/ What grade (and maybe route) do you aspire to ?

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Ciderslider - on 10 Sep 2013
Now I think that I've bored enough people with the "I'd like to get reasonably solid leading HVS with E1's on a good day" spiel, but what grade/route do you hope to do (or maybe in some peoples case - maybe you Mr Ward ;-) what was the best you ever did/ got to ?

So for me realistically E1 (possibly E2) - Cemetery Gates, and maybe, just maybe, one day Elegy E2.
Tom Last - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

E5 onsight.

Darkinbad
Widespread Ocean of Fear
Il Duce
Big John
Astroman

...
Tom Last - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Isn't CG HVS?
puppythedog on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: I aspire over the next year to become solid at E2. I don't see why I can't get to E4 and aspire to that at least in life terms. I don't have a particular route in mind but some captivate me. I will go back and do Chalkstorm at some point. I climbed paperclip slab about a moth ago because I was so psyched.
Think it's going to get tough now I've moved to the south east/east :-(
Ciderslider - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Last: Na, E1 5b,4c
Tom Last - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Definitely used to be. It's not that bad and pretty safe - just a wee bit steep. You should be fine with all your Swanage steepness :)
Cameron94 on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

VII, 7.

Not that bothered about summer grades but would like to get steady at E1.
Gordon Stainforth - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Last:

CG has always been right on the cusp of HVS/E1. The grade of very little importance, the route is great.
Tom Last - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to Tom Last)
>
> CG has always been right on the cusp of HVS/E1. The grade of very little importance, the route is great.

Amen to that!
Caralynh - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

It WAS E2 and Scafell Central Buttress. However, after climbing fairly well 5 yrs ago and getting to the *ahem* dizzy heights of E1 and now not having the time to get decent again, current aspirations are a return to solid VS and finishing Classic Rock.
deacondeacon - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
You're already creeping into HVS and E1 after what, two years of climbing? I reckon you can set your heights a little higher than E2.

My goals are solely grit-centric but are pretty much anything on Hard Grit. Masters Edge, Gaia, End Of The Affair, Renegade Master, Kaluza Klein. Im confident that I'll climb some of them but have reluctantly accepted that they'll almost definitely be headpointed.
Calder - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Mine has been Shibboleth since day one. And therefore E2. The latter has been achieved, albeit only once. But I think it'll be a while before I'm confident enough to go for the former.

Once that's done I'll move the goalposts a couple of grades (can't think of any particular route at the mo.
kingholmesy - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I always seem to aspire to one grade more than what I'm currently climbing. Why is it that the best looking routes in the guide are the ones just slightly out of reach?
AJM - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

8b+ is as high as I've dared dream - I think even that would require a dedication to climbing that I just don't know if ill be able to sustain for the time required. But some sort of world class line like Tom et je Ris at Verdon (http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68218) or Humildes per casa at Oliana (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Humildes+pa+Casa+oliana) would be unbelievable.

On trad being able to climb classic E5s would be good, there are so many of them!
Mick Ward - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

> (or maybe in some peoples case - maybe you Mr Ward ;-) what was the best you ever did/ got to ?

Oh dear, how embarrassing... F7a+ onsight, F7c redpoint, E5 solo.


> ...but what grade/route do you hope to do...

Hmm... think I'll keep this to myself, Mark! (We all have our dreams...)

Mick

Ciderslider - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Tom Last: Cheers mate, let's hope so (wanna make sure I'm properly ready for it - unlike my siege tactics on Left Unconquerable.
Ciderslider - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to deacondeacon: Very kind of you to say so mate, but don't forget I'm an old geezer ;-)

I've changed mine now - and it's to just watch whilst you have a go at Masters Edge.
Ciderslider - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Mick Ward: Bloody hell Mick !!!!!! E5 solo !!!!!!
Tom Last - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Good plan :)
Mick Ward - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Don't worry, I'm sure it'll be back down to Diff in the next Rockfax! In the general scheme of things, no big deal.

Sooner or later, I'll be reduced to struggling on The Ordinary Route on the Idwal Slabs. As long as the craic's good, it'll be worth it.

Mick
1poundSOCKS - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: Grade-wise, I suspect it'll always be one grade harder than I've done already. Route-wise, too many to name.
JimboWizbo - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
London Wall
Nosferatu

Then I'll die happy

I don't care if they're headpointed either
paul__in_sheffield - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: the John Allen grit routes, even if I am doing them highball style over a pile of very thick mats. Wish I could say the same about the Big Ron problems.
Nath93 - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: HVS or E1 would send me into a world of amazing routes and would mean i could probably second harder and therefore not hold back any climbing partners pushing harder. But just being very steady in the HS-VS range is where i am aiming at the moment.

