/ changing to apple
Any one struggled in the changeover to Apple from PC?
Windows 8 is the biggest pile of poo ever. Dumbs down some aspects and makes other bits too complex to use. Plus I just can't work out how to do certain things that ought to be simple. Microsoft have really lost the plot.
Surely Windows 8 can't be worse than Windows 7?
To the OP:
Not that much different these days between any of the major OSs. Perhaps the biggest visual difference is that the menu bar of the active application appears at the top of the screen rather than at the top of the application.
Install Classic Shell and it's near enough the same as 7.
I found it a pretty steep learning curve when I changed about 4 years ago, but then I did it when I was very busy - bad mistake! Things got a lot better when I bought the "Switching to Mac" manual.
People say Macs are more intuitive than PCs. I haven't really used PCs at all since then, but I'm not so sure: in-tuitions are about what you've "tuited"/learned, and if what you've "tuited" is the PC way of doing things, then I suspect until you've in-tuited the Mac way, they won't seem more intuitive.
However, once tuited, they're great - more intuitive than PCs. I still miss being able to print a document without opening it though.
Well, You could run windows 7 and OSX from the mac mini, look into buying parallels. I use both and always have done, I have never had any formal training on OSX and now I work as a Mac operator so I would say it's quite an easy OS to pick up. From a basic user point of view OSX is 100 times easier than windows, I've never had to do any driver updates or anything that complicated and when it comes to software updates on OSX it's as simple as clicking a button.
The only downside to a Mac mini is the lack of a disk drive so you will need to purchase one if the family want to be able to play games when running windows or if you need to burn your images to disc. I would also recommend buying the official mouse and keyboard, seems to work much better, I as using an HP mouse and it just felt wrong!
Good luck with your upgrades :)
That said, Windows 7 was a great OS, and Windows 8 took me all of a couple of hours to grasp fully, and from then on is super easy to use especially with a multi-touch equipped trackpad. I'd still advocate switching to Apple, but I don't grasp the issues people claim to have with it.
There is always the hackintosh option, The computer I am typing from now dual boot's to Mountain lion & windows 7.
I can not use windows for anything to do with design and photography its just awful and clunky. Same as I can't use OSX for anything to do with gaming or data or websites because it just doesn't work!
I'd still say Apple hardware is worth it, As stated the trackpad is amazing.
I wouldn't bother personally. I bought a MacBook a few years ago thinking I'd love it and switch the desktop too. Suffice to say I didn't. It's a nice piece of hardware but the OS is no better than windows whilst having some major annoyances - and you lose months getting up to speed on it. The level of obsolescence built into apple software and hardware is also amazing and irritating. Grimer had the same experience... I now appreciate windows much more.
I found it worked for me, but I didn't love it enough to not switch away when I got my next laptop. But then what I wanted from the machine was a unix box with a decent desktop and no sysadmin faffing. Macs are great for that.
Forgot to mention. Plug an MS type mouse in and the buttons behave as you would expect in most apps.
...From a basic user point of view OSX is 100 times easier than windows, I've never had to do any driver updates or anything that complicated and when it comes to software updates on OSX it's as simple as clicking a button.
Just to put the record straight, I don't know when you last used Windows, but there needn't be any driver hassle or such shenanigans. I can't remember when I last did any OS type jiggery pokery stuff on Windows. Certainly not on Win7 or 8 and I don't think on XP either. For goodness sake, the 90 year old granny in a flat across the way manages perfectly well.
> The level of obsolescence built into apple software and hardware is also amazing and irritating.
Could you give some examples, just as a matter of interest, please?
Stuff like Doug described above.
Every projector or display I've ever wanted to plug in to has a VGA port, as do every other laptop I've ever seen. But mac laptops don't; instead you get a 'displayport' which comes in two sizes depending on age, or thunderbolt connection (see Doug's post above). Having to remember a £25 adaptor every time I leave the office is not, in my opinion, an elegant design solution worth a slightly neater port on the side of the body. Inevitably, if you forget your adaptor, either pc owners will give you confused looks whilst waving the VGA lead at you saying 'just plug it in', or another mac owner will produce one, only for it to have a slightly different spec.
I've recently bought a SCSI drum scanner which I was able to get working on my Win 7 desktop by simply installing a dual boot of XP. To get it running on a Mac would have required a second machine - the software won't run on modern versions of OSX (it does on recent Windows, though the SCSI support is more difficult to set up), nor can you install an older OS on an modern mac. All due to the change in chip architecture when they moved from powerpc to intel.
