/ Lakes conditions

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Wesley Orvis - on 19 Dec 2013
Just been for a walk up Red Screes after work, 0 degrees at the pass at 6 o'clock and snow falling fast, car park completely white, had to turn around half way up the path due not having my microspikes and lots of verglassed rock and slippy snow oh and the thought of not getting down the pass due to the ammount of snow and got work tomorrow. Looks like winter has started in the Lakes.
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Thanks
Dave Perry - on 20 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
But a SW wind tomorrow And 8 deg C should thaw it all out. Don't cross your fingers yet.

Wesley Orvis - on 20 Dec 2013
In reply to Dave Perry:
> (In reply to Wesley Orvis)
> But a SW wind tomorrow And 8 deg C should thaw it all out. Don't cross your fingers yet.

Looking good Sunday onwards though, its 6.5 degrees outside and raining heavy could quite easily be falling as snow up high and a bit of freeze thaw will do it good imo.
Dave Cumberland - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

The Lake District is currently awash with water, roads are rivers and lakes, drains are blocked, debris everywhere, ground like a wet sponge.

It takes a minimum of one week, sometimes two for valid winter conditions to develop in the Lakes and everyone should remember that.

DC
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Yes it will, and a good covering of wet snow can freeze very quickly when exposed to high winds. Thanks for the second post! Sometimes best just to follow your instinct and at the least it's always good to get out for a walk and build up the hill fitness!

NMM
Gav Parker - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Looking on the Lakes webcams it doesn't look that wintery!

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

> It takes a minimum of one week, sometimes two for valid winter conditions to develop in the Lakes and everyone should remember that.

Funny, I've seen routes in good conditions quicker than that.

Wesley Orvis - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Just got back from Little Mell Fell can say every single bit of snow has been washed from Helvellyn the only thing left was a tiny bit along the top of the east face.

Dave I was meaning for snow falling on Sunday not for climbing you complete imbocile.

Going to stop up the pass tonight as this rain is due to turn to snow high up later on will update tomorrow if any snow falls going to do the edges.
Wesley Orvis - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
> (In reply to Wesley Orvis)
>
> Yes it will, and a good covering of wet snow can freeze very quickly when exposed to high winds. Thanks for the second post! Sometimes best just to follow your instinct and at the least it's always good to get out for a walk and build up the hill fitness!
>
> NMM

Cheers, yes thats what i thought today I knew it was going to be wild and wet but wanted to see if any snow had survived, unfortunately none had but more due tonight and tomorrow then Monday looking slighlty milder again.

Cardi - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

A good freeze first is a must.

Awesome amount of snow the last few years at times in north Wales, and presumably the Lakes, but often all it did was insulate the soggyness below without creating good conditions
Dave Cumberland - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> Just got back from Little Mell Fell can say every single bit of snow has been washed from Helvellyn the only thing left was a tiny bit along the top of the east face.

> Dave I was meaning for snow falling on Sunday not for climbing you complete imbocile.

> Going to stop up the pass tonight as this rain is due to turn to snow high up later on will update tomorrow if any snow falls going to do the edges.


If you are going to be the perfect gentleman and call people that know more than you will ever dream about, please spell imbecile correctly.
DC
j0ntyg on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

This is a good guide to Lakes conditions.
http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/

Radioactiveman - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Check out last years winter conditions thread for further evidence of Wesley Orvis and his lovely internet manners.....


Good to see people keen to let people know about the conditions but no need for the abuse.
xplorer on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Radioactiveman, Dave, cardi

Why does every one feel the need to preach and try and pretend they have loads of wisdom every time some one writes about conditions.

At no point did Wesley say there are climbing conditions or that he was going to climb a route.

Seriously it's only the climbing community that act like complete and utter dick heads consistently. Not that I'm calling you dick heads. :-)

Smile people! Haha
smithaldo - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to xplorer: I was going to hold my tounge but... the reason people post like that is because young punks like you post utter nonsense about conditions. For instance you post reports about back tor and mam tor like you have climbed them when it's just assumptions and wrong assumptions.

Wesley Orvis - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
It's 2.5 degrees at the pass now and the rain is turning to snow temps dropping further too.
Cheers explorer.
Dave I am just letting people who like snow know if snow is on the ground at this moment in time, for winter walking that's all as some people like me are happy even if conditions aren't in but all is white. Spelling is not my strong point but I am on an I phone on the pass in 70 mile an hour winds and the van is rocking sorry if I am not checking my grammar
Dave Cumberland - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> It's 2.5 degrees at the pass now and the rain is turning to snow temps dropping further too.

> Cheers explorer.

> Dave I am just letting people who like snow know if snow is on the ground at this moment in time, for winter walking that's all as some people like me are happy even if conditions aren't in but all is white. Spelling is not my strong point but I am on an I phone on the pass in 70 mile an hour winds and the van is rocking sorry if I am not checking my grammar

I accept your apology - you clearly ARE a gentleman. Let's keep the discussion about climbing. I have never seen so much rain since the 2009 floods.
DC
Dave Ferguson - on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
> Looks like winter has started in the Lakes.

If you mean its warm, very wet and windy then you're right, winter has started in the lakes.


xplorer on 21 Dec 2013
In reply to smithaldo:

> I was going to hold my tounge but... the reason people post like that is because young punks like you post utter nonsense about conditions. For instance you post reports about back tor and mam tor like you have climbed them when it's just assumptions and wrong assumptions.

Where as old punks like you just sit at home and moan about the condition reports....

You are drifting from the point that Wesley didn't say anything was in, if people can't work out the conditions them selves and have to completely rely on reports from UKC they shouldn't be out climbing.

winter climbing isn't just about the climbing, it's about the reading weather reports, actual recent temps and snow fall. If you can't be arsed doing that then don't come online giving people shit.

I can post condition reports about my local area if I like, I spend a lot of time in castleton as I have a friend who lives there, so if the local weather has been suitable and relevant I will post about them. And trust me mam and back tor are not big ascents, I can run up them both in a hour or so, so if will continue to post and give people that bit more information if it helps them.

Old punk

OliBangbala - on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to xplorer:



I'm no winter climber and know deck all about weather but i live in Chapel stile and the weather turned a bit colder this morning and we have had heavy hail, what thats doing on the higher peaks i don't know but just thought i would chip in a ground report
stuart58 - on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to OliBangbala:

Thats good abit of useful info. What I want to know is what did we do before the internet. I just went of f bbc weather forecast. I've been climbing a while now im not a dick head but this thread seems to have had its day its become a slanging thread
LakesWinter on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to stuart58:

Yeah there's a lot of cussing on here - thanks Wes for the initial report on the snow situation
smithaldo - on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to xplorer:

I'm not moaning about conditions report, I'm pointing out the fact that your information is usually rubbish.

And I may be an old punk, but I bet I've done more quality winter routes than you so think I can figure out what might be in condition thanks.

And wow back tor and mam tor in an hour. You must be fast like ueli steck or something.
shaun stephens - on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to smithaldo:

your a 31 yr talking like a child for gods sake man grow up and start contributing in a more positive manner.
sorry mods at ukc but it needed saying

merry xmas to every one hope the conditions do come in and thanks for any info.

XX Shaun
xplorer on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to smithaldo:

> I'm not moaning about conditions report, I'm pointing out the fact that your information is usually rubbish.

> And I may be an old punk, but I bet I've done more quality winter routes than you so think I can figure out what might be in condition thanks.

> And wow back tor and mam tor in an hour. You must be fast like ueli steck or something.

Why are you turning this into a personal debate?

What condition reports are you saying are rubbish? I think you're a little confused....

You started with the age insults mate, and I haven't mentioned your experience!

And you don't have to be Ueli Steck to do them in an hour! You're just being silly now, unless you have something to contribute, go away!

martinph78 on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Don't you just wish there was an "ignore this user" button?

xplorer on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to Martin1978:

> Don't you just wish there was an "ignore this user" button?

or possibly a self controlled way of ignoring particular users, do you need a button for everything? ;-)
martinph78 on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to xplorer:

Maybe you could use some self-control in your replies?

There's that much shit in this thread it's hard to wade through.
xplorer on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to Martin1978:

What!!! Are you for real? Read everything that has been said, and that doesn't just mean reading my post's.
smithaldo - on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to xplorer:

Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you.
richie4088 - on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Well as a new user to the forums I'm astonished by some of the hostility to each other, i thought the climbing community was a little bit friendlier than this?
MFB - on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

walked over scafell pike 10.30am today, challenging, the summit was frozen solid in a brutal wind (estimate -1 and 60mph), all boulders verglassed, hoar starting to build, of course it will have changed by now

john
butteredfrog - on 22 Dec 2013
In reply to shaun stephens:

Ay-up owd lad, fancy a climb when something comes in?
MFB - on 23 Dec 2013
shaun stephens - on 23 Dec 2013
In reply to butteredfrog:

if it ever comes in though scotia is looking good. it would be a treat.
Green-Winged Orchid - on 23 Dec 2013
In reply to MFB:
It were snowing yesterday evening around Westmorland as I came back down from Carlisle. it gave one hope if not a route to climb.
jpicksley - on 23 Dec 2013
In reply to richie4088:

I thought the same, but a few visits to this forum soon shows you that there are some really unpleasant people in the climbing community. I suppose it's just a reflection of normal society. It is a great pity though.
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Dec 2013
In reply to richie4088:
> (In reply to Wesley Orvis)
>
> Well as a new user to the forums I'm astonished by some of the hostility to each other, i thought the climbing community was a little bit friendlier than this?

It's all just friendly banter, Dave is renouned for his protection of the fells in winter and me for my optimism and insults, we call each other one day and mates agian the next don't take it personal.

butteredfrog - on 23 Dec 2013
In reply to shaun stephens:

Up for a trip to Scotland in the new year too!
MFB - on 23 Dec 2013
martinph78 on 23 Dec 2013
In reply to MFB:

Looks like I made the right decision not to come over for Xmas. It was almost as wet last year, but not quite that wet!

MFB - on 23 Dec 2013
In reply to Martin1978:

its not too bad, some wet some dry, bit of hiding in the pub and dashing out when conditions permit - hope to get route in tomorrow
ps to make things a bit easier we now have turbo charged drying rooms powered by woodchip boilers, they run at 30 degrees c and bake campers
cheers John
Dave Cumberland - on 23 Dec 2013
In reply to MFB:

It might be pertinent to say that the Lakes is currently undergoing the wettest spell for a long time, it has come in very wet again this Monday evening from 9-current time, sheeting down after a day of non-stop downpour and flooding.
Acres of water, 8 degrees here at 300 metres.
DC
Wesley Orvis - on 24 Dec 2013
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

grim to put it lightly.
MFB - on 24 Dec 2013
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
In langdale this am -just got back from a bike ride with kids - dry and bright, hope to get route in later

as regards cumbrian weather
I don't think it is particularly wet
I would say that both 2009 and summer of 2012 would be much more extreme in terms of rain
i must stress haven't checked the stats - happy for the numbers to prove me wrong but i would say we are experiencing standard langdale weather

I know the daily mail agrees that its going to be very stormy winter
Post edited at 10:24
Trevers - on 24 Dec 2013
In reply to MFB:

The Express is forecasting the apocalypse as usual
j0ntyg on 24 Dec 2013
In reply to Trevers:

Stay away from the lakes for a couple of days, the weather here is atrocious.
AndrewHuddart - on 24 Dec 2013
Very wet up in the north lakes.

3 degrees at the moment and the rain last night stripped almost everything off the hill. There have been frequent hail and graupel showers so any snowpack which has remained won't be particularly stable.

Bottom line: Nothing in the lakes for a while.
sheeny - on 24 Dec 2013
In reply to AndrewHuddart:

Snow pack!! i think your getting confused with rain mack
AndrewHuddart - on 25 Dec 2013
In reply to sheeny:

Some gully lines were still white with soggy and quite deep snow (rocks all very black) so it might matter down the line.

A less wet day here today and over night there is a nice cosmetic covering on the northern fells at least.

Still no winter climbing though. Not a bad day for a walk though. And presents...
j0ntyg on 25 Dec 2013
In reply to AndrewHuddart:

> Some gully lines were still white with soggy and quite deep snow (rocks all very black) so it might matter down the line.


That's about right. I was at 3000' 6am today.




Mountain Llama on 25 Dec 2013
In reply to sheeny: glad 2 c ur wit is still goin strong!



MFB - on 25 Dec 2013
In reply to j0ntyg:


Tuesday 'Stay away from the lakes for a couple of days, the weather here is atrocious.'

Today > That's about right. I was at 3000' 6am today.

I'm confused

john
MFB - on 25 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Today was lovely day for getting out in the hills

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=694590937229345&set=a.211203592234751.54016.211202675568...

sun was on raven crag langdale for most of the day

tomorrow looks like it could be ok
MFB - on 26 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Langdale - some high cloud still buzzing round the peaks but great walking weather and the crags are dry
AndrewHuddart - on 26 Dec 2013
In reply to MFB:

Despite a frost in the Eden valley, the hills are still wet and cloud covered. Keswick and Borrowdale were almost entirely free of frost. Drizzle this morning on the Central hills and still 4 Deg C in the valleys - still nothing doing in the Lakes.
Si Withington - on 26 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Snow above about 500m today though. Wintery up in the clag.
MFB - on 27 Dec 2013
In reply to AndrewHuddart:

breezy
j0ntyg on 27 Dec 2013
In reply to MFB:

> Tuesday 'Stay away from the lakes for a couple of days, the weather here is atrocious.'

> Today > That's about right. I was at 3000' 6am today.

> I'm confused

> john

It was a silly joke, I was on Google Earth.
ads.ukclimbing.com
MFB - on 27 Dec 2013
In reply to j0ntyg:

Now I get it

Avinash1 - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to MFB:

Anything today?
3leggeddog on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to aujayeb:

currently staring down ennerdale in the queue for the tip. Cloud level at top of pillar rock, all is looking very green below that.
biscuit - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to 3leggeddog:

I miss that tip. Most scenic tip in the country I reckon ;-)
AndrewHuddart - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to aujayeb:
Freezing level has been around 900m today. On Helvellyn (Red Tarn face) there's loose snow from Tarn level and verglass on everything from 900m or so. Very fine but sharp graupel was falling being driven hard by the wind reducing visibility and making walking into the wind decidedly painful.

The buttresses however are black and the turf remains soggy where covered by snow. Below 900m it's soggy full stop No ice is present at all.

Not bad walking conditions if you've got spikes and an axe.

For clarity's sake:
-Turn not frozen
-No ice
-Butresses are black

Red Tarn face is not currently in condition for winter climbing. Please don't go and rip up the turf and plants in the gullies as I saw people doing today.

Photo from today will be here once/if approved:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=232537
Post edited at 15:17
Avinash1 - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to AndrewHuddart:

Thanks for that

Am going to go for a hike near St Johns in the Vale tomorrow if anyone is about
DR - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to AndrewHuddart:

I kind of hope you are joking about people climbing today given the conditions but sadly I bet you're not. I'd have been tempted to follow them back to their car, take the number plate and report them to Natural England for reckless damage to a SSSI.

