UKC

Yesterday arrived at the brick boulder - Burbage south - to see some moron had caked all the footholds in one area with a thick layer of chalk & put up donkey ticks.

1st - the footholds are so obvious anyway
2nd - the boulder is only 12 foot high - why need donkey ticks?
3rd - if a foodhold is to be identified - why not use a small dib of chalk - or is this thin end of the wedge?

The boulder to the left of the brick also had loads of chalkball marks on footholds the size of bivvy ledges - bloddy crazy!

the place is looking totally trashed as it is & people chucking chalk all over the place ain't helping.

So what amount of chalk use is acceptable? & should people using donkey ticks be decapitated?

Cheers

Si

In reply to Simon: Due to my chalk ball being held hostage by a mate and my being too tight to replace it, I have started not using chalk at all and despite having sweaty palms have seen no performance drop. I find it much more advantageous to wipe my hand on my trouser leg to remove sweat.

In reply to Simon:

Last time we went (for my celebrated 2nd ascent of Cicely - or not!) I found that all caked in chalk - it really pissed me off.
I am SURE people don't need to be using so much. In this case it was most definitely not necessary - it made the holds almost impossible to use - I had to use my sparkly purple toothbrush and even then it wasn't a lot better...
You don't need a lot of chalk to dry off clammy hands - you certainly don't need to be caking it on like someone clearly had been!
Grrrr. Rant.

PS - you coming to Font?

In reply to Simon:

What's a donkey tick?

In reply to TN:

whats to do though? I had to spend a time brushing off thick caked chalk off holds that were slippy because there was no friction with the rock.

BTW - fonts probably the worst place for donkey ticks - prepared to be annoyed!

>:@(

In reply to Simon:

Oi ! Whats this doing posted Down the Pub?

In reply to Tiggs: Donkey mark - A big white line pointing at a hold.

In reply to Offwidth:

err - cos it ain't about climbing - its about err chalk!

;0)

In reply to DaveC at Work: Do the people who do this sort of thing have v. poor eyesight?

In reply to Simon:

Sounds like the same doneky who coloured in Stone Farm a few weekends ago. The marks are still there, and won't brush off

In reply to Tiggs: I don't think so, just very small brains.

In reply to Tiggs:

If they have eyesight that bad that they need the holds illuminating for them they have no hope!

:0)

PS whats wrong with pointing at holds these days!?

In reply to Simon: Too right, you were doing an excellent job for me yesterday!

In reply to Simon:

FFS Simon its about poor ethics on bouldering problems and since you are the BMC bouldering access rep surely it should go on Rock Destinations, Rocktalk or BMC posts before the pub?

On tick marks, from a pragmatic point of view, I cant see why people dont tick the rock just above the hold as you are more likely to be able to see it when on the problem and chalking the hold just removes the friction and makes it likely you will slip off. The Brick problems are a bit weird as there are so many variations I can see why ticks might appear if climbers are experimenting with eliminates. However, what you describe is clearly completely unnacceptable and needs challenging more by other boulderers.

In reply to Offwidth:

>>>>what you describe is clearly completely unnacceptable and needs challenging more by other boulderers.



diplomatically or with a chainsaw?

;0)

In reply to Simon:

How long will it be before someone thinks it's a good idea to used different coloured chalk on bits of crags and boulders where a number of routes / problems cross the same ground but use different hold sequences?

It will soon be just like climbing indoors!

I wonder how well most boulderers would cope when faced with a run out pitch on a mountain crag where route finding plays a bigger part than just technical ability.

Donkey ticks ? -- is that because those who employ them lack the basic imagination or intelligence to be able to remember a sequence or where a hold is to be found.

What would they do if faced with a similar problem in a position where a donkey tick is impossible to place.

Blind moves are exactly that -- you've got to solve the problem, not cheat. At least on boulders you've got an opportunity of weighing the moves from various angles before you start -- so why do people feel the need to mark them out first?

Methinks some people need to get a life!

In reply to Simon:

Depends how mean looking they are.

In reply to Simon:
Ok I am gonna play devils advocate here. The use of donkey ticks etc has increased in line with the increase of boulderers, and they can blight the landscape and be unsightly but......but....... They are sometimes bloody useful, not he massive ones you see in font thats just excessive, but when you are going for a precise slap for a blind hold on a move at your limit, knowing exactly where to slap can make the difference between getting it done and falling off again!! As long as they aren't too big and are brushed off (with a soft brush) at the end of your session, what's the big deal?

From an erosion point of view would not the wear and tear on the rock be more pronounced by successive attempts and blind (chalky) slaps when all it might take is a little dab of chalk to focus the mind.

Just an alternative point of view really.

In reply to Duncan Disorderly: we saw some idiots putting donkey lines on the starting holds of a problem in font, with idots like this the only answer is prohibition.

In reply to sloper:
Not decapitation? You're getting more liberal everyday)

In reply to Simon:
Si,
Thinking of coming up a week on Thursday for that area meeting, can I crash at your place in return for free transport too and from the venue?
SOunds like it could be an interesting evening!

