the guidebook information / ratings should be considered at all accurate for anything other than the classics??
Fiend - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Martin1978:

Because I'd rather drive 2.5 hours to go climbing, not cleaning.

I'm asking for information, not asking people to clean routes (although if locals did, that would be very welcome).
Milesy - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:
> Because I'd rather drive 2.5 hours to go climbing, not cleaning.

Well maybe this is a self perpetuating problem then? Now it started to get dirty/overgrown no one wants to clean it, so it gets more dirtier, and people dont want to clean it more, so it gets more dirtier... ?
Fiend - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Milesy:

Oh yeah, some of these routes will be doomed now, unless there is an concerted effort to clean them. What I want to know is why these routes have ended up in this state from their original **/*** status??
a lakeland climber on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:

I've mentioned this on another thread but we used to carry brushes with us and clean *bits* of routes as we went. So rather than one person spending hours cleaning a route to the nth degree, the routes would become clean by many people climbing/attempting them and each cleaning just a little bit.

Obviously it means that everyone has to do their part and not just rely on someone else to do the graft for them.

Head down to your local hardware store and pick up a soft wire brush and make it part of your rack when climbing away from the honey pots.

ALC
Mark Bull - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:

Most likely the stars were based on the first ascentionist's write up, having just cleaned and climbed it. Routes climbed in the pre-internet age took years to get into a guidebook, and the number of locals operating at that grade and who knew of their existence probably wasn't sufficient to keep stuff clean, especially on shady north-facing crags.
CurlyStevo - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:
I would have thought the string of shit summers (bar the last one in scotland so I hear) would have something to do with it.
The Pylon King on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:
> (In reply to Milesy)
>
> Oh yeah, some of these routes will be doomed now, unless there is an concerted effort to clean them. What I want to know is why these routes have ended up in this state from their original **/*** status??

.....because they probably need regular cleaning and the 'onsight obsessives' are not going to do this are they? You could have abbed down a few and cleaned them first.
Coel Hellier - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:

That "E2" you did on Wave is given E3 in the SMC selective, though still with the "... high in the grade ..." description.
Jamie B - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:

I'd agree with others who point to honey-potting towards the better-known and cleaner routes. This does seem to create a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby those routes stay clean but the others suffer.

Other factors are that some of the more distant buttresses take a fair bit of tick-infested jungle-bashing to reach, and that there is relatively little local traffic through the midgey summer months - on most evenings it's really not a good place to be! I also have a suspicion that the numbers of local climbers who are operating in the E-grades is much smaller than you would find at a crag nearer big cities.
Andy Nisbet - on 15 Jul 2013
In reply to Coel Hellier:
> (In reply to Fiend)
>
> That "E2" you did on Wave is given E3 in the SMC selective, though still with the "... high in the grade ..." description.

This error has been noted before and is on the SMC web-site. "... high in the grade ..." should have been deleted. Apologies.

Fiend - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Andy Nisbet:

I think it's fair that the E3 stays. E3 5b??

Still at least that was well travelled, hell even the two terrible wire slots "protecting" the first 10m were quite well worn ;)
Fiend - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Jamie B:

> Other factors are that some of the more distant buttresses take a fair bit of tick-infested jungle-bashing to reach

The Gorge and River Walls don't though, possibly the nicest walk of the buttresses there! And Wave isn't too bad by Scottish standards....there are great lines just in-between the well-worn Crackattack and Edgehog that shown no signs of climbing.

> and that there is relatively little local traffic through the midgey summer months - on most evenings it's really not a good place to be!

True, but conversely it's the *only* place to be in the spring / autumn months and really blowy weather when Coe and the other mountain areas would be out...
Jamie B - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:

I've seen photos from about 20-30 years ago and the tree cover was a lot less. Not sure what changed this but the Polldubh Club deserve praise for having thinned it out on most of the more accessible buttresses on Polldubh.

