/ From Across the Pond - New Article

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From Across The Pond is to be a regular feature of ukclimbing.com. Written by ex-pat Mick Ryan from Saratoga Springs in upstate New York, in each article Mick will give his account of things Stateside; a sort of Letter from America but with a climbing theme.

This month Mick delves into 'headpointing' and explains its latest incarnation known as 'boltpointing'. He also reviews a new climbing magazine called Urban Climber, which is aimed at the huge number of new wall-bred climbers that are coming into the sport in the US. Finally he uncovers one of the little-known secrets of Kansas - a fine bouldering area of "giant bowling balls".

Read more - http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=82
Fiend - on 09 Nov 2004
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

Out of interest did you sack Mick for his argumentative attitude on these forums?? Or not??
Kipper - on 09 Nov 2004
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

Very good. It can only improve when he gets his spelling and grammar sorted :-)
Fiend - on 09 Nov 2004
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

Interesting article though. Always good to see these issues explored. I like the photo of the mag advert.

However...

> Since the beginning the prevailing US ethic has been that almost anything goes as long as you climb from the ground-up, onsight. Pre-inspection and pre-practice of a potential or existing route is frowned upon (although it is often secretly practiced but not openly admitted).

Really?? Well not for bolt routes obviously, redpointing is as prominent as anywhere. And when I read Climbing, there seemed to be mentions of pre-practised trad routes, I remember an indepth article about practising Sphinx Crack, for example.
Alison Stockwell - on 09 Nov 2004
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

Thanks for broadening our world :-)

Can we have more about Lisa Rands please?
Neil@canaryclimbs on 09 Nov 2004 - host213-122-49-139.in-addr.btopenworld.com
In reply to Alan James - UKC:


From across the pond !!!!!!!!!!

Isnt that a qoute from Front range freaks when they asked johny dawes for his thoughts on american climbing ???????????????????????????????
Jus - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Neil@canaryclimbs:

Isn't 'across the pond' a commonly used phrase for 'the other side of the Atlantic?
tobyfk - on 10 Nov 2004
Anyone interested in US attitudes to headpointing / contrived risk in climbing should read the discussion here:
http://www.climbingboulder.com/rock/db/eldorado_canyon/wind_tower/the_lion.html
Fiend - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to tobyfk:

I tried but didn't get very far. Seems like plenty of ignorance there.
tobyfk - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

There are other reasons given as to why Brits have embraced headpointing including the fact that ..... the incestuous (close geographical) nature of British climbing breeds competition.

What Sonnie Trotter actually wrote is:

... Plus the scene is tight, so they [the Brits] have to burn each other off constantly to get the girls.

Lost a bit in translation there, Mick!
tobyfk - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Fiend:
> (In reply to tobyfk)
>
> I tried but didn't get very far.

Worth reading in full, if only for the first ascentionist's unbelievably calm and reasoned response to having his route slagged off for being too bold!
Fiend - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to tobyfk:

Oh okay, if you insist.
Fiend - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Fiend:

Argh I managed to get 1/2 way and couldn't take it any more.

I really don't understand what these people are talking about. They're decrying headpointing as "dangerous". WTF, do they think people should be making onsight first ascents of these routes?? Hello wake up, headpointing is a damn sight safer than onsighting the same routes, that's why people do it.

I give up.
Graham Taylor - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Fiend:

What sport do they think they are doing?
Knitting, presumably they would need blunt needles for fear of sticking themselves in the eye?
tony on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Graham Taylor:

Am I missing something, or are there people in that discussion arguing that some climbs are dangerous and that anyone doing dangerous things has got something wrong with them?
Graham Taylor - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to tony:
Thats the one.
Strangely that was exactly what i thought too.
Marc C - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Alison Stockwell: Yes, let's have 'more' of Lisa Rands...a calendar would be nice :)
Graham Taylor - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Marc C:
MMMmmmmm, i'll have one too
Michael Ryan - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Graham Taylor:

Far too long for the "From Across The Pond" feature, here is the full review of Urban Climber Magazine

http://www.boldering.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17355&st=0&p=375314&

"So what do we learn about Joe Kinder from this
profile?

Kinder tell us he has had lots of jobs, he's not a
trust-funder, he climbs bad on plastic, good on real
rock, he disses the hippy-yoga climbing lifestyle (Is
that a dig at Chris Sharma?), and the inhabitants of
bolder, Colorado (who doesn't?), and he's a graffiti
street artist.

Like many middle-class youths who were
brought up in affluent, homogenous urban neighborhoods he is searching for authenticity and "edge" hence he talks in black street-jive, listens to hip-hop, and mimics the body language of a rapper. In short he's stolen the steelo of the street, watched Shaft one too many times, and has morphed into a white negro or in street parlance, a fake nigga.

