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Is there a recognised method of placing ice-screws? Or does everyone do it differently?
I just seem to get into a right mess and end up having to take both my hands out of my leashes so I can get them in without dropping them. This is just about okay on a grade III but I can't see my grade going any higher if I don't get it sorted.
Any ideas or tips would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
I just seem to get into a right mess and end up having to take both my hands out of my leashes so I can get them in without dropping them. This is just about okay on a grade III but I can't see my grade going any higher if I don't get it sorted.
Any ideas or tips would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
In reply to NickK:
1) clear crud off surface of ice
2) make a small hole in the ice with pick
3) put screw in.
Works for me.
1) clear crud off surface of ice
2) make a small hole in the ice with pick
3) put screw in.
Works for me.
In reply to NickK:
1. place left hand tool in good placement that you can hang off.
2. loosen wrist closure on right tool.
3. place right tool.
4. remove hand from right tool leash.
5. clip quickdraw into right tool leash.
6. clip rope into quickdraw.
7. pick up screw and insert into ice at 90 degrees to the ice (screws are slightly stronger place pointing very slightly downwards in good ice, believe it or not, but inserting at 90 degrees should be fine, esp if the ice is not ideal).
8. transfer clipped quickdraw from axe leash to inserted ice screw.
9. put right hand back in leash.
10. climb on.
1. place left hand tool in good placement that you can hang off.
2. loosen wrist closure on right tool.
3. place right tool.
4. remove hand from right tool leash.
5. clip quickdraw into right tool leash.
6. clip rope into quickdraw.
7. pick up screw and insert into ice at 90 degrees to the ice (screws are slightly stronger place pointing very slightly downwards in good ice, believe it or not, but inserting at 90 degrees should be fine, esp if the ice is not ideal).
8. transfer clipped quickdraw from axe leash to inserted ice screw.
9. put right hand back in leash.
10. climb on.
In reply to Lightweight:
I like the quickdraw idea. Never thought of that. That would take some of the urgency out of getting the screw in which will probably make me less likely to rush and drop the thing.
Thanks.
I like the quickdraw idea. Never thought of that. That would take some of the urgency out of getting the screw in which will probably make me less likely to rush and drop the thing.
Thanks.
In reply to NickK:
I use a draw string clipped to a little krab. Useful for taking screws out without dropping them (or getting too pumped).
I use a draw string clipped to a little krab. Useful for taking screws out without dropping them (or getting too pumped).
In reply to NickK: Like this: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=22919
More usefully: make sure you have sharp good screws. Legs shoulder width apart, make use of any ice features that make place easier - ie. some kind of foot hold, or ledge where you could at least get one foot sideways. The tool you are going to hang off needs to be a good solid placement, don't accept any 'that's probably OK' placements - if it pops you're f**ked as you probably wont be able to grab your other tool before loosing balance and falling.
Actually putting the screw in: no higher than chest height - waist height is optimal although it does mean that the screw is alarming quickly below your feet! The crux is the first couple of turns - getting it to bite without it falling out. I dropped a screw on saturday for exactly this reason - I had twisted as far as my wrist would go and thought it had bitten so took my hand off to do the next turn and it fell out due to the first cm of ice not being very firm. You need to push as well as turn. Concentrate hard at this point as it really is the crux of the whole process.
Once you have screw in a couple of centimetres the hard bit is done. Flip the little handle if you have expresses or 360s and spin like mad. Feel the resistance as this gives you an idea of how reliable that screw will be - ie. if it goes through air pockets or not. If it touches rock you'll know it (stop turning!!!!), feels rock 'springy' compared to a layer of harder ice.
Clip in your screamer/QD, clip the rope to that and then breath deep beautiful breathes of survival. Shake your hand to unpump and warm up whilst it is out of the leash.
Carry on climbing.
Simple eh?
More usefully: make sure you have sharp good screws. Legs shoulder width apart, make use of any ice features that make place easier - ie. some kind of foot hold, or ledge where you could at least get one foot sideways. The tool you are going to hang off needs to be a good solid placement, don't accept any 'that's probably OK' placements - if it pops you're f**ked as you probably wont be able to grab your other tool before loosing balance and falling.