In terms of HVS/E1 routes i aspire to, Centurion on the Ben, King Cobra on SMcC and Unicorn on SCNL.
Dino Dave - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: realistic E3 onsight
Optimistic E4 onsight
If I have a good day, an E5 onsight (London wall)
BnB - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Nath93: I'm with Nathan. Been climbing rock 5 months and feeling inadequate in the face of all those lovely climbs that I can't lead yet. How you doing matey?

Got spanked on a couple of VSs at Almscliff this Sunday. I believe I'm not the first to have met more than their match at the 'cliff.
Nath93 - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to BnB: Exactly right fella, difficult to imagine being able to lead such routes.

All is well in the Fort matey, currently nursing an injured foot which means the Ben is a no go for the foreseeable future and rock boots aren't ideal for it either. Damn my drunken dancing antics ! Just got to focus on college work and getting ready for winter.

I'm sure you'll be back to get them VS's one day soon enough.
Jonny2vests - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I'd always dreamed of onsighting The Brandler Hasse, 17 pitches of up to E5 climbing, but I moved to Canada by accident.

These days, some of the big trad 5.12s on the Squamish Chief would do nicely, although it may have to wait until I've finished having children.
John_Hat - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Best I've ever done was E4 onsight with a rope and E2 solo, but that was before shoulder operation and I appreciate it'll be next year at the earliest before I can even approach that level again - best this year has been E2.

Aspirations? Obsession Fatale, Onsight, Please. It might appear a high ambition, but there's no point having low ambitions!

Mind you getting E5 headpoint would keep me chuffed for several years at present :-)

As people probably know on here from my constant wittering on the subject, where I am now is more in doing silly numbers of routes in a day. In terms of that objective I want to get to the 500.
John_Hat - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to BnB:

>
> Got spanked on a couple of VSs at Almscliff this Sunday. I believe I'm not the first to have met more than their match at the 'cliff.

It used to be said that the sign of a good climber was to do all the VDiffs in Almscliff in a day.

Being spanked by Almscliff VS's is normal :-)
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mark s - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: id be just happy doing E5 again.not bothered about doing the hard stuff anymore,too much risk and im not going to take those risks again
dutybooty - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
ED2
VII
M7
E2

Should give me an awesome, achievable alpine ticklist :D
climbingpixie - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I'd love to do The Axe, it's been on my wishlist for a long time. If I could do that and Great Wall in one day it would be glorious and I think it's a fairly realistic goal for next summer. A little more aspirationally is Right Wall and London Wall but they seem a lot further away...
ripper - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to kingholmesy:
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
>
> I always seem to aspire to one grade more than what I'm currently climbing. Why is it that the best looking routes in the guide are the ones just slightly out of reach?

Me too - I don't pay much attention to the ones I can't imagine myself doing, but dream about things like Great Slab at Froggat, Snivling Shits, Deep Space at Mother Carey's, Cenotaph Corner, Cemetary Gates and Left Wall, Star Wars at Bosherston... also big stuff like Don Quixote on the Marmolada, S Face of Rosengarten, N Face of Cima Grande....
Trevers - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I'll be disappointed if I don't make it to leading E1. Worst comes to worst I'm sure I can pay something in beer to haul me up Cemetary Gates and Cenotaph Corner.
Joughton on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to climbingpixie: My big aspirations in climbing revolve around short section of Pembrokeshire coastline! A few years ago my main goals were onsights of classic E5s like Get Some In, The Minotaur and Head Hunter, but lots of sport climbing meant I've been able tick those off in the past year.

The new targets are onsights of the big E7s and 8s around Huntsman's and Stennis Ford - Terminal Twilight, Nothing to Fear, Chupacabra, From a Distance, Point Blank, Dusk til Dawn.
But they'll have to wait a while yet, as I've mostly been trad climbing recently I'll have to do a lot more sport climbing to get a lot fitter and stronger enough for ~8a trad onsights.
johncoxmysteriously - on 10 Sep 2013
In reply to Calder:

>Mine has been Shibboleth since day one. And therefore E2....

>Once that's done I'll move the goalposts a couple of grades

If you ask me you already will have done!

jcm
misterb - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
E6 6a/B
souls
ghost train
cystitus by proxy
the rainbow of recalcitrance
lord of the flies
and many more
probably never get strong or brave enough though



Calder - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to Calder)
>
> If you ask me you already will have done!
>
> jcm

I'll bear that in mind! Thanks.
BnB - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Nath93:
> (In reply to BnB) Exactly right fella, difficult to imagine being able to lead such routes.
>
> All is well in the Fort matey, currently nursing an injured foot which means the Ben is a no go for the foreseeable future and rock boots aren't ideal for it either. Damn my drunken dancing antics ! Just got to focus on college work and getting ready for winter.
>
> I'm sure you'll be back to get them VS's one day soon enough.

Sorry to hear about your foot. I hope she was worth it! It seems we're the only HS punters on UKC nowadays, everyone else is an E grade athlete of some sort!!