I've had many macs and windows PCs, i would save you a lot of effort and cash by suggesting you buy a box with no OS with twice the power for the same money as the mac and install Linux Fedora.
my favourite thing about my MBP is the track pad... I can do everything about 10 times faster than on a windows computer.
Yeah, linux does not attract shite and it does not slowly and surely slow the PC down. My current Linux box has a windows partition that I rarely boot these days. Instead I have a windows virtual box I run from within Linux to do those ever decreasing windows only tasks.
Most photogs and designers i know use Macs, for photo editing and colour work. they just work brilliantly from straight out of the box.
I don't think you'll regret changing. :-)
Fair enough - I've had both those problems, the latter was with a very good Nikon scanner which astonished me. But I'm not sure I'd call either built in obsolescence.
And to those who've sung the praises of the trackpad, I'll add my voice, too.
Most photogs and designers i know use Macs, for photo editing and colour work. they just work brilliantly from straight out of the box.
I don't think you'll regret changing. :-)
How much influence does the OS and associated hardware have on accurate colour rendition?
Surely the monitor and calibration is more important.
I think that you need to be aware that Apple will and does strictly enforce minimum hardware spec's for software. Aperture runs fine on my latest Apple hardware but rug uses to install on some older stuff.
I think the trackpad on the laptop is great too, it's the. Best I've ever used. In terms of hardware, there isn't any real competition for mac laptops. That's why I bought one. But the OS has been a disappointment.
Dek, my other scanner is a Nikon and runs great on 64-bit windows 7. It won't run on a modern mac. I haven't updated to Lightroom 5 yet on the laptop because it won't run on OSX 10.6.8 which is all of two years old. Other software - the free versions of photoshop CS2 for example, won't run on newer versions. None of these problems on the PC. And as I said, they change the connection standard every couple of years so you have to buy adapters or new peripherals. That is built in obsolescence to me.
I was disappointed to find my mac laptop slowed down over time just like a windows machine- you have to do the same housekeeping. My dad has had his less than two years and it is unusably slow.
Apple have a reputation for 'just working' and for being the choice of graphics professials. Both these reputations were earnt ten years ago, are less true today, and getting less true with every OS or software release. Apple abandoned the professional market years back - look at the reaction to the OS Lion release, the Final Cut Pro update, or the new Mac Pro specs. Read this:
Sorry, that middle bit was aimed at Solaris not Dek.
Anyone know of a PC version of a Mac Mini that's any good?
>Same as I can't use OSX for anything to do with gaming or data or websites because it just doesn't work!
Eh? Not sure about the gaming side but web development is a doddle under OSX. It comes with a built-in web server (Apache) plus PHP, Python, Ruby. If you don't want to use the built-in web server then MAMP is easy to install. Pretty well every development IDE is available. The exceptions of course being those tools for IIS.
The only thing I needed to download to get a development system up and running was MySQL. Then it was just a case of enabling the web server through the System Preferences UI - all of 30 seconds. I later downloaded a better editor but I'd have done that on Windows anyway.
OSX is Unix with a pretty face.
I use Windows, OSX & Linux in equal measure and they are all much of a muchness really these days, one will be better in one area than the others but lose out on something else.
> Anyone know of a PC version of a Mac Mini that's any good?
Saw an advert for this in my computer mag. Not seen one, but you can put an i5 or i7 in, if you want.
Absolutely agreed, Adam. It seems such a pity, when they had the whole thing working so well about 7 year ago. For me to get irritated with the Mac OS would have been unthinkable then - I've always been a huge supporter, but they've really got to watch it now. Their next OS better be a big improvement / return to the good old days ...
The biggest thing you'll probably struggle with is trying not to become an Apple Bore ;-)
(long term Win PC user who gets very bored of MAC users droning on and on... and then on some more)
Thanks, Adam. (I realized, btw.) Interesting reading, especially the link.
Unlike you, and quite a few others on here, I don't make great professional demands on my computer (just word processing, email and internet access) but I can recognize at least some of the problems listed on the link, eg the first bullet point. And I had to upgrade my OS to run Lr5: quite a lot of guff that I've no interest in, designed to replicate the iExperience, and slower...
