This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Dave Pickford has climbed a significant route at pentire Head on the North Devon Coast. Wall of Spirits, E8 6b, takes the impressive blank wall left of the top pitch of Leviathan.
More info - http://www.javu.co.uk/Climbing/News/#WallofSpirits
UKC News - http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
More info - http://www.javu.co.uk/Climbing/News/#WallofSpirits
UKC News - http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
In reply to Alan James - UKC:Back to the Future. Thank goodness the once berated protection of the fifties and sixties has returned once again to the climbing scene.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Disappointing to see pegs being placed on this route, especially by Dave. Will these pegs be replaced by bolts when they wear out (as some would argue the case for on Eroica)? Or will someone make a better ascent without the pegs (as is almost the case on Erocia now)?
Despite that, good effort and heartening to see routes like this being done.
Mike
Disappointing to see pegs being placed on this route, especially by Dave. Will these pegs be replaced by bolts when they wear out (as some would argue the case for on Eroica)? Or will someone make a better ascent without the pegs (as is almost the case on Erocia now)?
Despite that, good effort and heartening to see routes like this being done.
Mike
In reply to Mike Raine:
People are arguing for bolts on Pentire? On Eroica? And I thought the Yorkhire retrobolting thing might be a problem - nothing compared to this suggestion. The pegs on Eroica were knackered years ago - loads of ascets though. I put a Rock 1 behind the remains of one. I'll settle for E3 if neccessary.
People are arguing for bolts on Pentire? On Eroica? And I thought the Yorkhire retrobolting thing might be a problem - nothing compared to this suggestion. The pegs on Eroica were knackered years ago - loads of ascets though. I put a Rock 1 behind the remains of one. I'll settle for E3 if neccessary.
In reply to Mike Raine:
Disappointing because he put some pegs in, or disappointing because he didn't use bolts? I can't believe you are seriously suggesting the latter.
Disappointing because he put some pegs in, or disappointing because he didn't use bolts? I can't believe you are seriously suggesting the latter.
In reply to Dave Garnett: i think he meant the first.. but whats more disappointing is that everyone thinks pentire head is in devon...
Current photo
Pylon King on the superb first pitch of "Eroica" (the second is Sh*t)
© The Pylon King, Jul 2004
Presumably he doesn't mean it
Pylon King on the superb first pitch of "Eroica" (the second is Sh*t)
© The Pylon King, Jul 2004
Presumably he doesn't mean it
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Before dismissing Mike raine's comments wholeheartedly, the issue of fixed protection is a serious one, particularly on sea cliffs. I have replaced pegs on many climbs including two at Pentire, and although I tried to use stainless pegs there are problems:
1. Extremely limited range and availability of stainless pegs means only certain pegs can be replaced
2. Its sometimes not possible to remove the old peg cleanly leaving a blocked placement.
Consequently, although Dave Pickford's route is a superb personal effort, it may remain just that. Most people like their new routes to be enjoyed by others, but routes of this nature seldom receive ascents due to the difficulty of maintaining the quality of the protection.
I don't want to see bolts all over Pentire, but I wish some alltrustic company (or BMC?) would look into providing a full range of stainless steel pegs. I tried a few years ago with little success, but I did get a specification from a specialist steel company.
Before dismissing Mike raine's comments wholeheartedly, the issue of fixed protection is a serious one, particularly on sea cliffs. I have replaced pegs on many climbs including two at Pentire, and although I tried to use stainless pegs there are problems:
1. Extremely limited range and availability of stainless pegs means only certain pegs can be replaced
2. Its sometimes not possible to remove the old peg cleanly leaving a blocked placement.
Consequently, although Dave Pickford's route is a superb personal effort, it may remain just that. Most people like their new routes to be enjoyed by others, but routes of this nature seldom receive ascents due to the difficulty of maintaining the quality of the protection.
I don't want to see bolts all over Pentire, but I wish some alltrustic company (or BMC?) would look into providing a full range of stainless steel pegs. I tried a few years ago with little success, but I did get a specification from a specialist steel company.