To anyone else out there thinking of climbing over the next few days - please don't as there really is nowt in condition. To those guys today - unless you were on Viking Buttress - for feck's sake, what were you thinking???

Cheers
Davie
xplorer on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to DR:

"I kind of hope you are joking about people climbing today given the conditions but sadly I bet you're not. I'd have been tempted to follow them back to their car, take the number plate and report them to Natural England for reckless damage to a SSSI."

Do you not think the best think to do, would be to either get over it, or go and have a quick friendly chat with them.

Not everyone knows about what conditions are ok to climb in, and not everyone comes on UKC. Its easy enough to give them advice and tell them to have a glance at the BMC website.
MFB - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to aujayeb:

> Anything today?

dry and warmish - good walking/scrambling ok climbing conditions

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=696082150413557&set=a.211203592234751.54016.211202675568...

also inspiration from stephen reid

http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=203867
MFB - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to AndrewHuddart:

surprised how much snow is visible in your thumbnail - very little in langdale
Wesley Orvis - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

We were summer scrambling on Central Buttress Browncove Crags today with fresh graupel falling for most of the time we were up there, summit plateau frozen solid (crampons needed) and for the last pitch of the route we had to get an axe out (not crampons) due to verglass over every rock and some old hard snow wouldn't have been possible without it, just for the pitch were you traverse to the shterred arete over looking the gully a another week of this and things could come good.
Wesley Orvis - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

The turf on the top pitch was frozen.
PontiusPirate on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

To those that aren't already familiar with it, please use this resource too: http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/
This will give a good idea of the real (as opposed to merely forecast) freezing level as well as a view of the ice/snow cover on the rocks.

The ongoing is for more freeze-thaw with the thaws relatively brief (meaning a low likelihood of completely striping the mountains) for the next week or so, with a possibility (strong from some commentators) of a turn to significantly colder in the second week of January.
Yep, I'd say relatively hopeful :-)

PP.
Wesley Orvis - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to PontiusPirate:

Met the weatherline guy today up on the summit top guy, he had his crampons on, but lots of ice skaters totally unprepared for the full on winter conditions encounetered coming up the edges, lots of trainers and jeans on the plateau with strong winds and stinging hail.

I was asked for easy decents from at least 3 different groups who had epics coming up without spikes and wanted easy decents. One group even followed us down to Swirls Carpark when their car was in Glenridding to get a taxi round?????
richlan - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
I was up there in trainers i.e. fell shoes on christmas day, was i unprepared, no i wasn't, dont judge others by your own experience and skills.
crabtreer on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Is central gully still black and soggy then?
Wesley Orvis - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to crabtreer:

yep only top 20m with snow in, left of the main buttresss looked a lot better (parallel gully area)just put a couple of pics on here have a look
Wesley Orvis - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to richlan:

erm when people are sliding all over the place and can't keep their footing and descending down the path on their butts and having to ask other people directions they are unprepared!

We bumped into my mate who was running over in his fell shoes today and wasn't unprepared but others were. Christmas day was a little different to today too
Wesley Orvis - on 28 Dec 2013
In reply to richlan:
> (In reply to Wesley Orvis)
> I was up there in trainers i.e. fell shoes on christmas day, was i unprepared

In would rather have an easy walk over to the summit with my microspikes on than hopping, jumping and sliding like a complete idiot as most without any spikes on were, there was a lot ice on the plateau.

AndrewHuddart - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Just back from a quick trip back up Helvellyn. Half-reasonable conditions are beginning to build.

Photos are awaiting approval but:
-hoar has begun to form on the top 75m or so of the face overnight
-Exposed turf is pretty much frozen above 850m
-yesterday's snow hasn't consolidated at all and forms a loose layer approx 20-40cm deep in parts of the gully bed
-Tiny amounts of ice are beginning to form around V Corner and other usual spots
-There's some good neve in Gully #2 but the gully is yet to fully fill and could do with some freeze/thaw to sort out the snow pack.

Plenty of folk out today, many making good decisions about not going up the edges without crampons.


AdCo82 on 29 Dec 2013
Has anyone got an update on the Scafell / Bowfell / Great End areas??

a lakeland climber on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to xplorer:

Given that the guidebook explicitly mentions not to climb in the coves to the east of the Helvellyn ridge in such conditions I'd say DR would be doing us all a favour. Such idiots might get us all banned from many winter crags.

ALC
xplorer on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber:

Guidebook????? What's one of them?
In reply to AndrewHuddart:

Gullies 1 and 2 above Red Tarn ,both complete with good neve.
Kelcat - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Had a wander over Crinkle Crags & Bowfell today; there is nothing. The ground is very water logged & spongy, and there doesn't seem to be anything substantial that would freeze if conditions did change suddenly.
AdCo82 on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Kelcat:

Could you see what the Scafell group was like?
DR - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Where's Dave Cumberland when you need a bit of back up :-)

I had a look up Helvellyn too today. Given that preceding weather has been mild and pish the turf wasn't frozen as what snow cover there is has insulated it from freezing. No ice to speak of and to my eyes at least, the gullies were thin to say the least and the exit ramps to the plateau not much better.

I saw two people climbing today, one in No 1 Gully and one in No 2 Gully. Without actually climbing the routes myself, I just can't believe they were in nick from what I saw on the ground. We saw one guy come down to Glenridding car park with a climbing pack - he looked embarrassed and hid his pack away as quick as he could.

I would say it is a pre-requisite of winter climbing that you learn about conditions, your locations for climbing and the impact you could have. It's not that difficult or time consuming. Me, I use Weatherline, the Great Dun Fell weather station data and note wind directions and speeds, rainfall, valley and summit temps on a daily basis to work out Lakes conditions and then look at blogs like Paddy Cave's, photos on here and talk to mates. The arctic-alpine plant refuges on Helvellyn and Fairfield are just about the last in England. The LDNPA and Natural England spend time and money trying to conserve and protect them - as climbers we need to maybe be a wee bit more responsible with our actions sometimes.

Aye,
Davie
Wesley Orvis - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Went round the edges today and onto the summit again, lots of people in the gullies and on the snow bowl making bad decisions as conditions are not quite there yet imo, the tops half of the routes are in but it's the damage done in the bottom half were the turf is soggy still and things haven't firmed up yet, but things are definitely starting to look good out there.
Wesley Orvis - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to An Triubhas:

> Could you see what the Scafell group was like?

Not much anywhere else but on Helvellyn I am afraid.
In reply to DR:

Both gullies 1 and 2 were complete from the old avalanche debris below the base to the summit. OK there was some unconsolidated snow in the gullies but I would say in that all the years I have been climbing on here , the conditions were very good. There was a good build up of snow in the gullies and the axe placements were near perfect.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Gav Parker - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Bob Bennett aka Last Thursday:

lol........
Dave Cumberland - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to DR:
> Where's Dave Cumberland when you need a bit of back up :-)
> Aye,
> Davie
Aye Davie,
Couldn't agree more about these w__kers trying to climb in non-winter conditions except Bob has posted some less sceptical news and he knows a thing or two .. .. ..

I think he is winding us all up. As Oscar Wilde said (or was it G B Shaw?).
“I hope you have not been leading a double life, pretending to be wicked and being good all the time. That would be hypocrisy.”
DC
Wesley Orvis - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Just heard there has just been a rescue by a Seaking and Air Ambulance on Helvellyn earlier this evening, I didn't see it myself.
Wesley Orvis - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Apparently a man and his wife slipped 130m into Browncove at 3pm today from Swirral Edge, hope all is well and no one seriously hurt.
AndrewHuddart - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to AndrewHuddart:

Today's view of red tarn:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=232580

With all respect to contrary views, so long as you didn't put spikes on until the neve appeared at the commencement of the gully proper, then it wasn't bad conditions- quite good for December and certainly no risk to the SSSI if you kept to the neve.
Wesley Orvis - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to AndrewHuddart:

I didn't venture into the gullies so i can't comment on how high the turf was frozen from on the Red Tarn Face itself but on the edges the turf was only frozen from the headwall onwards, there was some old neve high up on Browncove yesterday though.

Looked to a be a bit thin for an ascent in the gullies imo though.
Wesley Orvis - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Anybody else have a kick off with a miserable scottish guy over parking in the ski club car park? After lots of verbal threats by him he ran off to call the police over me for not moving my car back down to Glenridding.

A friend who is close to finalising the deal on the youth hostel says he has no rights to remove anyone, i also had a do with him last winter over the same thing, whats the crack on the parking up there?
Post edited at 21:00
AdCo82 on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

I park there and have never had any issues. From what I can understand, there is nothing the police or local authority could do anyway even if he did report it!!!
Wesley Orvis - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Hi, I was the guy parked next to your van. Parking up here is all to do with the skiers and access to the tow. One presumes that if skiers are allowed then so are climbers. The latest winter guide states that access is allowed from october to march
ERB - on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

The coniston range has no snow at all the cloud didn't clear until after 1pm and the turf is wet and soggy. The only snow I could see was on Helvellyn.
paraffin on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> Anybody else have a kick off with a miserable scottish guy over parking in the ski club car park?
I think you may be talking about Rab Anderson the Warden of the private hostel below the Ski Club Car Park.
I was up regular last winter and I found Rab reasonable to talk to.
The situation may have deteriorated, as at first he did not mind people parking there when no courses were on. But random walkers / climbers were ignoring the signs and coming thro the gate and parking in front of the private hostel and above in the ski club car park.
The ski club car park as I understand has been a long term agreement for Lake District Ski Club members use only.
Hope that clears that up for you.
Davie (not so miserable Scottish guy)


paraffin on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to Bob Bennett aka Last Thursday:

Sorry Bob, top car park for ski club members only
Davie
AdCo82 on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to paraffin:

As in THE Rab Anderson?? ;-)
paraffin on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to An Triubhas:

Not the one who thinks he is famous Scottish winter climber - but another.

I have been in touch with some people to see if we can clear up the parking situation at Greenside mines. Access up to the mines has been under a bit of pressure recently. I would ask people using the Greenside mines to be considerate in driving up and where they park.
mockerkin on 29 Dec 2013
In reply to DR:

There are contradictory versions of the Lakes conditions on this thread.
Good to see your weather forecast advice.
But the main problem is too many people who can't afford/don't have time to go to Scotland, descending on the Lakes when the conditions are not good enough and then climbing anything with a bit of snow on it and causing damage. After all, if you've gone to the trouble to go there in the first place, it's hard to retreat without admitting that it was a mistake, so it's "Well we may as well do something now that we are here"
I've had a good look around this weekend and I honestly couldn't see any valid "winter climbing routes" I just hope that these people don't go home and say that they have been "winter climbing", but that is a bit too much to expect, isn't it.
In reply to paraffin:

Just for the record, we parked on the lower car park albeit on the upper left side.
In reply to mockerkin:

I really dont think that people who just go for " a look around" really know what conditions are like without going into the gullies themselves.
Sorry to drag this one out , but the conditions in the two gullies were good
Wesley Orvis - on 30 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

well imo Rab Anderson=Nob head and if he shouts out liar at me one more time this local is going to give him a free lesson in canyoning down the Greenside Ravine and then a boot up the arse back to Scotland. I have now held back twice from his verbal rampage and i have decided next time i will not be so nice.

Hi Bob nice to meet you and thanks for your support on the subject during this debate, like you say if you went in the gullies and they were fine then you know what conditions you came across and who are we to question that?, 10 degrees and raining today in Kendal so won't be much left now anyways.
stuart58 - on 30 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Too all people theres nothing in condition in the lakes. Also why can't people park in glen ridding. I got a ticket a few years ago for parking at green side. U only have an other 35 mins walk and it saves on the road. If everyone was to park at green side the place would end up a mess
Please respect the lakes.
xplorer on 30 Dec 2013
In reply to stuart58:

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
Wesley Orvis - on 30 Dec 2013
In reply to stuart58:

Fair point and if i was maybe approached in this way and had it explained nicely maybe i would have seen reason but i was approached in an agressive manor.
TAbbey - on 30 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

I have had some dealings with this chap. I can confirm his manner is totally over top and very aggressive. I challenged him on his behaviour and asked him to show me some ID to confirm he was who he said he was and that he was permitted to speak on behalf of the national park (as he kept claiming he could). Sadly he refused and continued to bark at me... I left him to it. I agree that a more polite and informative approach would have had a much better outcome.
paraffin on 30 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis etc.
Regarding Parking at Greenside Mines

The surrounding land and parking beyond the gate is managed & leased by Lake District National Park. Clearly some feathers have been ruffled. I understand the LDNP officers are going to help clarify the situation with the leaseholders.

I would ask everyone to "keep the heid" so that the situation can be clarified and resolved.

many thanks

Wesley Orvis - on 30 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Back to conditions, temps a little cooler than expected up high, just did an after dark ascent of Red Screes and fresh snow falling down to about 600m, could see Helvellyn from the summit when the showers cleared and had a good dusting to a lower level than yesterday but obviously couldn't tell how much of the old stuff had survived todays thaw and how much was new, it put about 2cm down on Red Screes in the 2 hours we were up there.

It was 1 degree when we got to the pass at 4 o'clock and when we left at 6:30 it was 2.5 degrees, temps fluctuating very quickly from 1 to 3.5 and back again in the same hour.
wercat on 30 Dec 2013
In reply to stuart58:

Indead, a gentilhomme wouldn't claim an accent unless sortie from Glenridding itself
In reply to wercat:

Sums up the attitude perfectly-Victorian!
Si Withington - on 30 Dec 2013
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Just for clarity. Exactly which parking area are you guys having issues with? The area under the trees on the left just after the youth hostel entrance, or further up through the next gate?
mockerkin on 31 Dec 2013
In reply to Bob Bennett aka Last Thursday:

> I really dont think that people who just go for " a look around" really know what conditions are like without going into the gullies themselves.

That is a fair point, but doesn't it show that only reasonable climbers who understand the conditions are likely to find these gullies and for each of them there are twenty climbers desperate to find something to climb in the Lakes in "winter conditions"? Then they cause damage.


ITS on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

There have been many very good points that have been made during this forum debate, many opinions given, many insults traded, and many arrogant comments.

What it shows is that forums don't solve anything. People who think conditions are in will climb no matter what others say, and people who tell them so will continue to look down from their high horses. Everyone thinks that they know best and that their view is the only valid one. This happens every year, and the forums during the winter months are laughably predictable. So what's the point? I'm sure it's all very well intended, but it degenerates into the same argument as last year and the year before etc., etc.

By the way, Happy New Year.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Green-Winged Orchid - on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to ITS:

your point is?

If conditions arent in they arent in..

Parking at Greenside is for fat knackers, Also its an easier walk up from Thirlmere.
ITS on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to Green-Winged Orchid:

My point isn't about conditions. It's about the pointless Lakes Winter Conditions bollocks that goes on in this forum. And yes, if conditions aren't in they aren't in, but this forum won't stop people from climbing when conditions aren't in.