Actually putting the screw in: no higher than chest height - waist height is optimal although it does mean that the screw is alarming quickly below your feet! The crux is the first couple of turns - getting it to bite without it falling out. I dropped a screw on saturday for exactly this reason - I had twisted as far as my wrist would go and thought it had bitten so took my hand off to do the next turn and it fell out due to the first cm of ice not being very firm. You need to push as well as turn. Concentrate hard at this point as it really is the crux of the whole process.
Once you have screw in a couple of centimetres the hard bit is done. Flip the little handle if you have expresses or 360s and spin like mad. Feel the resistance as this gives you an idea of how reliable that screw will be - ie. if it goes through air pockets or not. If it touches rock you'll know it (stop turning!!!!), feels rock 'springy' compared to a layer of harder ice.
Clip in your screamer/QD, clip the rope to that and then breath deep beautiful breathes of survival. Shake your hand to unpump and warm up whilst it is out of the leash.
Carry on climbing.
Simple eh?
In reply to thorpedo:
Apologies if I'm being a bit dim, but how does this work? Do you clip the little krab to the screw while you place it?
Apologies if I'm being a bit dim, but how does this work? Do you clip the little krab to the screw while you place it?
In reply to Lightweight:
That would be cheating....
> 5. clip quickdraw into right tool leash.
> 6. clip rope into quickdraw.
> 6. clip rope into quickdraw.
That would be cheating....
In reply to JonC: As long as you don't weight the rope its not cheating at all, just sensible.
In reply to TobyA:
weighting the rope would make it aid climbing, but even unweighted it's still cheating
weighting the rope would make it aid climbing, but even unweighted it's still cheating
In reply to JonC:
If you're really worried about it, stick a clove hitch in the rope when you clip the quickdraw. This means your second can't feel your weight on the rope and can't tell that you're cheating
If you're really worried about it, stick a clove hitch in the rope when you clip the quickdraw. This means your second can't feel your weight on the rope and can't tell that you're cheating
In reply to JonC: If you are are being half-serious, what possible argument is there for it being cheating?
In reply to NickK:
Apart from a lot of good advice you have already had,
Nobody has yet mentioned a crucial piece of info to placing an ice screw. That is to look for a a recess or concave feature in the ice surface. Not so recessed that you can't screw in the screw fully (e.g. the hanger arm getting obstructed). This will help you start off the screw as well as chipping a slight hole to start it off. You will find it much easier to do this one handed and it will also be a stronger placement.
Conversely, avoid placing the ice screw on bulges or convex areas of ice. This is much weaker and usually has more air content, as well as more likely to dinner plate.
Apart from a lot of good advice you have already had,
Nobody has yet mentioned a crucial piece of info to placing an ice screw. That is to look for a a recess or concave feature in the ice surface. Not so recessed that you can't screw in the screw fully (e.g. the hanger arm getting obstructed). This will help you start off the screw as well as chipping a slight hole to start it off. You will find it much easier to do this one handed and it will also be a stronger placement.
Conversely, avoid placing the ice screw on bulges or convex areas of ice. This is much weaker and usually has more air content, as well as more likely to dinner plate.
In reply to NickK: length of elastic, with crab at one end- other attached to harness, taking out screw- as it gets to last few turns clip in biner, stops you dropping screw if you fumble- elastic twists easily. Worthwhile if your worried about dropping screw due to numb hands etc, but most of the time more faff than it's worth.
In reply to JonC:
Personally, when I'm shitting myself on a wee bit of steep ice concepts such as 'cheating' become quite abstract.
> (In reply to TobyA)
>
> but even unweighted it's still cheating
>
> but even unweighted it's still cheating
Personally, when I'm shitting myself on a wee bit of steep ice concepts such as 'cheating' become quite abstract.
In reply to Simon Wilson:
I've heard this before but remain rather unconvinced. As you watch icefalls develop over the season, these recesses are often formed where two seperate icicles meet together. Although they merge over time I'm not really convinced that they are the strongest point as ultimately the crease is a seam between seperately formed lumps of ice. Personally I look for good smooth large masses of ice to make the placements.
