UKC

origin of 'new wave of soft shell'

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
I'm sure I recall a discussion on here where someone quoted from a Patagonia catalogue, acknowledging Buffalo as the original soft shell, but I can't find it.

Can anyone remember the discussion, or come up with a quote from (an old, I assume) Patagonia catalogue?

Yes, it's sad and obsessive, I know, but this is the sort of thing that does my head in...

ta.
Vlad 28 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia:

Dunno, but I did have a friend who thought his buffalo was the best thing he'd ever bought that he didn't take it off for 6 months - rumour was he even had sex in it...but then again unless he was also bathing in it one would imagine his number of liasons was quite small...
 David Hooper 28 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia: I heard a story that the Cham guides were impressed with Brits wearing Buffalo but wouldn't wear it cos it wasnt sexy. They prevailed upon Patagonia to bring out a sexy version of Buffalo. Dunno if its true - but its a good story.

BTW The Patagonia stuff turns up cheap in TKMaxx now and again at brilliantly cheap prices.
Dave Hunter, Rock + Run 29 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia:

I'm not sure about this.

The current (well last yearish) thinking from Patagonia was that Waterproof-breathable was a blind alley that had started in the 70s. Before that folk had used 'soft shells' of one sort or another. So Buffalo wasn't the original. I guess Tweed suits were. But Buffalo was the first modern soft shell. Good idea but too heavy, too warm and too bulky compared to it's more modern competitors. It's decent kit and works but imnsho, you can get better value for money nowadays.

If I have time (unlikely), I'll see if I can find an old catalogue.
Dave Hunter, Rock + Run 29 Sep 2004
In reply to David Hooper:

Perhaps the guides thought Buffalo was good winter kit in the 80s. Too hot for summer use tho'. Though many folk still wear it for summer Alpine use.
 Damo 29 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia:

Windproof, breathable, water-resistant but not waterproof ? That would be Ventile, early versions used by Shackleton etc and later by Fiennes etc. BAS used orange Ventile windproofs for years, maybe still do.

Arcteryx were advertising that they 'invented' the concept of softshells but I guess they mean this in a modern popular (ie. American) sense. Cloudveil do the same. Even so, Buffalo was well before them. The first jackets to really popularise 'modern' softshells were either the Cloudveil Serendipity or possibly the Marmot Driclime top, though the latter was not considered a shell in the normal sense, though lots used it as such. Either way, it was not Patagonia - much as I love their stuff. Schoeller pants have been around for ages in Europe.

Of course, the term 'softshell' actually encompasses a few quite different types of garment or integrated system, so you are not just comparing apples with apples when you compare Ventile with Buffalo with Schoeller, for example.

D
 TobyA 29 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia: It was when Patagonia launched the Infurno jacket - maybe five years ago? They talked about "climbers used to the Scottish mountains weather" or something and I don't think they mentioned Buffalo by name.
epik 29 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia: Cant find that comment in any of my patagonia catalogues but i think you may find that ArcTeryx were the first people to use the term softshell but it was just a way of seperating out there catalogue.

They had a HardShell chapter in their catalogue including Gore products and then the next chapter was SoftShells which basically included anything non-gore which included standard fleeces but most took it to be refering to their Powershield jacket although polartec (until recently) refused to call it softshell although seems everyone has got caught up in the softshell revolution so they now use the word as often as everyone else.

Although if your looking back then i think someone has already mentioned Ventile, Buffalo certainly gets some credit but then i guess if you've ever proofed your old cotton pull over then you may have invented softshell yourself!
In reply to captain paranoia:

Thanks to all for the replies. I think Toby is probably right about the Infurno - it rings a bell, and gives me something to search for.

I'm aware of most of the history of soft shell, just being very anal about the Patagonia reference...

Hamish is reputed to have come up with the Buffalo concept after studying the clothing of inhabitants of arctic regions.
 Damo 29 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia:

Just realised I did a hasty misreading of your OP. I do remember the Pata reference to Buffalo, if not by name, but I would have thought it was only about 5 years ago at the most. Have chucked all my old Pata catalogues.

However Pata's reference to pile/pertex does not signify the 'origin of the new wave of soft shell', just THEIR entry to it. Arcteryx and Cloudveil still get that one I reckon.

Though throughout the 90s Pata made a Pneumatic pullover (smock) that was not waterproof, but resistant, and windproof, very light, with a hood. A lot of American climbers used those over thermals or fleece before 'soft shell' became a term.

D
 TobyA 29 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia: Are you writing a history of gear catalogues? Despite an sad but enduring love of poring over the glossy action pictures in catalogues thinking "if I had that jacket I could climb an icefall just like that!", I agree that this would be a very trainspotterish thing to do.

Do people really keep old catalogues? I used to in my teenage years cuts the action pictures out of them and stick them up around my bedroom - dreaming of getting to go to exotic places like Indian Creek, Arapiles, Chamonix and errr... Fort William and be a 'real' climber, but I did grow out of it when I actually got to go to some of these places.
 First Ascent 29 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia: Think it was the winter catalogue 2002 or 2003on the `Why Soft shell`
I`m sad and obsessive enough to have the catalogue at home so I`ll let you know later if you dont find out before
Lindsay
 First Ascent 29 Sep 2004
In reply to First Ascent: And the answer is....Fall/Winter catalogue 1999 page22 Talking about the Infurno jkt. If you really need a copy email me. (email address should probably be sadanorak.com)
In reply to TobyA:

> Do people really keep old catalogues?

<hangs head in anorak-clad shame>

I'm afraid so. I was poring over 1992 Cotswold catalogues last night, looking for their introduction of Buffalo Teclite and Marmot Dri-Clime. I have an interest in clothing design, and it's useful to see how things have changed.

It's also amusing to see the barking colour schemes that were around in early-mid 90's. Troll pants and Edelrid Rock Skin tights. Bonkers.

I don't actually have that many manufacturers' catalogue, though...

In reply to First Ascent:

I am not worthy. All hail the Catalogue God.

I shall have a search with more detail. Ta.
jambo-uk 29 Sep 2004
In reply to Damo:

www.howies.co.uk

still make ventile jacket and trousers.
 Mark Stevenson 29 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia:
> It's also amusing to see the barking colour schemes that were around in early-mid 90's. Troll pants and Edelrid Rock Skin tights. Bonkers.

I'll have you know, I think my troll pants are ace. I've even had one person on here agree!
 sutty 29 Sep 2004
In reply to Mark Stevenson:

Well they are ok, but I took the precaution of wearing sunglasses to look at them.
 TobyA 30 Sep 2004
In reply to captain paranoia: I picked up this years summer and winter Patagonia catalogues in a shop in Brussels this year. Patagonia and BD have always been my faves as they have the best pictures. BD used to be brilliant because they would have one page picture with no text, and then the gear and text on the opposite page. The decoration of my student flat bedroom was basically all the pictures from the 1993 BD catalogue.

Anyway - I have a new challenge with these current Patagonia catalogues because they are in french! I did note though that soft shell is in french "soft shell" rather than "le shell soft" or a literal translation of shell and soft.
 TobyA 30 Sep 2004
In reply to First Ascent:
> (email address should probably be sadanorak.com)

Sir - you are indeed this weeks winner of the Sad Anorak award! Be proud and hold your head high.



The page ref leads me to suspect that you might be an academic?


New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...