But do those who run Macs still have fewer reasons for discontent/disillusionment than those who run PCs? I had thought the Mac bores won that one but perhaps I'm wrong!
What you pay for with Apple, apart from (traditionally) user-friendliness, is a very high standard of robustness and reliability. That much, at least, borne out by my 23 years of using Macs, and never having single major fault. (The power unit of my last - now 'vintage' iMac failed after 5 years, but was quickly and quite cheaply replaced)
But there are others snapping at there heels for a fraction of the price. Toshiba seem to make v reliable PCs, and Samsung and Kindle are in the process of toppling Apple in the field of tablets and e-readers. The Kindle Fire at 99 quid is awesome.
... That much, at least, borne out by my 23 years of using Macs, and never having single major fault...
I have a very similar experience, but in my case I use Dell PC's. Never had a drive fail, monitor blow, virus etc etc
Just lucky I guess ;)
(or maybe it's not looking at dodgy websites or using hooky software or loading any free crap)
I think there are a couple of reasons people become Mac bores/ fans - firstly most windows users have never used or considered an alternative. They aren't windows fanboys for the same reason I'm not a Yorkshire water fanboy. Secondly, people get frustrated at a three+ year old windows laptop that cost £300, then spunk £1200 on a new MacBook and are amazed at how much better it is. Not really a surprise is it? The problem I found is that there isn't really any competition from other manufacturers - Sony make some expensive machines but the case/ build quality is like any other laptop. I don't regret buying a MacBook Pro, but i now know I need to run a windows machine as well. When I bought it i was expecting it to be the start of a transition across.
I've built all my desktops PCs from components bought with the advice of a few friends. £300 later and you have a machine which is a third of the price of a comparable Mac, and far more flexible and upgradeable. I tend to upgrade a component most years to keep it up to speed - a new SSD boot drive for example.
The great thing with windows is that if you have a problem like running an old scanner, you can google it and someone, somewhere will have solved it. Try that with apple and most of the time you just hit a brick wall.
Using things like virtual box to run multiple operating systems from the same machine is trivial. I used to run windows from within OSx a lot.
Stay away from Kindle Fires. They are highly adapted to Amazon, as you would expect and as such have considerably less access to Apps than a normal Android product. Try and get a vanilla flavour Android product if possible. They have unlimited access to android apps and more importantly, they get updates far quicker than any android kit that is heavily branded with a manufacturer.
I have an old, in relative terms, tablet from Asus yet it has the latest android OS and when Kit Kat comes out I too will be able to upgrade quite quickly.
In Tablet terms you either buy an ipad or you buy the best android tablet out there and there are quite a few android tablets that can exceed ipads.
The reason I got a Mac initially (in 1991) was that it was miles ahead of the game - in fact, exactly 10 years ahead of the PC with windows - and was stunned by how good it was ... even then (minute in memory etc compared with now) For a very long time, at least 12-15 years, the Mac remained far ahead in reliability, user-friendliness, and great innovations. In the 1990s when I occasionally had to use a PC I couldn't believe how complicated, clunky and frustrating the PC was by comparison. I'm the first now to agree that all that changed ... once the PC had copied most of the good points of the Mac almost exactly.
Isn't the Kindle Fire an ebook reader and almost nothing else (except internet)? I wouldn't expect it to do much more than that. Just feel a bit sorry to have an old style standard Kindle.
The only "real" problem I've had, as opposed to something that works in a different way to what I expect, is with a Plustek scanner. The drivers were originally written for the previous Motorala based hardware. I was able to run it on OSX Snow Leopard using Rosetta as a translation mechanism. When I upgraded to Lion, Rosetta was dropped so the driver didn't work. The manufacturer hasn't updated the drivers either :-( A bit of searching revealed a 3rd party driver option - I just have to pay for it when the preview period ends.
I've had less problems with my iMac than with my similarly specced Windows machines. After four years it's still zipping along nicely. I'm certainly not a fanboy and wouldn't discount getting another Windows machine as I quite like the look of Windows 8 - I can't stand Windows 7.
I am a little stunned though at how few seem to consider Linux a viable alternative, its not even part of the conversation here. It's no longer a black art, and the Mac OSx is pretty much Linux anyway, anyone that uses the command line on a Mac will know this.
> Isn't the Kindle Fire an ebook reader and almost nothing else (except internet)? I wouldn't expect it to do much more than that. Just feel a bit sorry to have an old style standard Kindle.