In reply to Graham Hoey:
Bloody hell Graham, I really hope you are not using stainless steel pegs!! If so then you might want to add
3. Stainless steel pegs are likely to break catastrophically without warning even when they look pretty solid.
Non-stainless may corrode slowly and turn into rust balls and be unreplace-able but at least they don't lull you into a false sense of security and then snap just when you need them most and when only a few years old.
Alan
> Before dismissing Mike raine's comments wholeheartedly, the issue of fixed protection is a serious one, particularly on sea cliffs. I have replaced pegs on many climbs including two at Pentire, and although I tried to use stainless pegs there are problems:
> 1. Extremely limited range and availability of stainless pegs means only certain pegs can be replaced
> 1. Extremely limited range and availability of stainless pegs means only certain pegs can be replaced
Bloody hell Graham, I really hope you are not using stainless steel pegs!! If so then you might want to add
3. Stainless steel pegs are likely to break catastrophically without warning even when they look pretty solid.
Non-stainless may corrode slowly and turn into rust balls and be unreplace-able but at least they don't lull you into a false sense of security and then snap just when you need them most and when only a few years old.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
So the obvious solution is not to use fixed gear on sea cliffs. Either the routes will be bolder, left for future generations or left as gaps. All pegs already on sea cliffs should be left to RIP (rust in peace).
Or alternatively removed after the ascent, I doubt there will be much repetative placement changing the nature of the route as happened at Millstone.
So the obvious solution is not to use fixed gear on sea cliffs. Either the routes will be bolder, left for future generations or left as gaps. All pegs already on sea cliffs should be left to RIP (rust in peace).
Or alternatively removed after the ascent, I doubt there will be much repetative placement changing the nature of the route as happened at Millstone.
In reply to Mike Raine:
Perhaps a similar ethic towards preserving climbing things as you find then as opposed to making them fit your bill would've worked in the Mendips too? Those cleaning scars of yours are quite visible in Fairy Caves, and on the whole really weren't necessary!
Perhaps a similar ethic towards preserving climbing things as you find then as opposed to making them fit your bill would've worked in the Mendips too? Those cleaning scars of yours are quite visible in Fairy Caves, and on the whole really weren't necessary!
In reply to Mike Raine: That seems to be the approach Martin Crocker is going for; remove them afterwards.
In reply to John Davis:
Thanks mate!
1. They aren't all mine.
2. Ever climbed new routes on unstabled quarried rock?
3. No one placed fixed gear at FCQ.
4. I've done several new routes on sight up to to E4.
5. The Mutant was climbed ground up over four seperate occasions (and gues what it's not been repeated yet!)
6. I think the cleaning done at FCQ is wholy reasonable.
7. What this go to do with fixed gear on sea cliffs?
8. THanks for having a name!
Thanks mate!
1. They aren't all mine.
2. Ever climbed new routes on unstabled quarried rock?
3. No one placed fixed gear at FCQ.
4. I've done several new routes on sight up to to E4.
5. The Mutant was climbed ground up over four seperate occasions (and gues what it's not been repeated yet!)
6. I think the cleaning done at FCQ is wholy reasonable.
7. What this go to do with fixed gear on sea cliffs?
8. THanks for having a name!
In reply to Yorkspud:
Yes i certainly do mean it!
Crappy aiding/desperate bouldery move with very dodgey peg and really nasty slippery and strenuous laybacking - no thanks!
The first pitch is superb though
When the pegs go then surely Eroica is gonna be E4?
Yes i certainly do mean it!
Crappy aiding/desperate bouldery move with very dodgey peg and really nasty slippery and strenuous laybacking - no thanks!
The first pitch is superb though
When the pegs go then surely Eroica is gonna be E4?
In reply to The Pylon King:
Sorry - thpught the second pitch was great though the first was very good! Very 'short' move - backed peg up with a wire of sorts, then puffed up the corner - a great route
Sorry - thpught the second pitch was great though the first was very good! Very 'short' move - backed peg up with a wire of sorts, then puffed up the corner - a great route
In reply to Mike Raine: I agree keep the fixed gear to a minimum on sea cliffs, although I've clipped enough bits of tat in my time and been welcome of them.