By the way, I agree that parking at Greenside is for lazy b@st@rds. No excuses; park at Glenridding and walk in.
pass and peak - on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

OK, Back to conditions!!!
Was up Helvellyn yesterday (walking) during the morning snow/rain.
The new snow that came on strong SW winds arrived and was lying above about 700m. on top this was adding to what was left of the old cornices on the red tarn corrie rim and filling in the gullys some what. However the temp was only minus 1, the old snow though consolidated, had only frozen on the surface and was soft underneath, none of the turf or shale was frozen. New snow though blowing around was still softish, If there was some sustained frosts it should glue up quite nicely, however forecast suggest otherwise. Left parallel gully on brown cove was reasonably full from about half way up, right showed turf poking through, again these would need a sustained day or so below freezing to come properly in condition. So guys to summarize for Helvellyn as of 12:30 yesterday it NOT in, but its close. If your local and its been cold it might be worth a look, just watch out for those cornices, otherwise its not worth the drive over. Some photos here might give you a better idea http://markswalks.wordpress.com/2014/01/01/lakes-conditions-helvellyn-3112/
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Was up on Helvellyn again about 4 o'clock yesterday and the summit has had a thaw and the scree and turf from the plateau was soft underneath about an inch of snow, the ice had gone, crampons not needed for the first time this week on the plateau, as we started to descend more fresh snow was falling more and more must have fallen through the night as temps were pretty low, snow was down to about 700m on western slopes. Although things were much less frozen than previous days it felt a lot more whiter and more wintery up there yesterday than the previous few days.
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

As far as the ski club car park goes I will carry on using when I need a quick ascent regardless of the mouthy jock and peoples comments above, over the last week I have gone up from Swirls, Dunmail Raise, Patterdale and the ski club car park and the ski club is by far the fastest way up there.
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to ITS:

> My point isn't about conditions. It's about the pointless Lakes Winter Conditions bollocks that goes on in this forum. And yes, if conditions aren't in they aren't in, but this forum won't stop people from climbing when conditions aren't in.

> By the way, I agree that parking at Greenside is for lazy b@st@rds. No excuses; park at Glenridding and walk in.

Every thing you have written above is completely wrong, the majority of people will listen to conditions reports and not climb, its the few people who think they know better who will carry on climbing regardless, same as in anything really you always get a few bad eggs, so even if it stops the majority climbing then some good has been done from conditions reports and most wont even bother driving up if things aren't sounding too good.

As for your bottom comment get a grip whenever I do a night time ascent I will use the ski club car park and I am no lazy bastard.
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

There has been no winter climbing conditions in the Lakes this season so far but as I said above some people just like snow and will come for a walk just to see everything nice and white. So these reports still have a purpose.

Many more decided to do the edges over the weekend once they got to the tarn and noticed the turf was still soggy, only a very few headed over to the Red Tarn face to even check conditions out.
xplorer on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Keep doing these condition reports mate! I don't think people like the fact that you seem to get out quite a lot in the lakes. I can't believe the negative comments about your report's, UKC is full of funny old dudes who don't climb anymore!

I can set up an actual Lake District conditions website if you want and you, and others can update it when you have been out. I'll be able to set it up to pool weather data and weatherline reports.

Only the people who appreciate the reports will use it, and the negative idiots should stay away!

Let me know what you think dude!
All the Gear, No Idea on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> Every thing you have written above is completely wrong, the majority of people will listen to conditions reports and not climb, its the few people who think they know better who will carry on climbing regardless, same as in anything really you always get a few bad eggs, so even if it stops the majority climbing then some good has been done from conditions reports and most wont even bother driving up if things aren't sounding too good.

> As for your bottom comment get a grip whenever I do a night time ascent I will use the ski club car park and I am no lazy bastard.

I pay a fair bit of attention to the winter conditions, Lakes , Wales, Scotland, I appreciate the advice from the people who take the time to look, assess, and report, AND I do not want to drive 3hours minimum to find unclimbable crap and turn around and drive home, so I listen to the advice, as do MANY other sensible people,
Keep up the good work folks,
if you havn't got anything constructive to say, please please please,,,just say nothing
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Well said Wesley,totally agree. I for one dont wish to spend 2 hours of my day walking up and down a road when I can park at the start of the footpaths
In reply to xplorer:

Good idea, the fell top assesor on weatherline does a good job but more specific info on climbing conditions would be useful.I go out frequently during the week and would be keen to contribute.
Last Sunday, I had every intention of going for a walk and leaving gear in car until I met someone I knew who had climbed the gullies the day before.
xplorer on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to Bob Bennett aka Last Thursday:

Brilliant, I'm sure a few others would be willing to help as well. I'll start setting things up over the next couple of weeks. I may quickly throw together a site just so its up and running, then improve it over the summer.

If anyone can help please let me know, I will purchase a website domain in next couple of days.
All the Gear, No Idea on 01 Jan 2014
In reply to xplorer:

Like this attitude.
stratandrew on 02 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Walked up Swirral today (Thur 2nd)- temps well above freezing, no verglas on rocks. snow on exit ramp mush. easy enough w/out crampons today but if temps drop again they may be needed. Plateau partially frozen due to savage windchill but most snow has been stripped by the rain and thaw. Some snow still in the gullies on the red tarn face but buttresses now very bare. Brown Cove crags almost stripped - only the top half of the two paralell gullies have snow. The whole area needs another good snow dump and a proper freeze I reckon.
Wesley Orvis - on 03 Jan 2014
In reply to xplorer:

Thanks again Explorer appreciated, fantastic idea would be a great asset and enjoyable to do at the same time, don't know whats wrong with some people on here? Happy New Year all.
Wesley Orvis - on 03 Jan 2014
In reply to Si Withington:
> (In reply to Wesley Orvis)
>
> Just for clarity. Exactly which parking area are you guys having issues with? The area under the trees on the left just after the youth hostel entrance, or further up through the next gate?

Hi Si yes the car park before the gate not after.

Wesley Orvis - on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Nice and wintery on Bow Fell today didn't see a single person for the whole trip, climbers traverse nice and white with good coverage, rime ice starting to build high up on Bow Fell Buttress and on the summit blocks, went down the river of stones, but today it was a river of snow, ice was even starting to form in places, Saturday and Sunday have been fairly wintery high up and the turf were not insulated by the snow was semi frozen too.

Shame it's about to warm up for a while as another week of this could have been good.


LakesWinter on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Nice report Wes, cheers
Wesley Orvis - on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to LakesWinter:

Cheers, pic of buttress above Climbers Traverse looking fairly white today

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201357708521465&set=a.10201357688360961.1073741891.113...
Dave Cumberland - on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> Shame it's about to warm up for a while as another week of this could have been good.

Wesley, one day you will understand true Winter conditions.

There is NO Winter climbing in the Lakes.

Yet.

DC

Wesley Orvis - on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

I know Dave just walking must we keep on with this? at what point did I say there was?
Wesley Orvis - on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I am sure another week of the temps we were getting on Saturday and Sunday and things would be good, I stopped in Langdale in the van all weekend and the thermometer never went over 3.5 degrees. I have seen cold winters before and I know this isn't one, so far, but how many times do I have to say this I agree there has been no winter climbing conditions in the Lakes this season.
xplorer on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

what a wally!
AdCo82 on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I'm sorry but I have to say, Dave....What's your problem?

Wes never said it was in winter nick, just that he went for a stroll and that if the cold spell continued then who knows.

I went up Red Screes today and the turf even though NOT IN WINTER NICK was starting to freeze a little!!!
MFB - on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Your significantly adding to fell top info - good effort, keep it up
john
ITS on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> Every thing you have written above is completely wrong, the majority of people will listen to conditions reports and not climb, its the few people who think they know better who will carry on climbing regardless, same as in anything really you always get a few bad eggs, so even if it stops the majority climbing then some good has been done from conditions reports and most wont even bother driving up if things aren't sounding too good.

> As for your bottom comment get a grip whenever I do a night time ascent I will use the ski club car park and I am no lazy bastard.

Wesley,

I've just read your reply and have to admit that I didn't quite word what I meant very well. I have no issue with your winter conditions report, and agree that you are not saying conditions are in.

I should have put a bit more thought into my replies. I think that the overall winter conditions forum stuff just results in a load of bad natured comments (mine included), and it gets a bit predictable year after year, but that's not your fault. Your intentions are obviously to keep people informed, and every credit to you for that. I still stand by my comment that it won't stop people climbing stuff that isn't in. By the way, I am on the Lakeland fells every week.

Please accept my apologies and keep up the good work.

shaun stephens - on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

At what point will you realise that you sound like a spoilt small child who cant stay quiet when they should do.
Keep up the reports Wesley.
shaun stephens - on 05 Jan 2014
In reply to ITS:

Like, a man with scrupples.
Chris Huntington - on 07 Jan 2014
Hi Folks,

Any update on this? was hoping to get across on Saturday- totally agree no gullys will be in and would be mental to climb in them and all that, but was thinking of stepped ridge or something- does anyone know if theres any ice or is everything thawing?

Please don't anyone kick off at me- if the conditions are rubbish I obviously won't be climbing, stepped ridge is also a summer scramble.
mockerkin on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Chris Huntington:

http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/

This has been advised several times on this site.
Chris Huntington - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to mockerkin:

Yes mate, I know about weatherline, I was hoping for some info on someone who had been this week.
Dave Cumberland - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Chris Huntington:

There has been semi-continuous heavy rain and gales for several days, parts of Keswick were flooded yesterday, roads are awash, it is currently 6 degrees here at 300 metres.
DC
alexcollins123 - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Was there at the weekend. Got a bit of a dump of snow on Friday/Saturday, so it was probably an average of 10cm deep. Helvellyn summit was wind scoured and little snow. Snow down to 500m ish... that was the weekend though, probably all change.
BnB - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to alexcollins123:

God, this is depressing
Wesley Orvis - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Just about all gone and what's left is thawing fast, we need a fresh dump of snow and much colder temps and it's starting to look like they are coming, soon to a place near you, not by this weekend though. Summer scrambling is always on as long as you don't mind the wet, I have done lots of summer scrambling this winter.
Chris Huntington - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Thanks Guys and Thanks Wesley.

Summer scrambling it is then! Freezing level down at 700m towards end of week so perhaps near then end of the route there might be a bit.
peas65 - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Drove through the lakes today and yesterday, tiny patches of snow on brown cove and not much else where, and we are talking about just at the top of the corrie.

There has been a LOT of rain
Wesley Orvis - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Probs will be some fresh snow down by then too as it's changing everyday, we did Central Buttress(Stepped Ridge)sometime in December and had to get an axe out for the top pitch so will be worth carrrying just incase, i have a really light axe and a running pair of crampons which literally together weigh hardly anything, perfect for this kind of thing.
Wesley Orvis - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to ITS:

Apology accepted and thanks for going to the trouble to bother. Hopefully see you out there sometime.
paraffin on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> I have done lots of summer scrambling this winter.

Outrageous! What gives you the right to claim a summer ascent in winter!

I have a good mind to kick you all the way back to where you came from!
BnB - on 10 Jan 2014
Forecast finally looks as though conditions could start to build. I'm in the Lakes Sunday for as wintry a time as can be found. Anyone who visits Brown Cove Crags/Red Tarn Cove in the next day or so please can you post here on the state of the turf/snow/rime (I hesitate to write ice as I doubt there'll be any of that). Was hoping something mixed might be in a climbable state by Sunday. Freezing level is due to drop to valley in a couple of cycles Fri/Sat/Sun.
Chris Huntington - on 10 Jan 2014
In reply to BnB:

I'm going Brown Cove tomorrow mate and will let you know- we're just scrambling, though nothing will be in.

I think it will be another week of freeze thaw before any turf will be frozen.
BnB - on 10 Jan 2014
In reply to Chris Huntington:

Hi Chris, I fear you may be correct but I live in hope. Was thinking about Stepped Ridge, Left/Central Buttress or Right Buttress Crack, the former may well be an objective for you as it's the best summer scramble on the crag. Have a great day out and I'd be grateful for any observations. Thanks.
In reply to BnB:

I'm equally as keen, but if you look on the Weatherline photo from yesterday you'll see that the snow has melted around the areas of turf...

However, if it all turns to soggy mush today (and some survives) a couple of decent frosts could...

NMM
Petarghh - on 10 Jan 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

Has been around 7 degrees in Ambleside and rained for much of the day, some quite heavy spells, may have just been cold enough to snow on the top of Helvellyn, though it felt warmer than yesterday.

Went up brown cove last weekend, the ground is more saturated than I've ever seen it, and the gullys were all incomplete, would have needed a lot of snow to re fill, helvellyn looked better but we only looked down the gullys from the summit so they could have been crap towards the bottom,

Considered going to brown cove tomorrow but I personally don't think it will be worth it. Going to run up Fairfield in the morning instead. It just doesn't feel wintery in the lakes yet !

Pete
Wesley Orvis - on 10 Jan 2014
In reply to Petarghh:
Worth a walk round the edges or sharp edge but can't see climbing been in this weekend either.
Post edited at 22:27
A Mountain Journey - on 11 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Been out in Langdale this afternoon, a few photos of the fells here: http://mark-mountainjourneys.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/saturday-11th-january-1st-day-out-in.html

The snow covering is cosmetic in the Langdale Pikes area, with virtually none below 600m - a good day for scrambling or just a good mountain walk
In reply to A Mountain Journey:

Thanks for the photos. Did Bowfell just have a dusting too? Let's hope for some frosts next week, hopefully this dusting isn't too insulating...

NMM
MFB - on 11 Jan 2014
Exile - on 11 Jan 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

Just a dusting fella
peas65 - on 11 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Saw some folk heading up to brown cove today with ropes and helmets...

Rather optimistic i thought but maybe someone can correct me. Sure there is some snow but was anything frozen?

Is anyone going to fess up to climbing today?
paraffin on 11 Jan 2014
In reply to peas65:

Not climbing but skiing

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=703603916328047&set=a.211203592234751.54016.211202675568...

Amazing how quickly things froze up this morning. Should be some tasty turf to climb

In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Walk around Fairfield area today, most of ` Helvellyn cloud covered but general snow cover is thin. Icy with hard frozen old snow patches on summit of Fairfield.Couple of nights frost should be good for "turfy" routes.
In reply toWesley Orvis:

Thanks to those for posting about the ground conditions and links to photos. Looks like it's getting ridiculously 'nearly but not quite'. Looks like a heavy enough dusting to insulate the turf (certainly up high) but not enough to survive a thaw :-(

I can't remember a season that has teased so much and not delivered anything climbable S of the border (only been winter climbing 10 years though).

NMM

neilwiltshire on 11 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Was out in Borrowdale today. Inspected Great End. No conditions to speak of. Just enough snow to make a footprint but no more. Looked to be a decent snow patch high up in central gully but in general all the gullies were disgustingly wet.