I'll get my coat (cagoule)...
Bulls Crack - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Always the next one - whatever grade I happen to be climbing at that moment!
Milesy - on 11 Sep 2013
I've spent so much time cragging I have lost sight of my first love - the hills. I am cragging happily at HVS, but I want to aim to be punching a few more grades above that if only I can get on the big classic Scottish mountain routes at VS-E1. I'e been getting enough done that I feel ready to try and lead some E1 routes, but the change of weather and daylight is now conspiring against me.
victim of mathematics - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

The things I aspire to are mostly things I could probably climb at the moment. Stuff like Shrike, Beast From The Undergrowth, Desolation Row, Elegy, Dream Of Wild Turkeys (I'm going to Red Rocks next month) etc etc.

I've never been very good at aiming for things much beyond that because they look really hard! The Axe does look amazing though...
jkarran - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Into the 8s redpoint. No specific goals as yet at that level since I'm still a little way off and not improving fast. I'd like to do Comedy and Dominatrix next season as medium term goals at 7c.

I've always been inspired by that picture of John Dunne on Divided Years so who knows, if I ever get fit enough and I can still remember how my cams work it's not an absurd goal.

In the shorter term Bloody Sunday, Cougar, Left wall (both), Atomic, DOWH, Path to Rome, High Noon, Wall of Horrors, Cemetery Gates, Comes the Dervish... There's loads I never seem to get round to, grow the balls for or keep falling off.

jk
fire_munki on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
Short term S and HS, and 6a/b sport.
Long term I guess an E grade and top 6c.
Ally Smith on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

8c RP - Unjustified & Fish Eye
8a on-sight? Some Euro stamina fest
NIAD
E9 HP - no particular aspiration, but needs to be safe. My days of dangerous HP'ing are over. Saying that, Face Mecca on Cloggy had always intrigued me...
E7 on-sight - Something in Pembroke? Probably a soft-touch Pickford route ;-)
Jon Stewart - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I've wanted to Eroica for a couple of years, and I'm just about ready now, just need the opportunity to present itself.

I'd also love to do Track of the Cat, but I'm definitely not ready for that. I'm pretty certain I'll not lead many E5s if any at all, but Track of the Cat seems pretty achievable should everything come together in that grit confidence/magic/voodoo way.

Withouy getting a huge amount better, there are loads of routes in the low E grades I'm really psyched for. I don't feel a massive pressing need to up my game particularly to continue to get a massive buzz out of climbing. I am pretty content to be a low-E plodder, after all, I never thought I'd get near leading E3s and the odd soft-touch E4.
Jon Stewart - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
>
> The things I aspire to are mostly things I could probably climb... Beast From The Undergrowth

Not really worth aspiring to IMO. Presumably you've done the E1, so it's not a matter of ticking the Leap - something on the Monster Face would offer a much more memorable experience. The best Pembroke E2 I reckon is Silver Shadow - truly awesome, never desperate but damn meaty and adventurous.
Nick Russell on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
> grade/route do you hope to do?.

Grade? The next one! Routes? There's so much inspiring stuff out there, my UKC wishlist is just the start... Basically any route that I see an awesome photo of gets put in my mental wishlist
victim of mathematics - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
> [...]
>
> Not really worth aspiring to IMO. Presumably you've done the E1, so it's not a matter of ticking the Leap - something on the Monster Face would offer a much more memorable experience. The best Pembroke E2 I reckon is Silver Shadow - truly awesome, never desperate but damn meaty and adventurous.

Actually I've never climbed in The Leap, and Beast is reputedly much better than Shape-Up. I'm not expecting the actual climbing to blow my mind, it just feels like a rite of passage of some kind.

There's loads of other Pembroke E2s that I'm also psyched for, but I plan to get a bit fitter first. As it was I was having to be quite selective about the E1s I throw my puny arms at...
Jon Stewart - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
> [...]
>
> Actually I've never climbed in The Leap, and Beast is reputedly much better than Shape-Up. I'm not expecting the actual climbing to blow my mind, it just feels like a rite of passage of some kind.

That makes more sense. My favourite thing about the leap is the weird acoustics, the actual climbing is a bit meh (and that includes seconding the classics on the West Wall which are permadamp and chalk-plastered...not stuff I was thinking, "I wish I was leading this" by any means).

> There's loads of other Pembroke E2s that I'm also psyched for, but I plan to get a bit fitter first. As it was I was having to be quite selective about the E1s I throw my puny arms at...

Sounds like you may have to grasp the indoor nettle? I'll be looking for a training partner this winter, how does the idea of doing a million laps down The Edge grab you?

teflonpete - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Long term, I aspire to onsight E2. I've picked off a few soft E1s over the last few years but had a gap of 6 months with no climbing this summer. Short term aspiration is to get wall fit again this winter, get back to leading soft E1 and pick off a few selected E1s and HVSs next summer in a few weekend Pembrokefests.
victim of mathematics - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Sounds like you may have to grasp the indoor nettle? I'll be looking for a training partner this winter, how does the idea of doing a million laps down The Edge grab you?