P.S. My comments are based on placing hundreds of ice screws a season on Finnish water ice. Despite four years of regular Scottish climbing I reckon I have placed about the same number of screws in Scotland as I would in a month or so of weekend trips in Finland! Lots of Scottish ice is formed by snow freeze-thaw and hence is probably rather different from water freezing.
> Nobody has yet mentioned a crucial piece of info to placing an ice screw. That is to look for a a recess or concave feature in the ice surface. Not so recessed that you can't screw in the screw fully (e.g. the hanger arm getting obstructed). This will help you start off the screw as well as chipping a slight hole to start it off. You will find it much easier to do this one handed and it will also be a stronger placement.
I've heard this before but remain rather unconvinced. As you watch icefalls develop over the season, these recesses are often formed where two seperate icicles meet together. Although they merge over time I'm not really convinced that they are the strongest point as ultimately the crease is a seam between seperately formed lumps of ice. Personally I look for good smooth large masses of ice to make the placements.
P.S. My comments are based on placing hundreds of ice screws a season on Finnish water ice. Despite four years of regular Scottish climbing I reckon I have placed about the same number of screws in Scotland as I would in a month or so of weekend trips in Finland! Lots of Scottish ice is formed by snow freeze-thaw and hence is probably rather different from water freezing.
In reply to TobyA: i take your point about incut areas of ice but this book . . .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1560447605/qid=1109080943/ref=sr_8...
. . . has a chapter on screw failure documenting tests - the basis of this 'try to avoid convex ice' argument seemed to be that generally the failure was the ice rather than the screw - the screw applied downward pressure on the ice which, if convex, would crack off below the screw allowing the screw to bend along the new surface - does that make sense?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1560447605/qid=1109080943/ref=sr_8...
. . . has a chapter on screw failure documenting tests - the basis of this 'try to avoid convex ice' argument seemed to be that generally the failure was the ice rather than the screw - the screw applied downward pressure on the ice which, if convex, would crack off below the screw allowing the screw to bend along the new surface - does that make sense?
In reply to TobyA:
The ice tools are intended to be extensions of your hands, using them for creating protection takes you beyond that.
> (In reply to JonC) If you are are being half-serious, what possible argument is there for it being cheating?
The ice tools are intended to be extensions of your hands, using them for creating protection takes you beyond that.
In reply to JonC: Nope, that's a crap argument, it doesn't make the climb any easier, just safer. Please try again.
:-P
:-P
In reply to JonC:
nah nonsense . . . at the end of the day you still have to place them, it just means your hand extensions are multi-functional. So if you banged a snarg in and then QD and roped to this is would be okay to avoid using your third hand?
Do you put weights in your bag before heading out for the day?
Sadist!
nah nonsense . . . at the end of the day you still have to place them, it just means your hand extensions are multi-functional. So if you banged a snarg in and then QD and roped to this is would be okay to avoid using your third hand?
Do you put weights in your bag before heading out for the day?
Sadist!
In reply to Eskdale massive:
No, just my partner's.
Hmmm..blizzard in Brum now.
> Do you put weights in your bag before heading out for the day?
No, just my partner's.
Hmmm..blizzard in Brum now.
In reply to vscott: lighweights advice is good, personally i no longer bother to take of wrist loop, but i don't have neat little clipper leashs. YOu can balance on 5 ice if you don't need to place screws in the middle to the tricky bits.
sharp screws make a big difference but aren't essential. A friend led centre post with one screw, carefully placing it in the middle of the pitch.
just remember jeff lowes advice "place each axe as if you're planning to belay of it"
be safe
alasdair
sharp screws make a big difference but aren't essential. A friend led centre post with one screw, carefully placing it in the middle of the pitch.
just remember jeff lowes advice "place each axe as if you're planning to belay of it"
be safe
alasdair
In reply to JonC:
You mean like Ian Clough on the first ascent of point five?
> (In reply to TobyA)
>
> What can I say, I'm a traditionalist.
>
> You youngsters...