Same to be said of Great Gable in terms of snow on the summit. Gable crag looked very black.

Looks like there's a long way to go before anything could be climbed here. Great days walking though.
Jim Haydock - on 12 Jan 2014
In reply to peas65:

Very optimistic if you ask me :(

We went for a bimble onto Helvellyn - nothing to get excited about though., Just a thin snow layer with the odd bit of hard snow. Turf NOT frozen though.

Crap really but.... here's hoping.

Forecast crap again for the next few days though :(

JH.
Dave Cumberland - on 12 Jan 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

> I can't remember a season that has teased so much and not delivered anything climbable S of the border (only been winter climbing 10 years though).

It's called "rock-climbing" weather.
DC

AdCo82 on 12 Jan 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Plenty of time yet.....February is the month to be out, and look at March and April last year!
LakesWinter on 12 Jan 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Not when it's raining, isn't that called drinking beer weather?
A Mountain Journey - on 12 Jan 2014
In reply to LakesWinter:

Had an early morning walk around the Fairfield horseshoe today, a couple of photos here: http://mark-mountainjourneys.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/a-wintery-walk-over-fairfield-12th.html

Still only a very light covering of snow, fair bit of ice on the paths. Brilliant winter walking conditions
blackcat - on 12 Jan 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

Dare i say it ,could be looking at one of those mild winters as of past years,and just bought a nice pair of gloves too,lol.
Chris Huntington - on 12 Jan 2014
In reply to BnB:

Did central buttress yesterday. That was probably us you saw Wesley.

Pretty tricky as although there was some snow it was mostly wet and very slippery, turf was soft almost everywhere except the summit, so the crampons and axes didn't come out til the summit, which was frozen in places. Temp dropped all day and was 1 degree back at car at 4 pm so today may have been a better day. Gonna review in a fortnight the precipitation is there but we need a proper freeze thaw cycle and some lower temperatures.
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

> It's called "rock-climbing" weather.

> DC

Not in my book. It's called surfing weather! Scarborough was brilliant yesterday ;-)

NMM
In reply to neilwiltshire:

Cheers for the report. Looks like the E Lakes has been colder than the west lakes again.

NMM
Wainers44 - on 12 Jan 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
> (In reply to Dave Cumberland)
>
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Not in my book. It's called surfing weather! Scarborough was brilliant yesterday ;-)
>
> NMM

...and Teignmouth was a paddle-fest this morning!!
Mountain Llama on 14 Jan 2014
In reply to Wainers44:
Medium dump of snow in lakes last nite, down to 450m in helvelllyn range.

Good winter walking on the ridges and quite a few skiers out on raise.

Looks like it will warm up overnight with rain :-(

Cheers Davey
Post edited at 17:23
OliBangbala - on 14 Jan 2014
In reply to Mountain Llama:

went up to harrison stickle and Pavey ark today, plenty of snow but no frozen turf yet
MFB - on 14 Jan 2014
sbc_10 - on 14 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

What do people reckon to the amount of Red Tarn that is frozen as an indicator of the conditions?
In the past decade or so, the Tarn has covered up a few times with the onset of a prolonged spell of cold weather. The cliffs behind have usually been in good shape at this stage, maybe aided by the cooler micro-climate.

Maybe we need a 'Tarn-ice Ob' to give a bit more info to the reported conditions.
stuart58 - on 14 Jan 2014
In reply to sbc_10:
Why dont u just walk up and find out
Mountain Llama on 14 Jan 2014
In reply to sbc_10:

Obviously if it is frozen conditions should be good but the fact that it may not be doesnt always indicate otherwise.
Jim Haydock - on 15 Jan 2014
In reply to Chris Huntington:

"Did central buttress yesterday"

Which central buttress ??

JH.
Dave Cumberland - on 17 Jan 2014
In reply to Bob Bennett aka Last Thursday:

Wet, wet, wet!!
DC

WJV0912 on 17 Jan 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Bollocks. I'm heading up early tomorrow morning. Forecast snow on the summits but rain down low...
A Mountain Journey - on 17 Jan 2014
In reply to WJV0912:

Was on Helvellyn yesterday afternoon, scrambled up Brown cove crags where there's virtually no snow and same story on the summit of Helvellyn. Light rain on the summit, here's a couple of shots from the day: https://www.facebook.com/pages/mountain-journeyscouk/103231179748054

Summary: very very wet
WJV0912 on 17 Jan 2014

I'll just stay inside and chop my balls off instead
chris fox on 17 Jan 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

When the arrows come from under the weather ladies boobies it's warm and wet, when they point down to them it's white and cold !
Chris Huntington - on 17 Jan 2014
In reply to Jim Haydock:

Sorry-brown cove crags
AdCo82 on 18 Jan 2014
Are crampons and an ice axe advisable for walking on Bowfell and Crinkle Crags right now or is it all either gone or avoidable?

Not planning on any technical climbing don't worry, just after conditions underfoot on the summits.

Ad
WJV0912 on 18 Jan 2014
baron - on 18 Jan 2014
In reply to WJV0912:

Looking at that photo a pair of wellies might be advisable as well!:)

Pmc
Dave Cumberland - on 19 Jan 2014
In reply to baron:

> Looking at that photo a pair of wellies might be advisable as well!:)

> Pmc

Wellies de rigeur at moment. Forget discussions about winter climbing!!
MFB - on 19 Jan 2014
stuart58 - on 19 Jan 2014
In reply to MFB:

What conditions lol
mh554 on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

I am heading up tomorrow. I have checked the weather sites, but wondered if anybody has any first hand knowledge of conditions?
Si Withington - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to mh554:

Wet and warm. Some snow above about 800m, which is wet and thawing.
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley

Fresh snow down, laying down to about 300m, was snowing in my back garden in Kendal an hour ago. it's looking very white on most of the fells in the south and east.
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Just getting rid of the flu that has wiped me out for the last few weeks, just in time for some cold weather, no climbing will be in yet but looking great for walking out there and the forecast don't look to bad either for Feb.
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Looking out there is even a bit of snow on Potter Fell just north of Kendal, dare I say it, could this be the start of winter 13/14, certainly the most promising scenes so far this season anyways!
ads.ukclimbing.com
Radioactiveman - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Do you live in a different kendal to me?
Mountain Llama on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Radioactiveman:
he's obviously still not over the flu! But he may have a set of nepals that you could try.....
Post edited at 16:03
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

I do still feel a little light headed, but my van door was left open and within about 2 mins the van was white inside, I am not stupid, can you even see north of Kendal Radioactiveman? Potter Fell and the Kentmere pikes are white even Langdale looks white CHECK THE WEB CAM, TIT.
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Radioactiveman:

> Do you live in a different kendal to me?

we have this every year, you must look out south, drive up to Windermere Road roundabout before just spouting shit.
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Radioactiveman:

One of my daughters even phoned me to say it was snowing on Kirkbarrow, just to check my own sanity as I have been tripping with this flu, so I don't know what part of Kendal you live but I am getting pretty fed up with your sarcy comments every year!
Si Withington - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Aye, was snowing in mine too, for about 2 mins. No sign of it now though. Fingers crossed for a colder Feb.
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Cheers Si, yes didn't last long but was the first snow at ground level I have seen this season so got me pretty excited, (don't take much like)
Post edited at 16:17
Si Withington - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Yeah me too. Got overly excited... then it stopped. Oh well, off to Norway on Monday. Hopefully winter will be in full swing by the time I get back :)
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Si Withington:

enjoy Norway, fingers crossed for cold conditions when you get back mate!
Si Withington - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Ta mate
A Mountain Journey - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Mountain Llama:

Just back from Langdale. Snow level dropping by the hour all day, hills getting very white. Ground is totally saturated though, with almost everywhere resembling a bog! Bit of info and photo here:
http://mark-mountainjourneys.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/snow-returns-to-langdale-23rd-january.html
Mark
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to A Mountain Journey:

Cheers Mark, good company today eh!
Radioactiveman - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

The point I was trying to make is that what precipitation there was could hardly (imo) be classed as snow. Maybe different people have different interpretations of what constitutes snowing.

Mine would be that wet white stuff falling on a changeable warm wet( 8 degree) day for 2 minutes wouldnt constitute snowing.But as I say weather is open to interpretation.

At no point did I dispute that there was snow out-side of kendal.

My suggestion would be to form your replies in the format of a question and dont read so much into a reply. Maybe even count to 10 before posting a reply that some may consider abusive and aggressive.

Your felltop conditions are really useful in this thread but please leave the abuse out.
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Radioactiveman:

3.5 degree on my car and 0 degree at the pass, the coldest I have seen this season, I am pretty desperate with no winter climbing this season, but snow is snow, even had to come back from Scotland due to the flu after arriving there 10 hours earlier, Good cover in the fells though I do have a view of Kentmere from my window.

Fair do's but I thought you were calling me a liar.
Wesley Orvis - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

it came down quick enough to fill my van with the white stuff while I only walked around to the shed to unload.
Petarghh - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Dusting of snow on Wansfell looking up from Ambleside, Fairfield is plastered with snow down to about 400m or so.
mockerkin on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

I have just looked at the Lake District weather line where it says this "Strong westerly and north westerly winds have blown large amounts of windslab onto east through to south facing slopes " Surely if the wind is coming from the N to NW more snow would be on the N and NW facing slopes.
A Mountain Journey - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to mockerkin:

No, the wind will pick up the snow from the slopes facing into the wind and deposit it on the sheltered slopes facing away from the wind.
pec on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to mockerkin:

> I have just looked at the Lake District weather line where it says this "Strong westerly and north westerly winds have blown large amounts of windslab onto east through to south facing slopes " Surely if the wind is coming from the N to NW more snow would be on the N and NW facing slopes. >

You need to read up on avalanche awareness if you're heading out in winter. Formation of windslab on lee slopes is rule 1 on page 1 in the avalanche handbook.

Full moon addict - on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

went up kentmere pike this evening. nice to have snow but hardly plastered - more like a few cm. icing quickly though. will be nice when the mushy bog finally freezes and the feet don't get so wet and cold.
Solaris - on 23 Jan 2014
mysterion on 23 Jan 2014
In reply to mockerkin:

Think of the snow as being blown like a sand dune.
mockerkin on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to A Mountain Journey:

> No, the wind will pick up the snow from the slopes facing into the wind and deposit it on the sheltered slopes facing away from the wind.

Thanks. We have a 14 year old nephew who is just learning about the hills. He didn't believe the Lakes weather line and was sure that a NW wind put more snow on the NW faces despite advice from myself and others. So I said to him that we would put his question to UKC and see what the responses are.
Thanks also to pec, solaris, (I'll refer him to your course) and misterion.
Have I now turned UKC into an" unclesnet"?
mockerkin on 24 Jan 2014
In reply to mysterion:

> Think of the snow as being blown like a sand dune.

I thought of that, as I worked in deserts some time ago but decided not to
as it may have complicated things for him. It is a good comparison though.
saffy - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to mockerkin:

I see what you did there ;-)
Avinash1 - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to saffy:
What is it looking like now for climbing?
Post edited at 14:43
richlan - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to aujayeb:
Its not, massive thaw on at the moment.

Helvellyn ski webcam:

http://www.ldscsnowski.co.uk/
Post edited at 14:45
saffy - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to aujayeb:

Not much left on the top of the old man and swirl how this morning. Its a shame was starting to get a little hopeful when I was driving over Wyrnose on Thursday evening, even had a little snow in the Duddon on Friday.
Lee Sheard - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to saffy:

the gully lines are full on helvellyn. Just needs temps to drop as forcast and it would come in nick. Next few days look wild and snowy high up so by next teus we may get something to climb. Hopefully
jas wood - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to Lee Sheard:

Striding edge was devoid of snow last night (11pm ish), gullies looked to be still hanging in with wet snow so a freeze soon may bring fair conditions.
ads.ukclimbing.com
DSM - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to jas wood:

Just back from run over Coniston Old Man etc. As of 16:30/Sat/25/Jan there is but a smattering of hail on these tops. It was extremely windy/gusty though with some intense driving rain at times. Such fun!

DSM
martinph78 on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Anyone been up the Langdales today? I'm expecting Jacks Rake will be a waterfall rather than ice fall, but would appreciate some local info. Heading over regardless tomorrow, but might change my route to stay North if the Rakes ice'd up (don't care about the rain).

Cheers, Martin
MFB - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to Martin1978:

it was 9 degrees c in valley bottom today
there was very little snow left on the hills by lunchtime
since then vicious squalls with hailstones
meant to be lots of snow by tomorrow
from forecast expect rake to have some snow by tomorrow pm
(but its only a forecast)
martinph78 on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to MFB:

That's good enough for me, thanks. It's worth heading round to take a look at least, we don't mind a bit of snow. Cheers.
Jim Haydock - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to Martin1978:
I was up Pavey ark and there was absolutely nothing on Jacks rake.
Snow was on the tops only and would suggest it will still be bare on Sunday.
Don't waste your time if you're thinking of a winters ascent of the rake.
JH

Jim Haydock - on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Hi Wes.
Sorry your plan didn't come off in Scotland due to the flu :(
It'll still be there to bag next time pal.
Fingers crossed for some decent conditions eh ?
JH
martinph78 on 25 Jan 2014
In reply to Jim Haydock:

Thanks for the info

> Don't waste your time if you're thinking of a winters ascent of the rake.

Quite the opposite actually, my mate wouldn't go up it in winter conditions (so it would have been a wasted detour if it was in winter nick).

Cheers, Martin
MFB - on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to Jim Haydock:
jacks rake was covered in snow half an hour ago
Post edited at 14:05
MFB - on 26 Jan 2014
Si Withington - on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
MR training up to about 660m today around Harter Fell/Kentmere Pike/Longsleddale. Very wet and slippy underfoot. Things pretty white but snow very wet. Definitely wintery but not the sort of weather you want to be out in. Goggles weather.
Post edited at 16:39
BarmyAlex118 - on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Do you think rydal head would be worth it tomrrow ?
Seen a ton of snow up on fair field and just judging whether or not to get up early to climb up the head of the valley onto fairfeild and then head back down to ambleside
AdCo82 on 26 Jan 2014
I'm looking at doing Fairfield tomorrow....has anyone been up it today?

richlan - on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to AdCo82:

What do you want to know ? There will be a bit of wet cold snow on it and it will be muddy lower down, is that enough ? ;-)
AdCo82 on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to richlan:

yep....not expecting to climb....just walk
Jim Haydock - on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to AdCo82:

> yep....not expecting to climb....just walk

Then why are you on a winter climbing forum ?
Just check weather line and.... job done ?
Jim Haydock - on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to MFB:

> jacks rake was covered in snow half an hour ago

Yeah - what a transformation in 24 hrs - that was sudden (and unexpected)

Lets hope the recent fresh snow stays and consolidates (and freezes) for some decent winter climbing at last eh :)

JH.
AdCo82 on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to Jim Haydock:

I am a climber but nothing is in condition. I have looked at the forecasts but just wondered for some local feedback from anyone who has been out today.

