UKC

Hi all
Has anyone out there any info on personal locator beacons (the satellite uplink ones that say 'come and get me, i don't want to play anymore'!)
I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of the cheapest place to get them and which of the various freequencies are most suitable (probably for use in australasia and north america). i'm looking for a personal use one, not a big thing to be kept in a boat of van.
many thanks
james e

In reply to James Edwards: eprb, pronounced eepurb, thats about all i know, and they work, about 15x15x10 cm in size, go to specialist suppliers of expeditions, try expedition kit direct in london, expensive, and a big fine if you set it off without really meaning too.

If you are going to NZ the Dept of Conservation loan them to you for the more remote walks, for a small fee, $25 for a week or something. They might do something similar in Australia...

They are sold/used in the UK for marine purposes only but are ok for land use further afield

In reply to James Edwards:

Try us... www.sartech.com

By the description of use, You want a PLB. Frequency wise, 121.5MHz is being phased out, and eventually switched off in 2009 (basically, if you have a 121.5MHz beacon, you will be ignored until some supplementary distress evidence is picked up... too many pizza ovens set off the system); so 406MHz is now the ONLY option.

By way of PLBs you have the McMurdo Fastfind, the ACR Aquafix (newly type approved), or the Kannad 406m. Both the Fastfind, and the Aquafix have versions with internal GPS (it finds its own position, and transmits it, rather than waiting for the low earth orbit sats to get a doppler position) for a good bit more money... but it's worth it if you are going to be in places where rescue forces can track you by lat&long (rather than carrying special direction finding equipment to home in on you; only carried by dedicated SAR and military forces).

As a climber, i take a fastfind plus, because it is the smallest, lightest, and (due to GPS) the fastest alerting.

any other questions, just ask

dave



As a climber, i opt for a Fastfind plus with

In reply to alfa->bus:

oops, confused bit of random text at the end there

In reply to JB:

By the letter of the approvals, you are correct; but in practise, more and more people are using them inland. The point to remember is that in an emergency situation you are entitled to use any and all means of calling for help; this includes the use of all (normally) restricted frequency ranges.

dave

In reply to James Edwards:

just noticed that your location says NZ. I will ask around and find you a reputable supplier over there.

dave

In reply to alfa->bus:

OK, the approvals for PLBs differ around the world, so its probably best if you talk to a specialist for your area. The man for you to talk to is Lloyd Klee at Safety at Sea Australasia. Email: lklee@safetyatsea.co.nz Phone: +64.9.3099111

Tell him you were given his address by Sartech Engineering in the UK.

Hope that is the sort of info you were after,
Dave

In reply to gear boy:

www.smltechnologies.com/newsite/wristw*tch.html

Here's a (hefty) wrist watch epurb. I think it may go off if it goes below x metres deep. Aimed at marine and offshore oil safety.

In reply to Swig:

The above web address should end in the word 'wrist watch' but without any spaces.

I think the asterisk is they because it found the word t..w..a..t.

For f**ks sake.

In reply to Swig:

That sort of wristw*tch PLB is more of a man overboard beacon. Once the satellites stop listening for 121.5 they will only be listened for locally (which in effect is what happens now, since the rescue forces ignore them anyway).

I cannot stress the point enough, DO NOT BUY 121.5MHz beacons; they are neither use nor ornament for people who are in genuine distress either at sea, or in the mountains. If you have a 121.5MHz beacon, you need to seriously consider upgrading it!

dave

In reply to alfa->bus:

Oh yep, have read the link now. Don't worry I haven't actually got one.

The company that makes them was a customer and I remembered them talking about a watch eprb (they might well have upgraded the watch to the new frequency by now). Or maybe the oil rig safety systems monitor 121.5MHz locally?

In reply to Swig:

Oil rigs do monitor 121.5 as a local MOB system, as do lots commercial vessels, and even some yachts; but its not a viable alerting system unless people are aware of your existance and the likelihood that you will fall in the water

oh, and its EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon)

dave :oP

In reply to James Edwards:
Have we had a wee exciting moment then young James ? I'd have thought you'd be able to get something in either Christchurch or Auckland, there's quite a few people carrying them around down here now.