The BMC seem to be sending mixed messages when you get cliffs like the promenade at swanage which were all trad but have now become predominately sports crags on a sea cliff !!
The BMC seem to be sending mixed messages when you get cliffs like the promenade at swanage which were all trad but have now become predominately sports crags on a sea cliff !!
In reply to Mark Lloyd: And what's worse (for me) is I chaired the meeting that decided that!
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Eroica is right at E3 6a. I did it about a month ago, the pegs have mostly gone, there is one which i clipped as gear and my mate used as aid, but this will not be there much longer. After the crux, you get 2 really poor pegs (both about 2mm or less!) which i tied off to one another. The final corner is pretty solid old school 5b (or 5c?)
the belay and the whole situation youre in makes it really intimidating up there, so its probably quite high in the grade. (but no where near as hard as Kafoozalem at bosigran-this has got to be E4- which we did the day before!)
the day we were there someone with blond hair (presumably Dave p) was cleaning the wall right of the eroica groove and we wondered what he was up to- now all has been revealed!!
Dave
Eroica is right at E3 6a. I did it about a month ago, the pegs have mostly gone, there is one which i clipped as gear and my mate used as aid, but this will not be there much longer. After the crux, you get 2 really poor pegs (both about 2mm or less!) which i tied off to one another. The final corner is pretty solid old school 5b (or 5c?)
the belay and the whole situation youre in makes it really intimidating up there, so its probably quite high in the grade. (but no where near as hard as Kafoozalem at bosigran-this has got to be E4- which we did the day before!)
the day we were there someone with blond hair (presumably Dave p) was cleaning the wall right of the eroica groove and we wondered what he was up to- now all has been revealed!!
Dave
In reply to DaveJWestlake:
When I did it n years ago there was one dodgy belay peg on the first stance and one very dodgy peg at shoulder height, which I didn't dare fall on. I pulled on this to reach to put a wire in above then did it free (if not clean!). This was pretty standard then and seemed OK at technical but safe top-end E1. The top corner used to be thought pretty straightforward 5a, if slightly steep to start.
Overall it used to be the best E1 in the world, but may well have become polished and a few holds might have come off.
When I did it n years ago there was one dodgy belay peg on the first stance and one very dodgy peg at shoulder height, which I didn't dare fall on. I pulled on this to reach to put a wire in above then did it free (if not clean!). This was pretty standard then and seemed OK at technical but safe top-end E1. The top corner used to be thought pretty straightforward 5a, if slightly steep to start.
Overall it used to be the best E1 in the world, but may well have become polished and a few holds might have come off.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
I can't remember more than 1 peg either, apart from the belay. At this rate it'll be E4 soon - plenty of retro points!
I can't remember more than 1 peg either, apart from the belay. At this rate it'll be E4 soon - plenty of retro points!
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
there were about 3 0r 4 'stumps' of pegs/rust marks left by the crux, and the one that i clipped for gear (which was bent and very rusty) was one move above the ledge to clip it at a stretch for me. I also got a small wire in at waist level.
I dont think its E1!!! and the moves were much harder than 5a!!
one thing that i did find interesting was that a friend told me he knew someone who thought the crux of eroica was technically harder than the moves on darkinbad! Any views on this (i dont know, ive not done darkinbad...yet!)
Dave
there were about 3 0r 4 'stumps' of pegs/rust marks left by the crux, and the one that i clipped for gear (which was bent and very rusty) was one move above the ledge to clip it at a stretch for me. I also got a small wire in at waist level.
I dont think its E1!!! and the moves were much harder than 5a!!
one thing that i did find interesting was that a friend told me he knew someone who thought the crux of eroica was technically harder than the moves on darkinbad! Any views on this (i dont know, ive not done darkinbad...yet!)
Dave
In reply to DaveJWestlake:
I lead them both on the same day a few years ago, and I would be inclined to agree with your friend's acquaintance.
Then again, perhaps I am your friend's acquaintance
I lead them both on the same day a few years ago, and I would be inclined to agree with your friend's acquaintance.