Don't know why that bothers you so much....clearly missing manners...!
martinph78 on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to Jim Haydock:
We climbed Jacks Rake today, it was like a waterfall down the middle with wet snow everywhere else. Hardly full of snow, just a dusting on ledges etc. It did look white from a distance (in places) but not when you got up close to it. Just wet snow and NOTHING frozen or even close to freezing.

The ground/turf is also soaked around there, high raise and such also very wet and boggy. Definitely NOT frozen anywhere, just very, very wet under a coating of very wet snow. Made for quite slippery conditions on the walk in/out as there's mostly wet grass and mud under the snow.

Had it all, rain, turning to snow, turning to horizontal hail and extremely strong winds at the top.

Awesome day for a scramble :)
Post edited at 20:41
MFB - on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to Jim Haydock:

I think this snow was pretty much as per forecast Jim

Anyway - the Helvellyn's are very white (4pm)and road through Chapel Stile had a dusting 1/2 an hr ago, the showers keep on going
There is a possibility of a cold spell towards the end of the week according to BBC
john
martinph78 on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

A few pics from Jacks Rake and High Raise today.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=DF178194116A45B2%211173

As you can see, there was less snow by 15:30 (in the last pic) than there was at lunch and what there was wet or slushy. Everything from Tarn Crag down had completely thawed on our return, where there was a dusting of wet snow on our way up.

Still a good to stretch the legs though :)
stuart58 - on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to Martin1978: hi did c route today on Dow had to did for gear. Rock a bit crumbly in crampons. Had white out conditions and then blue sky. Off to do bow fell buttress tomorrow.

richlan - on 26 Jan 2014
In reply to stuart58:

> hi did c route today on Dow had to did for gear. Rock a bit crumbly in crampons. Had white out conditions and then blue sky. Off to do bow fell buttress tomorrow.

Nice troll dude !!
nicmac - on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Ok so what are the thoughts for this coming weekend?
hoping to do some easy gullies (Great End??)
will it get cold enough? Will there be loads of snow fall between now and then? weather getting a bit colder but will it be cold enough?
any ideas? and suggestions? be kind now!
mockerkin on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to saffy:
> I see what you did there ;-)

(Re. NW winds putting snow on SE faces.) Well, if you think that I was fishing for advice for myself you would fairly see it that way.
But I come from here, I have climbed in winter here for decades. The reason I didn't allow the youngster to put the query onto UKC himself was because:-
1) He needed advice from the wider climbing community to convince him.
2) The last time I let these budding climbers access to my computer they looked up loads of porn which resulted in my pc being paralysed by hackers who demanded money to free my pc. The one that shows police badges etc. That cost me £56 to have cleared. Cleared by an expert that is, not £56 to the hackers.
Post edited at 15:00
MFB - on 27 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Langdale today
my mate has just been over Bowfell
snow from 500m
knee deep wet snow on climbers traverse
valley temp 5 deg c


In reply to nicmac:

Might be avalanche city depending on how the freezing level varies this week... I'd bet on a strong SW Fri night with FL about 700/800m which would be bad news for avalanche conditions on Great End!

Have a look through the guidebook and be more imaginative with crags facing the wind above 700m. Green gable could be good.

NMM
In reply to MFB:

Thanks for the report. Promising...

NMM
USBRIT - on 29 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:Quite warm today on Keswick hills and dry some snow on Hellvelyn and central fells

mook456 - on 29 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Looks like some possible freeze/thaw conditions over the weekend according to the wewtherline. Possibility of something coming into condition by next week anybody?
Avinash1 - on 29 Jan 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

Green gable or great gable?

Which are the wind facing slopes to try tackle this weekend? I can't seem to figure it out
BnB - on 29 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Tons of wet snow under a layer of powder on Bowfell today. We slogged up in the hope of finding something to climb on the Links. Rocks overgrown with soft rime and frost. Nearly but not quite there... but all it will take is a good hard freeze...
MFB - on 30 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

This am
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites?ref=hl#!/photo.php?fbid=713136018708170&set=a.21120359...
currently 3.6 deg C at 100m (valley bottom)
chap, just back from crinkles, says its frozen on top
In reply to MFB:

Thanks for the post! :-D


NMM
jas wood - on 30 Jan 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Anyones thoughts on chances of routes high and facing the right direction being there yet ? well aware of gullies being a swim.

Anyone know which aspects are curently scoured by the wind, if any.
Post edited at 18:12
Tom the tall on 30 Jan 2014
In reply to jas wood:

Had a mosey up Dale Head from Honister this morning to do some nav practice for someone. Icy patches on the path, pretty solid in places, from honister pass upwards (zero degrees in Keswick first thing). Snow from about half way up to summit, south side all breakable/soft. Did some crampon work on the east side descending from dale head summit to the tarn, some firm neve in a few places where step kicking was ineffective. Suspect there is some climbable stuff to be had up high, though the forecast for tomorrow is looking a bit grim.
Full moon addict - on 30 Jan 2014
In reply to jas wood:

just back from a run round dove crag, fairfield and st sunday. some nice bits of neve forming. not too much snow. north and east aspects seemed to have firmer snow. nice crest of snow on cofa pike. good slopes of very firm snow down from there to the hause with st sunday.
Lee Sheard - on 30 Jan 2014
In reply to jas wood:

climbed south east gully on great end today. reasonable neve ish most of the way up. Surface holding ok. The ice pitch isnt fully formed but plenty of snow going right then left back into gully. Top slope and exit ok and safe. Patches of windslab more out of the gully on the buttreses. Overall fair nick. freezing level around 700 all day. Lower am. Central right brach looked to be holding a lot of snow though so care eeded there. The top chockstone on s/e was buried and above the grade for that bit. Great day out in the hills.
Avinash1 - on 30 Jan 2014
In reply to Lee Sheard:

Awesome Lee. So good that you can get there during the week. Unfortunately some of us need to work
Tom W - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to jas wood:

Brown Cove and Helvellyn were both busy today. Conditions not quite there just yet, sugary snow and not all turf frozen, although turf with a thin cover of snow was solid. Saw a guy back off the easy gullies to the left of a Brown Cove crag. It's very close though! The Helvellyn edges were in good condition, and popular. See what this weekend snow / wind brings.
Wesley Orvis - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Did the first half of Stepped Ridge and then traversed into Central Gully Browncove Crags last night, not bad conditions at all, really good neve in the top half of the gully and a bit sugary lower down, a nice clear night, one other team out on Stepped Ridge, ice starting to form, even low down on the path, back home for 10:30.
Wesley Orvis - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Considering this snow only fell on Sunday, its in pretty good nick already, it was pretty cold last night though
Mountain Llama on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis: 2 usernames?

W Orvis on 31 Jan 2014 - ikarus.head.com
In reply to Mountain Llama:
> (In reply to Wesley Orvis) 2 usernames?

Had posting restrictions so set up a new account, now the restrictions have been lifted.

gfpowell - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

What were the cornices like in Brown Cove out of interest?
Wesley Orvis - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to gfpowell:
> (In reply to Wesley Orvis)
>
> What were the cornices like in Brown Cove out of interest?

Fairly small and solid at he top of Central.

OliBangbala - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis: Just started snowing fairly heavily in Langdale
nicmac - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Regular updates appreciated as will be up in lakes early tomorrow
saffy - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to nicmac:

Lots of snow falling in the Coniston fells, Down to about 200 meters. I presume there is a lot more in Langdale and the central fell, they had a lot more of a covering to start with!
WJV0912 on 31 Jan 2014
Given the lake district weatherline forecast. Am I going to die if I go walking this weekend?
paddy cave - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to WJV0912:

Lakes conditions update from today on here -

http://www.mountaincircles.com/helvellyn-winter-conditions-31-01-14-2/

Plenty of snow up there!
AdCo82 on 31 Jan 2014
Kirkstone Pass is closed due to a mix of deep snow, vehicles stuck, a crash and a stuck amabulance.

Red Screes was deep in snow today and was starting to properly freeze. A lot of ice forming in Kilnshaw Chimney!
stuart58 - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to paddy cave:

Anybody think central on brown cove be ok
jas wood - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to stuart58:

Once you have swam through the people start swimming through the snow. PLEASE don't think this is aimed at you personally Stuart !

Why do people go to the same honeypots when there is so much to offer in the lakes ?

In reply to jas wood:

So the rest of us with more knowledge and experience can have quieter crags? ;-)

NMM
stuart58 - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to jas wood:

It was for a short day spent last 3 weekends in scotland also cancelled this trip too. Thought I might get some compensation
stuart58 - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Just asking for a view. I've been climbing in winter since 1976 I know where the crags etc are! Lol
DSM - on 31 Jan 2014
Cumbria police report various closed roads @ 18:50/Fri/31
See here: http://www.cumbria.police.uk/traffic-link-map

DSM
Wesley Orvis - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to stuart58:

It was last night, in perfect nick the top half of the route, bottom was a little sugary so we did the first half of Stepped Ridge and then traversed in, but the amount of snow that as fell today along with the amount of snow already up there avalanche city imo. Get on a ridge.
windjammer - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to WJV0912:

I'm camping out in the lakes this weekend,brought a shovel with me ill post some pictures on Sunday


Dave Cumberland - on 31 Jan 2014
In reply to windjammer:

Wet wet wet wet wet!!
Avalanche Avalanche Avalanche Avalanche Avalanche!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care guys.

DC
ads.ukclimbing.com
MFB - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

langdale valley 100m
clear sky
1.5 degree c
not much wind at this level
stuart58 - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to MFB:
Is the forecast incorrect
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

snow surprisingly good on Red Screes this morning, nice and crispy, top half of Kilnshaw Chimney proper neve ice forming all around the sides of the gully, the thaw and refreeze this morning has done wonders for it, back home for 10 o'clock with a summit and route in, pretty cold on top -5 on the thermometer, winds building but not to bad, the Lakes looks amazing at the moment get out quick before it all goes.
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Ambulance still blocking the pass real early this morning and when we got back down there was 3 ambulances, his mates must have come to pull him out.
sbc_10 - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Is this the Kirkstone Pass Wesley?

It's just been on radio 5 live that it was blocked?
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

> Wet wet wet wet wet!!

> Avalanche Avalanche Avalanche Avalanche Avalanche!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> Take care guys.

> DC

Amazingly hardly any soft snow on Red Screes, don't about higher up were they didn't get the thaw and re-freeze.
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to sbc_10:

> Is this the Kirkstone Pass Wesley?

> It's just been on radio 5 live that it was blocked?

Yes we was heading to do Pinnacle Ridge but couldn't get over the pass and didn't have time to get round as my mate had to back early, so did the chimney and was great fun a few more days of this and it will get good ice was forming all over the place.
MFB - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to stuart58:

> Is the forecast incorrect

not sure what you mean
(can't remember suggesting forecast was off)

what i mean is that the weather conditions are as i report at the time i reported in the location i reported from - i have no means of forecasting

blisco 8am this morning
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/posts/713960871959018
stuart58 - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Is it neve or no snow?
Dave Cumberland - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> Amazingly hardly any soft snow on Red Screes, don't about higher up were they didn't get the thaw and re-freeze.

Soaking wet blowing a gale, snow showers heavy rain here at 300 metres.
Simply not cold enough for winter climbing.
Big avalanche risk assumed at level of tops.
DC


richlan - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Are you that desperate ?

You sound like you kid yourself into these conditions to justify what you do..........
Post edited at 14:15
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to richlan:

> Are you that desperate ?

> You sound like you kid yourself into these conditions to justify what you do..........

Get yourself out at some point, late at night or early one morning and you might find something in yourself, if you haven't been out at the same time and place, keep quiet. Don't need to justify anything to anyone the gully was in nick. Was a very cold morning.
xplorer on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to richlan:

It amazes me, at the amount of shit that gets thrown at Wesley. I went up Brown cove crags in October for a scramble, and to check out a winter line I've been looking at. This was the first snow fall of the winter season, and to my surprise I found Ice starting to develop on part of the route, about half way up. The temperature at ground level was around 8 degrees, so I was pretty shocked to find Ice at around 600m.

My point is, you just don't know what your going to find until you get out and have a look. You can sit at home in your armchair, doing the usual winter conditions preaching, but its Wesley that's getting out and trying to find something. And letting everyone know about conditions.

I find it hard to believe anyone (including Wesley) would come on UKC and give us his days experiences knowing that conditions were not in on the particular route/area. We all know how much shit he gets as it is, never mind if he was lying through his back teeth.

Keep at it Wesley, I imagine your armchair hasn't got much wear compared to richlans
paulh.0776 - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

HI Wesley
Keep up the good work, those of us that don't live so close enjoy the updates.......I sent you a PM yesterday, did you get it ok?
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to paulh.0776:

Cheers Paul, just replied mate.
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to xplorer:

Once again thanks for your support Explorer much appreciated again :-)

I mean why would I bullshit? I was amazed my self when we got out of the car at the pass at 6:30a.m. and slipped on the ice straight away, if ice was forming at the top of the pass then a few more hundred metres up obviously the snow would be frozen, there was a mega dump of snow yesterday followed by a pretty big thaw and then a refreeze in the early hours, we got up there before the cloud, snow and milder windier weather came in, check out my photos on fb the ice speaks for itself.
DSM - on 01 Feb 2014
Conditions report from a run up Coniston Old Man, 15:00/Sat/1/Feb.

Snow is lying on the ground from around the quarries up, 10cm @ Low Water 2 or 3 times this on the summit in drifts. Raining hard as far as Low Water, blowing a major gale on top. The upper part of the tourist path is well buried under quite firm snow.

I climbed Summit Route in fell running shoes which was banked out with firm snow & sheltered from the gale - loads of fun. Although the turf is not frozen I'd expect plenty of the easier snow-only routes hereabouts to give fine sport.

DSM
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to DSM:

This backs up what I have said cheers, the south west corner of the Lakes is always a little warmer than the east and if firm snow is on the Old Man then firm snow will be on Red Screes.
Wesley Orvis - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to DSM:

By the way how many times have you done summit route (II) now? Must be close to 50 or something.
DSM - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Well its certainly double figures! I've also done Low Water Beck about ten times over the last 30 or so years in a wide range of conditions. Its funny you never tire of this stuff do you.

DSM
Full moon addict - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

loads of neve or near neve all over the place on west side of helvellyn where exposed to the wind. most unpleasant on the top. real white out, blowing snow and a gale. character forming!
xplorer on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

No probs Wesley!!!!

Sent you a PM!
wilkobaggins - on 01 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Was on helvellyn today, climbed up catse cam , along swiril and down to do gully 1 on the red tarn face, very very strong gale force winds and white out conditions, snow was very soft until we hit around 700 meters, looked at the Viking buttress and there's not much in the way of placements for winter protection just yet, needs a bigger freeze. Take care over the weekend as the wind is really strong, it took my lid of my head on the decent, if anyone finds a green grivel salamander let me know :)
Dave Cumberland - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to wilkobaggins:

4 deg here at 300m.
Almost 1 am.
Mild, wet, windy.
All of those talking about winter conditions are full 'o sheeeet.