Like many climbers he's also an artist and the heroes of his chosen genre, street art, are no doubt street artists like NYC's Swoon, the UK's Banksy or even maybe the late Jean Michel Basquiat who famously was one of the first street artists to successfully transfer to gallery art, from the alternative to mainstream. Kinder has just moved from bolder, Co to New York City to immerse himself in the "street vibe", a career move which may bring him fame beyond climbing.

Does this sound familiar?

Hasn't the NYC climber Ivan Greene already
co-opted this street image and articulated an ambition
to move from a minor celebrity in the climbing world
to mainstream entertainment celebrity? Even some of
Tim Kemple's images of Kinder that illustrate this
profile mimic Greene's now well-worn promo shots:
Kinder striking a pose, Kinder screaming, Kinder
mimicking a real celebrity as he poses with a hot
chick and a fast car.

If you saw Rock and Ice's recent profile of
Greene you'll already be familiar with these
Maxim-type shots, especially the classic of Greene
surrounded by a bevy of scantily-clad models.

More at:

http://www.boldering.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17355&st=0&p=375314&
tobyfk - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Mick Ryan:

I'm fairly sure I met Joe Kinder (with Tim Kemple?) at Siurana last Christmas. Entertaining bloke, and tactfully enthusiastic when he wandered up my 7a+ project as a warm-up ...
Jenn on 10 Nov 2004
Err - isn't this article very like the one in the Dec 2004 Rock and Ice by Matt Samet? Even the same quotes are used.

Michael Ryan - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Jenn:
> Err - isn't this article very like the one in the Dec 2004 Rock and Ice by Matt Samet? Even the same quotes are used.

Some of the ascents were reported at climbing.com and on the internet. Yes some quotes were used from Matt's article in R+I (two I think) and credited. I put an UK slant on the article and got quotes from Kevin T, Dave P and Lisa R direct. I don't think I sent any of my photos anywhere.

The ethics issue of R+I is one of their best yet. Worth getting. Have the UK mags done a similar thing here?

I'm looking at trends rather than doing just pure USA news stuff. Along with headpointing, boltpointing, and drypointing, I'll be looking at other trends and episodes happening in the US in the future, with hopefully some relevence to UK climbers.

Rock City is great by the way. Well worth a stop-off.

As I said earlier, I've done a full review of Urban Climber Mag at boldering.com.....link above.

cheers,

Mick



Jenn on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Mick Ryan:

Yes, I do have the ethics issue of R&I and I noticed the same quotes being used in your artice. I do have to admit to only having a glance at it though :-o. I'll have to give it a propper go.

BTW - what's 'drypointing'?
Michael Ryan - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Jenn:

sorry dry tooling.........it's when.......<<<<.insert explanation here>>>>>>>............someone uses metal picks and spikes, and grappling irons on the grips instead of their fingers and toes......
Jenn on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Mick Ryan:

OK - I got the dry tooling bit - but didn't understand the 'pointing' bit.
Michael Ryan - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Jenn:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan)
>
> OK - I got the dry tooling bit - but didn't understand the 'pointing' bit.

They use "points".

Just like Tubbs in TLOG!

Dry tooling is using ice climbing tools to climb partially-iced and non-iced rock.

The fellows in question in the Black Canyon used this technique mid-summer to climb a pitch of rock that they could't climbing using their bare hands and rubber-shod feet. They put special metal adapters on the points of their ice axes to hook the natural holds that aided their elevation up this sheer rock face.

Not sure where I got dry-pointing from, prolly a technique of filling cracks in with dry cement.

Mick
tobyfk - on 10 Nov 2004
In reply to Mick Ryan:
> (In reply to Jenn)
> [...]
>
> Some of the ascents were reported at climbing.com and on the internet. Yes some quotes were used from blah blah. I put an UK slant on the article and got quotes from blah.

No need to be defensive, Mick, summarising Rock and Ice for the British public is a valuable service! ;-)
MikeTS - on 11 Nov 2004
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Re: "boltpointing". In America do all routes later lead without using the bolts get the bolts chopped?
Michael Ryan - on 11 Nov 2004
In reply to MikeTS:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC)
> Re: "boltpointing". In America do all routes later lead without using the bolts get the bolts chopped?

Perhaps you misread it. The bolt routes that have been climbed without clipping the bolts (some have natural gear, some don't) still retain their bolts.

At leasts in these examples.

Mick

MikeTS - on 11 Nov 2004
In reply to Mick Ryan:
Thanks Mick. Actually it was an "ethical" question: according to one interpretation of the rules of climbing you should not add more fixed pro & aid after the FA. So, as a corollary, if a climb is boltpointed (or then freed - e.g The Nose) then the bolts should be removed. So I was wondering whether this rule is differently applied on both side of the pond.

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