Sounds awful.

Count me in.

I'm not grasping any nettles though...
Franco Cookson on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Moors H12.
Skyfall - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I peaked at slabby E2, a couple of times. Due to a lot of injuries (and old age lol) I slipped back a lot, lost some inspiration and trad boldness. Focussed too much on bolt clipping (not really sports climbing as I've never tried RP) but only got to about f6b+ tops.

I've come to accept I don't have the talent or, probably just as importantly, the inclination to push myself hard enough to get vastly better. Having said that, when I am uninjured I have been climbing more strongly and with better technique so there is no reason why I can't at least get back to where I was and even make modest improvements.

The main focus for me is to really get back into trad and up into onsighting in the low E's again. I'd gotten lazy and was doing a lot of repeats. Although not yet really climbing fit after the latest round of injuries, I've done a fair amount of VS/HVS on-sighting the last few months and really enjoyed the adventure again. So, it's more about getting the adventure back than grade per se. Still, I have a hankering to do some big solid E2's such as Left Wall and Vector which may, with some perseverance, happen one day. Must be something to do with the Welsh blood in my veins.

Oh and push my sports grade to 6c/7a. I think I can get there or thereabouts, hope.
MarkRoe - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

To be consistent at onsighting E4 and E5 terrain without drama.

Being able to ascend routes like Poetry Pink, Ringwraith, Trilogy and Right Wall in excellent style would make me a happy man.

I'd like to think that goal is not toooooo far away, as long as I don't develop a serious case of coward-itus.
Jimbo C - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I'd like to think that I'll reach E4 and maybe the odd E5 within the next 10 years or so. It's perfectly possible if I put any sort of effort into training. The main reason would be to be able to enjoy a wider gamut of classic routes. In the Peak there are a number of cracking looking routes in the E2 to E5 range and I'd love to be capable of routes like Quietus, Stormbringer, Moonwalk...
GridNorth - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: I always wanted to do Great Wall on Cloggy and Dream/Liberator at Bosigran amongst a few other classics of similar grade. Unfortunately when I was climbing well enough to do them, at least in theory, events and circumstances conspired to prevent me. I'm currently an ageing but competent E2 leader so there may still be a chance although I am far too lazy to train. My training comprises just doing more climbing and that is proving difficult.
leon on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
Based on Extreme Rock I aspire to Lakes E3 & Right Wall.
Al Evans on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to climbingpixie:
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
>
> I'd love to do The Axe, it's been on my wishlist for a long time. If I could do that and Great Wall in one day it would be glorious and I think it's a fairly realistic goal for next summer. A little more aspirationally is Right Wall and London Wall but they seem a lot further away...

I'm not certain but I think it's climbingpixie that led me up Satans Slip a few years back, if it was you girl, then your complete composure on that ascent indicates to me that all your goals are within your capabilities.
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Si dH - on 11 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
Being solid at E4 with the odd E5 would be nice. Doing things like Resurrection, The Axe and Great Wall, and also being able to do some of the big peak limestone routes like Our Father, Ambler Gambler, Supersonic - they look awesome.

Not really sure what to say on sport as I've already surpassed where I thought I'd get to. F8a would would be pretty awesome (maybe next year if I really man up?) I'm going to say F8a+ because doing Monumental Armblaster would be amazing, even though I'd probably never get on it.

It's all academic though because if I ever reach these goals it's not as if I'll sit back and carry on, I'll just be trying to climb E6 and 8b...!
Nath93 - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to BnB: Unfortunately i went home alone that night, a regular thing it would seem !

I'm not even a HS punter, steady seconding it and VS but don't know when i'll be able to lead at it, pretty soon i'm hoping.

When you back up this neck of the woods anyway ?
BnB - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Nath93: Next opportunity is the week of 23rd September. Missed my slot earlier in this month when the weather crapped out. Will be deciding in about a week's time when I see the forecast. No complaints owing to fantastic summer we've had but where's the usual September back to school sunshine?

I'll definitely let you know if I'm coming up. Will stopover in your vicinity on the way to Sleat and do something in Glencoe or on the North Face. Is Cameron in the Fort as well?

HS is not so bad as long as you keep away from jamming cracks. Those can be brutal, but I guess it's a skill must be acquired.
KellyKettle - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: Russian Alpine 5b - Pik Pobeda

Mixed VI/7

I also aspire to climb Aber falls, which probably requires more in the way of weather control abilities than climbing skills (it's apparently only WI4)

Oh, and I guess I'll have to get up to a good E3 standard to even contemplate reaching the other goals, Who know's if I'll achieve any of them?
steve taylor - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Once I'm un-retired, I'd like to get back to E3/4 and onsighting F7a.