There are NO winter climbing conditions at present. If you are so frustrated - find a tree or go to the wall or an old quarry where tools are allowed..

Or better - do what Balcombe, Herford and O G Jones did - Go rock climbing! Stop imagining you have winter conditions when it takes two weeks of cold weather for the real McCoy to arrive.

DC
xplorer on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

It's funny how you have made the above conclusion by just sitting at home, or maybe walking to Gregg's.

Please tell me, when was the last time you actually got up high in the Lake District to check conditions.

These people who have commented about conditions have actually been out and witnessed first hand. What have you done today?
smithaldo - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to xplorer: this is the best thread ever more than 300 posts about lakes conditions when how many routes have been climbed in full winter conditions?

Andrew Wilson - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to smithaldo:

Probably because most of it is pointless drivel from people who don't like winter climbing in the lakes.

I was out yesterday for a look. I Walked up to Bowfell Buttress to see how it was, and as others have said it was a fine cold morning. Solid snow on the traverse in from the band. The turf on the base of the route in the cracks was just about frozen. There was plenty of ice forming at the base and the crag looked in good condition. The snow on the lower ledges needs a bit more consolidation to be much use but it's do-able. Not sure what the afternoons precipitation will have done to the crag but as it was when we left it, a few more days of cold should see it just right.
Had we got there a bit earlier I dare say we would have had a bash if no one was looking.

Andy.
Gav Parker - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to smithaldo:

I have to agree.....perhaps this thread should be deleted and a new thread started when we do get winter, perhaps next year!!
MFB - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/posts/714572258564546

from helvellyn today - loads of folk in brown cove, seemed to be enjoying it - wind brutal but not very cold
richlan - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to MFB:

Well the felltop assessor had something to say about the gullies today, wonder how many people took heed ?

From lakes weatherline for today:

Climbers: please note that the gullies are full of loose snow topped with unstable cornices so are not in condition.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Wesley Orvis - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Not good news today, the fells have been stripped big time, walked into pinnacle Ridge on St Sunday crag all the gullies had avalanched big time with lots of debris, saw two small avalanches too. Wet deep slush all the way to about 750m although still lots of it, Pinnacle Ridge bottom half has been stripped although the gullies still hold plenty, did the ridge summer style no crampons and just getting one axe for the traverse into the crux chimney although didn't use it for the crux was easier with hands and feet, from the back of the pinnacles and up the exit slope upto the summit neve and icey crust and good firm snow although too late for the route to be wintery, although managed without crampons to the summit but hard slippy work. Not looking good at the moment with the forecasted temps and the big strip yesterday and earlier today but a good refreeze would do wonders with lots of routes in.
Wesley Orvis - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Gav Parker:


Gav I know you and I know you haven't been out for a while so I find it quite hard for you to say that from your arm chair and reading ground temps.


Wesley Orvis - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to smithaldo:


> this is the best thread ever more than 300 posts about lakes conditions when how many routes have been climbed in full winter conditions?

True, not many, but one never knows when conditions are building that the next minute the thing you love has just disappeared over night, not much out of this season I agree but the Kilnshaw early yesterday and Central Gully Thursday night were definitely in, but I can't say anything else this season has been including Pinnacle Ridge today.

Gav Parker - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Haha.....only a bit of fun Wes!!!
Was it very windy today??
Avinash1 - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Gav Parker:
I was out on Helvellyn, up Striding and down Swirrel today.

Awesome. I didn't get rained on, which I hate. Sow knee deep in places, but we did the whole round in 7 hours from the car park. Some interesting sections to traverse on Swirral, but the sun shone and the winds abated, and definitely one of my better days in the Lakes

To the people who were out without axes and crampons, good that you turned back before. Some sections were icy. Large cornices on the exits, but were solid, and no avalanche debris...

To the guy who slipped on the exit of Striding edge, and missed his self arrest abut 20 m above me, and whose mate caught him!!! ( yeah WTF???!!!!), you have used up one of your lives today, but glad you are ok

Avi
Post edited at 18:29
BarmyAlex118 - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to aujayeb:

Does anyone know the conditions on red screes at all, considering going over there for an early morning winter climb before my lecture in the afternoon.
Dave Cumberland - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> Not good news today, the fells have been stripped big time,

Of course it's stripped - that was obvious when all you loonies were talking about "winter climbing" a day or two ago.
Glad to see that you have been out using hands and feet instead of tools.
Winter hasn't started yet.
DC


paulh.0776 - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to BarmyAlex118:

Had a walk up there today, nothing doing I'm afraid, what little snow there is, is patchy very soft and only high up. The summit was covered with crusty snow which broke when walked on, cold and windy. I don't think it'll freeze much tonight, but still good winter walking conditions.
Wesley Orvis - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

You just make me laugh now and have for a number of years, my favourite of yours was "winter climbing conditions do no exist unless Derwent Water is fully frozen"
MFB - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to richlan:

> Well the felltop assessor had something to say about the gullies today, wonder how many people took heed ?

> From lakes weatherline for today:

> Climbers: please note that the gullies are full of loose snow topped with unstable cornices so are not in condition.

I don't generally look at weatherline but i will in future

Q.when do they post this stuff - the readings where taken at 13.30

in this type of weather climbs/hills can come in and out of condition in a matter of hrs IMO
Wesley Orvis - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to MFB:

> in this type of weather climbs/hills can come in and out of condition in a matter of hrs IMO

Definitely agree with this, was right for yesterday morning before the storm arrived we could see the conditions change on the descent.

Dave Ferguson - on 02 Feb 2014
In reply to Andrew Wilson:
> (In reply to smithaldo)
>
> > Had we got there a bit earlier I dare say we would have had a bash if no one was looking.
>

Why would someone else looking make a difference to your decision?

Darren Jackson - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to aujayeb:

> I was out on Helvellyn, up Striding and down Swirrel today.

Me too. Great day, but the wind was certainly giving it some on the top.

> To the guy who slipped on the exit of Striding edge, and missed his self arrest abut 20 m above me, and whose mate caught him!!! ( yeah WTF???!!!!), you have used up one of your lives today, but glad you are ok

Lordy. Lucky boy.
Avinash1 - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Did we meet you Darren? We spoke to 2 guys on the top with a dog and a man and his son were right behind us the whole way
ambler - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
We did central gully on brown cove crags yesterday, people on route next to us, ice on rocks was pretty good. No cornice to talk of
juza - on 03 Feb 2014
Pendulum Gully on Scrubby Crag was in good conidtion on Saturday bottom step all banked out with wet firm snow, middle pitch nearly banked out with firm snow and fair bit of ice. Exit pitch plenty of ice to climb good rock anchors to the side and no cornice at the top just very firm snow.
Lots of spin drift coming down gully .
Decent was tough in winds but only short headed back down in too the cove in front of the crag.
Freezing level went up to about 750m at the end of the day...
BnB - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to juza:

Did you take a peek at Pendulum Ridge to the left of the gully? I've got that on my ticklist, possibly for later this week.
Darren Jackson - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to aujayeb:

> Did we meet you Darren? We spoke to 2 guys on the top with a dog and a man and his son were right behind us the whole way

No, I don't think that we met... You'd have remembered me; I was the wheezing, red-faced bloke who kept spiking himself in his calves, with his crampons, and swearing a lot. We were also probably the last pair down off the hill, having completed one of the all-time slowest rounds.
PontiusPirate on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Darren Jackson:


Here are my observations from yesterday:

Quick ascent of Raise from St John's in the Vale.
Snow line much, much lower on N to E facing aspects (thick banks down to below 600m still).
Freezing level approx 700m (lower than forecast), snow had a definite crust from that altitude upwards, becoming thicker (and the snow underneath firmer) as height was gained. People were ski-ing on the Raise ski area despite this mother of all breakable crusts!
There is a LOT of snow above 700m, any gully and hollow is full, only raised ground facing into the wind was stripped (or rather had a thin layer of very compacted, icy snow).
Summit of Raise was heavily verglassed.
Failed to dig a test pit as I intended due to the frozen snow.
All faces on Helvellyn visible from Raise, including Brown Cove Crags (before the cloud came in again) were almost entirely white - expect any gully in the North to East aspect to be holding a LOT of snow, probably with buried melt-freeze layers.
No sight of avalanche debris or signs of slumping or movement in the snowpack - the combination of wind and freeze thaw seems to have done a very good job of consolidation on these faces at least (which are no where near as sheltered as the Red Tarn face!)

Hope this is of some use for people.

PP.
Wesley Orvis - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

> Glad to see that you have been out using hands and feet instead of tools.

> Winter hasn't started yet.

I always use hands and feet unless it becomes too dangerous to carry on without tools, check all my above posts.

The fells may not be in climbing conditions at all times but conditions are coming and going, going more than coming fair enough, but over the last 2 weeks the fells have been plastered in snow and small amounts of ice, for you to say winter hasn't started yet just shows you to be slightly slow and a bit of a fool.

Wesley Orvis - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

I haven't been climbing that long but long enough to know that what happens at ground level has very little to do with whether climbing conditions are in or not high up, sure a good freeze from ground level to the summits will do wonders and we would all love it with gills and water lines freezing up, but that ain't happening, even on the good years over the last few years good climbing conditions have existed high up with fairly benign valley temps. Maybe not the steeper harder routes have come in this year but less steeper routes have come in and out as and when the snow refreezes. Not much frozen turf or ice this season but no tall routes rely on this either.
Dave Cumberland - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

> I haven't been climbing that long

That is pretty obvious .. .. .. and don't call people you do not know "slow" or "a bit of a fool".
You might get a shock when you meet them in person.

DC

Wesley Orvis - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
Cheers Dave, any chance you can let me know when conditions are in? You were still babbling this stuff when we had a good ground up freeze for over two weeks last year, I am sure in December 2009 you were still on the same page.
Post edited at 15:13
CurlyStevo - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

From the reports on this page, the fell top assessors report and the forecast for the next few days it looks like quite a lot of routes relying on snow or rock only may well be coming in to nick. Its mainly the avalanche danger (and wind!) that will be looking to hinder things as yet more snow on strong winds is predicted. The snow pack certainly looks likey to refreeze and various reports are stateing a lot in the gullies and white butreses. The lakes look quite good for actually getting some freeze thaw at the moment unlike much of Scotland.
Big Lee - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Well it’s definitely looking wintery from what I can tell. Lots of snow forecast, lots of freeze-thaw on higher areas, lots of wind as well so probably lots of slab. But definitely what I would describe as ‘winter’.
mockerkin on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

There has been a lot of wishful thinking in many of these posts.
juza - on 03 Feb 2014
So windy therefore very little snow on it !! turf not frozen deep enough!!


BnB - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to juza:

Thanks
Jim Haydock - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Went for a run up Coniston this afternoon.

Was up there on Friday when it was completely white and some deep snow from 700mts up but conditions have really changed in the last couple of days, certainly over in the SW lakes :(

Today there was hardly any snow to talk about, except on the N. side of the summit where there is still some deep-ish soft snow.

Looking towards the scafells and the northern hills there is still quite a bit of snow hanging in there so..... here's hoping the weather gets colder. Just an update guys, fingers crossed eh.

JH.
CurlyStevo - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to Jim Haydock:

did you see this http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/ the gallery may be of interest too.....
LakesWinter on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yeah but you know, nothing is in condition because it takes 2 weeks to get any routes in in the Lakes…….

That said we still need a few days freeze to properly sort the turf out
MFB - on 03 Feb 2014
MFB - on 03 Feb 2014
In reply to MFB:

Thanks for the photos, great information. From what I saw of Shelter crag on Saturday, it needed this thaw. Have you seen/heard any reports of whether Bowfell Links is holding any snow?

Thanks

Adrian
martinph78 on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Had a quick look up the West side of Helvellyn today. Snow on the ground higher up but no ice, made for good walking conditions though. Wish I'd remembered to take my boots!

It was really mild though, hardly what you'd call "winter". Saw a couple of climbers heading up to check things out, but I think that they came back down soon after I did so guessing that they found similar. I'd be surprised if they found anything in on that side of the mountain anyway.
MFB - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

http://t.co/UdH8cPacsi

fresh snow last night
buttress looks the part
all change tonight
OliBangbala - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to MFB:

I went up bowfell buttress today and got caught in a whiteout, loads of fresh snow down and some ice beginning to form
Wesley Orvis - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Went up Helvellyn today worst whiteout I have ever been in nearly had to turn back from the path next to Brown cove due to the whiteout and the slope was that loaded with wind slab it was like been in a gully and this was on the path

Crazy day out forecast was well wrong sunglasses from the glare was mentioned I didn't see sun at all. What I did see was a Brown cove more loaded with wind slab than I have ever seen before, there is a shit load of snow in the cove now, we traversed under the routes all the way across the crag but sticking to the scoured parts, but the turf wasn't frozen on anything and everything else was well buried in tons of wind slab, the gullies are the most loaded I have ever seen, the whole lot is just waiting to avalanche, most teams turned around from the routes in fact most walkers turned around too today didn't see anyone on the plateau or the summit at all.

Was one really brave/stupid team heading up Left Parallel gully which imo was extremely dangerous also seen signs of someone swimming up The large descent gully to the right of the main crag again you wouldn't catch me doing it.

Hardest ascent of Helvellyn so far and must be my 30th at least ascent possibly a lot more, this was due to strong winds complete white out and very deep wind slab everywhere.

All in all things are looking fantastic for snow quantities and ice starting to form, it will take a while to shift this lot and more due over the next few day, all we need now is a few freeze thaw cycles and things will be marvellous.
paddy cave - on 04 Feb 2014
Wesley Orvis - on 04 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Dug 3 pits in the cove under the gully areas, we found between 6 and 12 inches of wind slab sat on top of six inches of breakable semi consolidated crust with about 2 feet of dry sugary powder underneath that, no hard snow until on the summit plateau.
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Thanks for the report. Has anybody seen Jogebar gully area recently? Wondering how scoured it is and how the ice build up is developing...

NMM
BnB - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

I'm free Friday for climbing if anyone is available. Looks like the first day's proper winter weather this season. Anything mixed or snow/ice with due regard for conditions and safety.

See post http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=577622&new=7663536#x7663536
Avinash1 - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to BnB:

I would be up for Friday too, but unfortunately I need a lift from Newcastle
Wesley Orvis - on 05 Feb 2014
In reply to BnB:

Looks like the first day's proper winter weather this season.

Don't forget about last Thursdays easterlies, Thursday night was a good night for climbing after the cold easterlies all day plus it was clear.
AndyT_uk - on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Any ideas what it's going to be like from Saturday onwards. Heading up to Ambleside for the week and taking the girlfriend for her first trip to the Lakes. Is there going to be anything walkable without crampons/axes do you think?