Al

In reply to Al Walker and all the above,
No exciting moment i'm pleased to say Al.
We did the new direct route on the s.f. aspiring, it wasnt as icy as the previous time id been on it, but a bit of scottish technique and my usual quota of profanity made up for the lack of ice on the crux pitches.
I'm wanting to try quite 'out there' routes in the winter as you know and wanting to get old and stay bold. Tanya uses PLB's with her work and they seem pretty good. They do seem quite expensive though. Oh if only i was as good looking as Ellan McCarther i'm sure that they would give me a cheap one!
Have you ever walked up the valley that leads up to the south face of Mt Suter (2097m) (just south of Monkey Creek) Al? I don't think that this face has been ascended and on the map it looks quite tasty and without too much av potential. There seems to be a path on the map up the valley. I'll be keen to do a recce this summer.

Dave, thanks for the info i'll look into it. If i'm going to make the investment the integral gps type does seem to be the way to go.

James e

In reply to James Edwards:

Dave - what sort of accuracy do you get on EPIRBs in the UK?

In reply to JB:

Thats a fairly complicated question. To answer it, i need to point out first that there are two types of satellite in the COSPAS-SARSAT (the organisation that deals with this type of distress beacon) constellation. GEOSARs (Geostationary satellites; There are 4 of these sitting over the equator, each can see a third of the earth, with reasonable overlaps between them. LEOSARs (Low Earth Orbiting Satellites), also known as Polar orbiting satellites; there are 4 of these constantly circling the earth from pole to pole, about 1000km up.

When a 406MHz beacon transmits, its signal is picked within seconds by a GEOSAR and relayed to a base station. If you have a GPS beacon, then at this time, the rescue forces know where you are. If you have registered your beacon with the relavent agency (in the UK, the MCA EPIRB Registry) then they will know who you are, and have contact details for your next of kin. If you don't have a GPS EPIRB, then they know who you are, but only know your position to within a third of the globe (the GEOSARs cannot track position).

OK, lets assume you don't have a GPS EPIRB. Your signal has been picked up by the GEOSAR, and they will be phoning your friends to find out where you are (sometimes this is enough to get you out of trouble, or find that you are down the pub, and it has gone off in your bedroom). If they cant ascertain where you are, they must wait for a position fix to be calculated by the LEOSARs. As a LEOSAR goes overhead, it is moving, so it listens to the apparent shift in the frequency of the transmitted signal. Using doppler calculations, coupled with the fact that it knows where it is very precisely, it can work out your position to within a couple of miles. There is an anomoly with the way that this calculation works though, which means that it will get your position, and a mirror image position (your position exactly the same position on the opposite side of its track), and it can't tell which one you are. So you need to wait for another satellite pass to get another fix, and clear up the confusion.

By the nature of a polar orbit, LEOSARs give the best (most frequent) coverage over the two poles, and the worst coverage over the equator. In the UK, with the current constellation of 4 sats, you can expect to be passed by a LEOSAR once an hour.

So, the answer to the question is: In the UK, you can expect an accuracy of within a 3 Nautical Miles within an average of 90 minutes. If you have a GPS EPIRB (or GPS PLB) then that changes to approximately 150m in seconds.

i hope you didnt all fall asleep
Dave

In reply to alfa->bus:
Quite interesting actually!
You should see what else I'm doing just now though ;->

In reply to James Edwards:
James. I'm off over to Fiordland again this weekend with Karenne and Cameron, we'll take a wee trochle up on Saturday and check it out. I'll e-mail you on Monday to let you know.
Nice one with the Aspiring route, you'll have peed off a few of the locals no doubt. But does this profanity mean I've got to dig up all my old salty sea-dog language again?

Be in touch soon.

Al

Thread inspired by this story perhaps?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=10008794

When I was in NZ, I do remember a small item at the end of the National Radio news one Saturday afternoon. Something like:

"Police in Greymouth are asking for a driver heading north from Fox Glacier on State Highway 6 to please switch off their Personal Locator Beacon"

Bri.

In reply to James Edwards:

Wouldn't you be better off with an Iridium type phone so you can actually talk to someone, depending on the level of emergency? You can hire them if you don't want to buy (I've seen them 2nd hand on ebay for £600).

In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
i looked into those, but the line rental was quite expensive (even the pre-pay, pay as you talk ones). the thing with a plb is the running costs are negligable.

In reply to James Edwards: greetings stranger- is the manic still with you?

In reply to vscott:
no he's in the cham valley as far as im aware. i havent heard anything from them so i'm assuming that things are either going very well, or very badly.
james e