>
> What can I say, I'm a traditionalist.
>
> You youngsters...
You mean like Ian Clough on the first ascent of point five?
In reply to TobyA:
This argument has been had before, but does Jeff Lowe not say clipping your axes is considered A0 in his ice world book? I am not saying you are wrong toby but I can see why some people would think it is cheating, even if you do not weight the rope. Compare it to rock climbing, where you can't clip anything before you put the gear in to protect you whilst you put gear in, why should ice be any different?
I think in some ways clipping your axe may make you more tired if you are fumbling about to do it, I would say get very sharp screws and always put them in at waist height as you get much more force.
This argument has been had before, but does Jeff Lowe not say clipping your axes is considered A0 in his ice world book? I am not saying you are wrong toby but I can see why some people would think it is cheating, even if you do not weight the rope. Compare it to rock climbing, where you can't clip anything before you put the gear in to protect you whilst you put gear in, why should ice be any different?
I think in some ways clipping your axe may make you more tired if you are fumbling about to do it, I would say get very sharp screws and always put them in at waist height as you get much more force.
In reply to smithaldo: Please be aware that Im not trying to be confrontational when I say Jeff Lowe didnt make up the rules by which I climb ice. When I climb and am ready to place a screw, I clip to my axe, I carried it up there and I placed it, its not like im going to attach a sling to it and stand in it. Its just a bit of insurance more probably for my peace of mind than anything else.
I have never considered it cheating and never will. I cant see how it is.
I have never considered it cheating and never will. I cant see how it is.
In reply to smithaldo:
He means resting whilst placing a screw. This was very common practice worldwide even 10 years ago. When I first climbed in Finland (season 96/97) lots of climbers still clipped and rested whilst placing gear and thought I was some sort of weird purist for not doing so.
Some climbers flick the rope over the head of their axe whilst placing a screw, do you want to say that is cheating as well? DMM even made smooth grooves in the head of the Predator and Alien for that purpose.
It's a pretty ridiculous argument really. Imagine you put a friend in on a rock climb, then decide it isn't a great placement so put in a nut as well. You then decide the nut is bomber so take the bad friend out for use it higher on th pitch, have you cheated?
> This argument has been had before, but does Jeff Lowe not say clipping your axes is considered A0 in his ice world book?
He means resting whilst placing a screw. This was very common practice worldwide even 10 years ago. When I first climbed in Finland (season 96/97) lots of climbers still clipped and rested whilst placing gear and thought I was some sort of weird purist for not doing so.
Some climbers flick the rope over the head of their axe whilst placing a screw, do you want to say that is cheating as well? DMM even made smooth grooves in the head of the Predator and Alien for that purpose.
It's a pretty ridiculous argument really. Imagine you put a friend in on a rock climb, then decide it isn't a great placement so put in a nut as well. You then decide the nut is bomber so take the bad friend out for use it higher on th pitch, have you cheated?
In reply to Wibble Wibble:
Dear Wibble
And may more.
Norrie
> (In reply to JonC)
> You mean like Ian Clough on the first ascent of point five?
> You mean like Ian Clough on the first ascent of point five?
Dear Wibble
And may more.
Norrie
In reply to TobyA:
Dear Toby
If you it takes any of your weight, then yes.
Norrie
> (In reply to smithaldo)
> It's a pretty ridiculous argument really. Imagine you put a friend in on a rock climb, then decide it isn't a great placement so put in a nut as well. You then decide the nut is bomber so take the bad friend out for use it higher on th pitch, have you cheated?
> It's a pretty ridiculous argument really. Imagine you put a friend in on a rock climb, then decide it isn't a great placement so put in a nut as well. You then decide the nut is bomber so take the bad friend out for use it higher on th pitch, have you cheated?
Dear Toby
If you it takes any of your weight, then yes.
Norrie
In reply to Norrie Muir: Keep with the programme old chap. The whole point is that none of the gear is taking your weight.
In reply to TobyA:
ah, so that's what they were for (light bulb moment) !
What amount the mental assistance?