Any recommendations as well on what would be worth checking out in current conditions?
mrplastique - on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to AndyT_uk:

Wet and windy on Saturday by the looks of things, freezing level approx 700m
http://www.mwis.org.uk/zgntcmivacwsmzo/LD.PDF

Unfortunately it doesn't look a great weekend for your girlfriends first trip to the Lakes. Sunday may be better

Lee
AndyT_uk - on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to mrplastique:

Cheers, doesn't look great. We have all of next week up there too so hopefully we'll manage to get out a few days.

I'd quite like to get Helvellyn and Great Gable ticked off as I've had them on my list for a little while. Hopefully they'll be ok during the week!
neilwiltshire on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to AndyT_uk:

Is that you Andy?

Was up Great Gable the other week, went up Aarons Slack from the Borrowdale side, a fine hike though sadly we didn't have a view at the top. Well worth while. Not sure of current conditions there, sounds like it might be snowy? I'd appreciate hearing what the gullys on Great End looks like if you're passing that side!
climber666 on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to neilwiltshire:

5 deg currently at 1000 feet, fells stripped, rain showers coming through at present, freezing level touches down on tops Friday.
CurlyStevo - on 06 Feb 2014
A Mountain Journey - on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Red Screes this afternoon: http://mark-mountainjourneys.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/in-search-of-winter-red-screes-6th-feb.html

Kilnshaw chimney is currently a watercourse!
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> yes freezing level looks quite a bit higher than forecast

The forecast said freezing level above the summits dropping down to 900m today which seems to be what it's done. Let's hope it does drop down tomorrow though. Could have done with the Weatherline report from the tops today!!!

NMM

In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Anybody seen if there was any snow/ice build up around Jogebar gully?

Cheers

NMM
paddy cave - on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

Still plenty of snow and gullies well filled, freezing level near or above tops today. Sunday colder, Monday looks promising. A freeze will turn a lot of damp snow into good neve very quickly. Good snow for skiing on today on west aspects around Helvellyn... damp but light.
Chris Huntington - on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Paddy cave done a conditions report on youtube today pretty good (as you would expect from paddy)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwqAyruYDug
Chris Huntington - on 06 Feb 2014
In reply to paddy cave:

Ha, I didn't see his written report! Link above.
CurlyStevo - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

which forecast were you using MWIS when I read it said freezing levels below the summits.
mrplastique - on 07 Feb 2014
Reckon it's worth a trip to the Lakes this weekend? I was planning on going after work today but forecast isn't looking great for Saturday in particular.
Although I've not had a huge amount of confidence in MWIS forecasts recently as some 'Torturous' conditions in the Caingorms turned out to be a light breeze
climber666 on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to mrplastique:

Raining at moment. Weekend forecast is dire. Pub and wall weather, or DIY philosophy.
AndyT_uk - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to neilwiltshire:

Yup that's me dude :) Cheers for the tips, totally missed your other message about the Lakes! Hopefully it'll be dry and not too snowy for a few days up there. Will let you know if we get out that way of course. Hope to actually organise a few more trips up there soon, just need get myself sorted :)
ads.ukclimbing.com
Wesley Orvis - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Things not looking too bad today, walked into Browncove Crags again and the snow had started to consolidate nicely, the bottoms of the gullies still a little crunchy and sugary but good hard snow about quarter of the way up and bomber neve for the top 50m.

Went up Right Parallel Gully, down the big wide decent gully and back up Central Gully, the ice pitch at the bottom of Central is completely banked out and buried and good conditions are starting to form, looks like things could come really good on Monday or Tuesday shame I am back at work.

Tomorrow looks a little rough but Sunday could be ok, forecast was ban on today with freezing level at about 700m and good clear conditions on the way down.
Wesley Orvis - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Had a walk over to Helvellyn summit in another whiteout after the climbs and crampons necessary for the plateau and the top half of the gullies.
Si Withington - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Had a wander up onto Raise today to scope out some slopes for a Winter Skills course this weekend. Not much to see high up. Very cold in the wind & bomb hard neve on wind scoured slopes. Deeper softer wetter snow on leeward slopes with an unhelpful crust. Plenty of skiers out, despite the wild conditions. Looking super wild this weekend... should be a fun one! http://www.facebook.com/lakelandascents
SidharthaDongre - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Anyone know if the Felltop Assessor is OK? No pictures for two days, and no update today!
Post edited at 20:24
bluebealach - on 07 Feb 2014
SidharthaDongre - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to bluebealach:

Yep, it reiterates what I just said! No pictures for two days, and no update today.
bluebealach - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to SidharthaDongre:
Fell Top Conditions on Friday 7 February

Readings from Helvellyn summit at 12:00

Temperature not taken Maximum wind speed not taken Wind chill not taken Average wind speed not taken

There has been a slight thaw at all levels, but a significant amount of snow remains on the fells above 600m.The depth increases with height but varies depending on the scouring on the wind, with exposed ground holding a couple of centimetres whereas sheltered east through to north facing slopes have depths of up to 90cm in drifts and hollows.

Large cornices exist above east to north facing slopes and gullies, so please keep well back from the edge.

Both Striding and Swirral Edges are covered with a substantial amount of snow and ice and exposed routes such as these should only be tackled by those experienced and equipped for winter conditions. The final exit ramp of Swirral Edge in particular has a steep section of unavoidable snow and ice and an ice axe and crampons are essential for the safe negotiation of this.

Full winter clothing and footwear are essential for anyone venturing onto the fells. For those going onto steep or technical ground, an ice axe and crampons are also essential.

Agree that no readings or photos taken since the 5th Feb (sorry my mistake) but that seems to be the report.
Post edited at 20:49
SidharthaDongre - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to bluebealach:

That was the report from yesterday too. Not a word changed from what I can see!
bluebealach - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to SidharthaDongre:
Sorry, I didn't check, but he was involved in a rescue of two walkers who fell from Swirrel Edge on Friday.

Not sure if you were aware of not but it could have something to do with it.
Post edited at 21:05
BnB - on 07 Feb 2014
In reply to bluebealach:

Did Pinnacle Ridge on Great Gable today. Had to wiggle about a bit to avoid turf which was not frozen. No ice in sight. Instead found plenty of deep snow to wade up, turning the route into barely grade II.

To satisfy ambition had to scare myself doing a very short mixed pitch that would rate VDiff in summer, so maybe IVish?

In short, winter still not arrived.
martinph78 on 08 Feb 2014
In reply to BnB:

Pretty much my experience of anything South of The Wall.

> In short, winter still not arrived.

Optimism at it's best, by still not arrived I think you must mean "see you next winter"?

Don't get me wrong, I'm out again tomorrow, but the crampons and axes are staying at home. Even the down jacket has only been used twice this year, at the pub!





zola - on 08 Feb 2014
In reply to Martin1978:

Went up to brown cove crags yesterday not expecting to much and yes plenty of snow wading! Turf wet through and a lot of water seepage on the rock lower down. We ended up doing a snow plod up Central gully. In a word high pressure systems wanted in the uk if the big man is listening lol !!
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Anybody seen the snow slopes at the top of Nethermost gully? Wondering if it's hanging doom or nicely scoured?

NMM
Chris Huntington - on 08 Feb 2014
In reply to BnB:

Pinnacle ridge on gable or st Sunday crag?
BnB - on 08 Feb 2014
In reply to Chris Huntington:

The clue is in the first sentence :-)
charlie out - on 08 Feb 2014
In reply to BnB:

Winter has cerainly arrived, you just need to put your axes down and get out your skis ;-)
richlan - on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to charlie out:

You must be having a laugh ! Pouring down with rain in the lakes at the moment.....
Eddie1234 - on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Loads of fresh snow on Helvelyn, a quick update from yesterday here:
http://roebuckmountaineering.co.uk/blog/
xplorer on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to richlan:

> You must be having a laugh ! Pouring down with rain in the lakes at the moment.....


hahaha, come on richlan. You do realise it's probably snowing high up! And that certainly doesn't mean you can't ski, or climb for that matter.
xplorer on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

If the weather predictions are correct for next week. Its looking pretty good for some climbing!
richlan - on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to xplorer:

Yes i realise that but i hardly think it warrants a "winter has arrived" exclamation with a snow level of 650 meters

I skiied last weekend, got the kit in the van this morning but pouring rain at Dunmail Raise meant it was a non starter, its faired up now and i will be up there next weekend, if it stops raining.......
xplorer on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to richlan:
Ok, well I appreciate that you may not think "that winter has arrived" but I'm sure if you got high up you would change your mind.

It was certainly winter on helvellyn on Tuesday, and I don't think it has change much since then.

Everybody has their own aims and goals, and for some winter ridge walks and skiing it definitely is winter!

There have been people skiing in the lakes over the last good couple of weeks now, and plenty of winter ridges completed.
Post edited at 16:00
richlan - on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to xplorer:

Sigh.......thanks for clarifying where is an isn't winter for me, helpful.

I toured up to Helvellyn last weekend, it was very nice, i intend to do the same next weekend.
DSM - on 09 Feb 2014
Helvellyn Report: 1400ish/Sun/9/Feb

Just returned from a run up Helvellyn from Greenside taking in Striding/Swirral Edges (fell shoes + 2 short axes). There's lots of fresh & very wet snow around from the tarn up (10-20cm+) lying on the previous crusty layer of deep snow. So rather hard going in places & potentially dangerous in gullies & on steeper slopes etc. Having said that the ridges seemed OK. Striding edge top out was a little icy but Swirral's comprised soft snow. Cornices in abundance. There's no sign of freezing turf yet I think. Blowing a gale on top, but windless going up Striding Edge.

DSM
xplorer on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to richlan:

No probs dude, you seemed like you needed help! ;-) so we both agree it's winter now then?

Best bet is to leave the car park, head high and be optimistic and positive, you might surprise yourself!

I feel a lot of this winter conditions slanging is just the annoyance of not getting out.

I should know, I'm in the same boat! Haha
Exile - on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Can I please draw everybody's attention to this:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=578116

Thanks.
Dave Cumberland - on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to DSM:

> Helvellyn Report: 1400ish/Sun/9/Feb
There's no sign of freezing turf yet I think.
> DSM

How many times do the tiny minority of morons looking for "winter" need to be told actually and from many years of experience - THERE ARE NO WINTER CONDITIONS.
Yet.
DC

simondgee - on 09 Feb 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Dave I have to say the beligerent way you state stuff isn't doing your case much good.
The thread is LAKES CONDITIONS it applies as much to ski touring of which there has been some good fun already, along with scrambling, winter running and general activities above the intake. It is in fact 'Winter' and these are 'Winter conditions'n...they just happen to be outside some narrow minded views of winter. Let is go a bit fella...whatever is posted on here will not make any difference to any chump (and you are tlaking about 1 or 2 not bus loads that turn up looking to climb instead of continuing North. Lets keep encouraging reports from those who are active 12 months a year...If you want to start a Lakes Winter Climbing Thread knock yerself out.
j0ntyg on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to simondgee:

There are forums for skiers, hill walkers and runners. This is a winter CLIMBING forum. Over the course of this thread DC has been more correct than many others,(apart from his tongue in cheek comment about Derwent Water freezing.) The Lakes conditions are not what we normally call good climbing conditions here in the Lakes. It is too warm and wet at the moment. Many posts have been too wishfull thinking by people who don't know the Lakes.
SidharthaDongre - on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to j0ntyg:
Actually, I'm viewing this thread from the UK Hillwalking site.
Post edited at 08:53
simondgee - on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to j0ntyg:
Lakes Conditions are fantastic today ...get yourself out the tops, fells and the valleys are gorgeous and some of the crags actually feel quite warm, there is a fresh layer of snow from the weekend mainly high up that is being modified and wet to the ground this will continue to create a base...wonderful Lakes Winter Conditions enjoy yourself.
j0ntyg on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to simondgee:

wonderful Lakes Winter Conditions enjoy yourself.

Wonderful for what, climbing?
What we seem to have on this thread is a lot of people wandering around the fells like lost souls hoping to come across a gully in nick to climb. Like someone wandering around a desert hoping to come across an oasis.
What wonderful climbing conditions in the Lakes means is that you decide the day before what you are going to climb because all the fells are in good condition.
The chances of that though are becoming rarer as climate change increases.

xplorer on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to j0ntyg:

That statement, is what separates you from actually getting out in the mountains. Whether you just end up walking or actually finding something to climb its a good day out.

Sat at home constantly and consistently preaching about your interpretation of Winter conditions is just stopping you from getting out and enjoying yourself.

You probably don't have that much of an idea on actual winter climbing conditions. I've noticed a lot of people just jump on the UKC conditions debate, just to have a cause to fight. When really there isn't one.

The lake district winter community needs to evolve. There have been winter ascents this season, end of. The whole of the lake district doesn't need to be frozen for winter routes to come in, yet a few of you on UKC consistently pretend that's the case.

The odd winter route in the Peak District comes into condition within a couple of days sometimes. And the highest turf route there is at most 500m.
robatkinson - on 10 Feb 2014
It is a little irritating to me that this topic has evolved into a debate on what classes as winter conditions.

Go and start a new topic called 'never ending debate on winter conditions in the lakes'.

It would be great if the only people to post on this topic were people with genuine experience of hill conditions on that day. not sat in the valley looking out of the lounge window and grumbling.

im heading out tomorrow and all i want to read is condition reports as appose to a debate that never ends and is repeated year on year.



AndyT_uk - on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Has anyone been over to great gable in the past few days? Just wondering what it looks like there for the next day or two.

Cheers,
Andy
redsonja - on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to AndyT_uk:

im not sure which way you are planning to go up great gable, but apparently the borrowdale road is closed for 6 weeks and diversions are via whinlatter and lorton
Radioactiveman - on 10 Feb 2014

Went up swirral and down striding today. Lots of fresh soft snow the red tarn face is plastered with the gullies difficult to make out due to volume of snow.

Some signs of slumping in the gullies, vis was poor so couldn't see the state of cornices. Snow was soft and poor quality on swirral not pleasant going up probably worse going down.

Descent to striding was better but certainly not solid neve. Heavy covering of snow along the edge and much firmer than on swirral and dropped back into red tarn in knee deep firm powder. I don't ski but it looks deep and good for skiing. Warm in the sun ,in fact we had our butties half way along striding when the sun broke through .

If the snow consolidates though freeze thaw etc it looks promising ....
Post edited at 16:42
Gav Parker - on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to Radioactiveman:

Thanks for that exactly what this thread should be about.....
Full moon addict - on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

i went up striding and over to fairfield and st sunday. there are large areas of neve in windblown areas. going up fairfield from the stream outlet there was plenty of neve higher up and this faces NW. similarly NW slopes on dollywagon and nethermost. where its been sheltered its still soft. I thought striding edge was very nice today. Gullies would not have been. once it freezes properly it will be very good. there;s excellent cover now above 700m.
A Mountain Journey - on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to j0ntyg:

Yes absolutely wonderful conditions today in the Lakes. Plenty folk out skiing & walking, enjoying great views in pretty good weather. The first photo here sums the day up for me: http://mark-mountainjourneys.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/raise-sheffield-pike-winters-walk.html

Mark
Burty21 - on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to Full moon addict:

Went up towards Great End today and thought I'd report what I saw. Never intended on going up any of the gullies, but wanted to go and have a closer inspection.