It has to be said that Micah schist set amongst woodlands is always going to be prone to overgrowth - check out Glen Lednock sometime!
Andy Nisbet - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:
> I think it's fair that the E3 stays. E3 5b??
>
> Still at least that was well travelled, hell even the two terrible wire slots "protecting" the first 10m were quite well worn ;)

I've only seconded it but the three of us thought it was worth 5c. E3 5b is like a death grade (unless it's very sustained) and I think you'd survive.
Colin Moody - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Jamie B:

>
> I've seen photos from about 20-30 years ago and the tree cover was a lot less. Not sure what changed this


Sheep were removed.
Gary Latter - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:
The entire Glen Nevis section of the SMC Scottish Rock Climbs guide is verbatim text from the section I wrote for the SMC Highland Outcrops guide. Only the errors are new! Some of the grades & star ratings were altered, but not the text; Ground Zero on Wave Buttress had grade changed from E2 5b (which I believe is correct) to E3 5c, but still retained the 'high in grade' description.

I was perplexed that I was never credited with this section, nor mentioned in the acknowledgements. Maybe the royalty cheque got lost in the post?

I know Jules Lines spent some time abseiling down & cleaning Aquarian Rebels last spring, so was definitely climbed last year. I've never understood the neglect of the routes in the glen - brilliant place to climb before the meejies arrive. Guess there's just not that many people interested in trad in Scotland, when they can get on the big numbers on the bolts...
Fiend - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Gary Latter:

That's probably right.

Sport climbing is the death of trad climbing in Scotland.
Wee Davie - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:

Unusually hot, still weather, chest high ferns, midgies and clegs- welcome to hillside cragging in mid summer. You'd be better going up to the actual mountain crags at this point in the season. You'll not get the Buachaille or other mtn crags drier...
Fiend - on 16 Jul 2013
In reply to Wee Davie:

I know that. It still doesn't account for the general neglect on the rare occasions that the Western Highlands don't have unusually hot, still, dry weather...
Nigel Thomson - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend: You're right, and some people are talking about Glen Nevis as if it was some shitehawk quarry in the middle of the Forth Road Bridge roundabout. The area is outstanding but without doubt becoming mossier and less travelled. Many years ago did Liquidator, Gawping Grockles, Plague of Blazes, Travellin Man in the one weekend and it left me in complete awe of the place!! It's one of the most beautiful spots on the planet, slightly let down by midges but hopping from crag to crag in the summer sun has a fantastic feel about the place. Horses for courses but some of the punters on here going on about routes on the Ben wouldn't know a good route if it bit them on the erse, and I've done plenty up there as well. Gonnae stick ma neck out here and say, your Joe Bloggs at the climbing walls and social media climbing groups aren't interested in getting in about it, they're more interested in spraying in Auchinstarry car park wae more bling on their harness than Mr T!!!
Milesy - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to the weegy:

Lucky for you no one really cares what you think. I certainly don't.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Nigel Thomson - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to Milesy:
> (In reply to the weegy)
>
> Lucky for you no one really cares what you think.


Is that right wee man, I'll bear that in mind next time I bump in to you. Just for the record, I'm actually held in quite high regard within and out with my peer group. What I suggest you do is stop top roping routes into submission before the lead and keep your stories of Ben Nevis hut records to yourself. BTW, did you ever get Jacobs Ladder done that day I bumped in to you? Fallout Corner was cracking. You should have come wae the big boys!
Milesy - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to the weegy:

Haha. I've top roped a route three times, but that's neither here nor there.