Right Wall is the ultimate aim though - should have done it when I was "fit" 18 years ago.
Steve Crowe - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I'd like to climb the classic new crimpy white 8a at Sunderland Wall before it gets stripped off.
nniff - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Dream/Liberator and Resurrection, but I tend to go one aspiration at a time. I'd like to be as confident on E3 6a as I am on E3 5c, but I have a permanent anxiety that I'll get stopped dead. once I've got over that little worry bead, E4 awaits. Hence the routes above - if I can do Dream/Liberator I'll maybe stand a chance on Resurrection.
Jon Stewart - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to nniff:
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
>
> Dream/Liberator and Resurrection, but I tend to go one aspiration at a time. I'd like to be as confident on E3 6a as I am on E3 5c, but I have a permanent anxiety that I'll get stopped dead. once I've got over that little worry bead, E4 awaits. Hence the routes above - if I can do Dream/Liberator I'll maybe stand a chance on Resurrection.

Quite similar goals to me, I'd love to do those routes. I expect that Dream/Liberator would be harder, Resurrection being a more straightforward pulling-on-holds route (that will respond to training if you don't think you have the physical capacity). Cornish sandbag E3 has to be a fair bit harder than standard Pass E4, no?
remus - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to climbingpixie)
> [...]
>
> I'm not certain but I think it's climbingpixie that led me up Satans Slip a few years back, if it was you girl, then your complete composure on that ascent indicates to me that all your goals are within your capabilities.

One thing I've found quite interesting about this thread is how modest and achievable most people's goals are, especially considering these are aspirational, long term type things.

With a few exceptions it seems most peoples dream routes are at about E4/5 or below. In terms of difficulty, if you're onsighting f7a pretty consistently you'll be able to get up 95% of E4s and a big slice of E5s. f7a is really pretty easy in the grand scheme of things, with the exception of the disabled I'd speculate that pretty much anyone could climb f7a within a few years if they really put their mind to it. Plus a couple more years to get solid at f7a then you're goals are pretty much in the bag.

Given that this is obviously not happening my conclusion is that people just aren't that motivated for these big goals.
GridNorth - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus: Getting up them and leading them are two different things and as far as I am aware only a minority of climbers even get into the Extremes never mind the E5's. I know loads of 7a climbers who turn into jibbering wrecks on VS's.
victim of mathematics - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus:

I think the operative phrase there is 'if they put their mind to it'.
Jon Stewart - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus:
> (In reply to Al Evans)

> [...] In terms of difficulty, if you're onsighting f7a pretty consistently you'll be able to get up 95% of E4s and a big slice of E5s. f7a is really pretty easy in the grand scheme of things, with the exception of the disabled I'd speculate that pretty much anyone could climb f7a within a few years if they really put their mind to it. Plus a couple more years to get solid at f7a then you're goals are pretty much in the bag.
>
> Given that this is obviously not happening my conclusion is that people just aren't that motivated for these big goals.

Good points, but I think what it really shows is that people aren't really that goal-orientated (I'm certainly not). If all I wanted to do was get solid at E4, I would spend all my time training rather than actually climbing - i.e. I would make it my mission to be able to onsight 7a. That would involve climbing loads and loads of crap routes on depressing polished limestone. What I do is climb loads of routes that are amazing, around E2/3 which isn't the quickest way to E4/5 by any means, but it is climbing for the experience now rather than training to do something later.

Also, depending on the types of routes you aspire to, it can be hard to translate ability bouldering and sport climbing to trad. The routes many people aspire to won't be climbed by getting to f7a because they're nothing like f7as. Something like Dream Liberator is going to take a fair bit of trad experience to get to grips with, whereas something at say Lower Sharpnose at that grade or harder could probably be achieved quickly after learning to climb indoors. Climbing E5 in Pembroke is a different proposition (doable via f7a) to climbing E5 on grit.
GrendeI on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: WI6 - Ice nine I can't look at it without drooling!
dl_wraith - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus: in my own limited experience I'm finding that the classic risk taking, hard pushing, driven climbing tropes seemingly common before are now joined by a whole rank and file of recreational climbers and people that just don't have that fearless aspect associated with climbers of previous generations.

I don't think the fearless and the hungry are any less common than before, its just that theres more of us now thanks to the inclusivity of practitioners in this particular sport. With the extra people comes a wider breakdown of personalities and people with other hobbies, attitudes and life pressures.

The age of the climbing community being mostly bold, experienced and driven characters has perhaps given way to something a little broader. I could be wrong but its how it looks to me.

Anyhoo, to answer the OP, my own goal is to lead multi-pitch E-grade climbs and boulder above v5. Not easy with my joints but I'm determined! Beyond that I'd love to go to the US and do some of the iconic areas there and to attack some sea overhangs in the med. I'm not picky about the routes, so far I love what I do and am just frustrated that I can't improve faster!

Greenbanks - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Resolution (Gogarth) was a long-time aspiration of mine (great name, nice route).