I actually think the e-ink Kindles are much better for reading. I have a Neuxus 7 Android tablet (much better than the Kindle Fire in every respect) but still read from my lovely distraction-free Kindle with its crisp black and white display :-)
> I actually think the e-ink Kindles are much better for reading. I have a Neuxus 7 Android tablet (much better than the Kindle Fire in every respect) but still read from my lovely distraction-free Kindle with its crisp black and white display :-)
Absolutely agree, every now and then something comes along which is near perfect and that old fashioned Kindle with e-ink display fits the bill: monster battery life, readable in bright light,clear as a bll tough and light.
OK, so I'll stick with what I've got :)
> What you pay for with Apple, apart from (traditionally) user-friendliness, is a very high standard of robustness and reliability.
Quite so, in my far more limited experience, and I've never regretted splashing out on my MacBook Pro.
There is (or was) something a bit cultish about owning a Mac. (I mean, 2 nice solid chunks of aluminium vs 2 plastic boxes?!) The downside is that when you have a problem there are fewer resources, the upside is that, on the whole Macs don't have as many problems - yet.
My abiding and biggest regret since owning a Mac: Shift+F5 in Word doesn't work between different occasions of closing/opening Word; it does (did) on a PC.
> Isn't the Kindle Fire an ebook reader and almost nothing else
The Kindle Fire is a tablet computer which has been severely hindered by Amazon's desire to lock it into the Amazon eco-system. Its their kit and its greatly subsidised to keep the costs down as long as you keep giving money to Amazon.
If you want a 7 inch tablet then the daddy is a Nexus 7, period.
Apple were so scared of this kit that they had to create the ipad mini, and even that can't touch it.
> Yes, agree.
> I am a little stunned though at how few seem to consider Linux a viable alternative,
Not until you realise that one billion smart phones are running linux. But then, we'll keep that quiet shall we.
Probably because this thread is in the photography forum, and none of the major programs for photography - Photoshop, Lightroom, Aperture, Capture one etc - will run on Linux. So its pretty much a non-starter. Your only option I'm aware of is to run Gimp and do your asset management in a file manager. No thanks!
I think I know two people, both IT professionals, who are comfortable working with the command line. The vast majority of users are simply not interested in writing code. I've done quite enough for websites.
Who said anything about writing code? Although writing a bit of code no matter what your OS goes a long way and can be liberating.
There are asset management packages and more than gimp for image processing. I process satellite images for a job.
> Who said anything about writing code? Although writing a bit of code no matter what your OS goes a long way and can be liberating.
I would class using the command line as writing code. I agree its not the same as proper coding but equally you aren't using conventional words or grammar. Knowing a little is liberating for using clunky forums like this, but the vast majority of users aren't interested, especially those who perceive apple to be wonderful because it just works.
Interesting - what do you use? I looked into it a few years back and didn't find anything worth investigating. Having said that it would have to be pretty special to tempt me away from Lightroom.
I wasn't saying you need to be intimate with the command line, just that a mac is effectively running linux if you were. I do think its useful, no matter what the OS, although doing it in Windows makes me shudder.
There's something called Rapid Photo Downloader for asset management.
Theres something called darktable also that I havent used. I use gimp a lot too and quite like it, along with imagemagick, the GDAL libraries. Incidentally, there's a lot more than just gimp these days for editing too:
I stray into windows for other things, via virtual box. I think my main point was if you want stability and longevity, Linux is an easy winner and you don't need to give up windows or OSx.
Have any fun?
> Have any fun?
> Post never ending cries for help, about my f*ckin PC?
I'm sure I could break a mac as well
boasting of its superiority to windows?
Perhaps you missed a word?
I don't see any particular advantage (these days) to changing from one system to another...
Elsewhere on the site
With four photos in this week's top ten, and a UKC gallery of stunning images we thought it was time we had a chat with... Read more
F ounded in 1993, Mountain Hardwear are a pretty young mountaineering clothing and equipment manufacturer but are also one of... Read more
Rock shoes stink – let’s face it. Boot Bananas are the perfect way to fight the funk and keep them fresh. They help... Read more
Tonight's Friday Night Video features the Norwegian town of Rjukan, once believed to be the home of the world's tallest... Read more
Perhaps the perfect Xmas gift for the climber in your life... Wild Country's Crack School has two of the worlds best crack... Read more