In reply to sloper:

Didn't see anyone in the act but I saw lots of chalk starting foot holds. I mean fer fecks sake it's not really necessary is it.

Still not sure what the pof vs chalk deal is out there. There was lots of people using chalk and a smaller amount of people using pof. Bas Cuvier seemed to be quite bad for pof, some of the footholds were very glassy.

I did buy a t-shirt with a picture of a pof bag on the back though just to see if I get any comments when out climbing

In reply to Duncan Disorderly:
all it might take is a little dab of chalk to focus the mind.

Dats what I said U wally!

:0P

In reply to DaveC at Work:


no worries mate- kick offs at 7.15pm

In reply to Offwidth:


Sorry but im only the bouldering acess rep for the Peak.

just imagine how thin one would have to spread ones self!

;0P

Si

In reply to Simon:

I agree about putting this on Rocktalk though - it affects other climbers (even if they ARE just boulderers...<wink>) so would be justified. You're promoting a debate about bouldering 'best practise'....

T

In reply to Simon: i would just go round and nick their chalk bags when they're not looking.

In reply to TN:


How do I go about that now?

ta

Si

In reply to Simon:

I noticed those marks on Sunday too. Disgusting. And in Tom's Cave at Stoney - donkey ticks everywhere. Crikey, how bad do you have to be to need them? Just practice until you can hit the exact same place each time.

Mind you, I was at Stanage on Sat. and someone had chalked all over the crag and boulders by Archangel. It was kids chalk and was in blue and pink. Makes you wonder what the parents do for brains.

In reply to Simon:

Email the site admin: they've moved loads of threads in the past (normally out of Rocktalk but it would be nice to see stuff going the other way). Remember DTP threads get deleted after a while, whereas Rocktalk stays and is searchable for those interested in the problem in the future.

In reply to Simon:.

None. Zero tolerance.


Not necessarily. Lopping off their hands and feet will probably keep them away from the boulders.

This is another one of those things I just don't understand. If you can't do it without these kinds of aids, it's because you're not good enough - you're either not strong enough, don't have the technical ability, or you can't read the problems well enough. Keep practising until you are good enough and do it without the ticks and chalk. (Written as someone who is weak, technically incapable and poor at reading problems in all but the easiest cases. I can cope with my inadequacies)

In reply to tony:

is that no chalk at all or no marking of the rock?



On another point, did anyone ever look at making chalk grey? can't rememeber anything like....

Si

In reply to Simon:
Fair question. No marking of the rock. I need my chalk-bag as my psychological crutch, although I doubt it makes any difference to my ability.

Gray chalk does exist, and there's also eco-chalk, a Metolius thing which does an astonishing job of drying your fingers without leaving a layer of chalk on your fingers.

In reply to Simon:

Too right. See my post of last week..somewhere.. re Widdop.

Yes, sometimes you have to look for the foothold or memorise where it is...what a bind huh? I find it pretty amazing these people get to the cliffs in the first place since they must forget where they are every other step.

Widdop is getting sadly degraded erosion, over brushing etc ditto Bridestones. A use-threshold has been passed and we're into accelerated decline. Increased popularity at the expense of sutainable levels. I'm off to Crag x.

In reply to Yorkspud:

>>>>A use-threshold has been passed and we're into accelerated decline. Increased popularity at the expense of sutainable levels



its a running theme - what was once a warm up/down has become a sport & inevitably the blocs are becoming trashed.

what to do about it? Well do you really care?

if like me you do then attend a BMC meet in your local area. put opinions across & get people talking about the trashing.

its our rock & we should be starting to look after it...

Si

In reply to Simon:

At least they have had a wash this morning!

;0)

In reply to Simon:

Might go back to Burbage Sth and try Cicely again, in that case.... But not right now.

In reply to Simon:

What to do?

Well.. good practice and advice which are included, ironically, in the very things exacerbating the problem - guide books.

Stop writing about bouldering? Difficult. Magasines need to reflect their readerships interests and guidebooks will be written if there's a demand.

Advertising other areas to spread the load just leads to good new areas being trashed too whilst the easily accessible traditional ones continue to degrade.

There is little you can do other than promote good practice and wait for the trend to pass. Personally I walk a bit further and don't choose to advertise potential.

In reply to Duncan Disorderly:

I still reckon that if people are going to use donkey ticks then the best thing is a little strip of finger tape near the hold, then take it with you when you are finished. Re-useable too and saves lots of brushing. Definitely better when the tick is under a roof as the rain never gets to those ticks to get rid of the chalk.

In reply to Yorkspud:


Well thats a point. I have 6 guides now to Burbage South!

If I was asked to write a guide to burbage south boulders now it would just say "Follow the chalk, clean it off & use your own sparingly"

nuff said!

:0)

Si

In reply to tony:


Really where??

Si

In reply to Simon:

I *think* Metolius make it, or at least used to. Honest!