Very soft snow with a thickish crust and central gully has paid out an avalanche in the last day or so too. Looking up the gully it is totally loaded and looks ready to blow again.

So basically, don't bother planning on heading up it unless you want to have an interesting time of it!

Sprinkling tarn just has slush on top and doesn't look like it is close to freezing and all turf is just full of water.
In reply to Burty21:

Thanks for the report. Was the snow damp under the crust or was it powdery?

Also, has anybody been over the Scafells or seen the snow cover over there? Just wondering whether the snow has been wetter with it being closer to the coast...

NMM
Burty21 - on 10 Feb 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

More on the damper side.
Saw some folks who made it to calf cove and they reckoned it was icy enough to require crampons heading towards SFP. Snow cover from what I saw on Lingmell and the lower slopes of SFP looked to be pretty good.
MFB - on 11 Feb 2014
SethChili - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

What are the chances of the snow freezing and staying put at higher levels ? The pattern of late seems to be loads of snow followed by a temperature rise and the fells being stripped bare up to the summits .
Hopefully the conditions will consolidate over the next week as I'm up in the Lakes in about 10 days time .
martinph78 on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to SethChili:

432 posts since December, I'd say it's still anybody's guess!

Full moon addict - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to SethChili:

no chance of being stripped bare. the snow up high is here to stay for a while. there's decent cover now. I'd say its set for the next month or more.
CurlyStevo - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to SethChili:

I don't think Helvelyn has fully thawed in about a month. Looking back at the fell top assessor's gallery this was the only thaw that really stripped everything back in that time (on 25th jan) and then the gullies had stuff left in them

http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/__data/assets/image/0018/411534/P1250021.JPG
In reply to CurlyStevo:

I agree and I also tend to think that the bowl to the side of Viking buttress hasn't really produced a big avalanche in that time (may be wrong?). So there is a lot of potential for a big one as I tend to think there'll still be weaknesses at quite a depth!

Quite a bit of debris below No.2 gully on Sunday. Wouldn't touch that face with a barge pole...

NMM
In reply to MFB:

Thanks. Looks like SC icefall is forming nicely!

NMM
A Mountain Journey - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

Been around Brown cove crags this afternoon. Winds high up were savage, loads of snow being shifted around.
Was quite busy in there, for a tuesday.
A few photos here: http://mark-mountainjourneys.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/a-wild-and-windy-day-on-helvellyn-range.html
Mark
Paluchi - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

Did you go up to Great End for a butchers today NMM? Hows it looking up there? Still silly amounts of soft snow?

I was up there on thurs, lots of av debris beneath SC and Central. Knee deep fresh snow up to the base of the routes. Crux steps in both gullys had abit of ice forming, just needs the snow to consolidate. Had a look in a window, again ice forming but thin and absolutely plastered in huge amounts of soft snow. Ended up going for a stroll up custs, never seen soo much snow in there, quite firm tho.
In reply to Paluchi:

I'm afraid I'm limited to weekends. Sounds like Great End needs a lot of freeze thaw to sort it out.

NMM
richlan - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to Paluchi:

Some bloody crazy people out there, a gully on a day like today.....
Wesley Orvis - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to richlan:

> Some bloody crazy people out there, a gully on a day like today.....

I think they are on Parallel Gully Rib in between the two gullies, even so it has a snow arête in the middle which can be dodgy in such conditions.
Wesley Orvis - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Snow on lying on Benson Knott just outside Kendal from around 150m this evening
BnB - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Yes, that's the rib between the parallel gullies. Nice easy grade 2 and a good route in those conditions but worth taking care traversing under the gullies onto the rib. That snow arte does indeed look delicate, there's little for the axes on that section, just impenetrable rubble-packed turf.
shaun stephens - on 11 Feb 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Ive got to say that I really do wish that the moderators on here would just have a word in your ear about your attitude . It stinks and I would really love to know what your problem is, all that ever come from you is an insidious river of bile and insult. If you really are like this please get yourself a new outlet and leave this foum alone.
marzi - on 12 Feb 2014
We camped at red tarn helvellyn on Monday night. Far too much snow in the gullies to climb and the buttresses seemed pretty inaccessible, as the other guy said, you could ski around the area, we had 70 mph winds trash our tents and got no sleep, heavy snow drifts into the tent vestibule. Fun night but abandoned the summit the next morning due to stormy conditions and went dry tooling in the works instead.

Tom W - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to BnB:
That was myself and a friend on the Parallel Gully Rib. It was in fantastic condition, very enjoyable. The bridge was a little soft on top but fine underneath. The gullies however are very full and unconsolidated at the moment, and should be avoided. Lots of people out skiing. Wet and windy today, I'm guessing there will be soft wet powder up high now. I'm spending the day at home!

In response to Mr Cumberland, I think if you use your head, and go out not expecting to climb you might just be pleasantly surprised what you may find. We do not have the winter climbing conditions of the last few years where you could pick and choose, but there are some climbs to be had, the walking is superb, and (I hear) the skiing fantastic. I do not know what you are basing your assertion on that there are no winter conditions yet, as I say, if you actually go for a look you might enjoy yourself. If you spend all your time on here shooting other people down for at least having a look, you might just miss out on a memorable day.
Post edited at 12:04
ads.ukclimbing.com
Wesley Orvis - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to Tom W:
All of Dave Cumberland's assertions are based on whether or not, or how much Derwent Water and Lake Windermere are frozen over. What a fool.
Post edited at 12:09
DR - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

This thread has been going on since mid December and there are a handful of sketchy routes been recorded. In all that time, turf really hasn't been frozen, little ice has formed but at last there is shedloads of snow on the tops. Winter climbing conditions, and I stress climbing conditions, have been poor all winter let's face it.

I haven't climbed this winter yet because of those conditions. I'm not good enough to climb steep mixed routes and I've no desire to do easier routes in current conditions. There are some of us who are concerned about the environmental impact of winter climbing and for me, it is the potential for destroying arctic alpine plant communities by climbing on unfrozen turf. For others it is the damage to three star rock routes on certain crags - see other posts for the new BMC Lakes winter climbing guide.

I agree with what Dave Cumberland has said on this thread but not the way that he has said it. The levels of antagonism on here are ridiculous and Wesley, I'm afraid you perpetuate it by having a right old go at almost anybody who puts forward an alternative view. Take a deep breath and wind your neck in - it might stop you getting your account suspended again and might make you come across as less of a dick. Respect for the amount you get out on the hills, but little else.

Aye,
Davie

And Ps. please please please someone at UKC Towers delete this thread and start a new one!
Wesley Orvis - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to DR:

Cheers will wind my neck in a little.
Wesley Orvis - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to DR:

> This thread has been going on since mid December and there are a handful of sketchy routes been recorded. In all that time, turf really hasn't been frozen, little ice has formed but at last there is shedloads of snow on the tops. Winter climbing conditions, and I stress climbing conditions, have been poor all winter let's face it.

Agreed, the few easy gullies I have climbed this season have been fairly consolidated and been that full of snow I can guarantee no plants or turf for that matter have been touched or even got close to and any buttress's I have done have been summer style, cheers for your input all the same. But walkers and other mountain users do like to know when snow is down regardless of climbing conditions.

Wesley Orvis - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to DR:

The levels of antagonism on here are ridiculous and Wesley, I'm afraid you perpetuate it by having a right old go at almost anybody who puts forward an alternative view. Take a deep breath and wind your neck in - it might stop you getting your account suspended again and might make you come across as less of a dick

I am trying.

wercat on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to Tom W:

Don't know about yesterday but I was surprised how pleasant the conditions were in Central gully on Brown Cove on Monday. I approached it with great caution and was pleasantly surprised. A lot of snow yes, but far from unstable. Not a "polystyrene crust" by any means and tough enough to take good solid steps to an underlayer that compressed reasonably - rather better than I'd expected.

Banked out to grade 1 but requiring constant appraisal of the snow condition. Slight and very solid steepening, almost cornice at the top easily avoidable which wasn't necessary.

Descent gully seemed safe later on after a walk to Helvellyn, took careful steps at first and then reckless abandon facing outwards, axe ready to arrest but not needed until a magnificent glissade was too tempting.
wercat on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Of course conditions will probably be different by now and even on Monday I would have not gone near Great End or Red Tarn as the cornices there are pretty sizeable. I did test the cornice near Swirral Edge and found it quite solid but visibility was too poor to see what lay beyond. I imagine quite a bit might have fallen in the area since judging by the weather in the last 2 days and nights
SidharthaDongre - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to DR:

To be fair mate, this thread is pretty useful for non-climbers, like me, who are keeping an eye on conditions for trips to the areas being discussed.

The thread is visible on non-climbing iterations of the site, and the thread title doesn't specify 'climbing' conditions. To say, "delete this thread", is a disservice to other users whom you also might want to consider.
xplorer on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to DR:

Have you even been out on the hills this winter DR?

Just because conditions in general have been poor, it doesn't mean people haven't found certain particular routes that have been in perfectly acceptable condition.

As long as there are reports on the internet, there will always be arrogant and selfish comments made, coming from boring, arm chair climbers.

A lot of people appreciate anyone's condition report's, its just a small minority of idiot's with hidden agenda's that like to stir the shit!
martinph78 on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to xplorer:

Or maybe some people are getting out and are disappointed. It's easy to have endless optimism if you live in the Lakes, but if you are travelling 2 hours each way with a climbing agenda then that soon wears off.

I gave up a while ago, and accept I'll most likely be walking rather than winter climbing when I'm driving over.

Winter hasn't really happened, not in any reliable way that those outside of the Lakes can appreciate. The odd route that's in condition for a few hours one week will suit the locals with time to spare. Good for them. For the rest of us, the reality is that this has been a bad (non-existant) year for winter climbing in the lakes.

That's fine, I accept that, but let's not pretend it's anything else.

Matt_b - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to DR:
Destroying rare Arctic alpine plants by climbing on unfrozen turf is a realistic prospect. At one of the BMC area meetings a very informative talk was given by Simon Webb(?) from Natural England. He highlighted a rare plant on the second(?) belay of Rape and Pillage on Helvellyn. I have no idea of whether a ban could legally be enforced on this crag to protect these plants, but perhaps it's better not to find out? (By going against the guidelines)

A theme of this thread is conflict between people reporting what they see on the same day. Thankfully those of us that live close to the Lakes can stick our head out of the window, those that don't will be trying to get useful information from this. Be it to work out if they need an axe for a weekend walking, or if they are going to get frozen feet going fell running. However it's all subjective. My idea of fantastic conditions is a nice blue sky day, no wind and squeaky neve for climbing winter routes.
Post edited at 14:58
ERB - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Keep the reports comming, most of us know if its worth a trip to the Lakes to climb, your reports help us make our mind up. If the winter climbing conditions are not in revert to the back up plan walking/scrambling or gear shopping.

Mark

PS Id rather climb with an optimist any day.
xplorer on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to Martin1978:

I don't get you Martin, who is pretending anything else?

Not one single person has stated that the conditions are completely in. Only a couple of people have climbed the odd route, and then let us know. Anybody with any sense, can see its been a shit winter so far.

I really don't get your post dude??????? and where you're coming from??????

Actually read what ive said, and then post something that relates to my post!
xplorer on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to ERB:

"Keep the reports comming, most of us know if its worth a trip to the Lakes to climb, your reports help us make our mind up. If the winter climbing conditions are not in revert to the back up plan walking/scrambling or gear shopping.

Mark

PS Id rather climb with an optimist any day."


I like your style Mark. It really is a shame that everyone else can't just be "normal" and be positive.

In reply to xplorer:


> Not one single person has stated that the conditions are completely in.

People have said they have done routes, so presumably they believe that those routes were 'in'. I find the idea of conditions not being "completely in", as you say, confusing. Is that then "out"?
xplorer on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to TobyA:

By completely, I mean the whole of the lake district.

You're just trying to stir the shit dude! You knew exactly what I was meaning.

Are you not aware that certain routes can come in nick, without everything else being climbable?
In reply to xplorer:

I had no idea what you meant. You are developing form for writing confusingly then accusing people of deliberately misconstruing what you wrote when they don't understand you. Believe me, a lot of the time I really don't have much idea what you mean.

What routes have you done this winter out of interest?
Dave Cumberland - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to xplorer:

For the record, today, at 1000 feet, it is raining like hell. There is no snow cover, the ground is soft like thick soup.
This correspondent tries to report conditions accurately purely for altruistic reasons of helping others, and numerous first ascents have been completed of Lakes winter ice and mixed routes from grade 3 to 6, also do spend a lot of time climbing or walking high up on the fells both here and in Scotland and see quite a lot of them every day. Blencathra has snow only on the upper reaches (top 500 feet), below that everything is wet, unfrozen, mostly raining. Similar High Street. Helvellyn has excess and dangerous amounts of snow at the highest levels, the western fells are lean and soaking.
Take those latest observations how you will.
DC
xplorer on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to TobyA:

Sorry Toby, but I believe you are just being pedantic.

And I haven't done any winter routes in the lake district this year, what that matters to you I don't know?
xplorer on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Fresh snow is still falling and lying as low as 300m on the central fells. This snow is very wet resulting in slippery paths. The depth of snow increases to around 10cm at 500m and an average of 20cm at 700m, but with much deeper patches of up to 90cm in drifts and hollows above this level.The strong winds with falling snow make for very unpleasant walking conditions.

A large amount of loose, unstable windslab up to 60cm deep has accumulated on northeast through to southeast facing aspects above 800m, where it is lying on top of compacted neve. Extensive cornices exist above northeast through to southeast facing slopes, so keep well back from the edge above these slopes. Exposed wind-scoured areas are often free of snow, but the ground is covered with large amounts of ice instead.

Both Striding and Swirral Edges and the ridges of Blencathra are in winter condition and covered by a substantial amount of deep snow and ice. Exposed routes such as these should only be tackled by those experienced and equipped for full winter mountaineering conditions. Full winter clothing, footwear and equipment are essential for anyone venturing onto the fells and going above the snowline. For those going onto steep or technical ground an ice axe and crampons are also essential.


CurlyStevo - on 12 Feb 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
I don't really see what the conditions at 1000 feet have to do with conditions at nie on 3000 feet.

Currently if it rained heavily for a few hours at all levels and then refroze to say -1 at around 2500 feet and didn't snow, stuff on helvelyn would be in very good condition in a couple of days. Not all of it granted but the routes based on snow ice would be. However at a 1000 feet very little would have changed
Post edited at 16:03
In reply to Wesley Orvis:

This thread has caused us so many problems that I am now locking it.

Please continue further discussion on Lakes Conditions on Paddy's 'Official' thread here - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=577893 . This will be renewed from time to time with a fresh conditions update in a new thread.

Alan

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.