And are you sure your partner never takes that toprope even a little bit tight... <mostly joking>
> Some climbers flick the rope over the head of their axe whilst placing a screw, do you want to say that is cheating as well? DMM even made smooth grooves in the head of the
Predator and Alien for that purpose.
ah, so that's what they were for (light bulb moment) !
> It's a pretty ridiculous argument really.
What amount the mental assistance?
And are you sure your partner never takes that toprope even a little bit tight... <mostly joking>
In reply to TobyA:
I'd like to see some of the "pure" purists climbing Dover chalk without clipping in.
FWIW reckon JonC is being deliberately provocative
I'd like to see some of the "pure" purists climbing Dover chalk without clipping in.
FWIW reckon JonC is being deliberately provocative
In reply to TobyA:
Dear Toby
So you are the only person who can say "As long as you don't weight the rope its not cheating at all"?
If, one has the bottle one can save time and effort by not bothering with ice screws, afterall the tools and crampons can take your weight.
Norrie
> (In reply to Norrie Muir) Keep with the programme old chap. The whole point is that none of the gear is taking your weight.
Dear Toby
So you are the only person who can say "As long as you don't weight the rope its not cheating at all"?
If, one has the bottle one can save time and effort by not bothering with ice screws, afterall the tools and crampons can take your weight.
Norrie
In reply to Norrie Muir:
But I'm not as brave (or as good looking) as you Norrie! :-P
> If, one has the bottle one can save time and effort by not bothering with ice screws, afterall the tools and crampons can take your weight.
But I'm not as brave (or as good looking) as you Norrie! :-P
In reply to TobyA:
I'm not saying it is cheating but I can see why purists will say it is cheating, in a sense it sort of takes part of the danger out of it, i.e. right, can I hang on one handed and place a screw or do I push on until I can?
I would think routes are graded assuming you do not clip your axes, whether you weight them or not?
Also I don't think your comparison to the nut and freind is entirely the same, as to place the first bit of gear you need to stop, get it off you harness, fiddle it in, take off the quickdraw and clip it. Whereas to clip your axe you just place it, and clip the quickdraw into the bottom, also you don't use the original friend for very bit of ascent you make, whereas you do with your axes.
A very cloudy subject I feel!
I'm not saying it is cheating but I can see why purists will say it is cheating, in a sense it sort of takes part of the danger out of it, i.e. right, can I hang on one handed and place a screw or do I push on until I can?
I would think routes are graded assuming you do not clip your axes, whether you weight them or not?
Also I don't think your comparison to the nut and freind is entirely the same, as to place the first bit of gear you need to stop, get it off you harness, fiddle it in, take off the quickdraw and clip it. Whereas to clip your axe you just place it, and clip the quickdraw into the bottom, also you don't use the original friend for very bit of ascent you make, whereas you do with your axes.
A very cloudy subject I feel!
In reply to JonC:
My mate rested on his axe whilst placing screw on sunday, although he had just fallen off and hit a large ledge from about 4 mtrs up a steep little ice pitch. Fortunately the ledge was big enough for him not to slide off down the 25 mtrs of steep ice I had climbed as the "first pitch", although I was belayed to a stout pine so I think I could have held his fall!
Speaking personally I can't think of a single time in the last four winter seasons when I've rested on an axes to place a screw. I'm a bit 'neo-Fiendish' on my ethics, plus our icefalls are all so little here, you can't use the 'seriousness' argument to cover up a few ethical indescretions!
> And are you sure your partner never takes that toprope even a little bit tight... <mostly joking>
My mate rested on his axe whilst placing screw on sunday, although he had just fallen off and hit a large ledge from about 4 mtrs up a steep little ice pitch. Fortunately the ledge was big enough for him not to slide off down the 25 mtrs of steep ice I had climbed as the "first pitch", although I was belayed to a stout pine so I think I could have held his fall!
Speaking personally I can't think of a single time in the last four winter seasons when I've rested on an axes to place a screw. I'm a bit 'neo-Fiendish' on my ethics, plus our icefalls are all so little here, you can't use the 'seriousness' argument to cover up a few ethical indescretions!