I might not climb in the high grades like you Nigel, but I'd rather be having fun that climbing with some anti social climbers full of attitude that I wouldn't trust to hold my shopping never mind my ropes. I climb for myself and my friends, and if you don't fall into that group I simply don't care. End of.
Nigel Thomson - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to Milesy: I use a pseudonym on here for a reason. Stop identifying me whenever you can. That's a couple of times you've done it now. Allow me to be candid with you. The only reason I was having a go, and I'm sure the majority of UKC will agree, is you come across as very partisan whenever it comes to some either or argument. That and the fact that what you know about climbing you could tattoo on a midgies baws. Just saying mate.
Milesy - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to the weegy:

It's a forum and I enjoy discussing things. That's the point. It's got nothing to do with you and neither has my climbing. You and your mates (although I suspect it's just you) creating aliases to wind up someone you don't even know just to get your jollies. I'm not scared of your veiled threats. Also I you pay attention your name is on the photos on your profile so I'm hardly divulging official secrets. Why don't you just do me a favour and feck off. I deleted you from Facebook for a reason. What I get up to is no concern to you.
Alex Slipchuk on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to the weegy: aw, I thought you were best buddies. Ps milesy I actually tried to defend you against others who think you're a knob, I also found out who st.we.baws was. You deleted me as well. As a result I find this thread extremely amusing. Ps it's not belpful to give advice on routes you've never done. Unless you're trying to impress. Most users on this forum are switched on enough to see through this. Never the less, good climbs always :)
Milesy - on 17 Jul 2013
I didn't give any advice actually. I said I dont go cragging in Glen Nevis because its a long drive and I would personally rather be up high doing anything. Thats not advice. Thats opinion.
Alex Slipchuk on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to Milesy: I was referring to previous posts. As for glen nevis, not all of us can make the cic hut in 45 mins in big boots, as such glen nevis offers spectacular multi pitch cragging a mere amble from the roadside, as such it has its place for those wanting a shorter day.
Milesy - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to The Big Man:

Why not concern yourself with yourself rather than other people then! Do you not have better things to do with your life and family than get on at what other people post in their own time? What's it to you?
Alex Slipchuk on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to Milesy:
> (In reply to The Big Man)
>
> Why not concern yourself with yourself rather than other people then! Do you not have better things to do with your life and family than get on at what other people post in their own time? What's it to you?

It's a public forum and I have an opinion, practice what you preach and stop worrying about others.besides giving advice about routes you've never done could be dangerous.
Milesy - on 17 Jul 2013
You can make any opinion you want as I do, but if you make your posts personal about me then we have a problem.
Alex Slipchuk on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to Milesy:
> You can make any opinion you want as I do, but if you make your posts personal about me then we have a problem.

I refer you to my previous post of practicing what you preach.

As for problems, speak for yourself.

You took an olive branch and chucked it back. People skills, paranoia and wasting folks time in winter by not actually understanding the need for an early start and not letting folk down.

You actually thought I was responsible for previous posts telling you that you were a fan dan. Weird
Nigel Thomson - on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to The Big Man: Right, lets call a halt. We're all in it for the same reasons. Milesy you seem to b4e progressing through the grades and that's great. We're experiencing a great summer off the back of a great winter so lets all get in about it. F@ck, even Slime Wall is bone dry. So this weekend, lets have it my friends!! Peace.
awwritetroops on 17 Jul 2013
In reply to the weegy:

nah, he's a clown....
highclimbingguy - on 19 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:
Just cleaned and climbed Quality Street up at Car Park crag. Brilliant route. Now had 3 pairs of hands climb it today so is clean enough. Didn't clean the very bottom as I lost the feeling in my legs, but its easy. Also leaving the 1st belay I missed a section but again is ok. Great gear, great route. Perfect for these boiling hot days as it stays in the shade until 4.30ish. Hope it gets more ascents. To approach we walked to the head of the gorge and picked a nice path which traverses rightwards. We descended be going straight down the hill side. 60m rap from the top, in-situ ab station.
Fiend - on 19 Jul 2013
In reply to highclimbingguy:

Good stuff, thanks. Will have to check it out soon then.




Milesy, Big Man, weegy, please be quiet.
Cuthbert on 19 Jul 2013
In reply to Fiend:

I think people are less adventurous and also there are less climbers in the local area relative to the late nineties.

The countless bland blogs all writing about the same thing, in the same style also have not done much good.

Great place to go climbing though.

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