Now, sadly, I am just summoning the resolve to get up Middlefell Buttress
Luke Owens - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Carte Blanche - F8a - Ceuse
remus - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I agree on all fronts.

> Good points, but I think what it really shows is that people aren't really that goal-orientated (I'm certainly not). If all I wanted to do was get solid at E4, I would spend all my time training rather than actually climbing - i.e. I would make it my mission to be able to onsight 7a. That would involve climbing loads and loads of crap routes on depressing polished limestone. What I do is climb loads of routes that are amazing, around E2/3 which isn't the quickest way to E4/5 by any means, but it is climbing for the experience now rather than training to do something later.

This is what I was getting at when I said "Given that this is obviously not happening my conclusion is that people just aren't that motivated for these big goals." I guess the underlying point is that most peoples primary goals are not 'I want to climb route X in style Y' but more 'i want to climb routes that are about Z hard for me and enjoy it.' Nothing bad about that, we are mostly in it for the enjoyment after all (though whether the gratification is instant is another matter!)

> Also, depending on the types of routes you aspire to, it can be hard to translate ability bouldering and sport climbing to trad. The routes many people aspire to won't be climbed by getting to f7a because they're nothing like f7as. Something like Dream Liberator is going to take a fair bit of trad experience to get to grips with, whereas something at say Lower Sharpnose at that grade or harder could probably be achieved quickly after learning to climb indoors. Climbing E5 in Pembroke is a different proposition (doable via f7a) to climbing E5 on grit.

Whod want to climb E5 on grit anyway? It's all luck based scrittle ;)
Jon Stewart - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> I agree on all fronts.
>
> [...]
>
> I guess the underlying point is that most peoples primary goals are not 'I want to climb route X in style Y' but more 'i want to climb routes that are about Z hard for me and enjoy it.' Nothing bad about that, we are mostly in it for the enjoyment after all (though whether the gratification is instant is another matter!)

Exactly, but speaking for myself, climbing for now is a lot less chilled out than you make it sound. I'm not always pottering up routes withing my comfort zone and having a lovely time (although I do a fair bit of that), quite often I'm nearly falling off an E3 in a big, serious situation. In the long term it's not pushing particularly hard, but the actual climbing involves fiddling gear in pumped out of my box knowing that I'll have a long fall and a prusic out if I don't manage to scrape through the crux. It is intense and it is trying hard, it's just not goal oriented. If that's how you spend your time you don't tend to progress quickly the way you would if you spent that time training/sport climbing to achieve a long term goal.

> Whod want to climb E5 on grit anyway? It's all luck based scrittle ;)

Intense buzz though, if you get away with your ankles intact.

1poundSOCKS - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus: Most people don't see being solid at 7a as modest.
Jon Stewart - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
> (In reply to remus) Most people don't see being solid at 7a as modest.

I think it might depend a bit on the age you start climbing. I think for a teenager, getting to 7a is probably piss, for a whole load of reasons.
deacondeacon - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus: in my experience I feel very motivated. I climb between 5-7 days a week with a mixture of outdoors and indoors. Last year I dedicated a couple of months to try and get stuck into some french 7's but just couldn't get into it. I've climbed up to E4 and bouldered up to F7B but just couldn't get the grades leading indoors ( I managed to redpoint two 7a's).
Now I really expected to get into 7b/7c territory and felt pretty dejected about the whole thing. But it definitely wasn't motivation that was letting me down.
And the worst part about it is I know I'll be trying again this winter.
willworkforfoodjnr - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: Rope solo of the west face of the leaning tower

(and the nose, obvs)
1poundSOCKS - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart: Maybe, the comment was just based on the majority I see at the crag, or at the wall. I don't see that many people cruising up 7a from any age group. There were more in a place like Siurana, but even there most people seemed to be hit and miss at best on 7a and above.
seankenny - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to deacondeacon:
> Last year I dedicated a couple of months to try and get stuck into some french 7's but just couldn't get into it. I've climbed up to E4 and bouldered up to F7B but just couldn't get the grades leading indoors ( I managed to redpoint two 7a's).

What was shutting you down? Lack of stamina/PE?
Jon Stewart - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to seankenny:
> (In reply to deacondeacon)
> [...]
>
> What was shutting you down? Lack of stamina/PE?

I think the main problem was that it wasn't Stanage ;)
Ally Smith on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Luke Owens:
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
>
> Carte Blanche - F8a - Ceuse

Lots of stamina training for you this winter then...
remus - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to 1poundSOCKS: I said most people could if they put their minds to it. At the end of the day most people just aren't motivated in that direction so they don't work in that direction and thus don't improve in that direction.
teflonpete - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to 1poundSOCKS)
> [...]
>
> I think it might depend a bit on the age you start climbing. I think for a teenager, getting to 7a is probably piss, for a whole load of reasons.