In reply to TobyA:
lol
what's your position on leashes . . ?
> . . . I'm a bit 'neo-Fiendish' on my ethics, . . .
lol
what's your position on leashes . . ?
In reply to smithaldo:
But that would be a silly argument - as silly as saying that it's not pure to use the best ice screws available.
I should add, that I don't remember when I last clipped a QD into a tool before placing a screw as on the short routes I tend to climb its not worth the faff. I just unclip my wrist loop grab a screw, place it, grab a screamer, clip the rope in and go. But if I was on a big rope and pumped and scared I would do it without hesitation and not consider that it has somehow made the route easier via cheating.
> but I can see why purists will say it is cheating, in a sense it sort of takes part of the danger out of it
But that would be a silly argument - as silly as saying that it's not pure to use the best ice screws available.
I should add, that I don't remember when I last clipped a QD into a tool before placing a screw as on the short routes I tend to climb its not worth the faff. I just unclip my wrist loop grab a screw, place it, grab a screamer, clip the rope in and go. But if I was on a big rope and pumped and scared I would do it without hesitation and not consider that it has somehow made the route easier via cheating.
In reply to rich:
You had to ask...
I've admitted defeat. See: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=118132
> what's your position on leashes . . ?
You had to ask...
I've admitted defeat. See: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=118132
In reply to TobyA: If we think about this too much and use the same set of arbitary rules we apply elsewhere in climbing then useing axes and crampons is bloody aiding!
In reply to TobyA: :¬) indeed - it seems like some of these ethical arguments are similar to the 'sports ice climbing' kind of thinking that sees leashes as aid . . .
i've never done the clipping into my tools thing but then i've never lead anything really hard or serious either but it strikes me that it's probably a bit of a skill in itself if it's going to be anything more than psychological protection
i've never done the clipping into my tools thing but then i've never lead anything really hard or serious either but it strikes me that it's probably a bit of a skill in itself if it's going to be anything more than psychological protection
In reply to TobyA:
I don't know if it is a silly argument, I think it is a different (and more difficult to justify) argument to say that using the best screws is cheating, whereas I can sort of see why some people think the original argument is cheating (if only in a small way).
A good point is that if you use erogs there is no issue as you cant clip them anyway as there is no hole, or , as you rightly point out are using clippers or going leashless putting screws in is a lot quicker and negates the need to clip in anyway.
I agree about the big route point as well.
I don't know if it is a silly argument, I think it is a different (and more difficult to justify) argument to say that using the best screws is cheating, whereas I can sort of see why some people think the original argument is cheating (if only in a small way).
A good point is that if you use erogs there is no issue as you cant clip them anyway as there is no hole, or , as you rightly point out are using clippers or going leashless putting screws in is a lot quicker and negates the need to clip in anyway.
I agree about the big route point as well.
In reply to TobyA:
I am being deliberately provocative (to an extent) and don't doubt your personal ethics. I do, however, know some very good winter ice climbers who do consider clipping their axes to be cheating. I persisted with this debate because I was slightly surprised that it isn't more frowned upon.
I am being deliberately provocative (to an extent) and don't doubt your personal ethics. I do, however, know some very good winter ice climbers who do consider clipping their axes to be cheating. I persisted with this debate because I was slightly surprised that it isn't more frowned upon.
In reply to TobyA: However I accept Norrie probably cuts steps with one axe only and uses his dachsteins to grip the ice while attached by hemp to WH Murray
In reply to smithaldo:
Just hook the rope over the handle - dead easy!
> A good point is that if you use ergos there is no issue as you cant clip them anyway as there is no hole,
Just hook the rope over the handle - dead easy!
In reply to Liathac:
Dear Laithac
It was hard enough cutting steps with one axe, nevermind with 2. I climbed with bare hands and put my dashstiens on at the belays. WC Murray was past it when I started climbing, so I never have the doubious pleasure of sharing a rope with him.
When front pointing came in I dispenced with climbing with an axe and used 2 hammers. I still don't understand why technical ice axes are made and why anybody buys them.