Then again, perhaps I am your friend's acquaintance
In reply to DaveJWestlake:
The moves may be of similar difficulty but Darkinbad is a miles bigger lead. There is really no comparison between the two routes .....
... and then you have to climb Darkinbad pitch 2!
> one thing that i did find interesting was that a friend told me he knew someone who thought the crux of eroica was technically harder than the moves on darkinbad! Any views on this (i dont know, ive not done darkinbad...yet!)
The moves may be of similar difficulty but Darkinbad is a miles bigger lead. There is really no comparison between the two routes .....
... and then you have to climb Darkinbad pitch 2!
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
It's not as hard as Darkinbad! Darkinbad is a big lead it probably has three 6a moves on it, a bold 5b/c start and the middle crux is a above the gear. I'd give Eroica E3 5c curently.
It's not as hard as Darkinbad! Darkinbad is a big lead it probably has three 6a moves on it, a bold 5b/c start and the middle crux is a above the gear. I'd give Eroica E3 5c curently.
In reply to Mark Lloyd:
The majority of routes at The Promenade were originally climbed as sport routes with a mixture of fixed gear, such as bolts, pegs, thread and jammed wires. This old fixed gear had been become unusable with the passage of time.
In recent years, these routes have been reequiped with marine grade staples or expansion bolts to preserve their sport climbing status.
There are a number of trad routes at The Promenade which were climbed as trad routes and will remain as trad routes. There is no intention to retrobolt any of these routes.
Richard White
The majority of routes at The Promenade were originally climbed as sport routes with a mixture of fixed gear, such as bolts, pegs, thread and jammed wires. This old fixed gear had been become unusable with the passage of time.
In recent years, these routes have been reequiped with marine grade staples or expansion bolts to preserve their sport climbing status.
There are a number of trad routes at The Promenade which were climbed as trad routes and will remain as trad routes. There is no intention to retrobolt any of these routes.
Richard White
In reply to DaveJWestlake:
I'd agree with your friend's acquaintance too. I did eroica then darkinbad and black magic one easter. the latter two routes were wonderful and memorable as cruises. i fell off the crux of eroica and passed it with a swift tug on a peg-only reason was the move was flippin' hard, much harder than anything on the other two routes. all fantastic experiences.
Matt
I'd agree with your friend's acquaintance too. I did eroica then darkinbad and black magic one easter. the latter two routes were wonderful and memorable as cruises. i fell off the crux of eroica and passed it with a swift tug on a peg-only reason was the move was flippin' hard, much harder than anything on the other two routes. all fantastic experiences.
Matt
In reply to Anonymous:
)
Hardly - one 6a move straight off the stance just doesn't compare to leading either Darkinbad or Black Magic, which both have tricky cruxes towards the end of long, sustained pitches.
Don't think there is any doubt about that!
Neil
)
> ...and passed it with a swift tug on a peg-only reason was the move was flippin' hard, much harder than anything on the other two routes.
Hardly - one 6a move straight off the stance just doesn't compare to leading either Darkinbad or Black Magic, which both have tricky cruxes towards the end of long, sustained pitches.
> all fantastic experiences.
Don't think there is any doubt about that!
Neil
In reply to Neil Foster:
Well of course. But we are talking about a move, not a route.
On the one hand you have a technical, precarious move straight off the stance on a route which, perhaps subconsciously, you expect to find straightforward. On the other, you have some fingery cranking in the full flow of a route that has fired your imagination for a decade or more. The factors that make one move harder than another can be as much psychological as physical.
> Hardly - one 6a move straight off the stance just doesn't compare to leading either Darkinbad or Black Magic, which both have tricky cruxes towards the end of long, sustained pitches.
Well of course. But we are talking about a move, not a route.
On the one hand you have a technical, precarious move straight off the stance on a route which, perhaps subconsciously, you expect to find straightforward. On the other, you have some fingery cranking in the full flow of a route that has fired your imagination for a decade or more. The factors that make one move harder than another can be as much psychological as physical.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Loading Notifications...