Spot on. In a great many cases, with age comes responsibility and priorities in time management. If you're young, flexible, and have the time to train and climb above all else, 7a in your teens / early 20s should be achievable. Stick 20 years, a career and family onto that before you start climbing and it changes the game considerably. Climbing indoors one evening a week and one day or weekend trip to a crag every month at best considerably reduces opportunity to progress through the grades. From what I've seen, I think I'm fairly representative of people with a similar demographic to me. Started climbing at the age of 40, commitments limiting climbing time and stuck in a VS / HVS / occasional E1 rut outdoors and a 6a+ - 6b+ rut indoors. Having aspirations to lead Indian Face would be pointless so instead we look for inspiration to great and / or classic routes at achievable grades. Wish I'd started climbing earlier in life but I didn't and there are still some fantastic routes out there at a grade I could achieve. That's part of what makes climbing so good. :0)
humptydumpty - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I'd like to climb the Titan one day (http://www.mountainproject.com/v/the-titan/105717006 , http://www.mountainproject.com/v/finger-of-fate/105717568 ). It's only 5.8, but looks...exciting!

Other than that, onsight an E1 by the end of the year.
Skyfall - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to teflonpete:

Very similar to my own position. Throw in injury woes and distance from crags and you have to find inspiration in ways other than simple grade progression.
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1poundSOCKS - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus: Sorry, I thought you said their aspirations where modest.
remus - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to teflonpete: I think that's still largely a question of motivation. Countless examples show that, even for people with significant time constraints, if they're suitably motivated for their goals then they tend to make time for them and put the work in.

Of course it's not necessarily a good thing. Undoubtedly other aspects of your life will suffer if you're putting a lot in to climbing. My over arching point is just that, for most, climbing hard is pretty low down on the priorities list, but if for whatever reason it where to be bumped up the list then I suspect most people would achieve their goals relatively quickly.
remus - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to 1poundSOCKS: Modest in the grand scheme of things, where 'hard' climbing doesn't start until 8c.
Lusk - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

If you're after an E2, go for this...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=46529

Great climb. I've TR it, slab bit too scary for me!
Simon's Seat is a fantastic place anyway.
Jon Stewart - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus:
> (In reply to teflonpete) I think that's still largely a question of motivation. Countless examples show that, even for people with significant time constraints, if they're suitably motivated for their goals then they tend to make time for them and put the work in.
>
> Of course it's not necessarily a good thing. Undoubtedly other aspects of your life will suffer if you're putting a lot in to climbing. My over arching point is just that, for most, climbing hard is pretty low down on the priorities list, but if for whatever reason it where to be bumped up the list then I suspect most people would achieve their goals relatively quickly.

Absolutely. Reminds me of the stuff in Rock Warrior's Way about examining your motivation and appreciating that it is a choice to set your priorities the way you do. I find it helps me enjoy climbing more if I remember that I climb at the level I do because I choose to, rather than because something external stops me climbing harder. If I wanted to (especially given the lack of other pressing priorities in my life at the moment) I could decide to spend my time differently and climb harder - even without changing how much time I devote to climbing, just by using it differently. If every time I fancied pottering around on the grit I trained on a systems board really hard until I was fooked, I would be much, much stronger.
1poundSOCKS - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to remus: That's a very exact definition of hard! :) I just think of climbing hard as pushing yourself, the exact grade is relative.
French Erick - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
Aspirational but now seriously training for it with a deadline of "in 4 years-october break 2017" my dream route is multi-pitch E5/6.

But more to the point, and possibly better for my climbing, I just want to become good at a style of climbing I love: cracks of all sizes: tips to OW.

As for winter- I'd like to O/S a few VIIIs. What I am likely to do is to keep ticking a few class VIIs.

I think Remus has a point- I think I never committed enough proper time to the grind of getting better. Can't stand redpointing and keep to O/S for example. So can I reach my goals? Yes , if I decide to dig deep enough... I'd say that even with that my chances of O/S of the dream multi-pitch are 40/60, even if I stick to my planning. But hey, who cares, it's all good fun!
deacondeacon - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:

>
> I think the main problem was that it wasn't Stanage ;)

You have a point, almost all my climbing is glorified bouldering so I shouldn't be surprised when I get spanked by anything longer than 10 metres :)

deacondeacon - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to seankenny:

>
> What was shutting you down? Lack of stamina/PE?

Yeah power endurance. I can always do the moves in isolation but stringing them together and I get pumped very quickly. I even struggle with longish boulder problems.

I take a fair bit of medication for a f**ked heart and was wondering if this could be having an effect although I'm probably trying to find excuses lol.




James Jackson on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Solid at E2. Left Wall.
andy farnell - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: I'd like to think 8b is reachable. One of the longer ones in Yorkshire, The Ripper most probably as it suits my style. Bouldering wise 7C+, but that'll take a lot of training.