And as to the OP question, I used an ice screw once, I thought it a waste of time, so never used one again. Climbing ice where one can get an ice screw in is boring, I prefer thin ice routes.
Norrie
> (In reply to TobyA) However I accept Norrie probably cuts steps with one axe only and uses his dachsteins to grip the ice while attached by hemp to WH Murray
Dear Laithac
It was hard enough cutting steps with one axe, nevermind with 2. I climbed with bare hands and put my dashstiens on at the belays. WC Murray was past it when I started climbing, so I never have the doubious pleasure of sharing a rope with him.
When front pointing came in I dispenced with climbing with an axe and used 2 hammers. I still don't understand why technical ice axes are made and why anybody buys them.
And as to the OP question, I used an ice screw once, I thought it a waste of time, so never used one again. Climbing ice where one can get an ice screw in is boring, I prefer thin ice routes.
Norrie
In reply to NickK:
Hi Norrie,
Do you not find adzes useful for torquing in cracks bigger than those that take a hammer head?
Also, I never know if you're joking about climbing with bare hands. It would be absolutely painful, wouldn't it? Also, don't dachstein's grip better to ice and snow than bare skin?
Hi Norrie,
Do you not find adzes useful for torquing in cracks bigger than those that take a hammer head?
Also, I never know if you're joking about climbing with bare hands. It would be absolutely painful, wouldn't it? Also, don't dachstein's grip better to ice and snow than bare skin?
In reply to Lightweight:
of course he's not joking about climbing with bare hands, he only climbs with clothes on because the scottish tourist board banned him after too many complained about him climbing in the buff! GRRRRRR . . .
I find adzes much better and scooping ice for the cocktails I like to partake in at about 4pm whilst winter climbing in bonnie scotland.
Chin chin
of course he's not joking about climbing with bare hands, he only climbs with clothes on because the scottish tourist board banned him after too many complained about him climbing in the buff! GRRRRRR . . .
I find adzes much better and scooping ice for the cocktails I like to partake in at about 4pm whilst winter climbing in bonnie scotland.
Chin chin
In reply to Lightweight:
I could not grip my ice axe very well when wearing mitts, as I have small hands, and cut steps, so I took my mitts off. That was the reason, nothing macho. I was fortunate enough that I did not get cold hands climbing, no hot aches. I now get very painfull fingers in the cold, but strangely I am OK on the hill.
Norrie
> (In reply to NickK)
> Also, I never know if you're joking about climbing with bare hands. It would be absolutely painful, wouldn't it?
Dear Lightweight
> Also, I never know if you're joking about climbing with bare hands. It would be absolutely painful, wouldn't it?
I could not grip my ice axe very well when wearing mitts, as I have small hands, and cut steps, so I took my mitts off. That was the reason, nothing macho. I was fortunate enough that I did not get cold hands climbing, no hot aches. I now get very painfull fingers in the cold, but strangely I am OK on the hill.
Norrie
In reply to Lightweight:
I forgot to say, I never climb that hard that I need to torque.
Norrie
> Do you not find adzes useful for torquing in cracks bigger than those that take a hammer head?
>
Dear Lightweight
>
I forgot to say, I never climb that hard that I need to torque.
Norrie
Adzes are good for:
Hacking yerself a lyal ledge for yer foot whilst placing ice screws, helps stave off the calf pump, crucial for big footed lanky types such as me.
Hacking belay stances (glorified foot holds) on steep ice if no ledges abound.
Snow bollard type jazz.
General bumbling.
Hacking yerself a lyal ledge for yer foot whilst placing ice screws, helps stave off the calf pump, crucial for big footed lanky types such as me.
Hacking belay stances (glorified foot holds) on steep ice if no ledges abound.
Snow bollard type jazz.
General bumbling.
In reply to NickK: Eat neat chilli powder. Blow on ice until hole appears, place ice screw in hole and turn once. Head butt screw until fully in. Fart for extra propulsion (a follow-through will result in solid salopette legs as it freezes).
Alternatively: Show ice picture of mother-in-law, when meted, place friend or rockcentric.
Alternatively: Show ice picture of mother-in-law, when meted, place friend or rockcentric.
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