Andy F
another_alex - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:
Never been hugely bothered about grades. This year's goal was to learn everything I needed to do single-pitch trad without anyone more experienced around (and I've done it now :D ). Next year's goal will be learning everything I need for multi-pitch including self-rescue skills. After that I'm not sure - will see what I feel like doing.
Jon Stewart - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to another_alex:
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
> Never been hugely bothered about grades.

Just you wait...!
MischaHY - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to 1poundSOCKS)
> [...]
>
> I think it might depend a bit on the age you start climbing. I think for a teenager, getting to 7a is probably piss, for a whole load of reasons.

I would agree with this, on the grounds of youth, fitness and lack of major responsibility, along with a lot more time to dedicate to training. I've gone from leading 6b with rests to flashing 7a+ in around 4 months. Mainly because I just decided to train, and dedicated a whole bunch of time too it.

My problem is I no longer see 7a as remotely worthwhile in the long term. This winter is going to be an absolute training fest to get as strong and improve my technique as much as possible. Goals are a little difficult to place as I don't know how the progression will continue, but I'd like to be redpointing 7c/+ by the start of next season. We'll see, it might be over-ambitious.
JayPee630 - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:


Hardest I've ever led consistently was VS, with a few HVSs. After a few years I've slipped back to Severe and below.

I'd love to get to HVS consistently and be able to lead Dream of White Horses.

How I'm going to manage that with a few hours at the wall once a week at best, and one day outdoors a month (if I'm lucky!) I'm not sure!
seankenny - on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to deacondeacon:

I'm sure a few weeks or months of circuits and the like would have quite an effect.
needvert on 12 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

To be able to onsight E1s reliably. Long way to go...But I'll get there :)
MikeLell - on 15 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: Leading most E1s and E2s enjoyably with A cool head, then could happily do less trad cragging in favour of more winter and alpine stuff.
Timmd on 15 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

I aspire to climb Flying Buttress Direct at Stanage, should my elbows recover enough for the overhanging part, I'll be very pleased.
NateDangerJones - on 15 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: After watching wideboyz with my bud we decided that next summer we're having an e3 summer just so we had a target to train for, we're currently climbing e1 so a bit of work to do, but i think having targets really focuses training
Mark Warnett - on 15 Sep 2013
Make it Elegy and Left Wall. I thought the actual climbing on CG was very average albeit a good position.

I'd like to climb Resurrection and be solid at E4 for a season before kids!
climbingpixie - on 15 Sep 2013
In reply to Al Evans:

Yes, that was me <waves>. It was a great day and a great route, one that I'll always remember from my first trip to Lundy.
climbingpixie - on 15 Sep 2013
In reply to remus:

> f7a is really pretty easy in the grand scheme of things, with the exception of the disabled I'd speculate that pretty much anyone could climb f7a within a few years if they really put their mind to it.

A couple of weeks ago I might have disagreed with this but I've just got back from a trip to the Gorges du Tarn where onsighting 7a was pretty much entry level, and most people seemed to be closer to the 7c mark. Plus the bolting out there is pretty sparse - seeing a friend trying Les Ailes Du Desir and falling off trying to clip, 6m above the last bolt, was pretty exciting!
The Pylon King on 15 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

After climbing for about 4 years i got to being pretty steady at E2 for several years and ticked quite a few classics around the country (and the odd E3). Then health problems, having a child and not wanting to get scared all the time got in the way.

I dont really care anymore.
Baron Weasel - on 15 Sep 2013
In reply to The Pylon King:

>
> I dont really care anymore.

Ditto, I was obsessed with grade as a youth. Now I enjoy cool times with friends, amazing positions and sweet moves on hard rock.

Ok, so I aspire to climb the Nose one day. Kilnsey main overhang then the Scoop first though.
DubyaJamesDubya - on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to nniff)
> [...]
>
> I expect that Dream/Liberator would be harder, Resurrection being a more straightforward pulling-on-holds route (that will respond to training if you don't think you have the physical capacity). Cornish sandbag E3 has to be a fair bit harder than standard Pass E4, no?

Actually I've always found Cornish grades quite reasonable but I've known very good Peak-based climbers who don't get on with climbing there.
I've think the key is getting acclimatised to the rock before pushing too hard.

pork pie girl - on 18 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:at the moment i'm very malhamcentric ... so... 8a 8a+ ..on the left wall there... all those lines look amazing.

winter (if i start winter climbing again) vII,7

trad.. haven't thought about it for a couple of seasons
seanhendo123 - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: For me always the next grade, I like challenging myself and bumping up grades is an easy way to do this . . . aimed to lead an E1 before end of the year, now its done I want to get as many E1's under my belt and start looking at E2's . . .
mrdigitaljedi - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider: Either mississippi or gargoyle buttress will do..............
Mountain Spirit - on 19 Sep 2013
In reply to Ciderslider:

Hello.

What time scale are you talking about - soon or in the far distance future (10 years time for example)?

I am avery strong and technical climber but I am overweight.

Bye

Savvas
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